Tesla in Thailand

[Maestro]

On 30/08/2016 at 6:10 PM, bno said:

That is correct wrt. SC network. However not finalised. 

My Tesla order  - Tesla Model ≡ RN10779**** 31.03.16  

 

I got Tesla's email confirming my order for the model 3 on 8 April 2016, the day after my online order, but without a reservation number.

 

Today, I got this in the mail from Tesla, again without a reservation number:

 

 

I wonder if this is the first time that Tesla publicly uses the Chinese number 3 for this model and how it will finally be on the car itself.

[Maestro]

 I see that Tesla filed the trademark application for the image ≡ on March :

 

 

Source: http://insideevs.com/tesla-applies-for-model-☰-trademark/

[Ace of Pop]

Have You seen the second hand price after a year.?.


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[ExpatOilWorker]

On 8/10/2016 at 7:30 PM, mortenaa said:

 

On a 90KWh battery, you can use the 1500 Watt A/C for three days straight, so shouldn't affect your range too much

 

Oh, btw it takes 20 minutes to reach 80%, or about 300km+ range.

 

Charging at 250,000 W? That will require a serious cable and a 1,000+ A breaker at 220 V.

[Naam]

17 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

Charging at 250,000 W? That will require a serious cable and a 1,000+ A breaker at 220 V.

you have to be lenient with people who lack even absolute technical minimum knowledge but are ridiculing themselves in a public forum with absurd claims 

[Maestro]

Here is a summary of Tesla's trademark application for the logo of for the Model 3:

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86946030&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch

 

No mention of the fact that the mark is identical to the representation of the letter E in the Tesla logo and similar to the printed Chinese character for the number 3 ( 三 ). Instead, the description reads "The mark consists of three equal length horizontal stylized lines in the manner of a stylized number 3"

 

The US Patent and Trademark office published the application on 9 August 2016 "for opposition". I wonder how long the period for opposition is and if Ford Motors will oppose also this application.

 

Incidentally, this trademark is also similar to the mathematical symbol  ≡  for equivalence, defined as "identical to".

[mortenaa]

On 9/2/2016 at 8:10 AM, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

Charging at 250,000 W? That will require a serious cable and a 1,000+ A breaker at 220 V.

 

480V/250A. Charges at 120kW max. Possibly upgraded to 150kW in the future. 

[mortenaa]

On 9/2/2016 at 8:32 AM, Naam said:

you have to be lenient with people who lack even absolute technical minimum knowledge but are ridiculing themselves in a public forum with absurd claims 

 

I think most people with basic internet skills can look up the facts for themselves. 20 minutes for a full charge has always been Tesla goal. They are not quite there yet, but superchargers are being upgraded all the time. They claim its technically possible to do it 10 minutes with todays technology. 

 

You travel from supercharger to supercharger, and keep your car between 20-30% and 80% with 20-30 minutes stops every 200 - 250km. If you start with an empty battery, the charge will be slower. The last 20% to reach a fully charged battery is also slower. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU_otU6BuwM
 

[Ahab]

So you buy an electric car that is recharged by electricity from the grid, how exactly do you think that electricity is generated in Thailand. It is not solar or wind  or nuclear so it is likely fossil fuels with all the associated losses with generation, transmission, and conversion to direct current. What exactly is the point of an electric car in Thailand, status?

[OMGImInPattaya]

On 28/8/2559 at 6:05 AM, Pdaz said:

Oil industry by products are still needed to make the plastics and other materials the cars are built from. Not to mention the lubricants.

Has anyone said Big Oil and the petro-chemical industry would disappear...I don't think so. Just that the production and consumption of hydrocarbons to power vehicles can be greatly reduced.

[OMGImInPattaya]

On 28/8/2559 at 3:09 AM, BKKdreaming said:

electric cars would go nowhere in Norway if they had to pay the same taxes as "regular" cars , same as the government rebate in the USA and Germany helps sell unwanted E-cars

 

Norway is lucky to have a good supply of hydroelectric power , most countries make electric power with oil and gas, 

 

and the quoted mileage is best condition , not real life for most people , 

 

I like the idea ,  at 300miles / 500km range ( less 30% reality discount)  it would make sense around here , 

but that would also be with airco or heater when needed , and headlights on for night driving.

