North Korea - A Different World

[Nikkijah]

I've just found an article about North Korea, I've been fascinated by it for ages now, how can a country be like this??

I obviously know the answer, Kim Jong Il is partly responsible - I heard recently that he hides away in his home watching western movies and listening to western music!!

Have any TV members been there before?

Would you want to go??

One story I am reading now is about a journalist - Fareed Zakaria - who visited the country after 3 years of trying to get a visa - he was one of the 'lucky' 1000 foreign visitors granted a visa this year, he mentions how there are traffic police going through the motions of directing traffic although there is no traffic on the streets!! That sounds surreal!

He also mentions how he is guided around the country by 3 minders, making sure his every move is the right move and that he has to hide his cameras to take photos, he also has to use the self-timer on his camera to get shots his minders wouldn't allow, don't they know about self-timers there? OK, that is below the belt, but how can it be like this? I'm astounded that a country can have the capability of making nuclear weapons whilst a huge number of its people are starving

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Nikkijah

[midas]

Nikkijah, I wouldn't even stop to think about it - the answer is definitively YES !

If anyone has even an ounce of curiosity about the world or any interest in travel, North Korea is an absolute must as a destination. Yes I was there exactly one year ago just before the country closes up entirely to tourists during the winter months. Because getting a visa to go there on your own as an individual tourists seemed so difficult and daunting, I decided to go on one of the very few group tours that go there- with Koryo Tours. These guys have undertaken BBC documentary films about North Korea so not only do they know their stuff but more importantly after many years they now have built up tremendous goodwill with the authorities.

The benefit of that is that you will get to see places with them that the ordinary tourist may never get to see.You could never hope to see as much if you tried to go there on your own because you'll be constantly wanting to ask questions about the place ! And as I said even traveling with Koryo Tours - the process of applying for visa will still involve some paperwork ! If you decide to go with a group tour -which normally begins in Beijing, China- you should contact Hannah Barraclough at - [email protected] and their web site is :-http://www.koryogroup.com/tours/index.html

To get a visa you will need to prove you are in full time employment or retired because they would understand if anyone doesn't fall into either these categories ! But most importantly they need to be satisfied you are not a journalist and you will need to sign a declaration that you are not so. If you have an American passport it may be a problem because for most of the time Americans are not allowed to visit ( except on very rare occasions ) and those with Israeli passports are not allowed to go at any time whatsoever.

Other than that to go for it ! I have traveled the world very extensively and for me it was probably one of the most fascinating and interesting countries I've ever been to. Its also really interesting to listen to the other side of the " story " regarding the tensions between North Korea and USA!

North Korean people are really nice. You will enjoy it.

[Scott]

Actually, I'd love to work there--at least for a time, say 6 months to a year. I've found you really need to live in a country to get much a feel for how it really works and how the people think. I don't know if the place would be very interesting after a year.

[Diablo Bob]

Watching a news program a few years ago and they were televising pitures from space.........

At night one of the only totally dark spots in the habited world was North Korea.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Diablo Bob

[midas]

Scott I don't think you understand ! The authorities would never let you

do that i.e. " get much a feel for how it really works and how the people think "!

In any case there wouldn't be that many work opportunities

there -probably teaching English would bethe only one. On

board the plane from Beijing to Pyongyang I was sitting next to an English teacher

from Australia who was even staying in our hotel on a permanent basis -but he was even segregated from us in the hotel. He had had all his meals in a separate dining room !

You cannot just freely interact with North Korean citizens and

absolutely everywhere you go ( including the English teacher ! ) you

constantly have to be with the North Korean government guides.

You cant just decide to wander around outside on your own.

So I'm afraid a slight glimpse inside this fascinating country

is all you can ever hope to get ..............

[Nikkijah]

Scott I don't think you understand ! The authorities would never let you

do that i.e. " get much a feel for how it really works and how the people think "!

In any case there wouldn't be that many work opportunities

there -probably teaching English would bethe only one. On

board the plane from Beijing to Pyongyang I was sitting next to an English teacher

from Australia who was even staying in our hotel on a permanent basis -but he was even segregated from us in the hotel. He had had all his meals in a separate dining room !

You cannot just freely interact with North Korean citizens and

absolutely everywhere you go ( including the English teacher ! ) you

constantly have to be with the North Korean government guides.

You cant just decide to wander around outside on your own.

