Multiple Israeli air strikes hit Gaza Strip after Palestinian rocket attack

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Pakboong said:

It is too bad that we just can't disagree and let it go at that. I harbor no anger here with anyone with whom I disagree. I am as certain of my statements as you are of yours. Picking out a few words in order to discredit the poster and his point is a common tactic which I do not have a reason to do. I do however, know why it is done.

 

I did not "pick a few words" but addressed your conspiracy theory posts. For the umpteenth time, at that.

Discrediting the content of said posts comes with the territory of forum debate. Addressing the author is perhaps relevant when repetitive baseless notions are floated, and when these center on the same theme. All the more so when dubious claims to authority are made.

 

" I do however, know why it is done. "

 

Are we in for a new chapter of the ongoing conspiracy theory?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Galactus said:

 

thanks for the answer. it is not answered properly but you came close. Please look at the overall picture not only Gaza Strip or whatever.

dont forget, you said you do whatever necessary and you can even kill them to protect your land, family and future.

and i am sure that includes firing shots at those criminals when you see them coming with guns even if they are not in your land or firing shots to the camp of the criminals established on the land stolen from you. 

so if you shoot at them while they are coming or while they are camped on your land, do you count as terrorist? or just as someone trying to defend his land, family and future? according to your answer, you count as someone just trying to protect your land, family and future, same as Palestinians.

 

lets apply this to the bloody Palestinian - Israel conflict:

as long as Israel is in Palestinian land, constantly occupying land illegally and inserting jewish settlers on others' land, they have the right to send a rocket to an Israeli town hundreds of meters away from the border and most probably, that israeli town is founded on the land stolen from Palestinians. lets say they do whatever necessary like you will do at such situation, this might include firing a rocket to prevent some attacks or to instill fear to criminals.

same as you fire some shots to the criminals. 

 

so how come Palestinians are terrorists and Israelis lawful? c'mon! it is actually vice versa.

 

" they have the right to send a rocket to an Israeli town "

 

No, they do not. The UN does not see it your way. Even the PA doesn't see it your way. Indiscriminate fire against civilian concentrations is not usually an acceptable action. And before the bell goes off - the Israeli response did not target civilians, and it was not indiscriminate. If one harps about Israel not paying heed to international norms, UN resolutions etc., perhaps this ought to be applied for the Palestinian side as well.

 

 

 

 

 

[GeorgesAbitbol]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

" they have the right to send a rocket to an Israeli town "

 

No, they do not. The UN does not see it your way. Even the PA doesn't see it your way. Indiscriminate fire against civilian concentrations is not usually an acceptable action. And before the bell goes off - the Israeli response did not target civilians, and it was not indiscriminate. If one harps about Israel not paying heed to international norms, UN resolutions etc., perhaps this ought to be applied for the Palestinian side as well.

 

 

 

 

 

So you mean Israel is waiting for the palestinian to follow the UN resolutions on its side? Strange for a country which boasts itself to be a beacon f democracy and human rights in the middle-east... I see you don't answer my post with the many links about the actual events in Gaza strips with razed houses, land stealing...etc...Can you please explain me why?

[Morch]

59 minutes ago, GeorgesAbitbol said:

Well for someone quite aware you seem to forget my previous quote : iIsrael destroyed since january 2016, $3 millions of infrastructures paid by UE, 

Settlements :

August 22  :  Israeli authorities on Monday confirmed that they have begun the process of expanding an Israeli settlement in Hebron, a West Bank city that has been the focus of nearly a year of violence. http://www.heraldonline.com/news/nation-world/world/article97095527.html

 

House razing :  In the Aug. 4 report, OCHA cited 684 buildings as having been demolished so far this year in the West Bank,
 http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/08/israel-destroys-palestinian-houses-west-bank-annexation.html#ixzz4IEMRd3qN

JERUSALEM, Aug. 12 (Xinhua) -- Israel has demolished 20 Palestinian homes in the West Bank since the beginning of August

 

Maybe you should stop being informed by Israeli news only 

 

 

 

I actually make it a point to follow multiple sources, appearing in few languages.

 

Read my post again, perhaps slower this time.

 

All these things occur in the West Bank. All of your links refer to the West Bank.

However, there are no rockets launched at Israel from the West Bank.

 

There are no illegal settlements in the Gaza Strip, there are no house demolitions.

The rocket launching is exclusively a Gaza Strip thing.

 

I am not in any way denying the wrongs of the Israeli occupation. What I'm getting at is that this attack was not necessarily directly related to the things re-hashed. If that was so, there would have been many more such attacks carried out by Hamas (for example). This bears the hallmark of another, smaller outfit, defying Hamas wishes, and playing the hard-case card.