 

Hydrogen would be nice also , I drove past the only Hydrogen filling station  in the area yesterday , of course no one was using it , but its a nice for Shell to waste some money on , and its across the street from Toyota Headquarters......

 

Electric will not replace oil and gas ,  it will be another option for those people  where the range and recharging works for them

 

 

 

 

I don't know where this meme that electric cars, and Teslas specifically, use allot of their electric battery consumption running the HVAC (and for that matter the infotainment system) and now this person says the headlights. The batteries in eCars are not the size of those in your mobile phone or notebook computer...they are HUGE. The normal operation of all the cars systems mentioned above has minimal drain on the cars batteries.

[ardokano]

On 23.08.2016 at 2:11 PM, Ace of Pop said:

When they make a car priced from 500K to 1 Mill with a range to run for  6Hrs + with air con keeping it at 25 C, and dont slam up the price of charging it , and queuing for hours like you see gas cars doing now behind Mini Buses and Taxis they may be worth a second glance. When Governments start to see the Motorist benefit from them,and they loose Tax Revenue, they soon make it a no win purchase imo. Did they not do so with Diesel and we rushed to buy a Clonker, now benzines cheaper . We dont all have Norways stupid high income unfortunately.

Tesla S $ 35k ..how  much is  civic?

tesla Make a good price car..another think how much you must pay for Thai goverment and thai dealer..

 

in Thailand allmost all  HIGHT price

 

[Ace of Pop]

I wish Electric Cars well, when they perform to my daily needs at a fair price,but by then i will be in The Great Parking Lot.

[Naam]

3 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

I don't know where this meme that electric cars, and Teslas specifically, use allot of their electric battery consumption running the HVAC (and for that matter the infotainment system) and now this person says the headlights. The batteries in eCars are not the size of those in your mobile phone or notebook computer...they are HUGE. The normal operation of all the cars systems mentioned above has minimal drain on the cars batteries.

 

the drain on the batteries by heating or cooling can be very high under unfavourable ambient conditions and may well impact the radius of an electric car. let's take a look at details:

 

-according to the EPA a 60kWh battery provides 208mls/335km (Tesla) at a speed of 60mls/h = 3hrs 45min operation.

-assuming that the car is operated under harsh tropical conditions to achieve a comfortable tp of 26ºC a minimum cooling capacity of 18,000btu/h is required.

-18,000btu/h = ~2kWh x 3.75hrs = 7.5kWh = net battery capacity available for driving 47.5kWh = 182mls/290km.

 

severe "loss of distance" will happen when heating is required because delta t (temp diffference inside/ambient)  is a multiple of cooling conditions and therefore requires a much higher energy input.
 

[Naam]

15 hours ago, mortenaa said:

You travel from supercharger to supercharger, and keep your car between 20-30% and 80% with 20-30 minutes stops every 200 - 250km.

unfortunately there is no supercharger network (yet) and there won't be any in a decade except in a few specific countries. but anybody who will live then in one these countries and willing to accept the restrictions has my blessing.

[mortenaa]

16 hours ago, Ahab said:

So you buy an electric car that is recharged by electricity from the grid, how exactly do you think that electricity is generated in Thailand. It is not solar or wind  or nuclear so it is likely fossil fuels with all the associated losses with generation, transmission, and conversion to direct current. What exactly is the point of an electric car in Thailand, status?

 

Moving pollution from the big cities to power stations is of course much better for all the people living there.

 

A simple Google search gives me this result:

EVs have several advantages over vehicles with internal combustion engines (ICEs): Energy efficient. Electric vehicles convert about 59%–62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels—conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 17%–21% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.

[mortenaa]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

 

the drain on the batteries by heating or cooling can be very high under unfavourable ambient conditions and may well impact the radius of an electric car. let's take a look at details:

 

-according to the EPA a 60kWh battery provides 208mls/335km (Tesla) at a speed of 60mls/h = 3hrs 45min operation.