So I'm afraid a slight glimpse inside this fascinating country

is all you can ever hope to get ..............

midas, you tell me that you would leap at the chance of going back to this fascinating country but then you remind us of how ridiculously controlled it is 'You cannot just freely interact with North Korean citizens and absolutely everywhere you go ( including the English teacher ! ) you constantly have to be with the North Korean government guides.'

This kind of control scares me a little bit, why should they need to follow you around everywhere? Why do they need to be so paranoid?? Does anybody give a toss about what is around the corner on the next barren street?? This country needs to wake up a little bit.

I suppose I would like to go to see for my own eyes, make sure that I wasn't the one being brainwashed by our own media and that the country really was in the state we see in the limited film and photos we get to see

[Donz]

what has this got to do with Thailand?

Delete this thread

[Nikkijah]

what has this got to do with Thailand?

Delete this thread

Donz, there are several threads that don't concern Thailand on this forum, should they all be deleted too?

I thought this was a place for discussion amongst the community here, meaning we can all speak relatively freely about our thoughts and interests.

I knew there would be someone ready to shoot this thread down, I didn't expect it to be you Donz, are you having a bad day? I see 149 people have viewed this thread already so it must interest some of the members on this forum...

Edited November 22, 2006 by Nikkijah

[Ta22]

Witching hunting folk lore and tall tale .

. yawn ..

[bkkmadness]

It's a good thread, if anything it can be moved to the Travel section.

[Donz]

i might have my wedding there. Heard it is a killer of a place.

[Buckwheat]

Watching a news program a few years ago and they were televising pitures from space.........

At night one of the only totally dark spots in the habited world was North Korea.

I was thinking the same thing....here it is

[Nikkijah]

Witching hunting folk lore and tall tale .

. yawn ..

Care to elaborate Ta22?

[toptuan]

I'd like to go, if only to feel what it must have been like to visit the Soviet Union or Eastern Europe at the height of the cold war. I have also done a lot of the reading (some of the same sources as other posters, above), and for the same reasons, the place seems like it would be a time-warp sort of visit.

I know N. Korea is on the "verbotten" list by the US State department. for USA passport holders. Could you visit the country, using your U.S. Passport, but request that they put the visa on a separate page which could be loosely inserted into your passport? They do this for you in Israel, if you have to visit any belligerent arab countries afterwards. Just pull out the "offending" Israeli visa, and you're "clean," for a visit to an Arab country. Wondering if N.Korea does the same? Anyone know?

[Jai Dee]

what has this got to do with Thailand?

Delete this thread

As an expat living and working in Thailand, I don't see anything wrong with asking about other countries on the Forum.

Personally, I'm not that interested in North Korea... but I am in China and Nepal.

The Travel Forum is where these type of threads should be.

/Moved.

[PhilHarries]

Watching a news program a few years ago and they were televising pitures from space.........

At night one of the only totally dark spots in the habited world was North Korea.

Great for astronomers then.

Except that they've probably banned telescopes.

[corkscrew]

I've just found an article about North Korea, I've been fascinated by it for ages now, how can a country be like this??

I obviously know the answer, Kim Jong Il is partly responsible - I heard recently that he hides away in his home watching western movies and listening to western music!!

Have any TV members been there before?

Would you want to go??

One story I am reading now is about a journalist - Fareed Zakaria - who visited the country after 3 years of trying to get a visa - he was one of the 'lucky' 1000 foreign visitors granted a visa this year, he mentions how there are traffic police going through the motions of directing traffic although there is no traffic on the streets!! That sounds surreal!

He also mentions how he is guided around the country by 3 minders, making sure his every move is the right move and that he has to hide his cameras to take photos, he also has to use the self-timer on his camera to get shots his minders wouldn't allow, don't they know about self-timers there? OK, that is below the belt, but how can it be like this? I'm astounded that a country can have the capability of making nuclear weapons whilst a huge number of its people are starving

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Nikkijah

I visited North Korea twice; the first time was before Kim Il Sung died. The second time after his son Kim Jung Il came to power.

My former girl friend and I got our visa permissions from a NK trading compamy in Macau. We then went to the NK embassy in Beijing for the actual visas. We flew to Pyongyang to start our 2 week visit.

It is a strange country. The only motor cars we saw were official Mercedes cars. Our guide went with the two of us everywhere we went. We were even escorted to our hotel room at night.