[Galactus]

17 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

" they have the right to send a rocket to an Israeli town "

 

No, they do not. The UN does not see it your way. Even the PA doesn't see it your way. Indiscriminate fire against civilian concentrations is not usually an acceptable action. And before the bell goes off - the Israeli response did not target civilians, and it was not indiscriminate. If one harps about Israel not paying heed to international norms, UN resolutions etc., perhaps this ought to be applied for the Palestinian side as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

UN never sees things in a fair way. It sees things from the eyes of US which backs Israel from the beginning.

civilian concentrations for you are criminal concentrations sitting on stolen Palestinian land for others morch.

of course your reasoning is based on like 'those land belong to Israel' but in fact most of land occupied by Israel does not belong to Israel as you know. UN and you and most Israelis never see that of course.

so, if i see criminals settled on my stolen land, i might do something about it. and that is exactly what Palestinians are doing.

 

 

[GeorgesAbitbol]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I actually make it a point to follow multiple sources, appearing in few languages.

 

Read my post again, perhaps slower this time.

 

All these things occur in the West Bank. All of your links refer to the West Bank.

However, there are no rockets launched at Israel from the West Bank.

 

There are no illegal settlements in the Gaza Strip, there are no house demolitions.

The rocket launching is exclusively a Gaza Strip thing.

 

I am not in any way denying the wrongs of the Israeli occupation. What I'm getting at is that this attack was not necessarily directly related to the things re-hashed. If that was so, there would have been many more such attacks carried out by Hamas (for example). This bears the hallmark of another, smaller outfit, defying Hamas wishes, and playing the hard-case card.

All right, fair enough, even if while reading the links i sent we can see it englobes as well part of gaza strip and Jerusalem but not for settlements in Gaza, you're right! my bad.

 

I think your judgment of the attack is quite relevent, but this is only a part of the main problem. 

On my sideI do not defend Hamas or Palestinian for all their actions, however you have to understand also that the so called "pro-palestinian" think a change in the israel politics from a far right wing government (come on Lieberman, seriously...) to a moderate government, or even a left government (yeah yeah I already hear some say "why not communists") would help greatly to move forward.

The difference is: Israel is a democracy, citizen have the power to change this by electing a different government, which is obviously not really the case in palestine.That's also why I am for the BDS thing and so "virulent" for those who see Palestinian, and arabs in general, as the sole responsibles for the current situation...

[SgtRock]

1 hour ago, GeorgesAbitbol said:

It is well known the military education and impartiality level is close to Mariana Trench sea bed...Sergeant

 

Quote

August 22  :  Israeli authorities on Monday confirmed that they have begun the process of expanding an Israeli settlement in Hebron, a West Bank city that has been the focus of nearly a year of violence. http://www.heraldonline.com/news/nation-world/world/article97095527.html

 

House razing :  In the Aug. 4 report, OCHA cited 684 buildings as having been demolished so far this year in the West Bank,
 http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/08/israel-destroys-palestinian-houses-west-bank-annexation.html#ixzz4IEMRd3qN

JERUSALEM, Aug. 12 (Xinhua) -- Israel has demolished 20 Palestinian homes in the West Bank since the beginning of August

 

When you have worked out the difference between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, you might then be in a position to judge the education of others.

 

Until that time it might be wise to heed the words of Confucius.

 

Quote

It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

 

Edited August 24, 2016 by SgtRock

[Morch]

44 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Not sure what you're saying here.

 

You say the rockets weren't launched by Hamas, but the response was the Israeli "standard fare" (that you then went on to justify as "while trying to avoid casualties and conflagration").  Not sure why you had to add the 'justification'?

 

Ultimately, until the leaders on both sides start both 'talking and walking' peace and a fair deal - and the population can see that this is the case - then nothing will change and the 'war' will continue.

 

I'll try to explain.

 

RuamRudy asserted that the attack and the response represent a vested interest by leadership on both sides to keep the conflict going. While the last bit might carry some weight as a general statement (and again, this could be expanded upon, but probably off-topic), the current attack was not representing anything of the sort.

 

The rocket was not launched by Hamas, but by another organization, which basically challenged Hamas's authority. Claiming that the attack represents Palestinian leadership interests is therefore off mark. If it was in Hamas's interest to do so, rockets would have been launched at Israel previously and at greater number. Not even getting into Fatah's point of view, which does not support a renewed confrontation.

 

As for the Israeli side: Israel's policy is to hold Hamas responsible for whatever happens in the Gaza Strip. The post-2014 unofficial agreement charges Hamas with preventing rocket attacks, even when those are carried out by other organizations and outfits. Hence, the standard fare refers to Israel sending Hamas a message to get their act together. It usually amounts to attacking Hamas facilities and installations. Generally, this works better with regard to civilian casualties.