-assuming that the car is operated under harsh tropical conditions to achieve a comfortable tp of 26ºC a minimum cooling capacity of 18,000btu/h is required.

-18,000btu/h = ~2kWh x 3.75hrs = 7.5kWh = net battery capacity available for driving 47.5kWh = 182mls/290km.

 

severe "loss of distance" will happen when heating is required because delta t (temp diffference inside/ambient)  is a multiple of cooling conditions and therefore requires a much higher energy input.
 

 

Not sure where u got your BTU calculator from. Its way off! 18,000 BTU/hr is 5.2 kWh. I've triple checked the results. 

BTW, I use 9000 BTU Inverter to cool my bedroom to 20c.. 

 

As far as I know (there isn't a lot of tech specs on it), the Model S uses a inverter A/C that has a cooling capacity of 1500 Wh. The Model S is popular in California, and they have no range issues. 
There is a substantial drop in range when the temperature is dropping to -10c and below. The car has to heat the battery pack as well. 

[OMGImInPattaya]

3 hours ago, Naam said:

 

the drain on the batteries by heating or cooling can be very high under unfavourable ambient conditions and may well impact the radius of an electric car. let's take a look at details:

 

-according to the EPA a 60kWh battery provides 208mls/335km (Tesla) at a speed of 60mls/h = 3hrs 45min operation.

-assuming that the car is operated under harsh tropical conditions to achieve a comfortable tp of 26ºC a minimum cooling capacity of 18,000btu/h is required.

-18,000btu/h = ~2kWh x 3.75hrs = 7.5kWh = net battery capacity available for driving 47.5kWh = 182mls/290km.

 

severe "loss of distance" will happen when heating is required because delta t (temp diffference inside/ambient)  is a multiple of cooling conditions and therefore requires a much higher energy input.
 

New Teslas now come with 90 to 100kWh batteries. Both the batteries and the Supercharger network continously improve. Teslas, and eVehicles may not be the optimal or preferred transport for some people for various reasons but for many others, they are a viable option. They're just another choice in the marketplace.  

[Naam]

1 hour ago, mortenaa said:

I use 9000 BTU Inverter to cool my bedroom to 20c

i expected that comparison. but a car is not a bedroom with thick walls, ceiling and foundations and max 15% glass surface all exposed to ambient temperature and sun radiation.

[mortenaa]

5 minutes ago, Naam said:

i expected that comparison. but a car is not a bedroom with thick walls, ceiling and foundations and max 15% glass surface all exposed to ambient temperature and sun radiation.

 

A cars cabin is not 30 m³ either, so 1500 Wh should be sufficient.. 

Edited September 4, 2016 by mortenaa

[Naam]

1 hour ago, mortenaa said:

the Model S uses a inverter A/C that has a cooling capacity of 1500 Wh

that's a 5,200  btu/h toy and might be acceptable in California.

[Naam]

1 minute ago, mortenaa said:

 

A cars cabin is not 30 m³ either, so 1500 Wh should be sufficient.. 

i am leaving this discussion to experts who use volume as primary factor for heat load calculation. will come back if i find car aircon capacity data.

[Naam]

Quote

In a modern automobile, the A/C system will use around 4 horsepower (3 kW) of the engine's power, thus increasing fuel consumption of the vehicle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_air_conditioning

i rest my case.

[tomwct]

Anybody order one at Tesco?

[Naam]

3 hours ago, mortenaa said:

 

Moving pollution from the big cities to power stations is of course much better for all the people living there.

 

A simple Google search gives me this result:

EVs have several advantages over vehicles with internal combustion engines (ICEs): Energy efficient. Electric vehicles convert about 59%–62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels—conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 17%–21% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.

"simple Google" compares apples with strawberries. a correct comparison would be:

 

"energy efficiency when generating grid power using fossil fuels versus energy derived from fossil fuels to power internal combustion engines".

 

it goes of course without saying that shifting pollution to power plants is in favour of the people inhabiting big cities. but the argument is irrelevant for efficiency comparisons EV vs. ICB. 

Edited September 4, 2016 by Naam

[Pdaz]

20 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

Has anyone said Big Oil and the petro-chemical industry would disappear...I don't think so. Just that the production and consumption of hydrocarbons to power vehicles can be greatly reduced.