The second time I went I took my children. My daughter, Annie, took these photos while we were there.

http://www.corkscrew-balloon.com/annie/korea/index.html

We visited the DMZ (it was funny looking south as the US soldiers took photos of us from the other side). Also, interesting was a visit to the Pueblo (captured US ship)

When we went there the average NK did not know that man had walked on the moon. It was so strange. We wanted to buy one of those little pins of Kim Il Sung but our guide said we could not as we "did not have Kim in our heart".

The underground is just like the one in Moscow but our guide claimed that the Soviets did not help them build it.

Would I go again. Yes.

[Nikkijah]

Beautiful photos corkscrew!, it''s good to see you were allowed to take them, did your guides stop you from taking certain pictures or were they quite lenient?

[Maigo6]

My daughter, Annie, took these photos while we were there.

http://www.corkscrew-balloon.com/annie/korea/index.html

Those are great photos.

I saw a programme on discovery channel about the Mass Games in North Korea, superb spectacle.

I would also like to go there someday.

[argonaut942]

I'm in the process of planning a journey through North Korea in September 2007. I guess I'll be doing it with Koryo Tours. I checked their website and exchanged some emails. They appear to be very professional. I want to be there for the mass games. The main downside is the price of the tours. Koryo Tours ask for roughly 1400 Euros for a guided 5-day round trip. Anyway, I'm pretty sure I'll go for it. I'm just incredibly curious about that place.

[corkscrew]

Beautiful photos corkscrew!, it''s good to see you were allowed to take them, did your guides stop you from taking certain pictures or were they quite lenient?

Our guide, Kim (seems like everybody in NK is named Kim), was very good. The only place where we could not take photos was at the Pyongyang airport.

Everywhere we went we were watched. Once while rowing a little boat in a lake another boat pulled up and the passenger addressed me by my name.

One morning...I think it was in Wonsan I got up early for a run. About 20 minutes later my guide caught up to me on a motorcycle. He said it was dangerous for me to be alone but I think he was just afraid for himself....letting me out of his sight.

Kim Jung Il has his own movie studio outside of Pyongyang. We briefly visited it. It looked like a set from a cowboy movie.

The first time we visited Pyongyang I was talking with some Soviet embassy workers who were drinking in our hotel bar. Only recently had the USSR recognized South Korea and they were disappointed that they had to stay in the north while a new Soviet team was being sent south.

During our 4 weeks in North Korea.....spread over two trips...we never had personal contact with any real North Koreans. For starters few speak English ....but, as we were always being 'guided' the only NKs we met were officials or officials pretending to be someone else.

All the NK radios are pre-tuned to NK stations.

[corkscrew]

My daughter, Annie, took these photos while we were there.

http://www.corkscrew-balloon.com/annie/korea/index.html

Those are great photos.

I saw a programme on discovery channel about the Mass Games in North Korea, superb spectacle.

I would also like to go there someday.

Our second trip to NK was in connection with the WWF matches. It was so odd to see World Wrestling Federation matches in Pyongyang. The local NKs probably thought these foreigners and their slapstick fake wrestling were crazy. I think that is why Pyongyang brought it to NK.

[Nikkijah]

Corkscrew, I read that everyone you meet is an official disguised as a citizen, do you think this explains why the person in the boat knew your name? Perhaps this is why the price argonaut942 mentioned is so high1,400 Euros) - you're actually paying for all of these people to be orchestrated around you and your holiday!?

[corkscrew]

I'm in the process of planning a journey through North Korea in September 2007. I guess I'll be doing it with Koryo Tours. I checked their website and exchanged some emails. They appear to be very professional. I want to be there for the mass games. The main downside is the price of the tours. Koryo Tours ask for roughly 1400 Euros for a guided 5-day round trip. Anyway, I'm pretty sure I'll go for it. I'm just incredibly curious about that place.

See if you can stay at the Koryo hotel in the center of Pyongyang. That is where I stayed on my first trip to NK. It is in the center of things. The other hotels that tour companies use are not so convenient and you have to be bussed everywhere.

[corkscrew]

Corkscrew, I read that everyone you meet is an official disguised as a citizen, do you think this explains why the person in the boat knew your name? Perhaps this is why the price argonaut942 mentioned is so high1,400 Euros) - you're actually paying for all of these people to be orchestrated around you and your holiday!?

Yes! You are absolutely right. Everyone of those 'people' that we met...or even sat next to in a restaurant or theatre were probably 'officials'. No one seemed surprised by our presence. The only time I am sure that I got close to real NKs was when I took that unexpected run in the early morning....I came across a bunch of people building a fence and when they saw me it was like seeing a ghost.