 

The Israeli responses are not aimed at hitting the Hamas too hard or causing unnecessary civilian casualties, as no one is interested in a new round of full blown hostilities. Well....no one apart from extremists on both sides. The current Israeli response was somewhat different in scope, compared with previous instances. A couple of reasons suggesting themselves are the new Israeli Minister of Defense taking a sterner position on such violations (and needing to cover the gap between his pre-appointment rhetoric and actual conduct in office), and Israel taking the chance to roll back some of the Hamas military infrastructure build up along the border (fortified posts and such).

 

As for peace and negotiations...this comes at a time where delegates from both sides conduct preparatory meetings for a possible get together in Egypt.

[ddavidovsky]

Has it occurred to anyone that Israel is intentionally provoking rocket attacks from Gaza because it then allows them to turn the screw tighter, take the moral high ground, and drag out the conflict longer, under cover of which they are stealthily occupying the West Bank, all the while gradually eroding the possibility of a two-state solution? The damage caused by the rockets is a small price to pay for that advantage.

[Morch]

42 minutes ago, GeorgesAbitbol said:

So you mean Israel is waiting for the palestinian to follow the UN resolutions on its side? Strange for a country which boasts itself to be a beacon f democracy and human rights in the middle-east... I see you don't answer my post with the many links about the actual events in Gaza strips with razed houses, land stealing...etc...Can you please explain me why?

 

No, I did not mean anything of the sort. Takes some imagination to read that in my post.

 

I simply pointed out that the Palestinians do not, in fact, have a right to launch rockets at Israeli civilians. Ought to be easy enough for posters upholding UN resolutions and such to embrace this. There was nothing said about it giving Israel carte blanche to ignore the same.

[Morch]

31 minutes ago, Galactus said:

 

UN never sees things in a fair way. It sees things from the eyes of US which backs Israel from the beginning.

civilian concentrations for you are criminal concentrations sitting on stolen Palestinian land for others morch.

of course your reasoning is based on like 'those land belong to Israel' but in fact most of land occupied by Israel does not belong to Israel as you know. UN and you and most Israelis never see that of course.

so, if i see criminals settled on my stolen land, i might do something about it. and that is exactly what Palestinians are doing.

 

 

 

The UNGA regularly passes resolutions condemning Israel.

The UNHCR takes this to a whole new level, concentrating unparalleled effort in passing resolutions condemning Israel.

The UNSC resolutions represent a compromise between veto-power members, as opposed to the UNGA. The same applies for other conflicts. May want to read up on the Negroponte Doctrine.

 

So no, the UN is not generally in favor of Israel.

 

The point is one cannot whine about Israel not following international standards, United Nations resolutions and whatnot, yet hold that the Palestinians are exempt from the same.

 

As far as I am aware, there is no international or legal support for the point of view that condones Palestinian rocket fire on Israeli towns. You're quite out there with this nonsense statement.

 

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The UNGA regularly passes resolutions condemning Israel.

The UNHCR takes this to a whole new level, concentrating unparalleled effort in passing resolutions condemning Israel.

The UNSC resolutions represent a compromise between veto-power members, as opposed to the UNGA. The same applies for other conflicts. May want to read up on the Negroponte Doctrine.

 

So no, the UN is not generally in favor of Israel.

 

The point is one cannot whine about Israel not following international standards, United Nations resolutions and whatnot, yet hold that the Palestinians are exempt from the same.

 

As far as I am aware, there is no international or legal support for the point of view that condones Palestinian rocket fire on Israeli towns. You're quite out there with this nonsense statement.

 

 

 

I wish I could remember who told me you were an unbiased poster in these discussions .

[Thorgal]

40 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I actually make it a point to follow multiple sources, appearing in few languages.

 

Read my post again, perhaps slower this time.

 

All these things occur in the West Bank. All of your links refer to the West Bank.

However, there are no rockets launched at Israel from the West Bank.

 

There are no illegal settlements in the Gaza Strip, there are no house demolitions.

The rocket launching is exclusively a Gaza Strip thing.

 

I am not in any way denying the wrongs of the Israeli occupation. What I'm getting at is that this attack was not necessarily directly related to the things re-hashed. If that was so, there would have been many more such attacks carried out by Hamas (for example). This bears the hallmark of another, smaller outfit, defying Hamas wishes, and playing the hard-case card.

 

Latest land grab from the Gaza strip dates back after the Israeli summer 2014 offensive. All civil infrastructures have then been heavily bombed by the IAF. Sheyiaya town bombing till dust is just one example of it. Furthermore 44%of the land has been taken as a 3km safe zone, where it's forbidden to live.

 

This just to explain that the demolition and land grab actually never stopped.

 

Many Palestinians joined the Lebanese forces during the last decades. Rocket launching from Lebanon and West Bank into Israeli territory must have been reported to global news agencies.

 

Furthermore, it's known that Gaza is still under siege, read occupation. 