 

Never said it had. Was merely pointing out that fuel isn't the only reason we hunt hydrocarbons. I'm in favour of finding an alternative and greener power source. But I feel that there is a lot of marketing hype/propaganda from the greenies. A lot of it is misleading and not relevant when applied in such a broad way. Yes Norway is doing well with plug in cars. Yes they are popular there. But that is because of tax breaks. Yes they are green. But Norway produces a lot of hydroelectric power.  In other countries where coal is burnt to produce power that wouldn't be the case. 

I just think the technology needs to come a long way ( along with the infrastructure ) before they are a viable alternative in every country . Right now they are little more than a rich mans play thing or a "look at me, I'm saving the planet !" device for fat veggie ban-the-bomb types. 

If Govt's could get with the programme, build the infrastructure for charging ( or filling with hydrogen ) build clean power generation facilities ( Nuclear, Hydro, Solar etc ) and then either offer tax breaks, trade-in incentives and then push the auto manufacturers to build real World cost effective cars it could work ( Nissan leaf, Plug in Golf ). But it will take years to trickle down to the poorer countries. Look how long it took to get 2 stroke motors off the streets - None in Norway I guess ? Heaps in India, Bangladesh, Vietnam etc etc..

Not to mention that these same Govt's were telling us to buy a diesel, cos it's green not that long ago..

[Ace of Pop]

Just imagine the Camps at Calais if Battery Boys Won. Saudies Texans all Qing to get into give it away land


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[Bangkok Sausage house]

On 5/9/2559 at 8:56 AM, Pdaz said:

I just think the technology needs to come a long way ( along with the infrastructure ) before they are a viable alternative in every country . Right now they are little more than a rich mans play thing or a "look at me, I'm saving the planet !" device for fat veggie ban-the-bomb types. 

If Govt's could get with the programme, build the infrastructure for charging ( or filling with hydrogen ) build clean power generation facilities ( Nuclear, Hydro, Solar etc ) and then either offer tax breaks, trade-in incentives and then push the auto manufacturers to build real World cost effective cars it could work ( Nissan leaf, Plug in Golf ). But it will take years to trickle down to the poorer countries. Look how long it took to get 2 stroke motors off the streets - None in Norway I guess ? Heaps in India, Bangladesh, Vietnam etc etc..

Not to mention that these same Govt's were telling us to buy a diesel, cos it's green not that long ago..

A bit unfair.  The tech has come a very long way and tech being tech, will continue to do so and rapidly. 

 

It isn't just a rich man's toy.  The model 3 is $35K and the Bolt $37.5 before incentives, same as the average priced car.

 

The rich was the only viable way for Musk to make this work.  Have rich people pay for the development of cars that most car buyers can afford.  It will take many years to trickle to the poorer countries but it is in process.  In 10 or 12 years time, there will be very cheap, basic electric cars that will be used in poorer countries. 

 

Also, the infrastructure is coming.  Beyond Tesla superchargers, there are 100's of 1000's of slower chargers all over 1st world countries.  Every hotel, restaurant etc is installing them as we speak.

[Brownfox]

Current import costs on electric cars in Thailand is 80% import tax, 7% VAT on top and both cost of car and transport cost included. That makes a Tesla roughly double the price. An imported ICE car of the same performance characteristics gets slapped with excise duty of about 180% in addition (0% excise on imported electric cars). That is why a Ferrari or high powered vehicle like a crappy Ford Mustang is so expensive in Thailand. I would much rather pay 6-7m for a Tesla than 4m for a much slower and rubbish Mustang 5 liter in Thailand. By comparison to other imported cars, a Tesla makes much more sense in Thailand once a few Superchargers and a service station makes its way here... what are we waiting for!

[JaseTheBass]

So you buy an electric car that is recharged by electricity from the grid, how exactly do you think that electricity is generated in Thailand. It is not solar or wind  or nuclear so it is likely fossil fuels with all the associated losses with generation, transmission, and conversion to direct current. What exactly is the point of an electric car in Thailand, status?

Quite a bit of hydro in Thailand.