[Nikkijah]

Corkscrew, I read that everyone you meet is an official disguised as a citizen, do you think this explains why the person in the boat knew your name? Perhaps this is why the price argonaut942 mentioned is so high1,400 Euros) - you're actually paying for all of these people to be orchestrated around you and your holiday!?

Yes! You are absolutely right. Everyone of those 'people' that we met...or even sat next to in a restaurant or theatre were probably 'officials'. No one seemed surprised by our presence. The only time I am sure that I got close to real NKs was when I took that unexpected run in the early morning....I came across a bunch of people building a fence and when they saw me it was like seeing a ghost.

It all seems so surreal!! It actually sounds like a scene from an old movie - The prisoner...

[corkscrew]

Corkscrew, I read that everyone you meet is an official disguised as a citizen, do you think this explains why the person in the boat knew your name? Perhaps this is why the price argonaut942 mentioned is so high1,400 Euros) - you're actually paying for all of these people to be orchestrated around you and your holiday!?

Yes! You are absolutely right. Everyone of those 'people' that we met...or even sat next to in a restaurant or theatre were probably 'officials'. No one seemed surprised by our presence. The only time I am sure that I got close to real NKs was when I took that unexpected run in the early morning....I came across a bunch of people building a fence and when they saw me it was like seeing a ghost.

It all seems so surreal!! It actually sounds like a scene from an old movie - The prisoner...

Yes, if you go there you will come away thinking 'what's it all about?'

[midas]

Scott I don't think you understand ! The authorities would never let you

do that i.e. " get much a feel for how it really works and how the people think "!

In any case there wouldn't be that many work opportunities

there -probably teaching English would bethe only one. On

board the plane from Beijing to Pyongyang I was sitting next to an English teacher

from Australia who was even staying in our hotel on a permanent basis -but he was even segregated from us in the hotel. He had had all his meals in a separate dining room !

You cannot just freely interact with North Korean citizens and

absolutely everywhere you go ( including the English teacher ! ) you

constantly have to be with the North Korean government guides.

You cant just decide to wander around outside on your own.

So I'm afraid a slight glimpse inside this fascinating country

is all you can ever hope to get ..............

midas, you tell me that you would leap at the chance of going back to this fascinating country but then you remind us of how ridiculously controlled it is 'You cannot just freely interact with North Korean citizens and absolutely everywhere you go ( including the English teacher ! ) you constantly have to be with the North Korean government guides.'

This kind of control scares me a little bit, why should they need to follow you around everywhere? Why do they need to be so paranoid?? Does anybody give a toss about what is around the corner on the next barren street?? This country needs to wake up a little bit.

I suppose I would like to go to see for my own eyes, make sure that I wasn't the one being brainwashed by our own media and that the country really was in the state we see in the limited film and photos we get to see

Nikkijah if you decide to go you must go with an open mind.......when you are there you will learn

about " the Dear Leader " and his " Juche Idea " which is what North Korean communism is based on. Of course you can be cynical and disagree with all of it ( but of course never ever criticise any of it particularly to your guides ! ) - or you may even agree......but ultimately the North Koreans firmly believe THEY have the right answer to proper living - well at least those who don't keep trying to escape. Most North Koreans who strictly abide by these principles believe they are actually superior to the rest of the world ! This is the reason the authorities want to keep them segregated from us. I must say they are very well-educated and obviously extremely well disciplined.

In other words they don't want us to contaminate the thought process of their citizens...........

No matter what you think about all this - you still come away realizing the Americans have got a lot to answer for. There are lots of of paradoxes and contradictions but I'm sure you'll come away from North Korea having had an experience that will stay with you long time. Most other travelers say exactly the same thing.

[corkscrew]

Scott I don't think you understand ! The authorities would never let you

do that i.e. " get much a feel for how it really works and how the people think "!

In any case there wouldn't be that many work opportunities

there -probably teaching English would bethe only one. On

board the plane from Beijing to Pyongyang I was sitting next to an English teacher

from Australia who was even staying in our hotel on a permanent basis -but he was even segregated from us in the hotel. He had had all his meals in a separate dining room !

You cannot just freely interact with North Korean citizens and

absolutely everywhere you go ( including the English teacher ! ) you

constantly have to be with the North Korean government guides.

You cant just decide to wander around outside on your own.

So I'm afraid a slight glimpse inside this fascinating country

is all you can ever hope to get ..............

midas, you tell me that you would leap at the chance of going back to this fascinating country but then you remind us of how ridiculously controlled it is 'You cannot just freely interact with North Korean citizens and absolutely everywhere you go ( including the English teacher ! ) you constantly have to be with the North Korean government guides.'

This kind of control scares me a little bit, why should they need to follow you around everywhere? Why do they need to be so paranoid?? Does anybody give a toss about what is around the corner on the next barren street?? This country needs to wake up a little bit.

I suppose I would like to go to see for my own eyes, make sure that I wasn't the one being brainwashed by our own media and that the country really was in the state we see in the limited film and photos we get to see

Nikkijah if you decide to go you must go with an open mind.......when you are there you will learn

about " the Dear Leader " and his " Juche Idea " which is what North Korean communism is based on. Of course you can be cynical and disagree with all of it ( but of course never ever criticise any of it particularly to your guides ! ) - or you may even agree......but ultimately the North Koreans firmly believe THEY have the right answer to proper living - well at least those who don't keep trying to escape. Most North Koreans who strictly abide by these principles believe they are actually superior to the rest of the world ! This is the reason the authorities want to keep them segregated from us. I must say they are very well-educated and obviously extremely well disciplined.

In other words they don't want us to contaminate the thought process of their citizens...........

No matter what you think about all this - you still come away realizing the Americans have got a lot to answer for. There are lots of of paradoxes and contradictions but I'm sure you'll come away from North Korea having had an experience that will stay with you long time. Most other travelers say exactly the same thing.

Yes, the place haunts your mind. It is like an evil playground built for a wannabe god.

[Nikkijah]

Scott I don't think you understand ! The authorities would never let you

do that i.e. " get much a feel for how it really works and how the people think "!

In any case there wouldn't be that many work opportunities

there -probably teaching English would bethe only one. On

board the plane from Beijing to Pyongyang I was sitting next to an English teacher

from Australia who was even staying in our hotel on a permanent basis -but he was even segregated from us in the hotel. He had had all his meals in a separate dining room !

You cannot just freely interact with North Korean citizens and

absolutely everywhere you go ( including the English teacher ! ) you

constantly have to be with the North Korean government guides.

You cant just decide to wander around outside on your own.

So I'm afraid a slight glimpse inside this fascinating country

is all you can ever hope to get ..............

midas, you tell me that you would leap at the chance of going back to this fascinating country but then you remind us of how ridiculously controlled it is 'You cannot just freely interact with North Korean citizens and absolutely everywhere you go ( including the English teacher ! ) you constantly have to be with the North Korean government guides.'

This kind of control scares me a little bit, why should they need to follow you around everywhere? Why do they need to be so paranoid?? Does anybody give a toss about what is around the corner on the next barren street?? This country needs to wake up a little bit.

I suppose I would like to go to see for my own eyes, make sure that I wasn't the one being brainwashed by our own media and that the country really was in the state we see in the limited film and photos we get to see

Nikkijah if you decide to go you must go with an open mind.......when you are there you will learn

about " the Dear Leader " and his " Juche Idea " which is what North Korean communism is based on. Of course you can be cynical and disagree with all of it ( but of course never ever criticise any of it particularly to your guides ! ) - or you may even agree......but ultimately the North Koreans firmly believe THEY have the right answer to proper living - well at least those who don't keep trying to escape. Most North Koreans who strictly abide by these principles believe they are actually superior to the rest of the world ! This is the reason the authorities want to keep them segregated from us. I must say they are very well-educated and obviously extremely well disciplined.

In other words they don't want us to contaminate the thought process of their citizens...........

No matter what you think about all this - you still come away realizing the Americans have got a lot to answer for. There are lots of of paradoxes and contradictions but I'm sure you'll come away from North Korea having had an experience that will stay with you long time. Most other travelers say exactly the same thing.

Maybe the people are superior, but I doubt it, lots of hunger and starvation and poverty - don't those who think they're superior know about this or don't they want to hear about it?

Another question, are the well educated people the ones who try to escape? And why, if they think they are superior, do they want to escape??

Is there something I'm missing from all this?? It's easy to think 'silly Kim' or silly people' but is there something that we are all missing about North Korea?

No matter what you think about all this - you still come away realizing the Americans have got a lot to answer for

What do you mean by this? Do you mean the USA has contaminated our minds?