 

 

[Galactus]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The UNGA regularly passes resolutions condemning Israel.

The UNHCR takes this to a whole new level, concentrating unparalleled effort in passing resolutions condemning Israel.

The UNSC resolutions represent a compromise between veto-power members, as opposed to the UNGA. The same applies for other conflicts. May want to read up on the Negroponte Doctrine.

 

So no, the UN is not generally in favor of Israel.

 

The point is one cannot whine about Israel not following international standards, United Nations resolutions and whatnot, yet hold that the Palestinians are exempt from the same.

 

As far as I am aware, there is no international or legal support for the point of view that condones Palestinian rocket fire on Israeli towns. You're quite out there with this nonsense statement.

 

 

 

 

US is in UN security council and they have the right to veto or accept whatever they want. Without US saying yes, peace will never come there.

the rest of UN just talks. do some reports blah blah blah and they are all forgotten in time and nothign changes.

 

and sorry but i am not a fan of Palestinian rockets flying to Israel. of course it should be good if no attacks from both sides and if Israel stops its aggressive expansionist policies of occupying lands and changing demographics of the area.

but in my moral point of view including many, they just attack some settlers sitting on stolen land belong to Palestinians possibly trying poorly to drive them off or just instill fear on them.

 

 

[Morch]

50 minutes ago, GeorgesAbitbol said:

All right, fair enough, even if while reading the links i sent we can see it englobes as well part of gaza strip and Jerusalem but not for settlements in Gaza, you're right! my bad.

 

I think your judgment of the attack is quite relevent, but this is only a part of the main problem. 

On my sideI do not defend Hamas or Palestinian for all their actions, however you have to understand also that the so called "pro-palestinian" think a change in the israel politics from a far right wing government (come on Lieberman, seriously...) to a moderate government, or even a left government (yeah yeah I already hear some say "why not communists") would help greatly to move forward.

The difference is: Israel is a democracy, citizen have the power to change this by electing a different government, which is obviously not really the case in palestine.That's also why I am for the BDS thing and so "virulent" for those who see Palestinian, and arabs in general, as the sole responsibles for the current situation...

 

Of course the OP is just part of the conflict. But it is impossible to load every discussion of every incident with justifications running the whole gamut of the bad blood between the sides. If the recent rocket attack was indeed more of an internal Palestinian power play, then it ought to be regarded somewhat differently.

 

Israel's shift to the right is neither a new phenomenon nor entirely related to the conflict with the Palestinians. The same goes for the Palestinian side, where Fatah's leadership is far from assured (if and when...). There is no realistic scenario in which this changes much in both societies. At least not in the near future.

 

I'm not in the habit of vilifying Palestinian, Arabs or Muslims. As societies, well...they have their issues. When it comes to responsibility....it always takes two to tango.

 

EDIT: I don't like the new forum...:-(

 

Edited August 24, 2016 by Morch

[Morch]

36 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Has it occurred to anyone that Israel is intentionally provoking rocket attacks from Gaza because it then allows them to turn the screw tighter, take the moral high ground, and drag out the conflict longer, under cover of which they are stealthily occupying the West Bank, all the while gradually eroding the possibility of a two-state solution? The damage caused by the rockets is a small price to pay for that advantage.

 

You ought to PM Pakboong....

 

How did Israel provoke this rocket attack? Pray tell.

 

 

[Morch]

26 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

There's already a serious problem when taking both the emboldened parts into consideration.

 

Nonetheless, I think the earlier poster has a very valid point that those in power (in both camps) are largely to blame as they pursue funding and power from sympathisers.

 

Its a sad fact of life that the ordinary person caught up in this war (with little money or power) will continue the hatred until the leaders start serious, fair negotiations that result in peaceful consequences - that ordinary people on both sides can see happening.

There's already a serious problem when taking both the emboldened parts into consideration.

 

 

What would be the problem with the two lines highlighted?

 

Hamas is the de facto sovereign in the Gaza Strip. They proclaim it whenever they can. Every round of hostilities ended up with pretty much the same (unofficial) understandings, among them Hamas being responsible for keeping all organizations and outfits in the Gaza Strip under control. That means no rocket launches against Israel. The alternative would be Israel conducting frequent military operations within the Gaza Strip. All around, the standing arrangement is the choice.

 

The previous poster might have had a point, but that's not quite what the recent rocket attack was about.

 

[Morch]

27 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I wish I could remember who told me you were an unbiased poster in these discussions .

 

And I wish you'd have something to contribute other than personal remarks, but alas....

[Scott]

Numerous posts and replies have been removed.   Continuing to bicker, inflame, troll and misuse the report function will result in suspension.  

 

The OP is relatively clear.   Stay on topic.  

[Morch]

27 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Latest land grab from the Gaza strip dates back after the Israeli summer 2014 offensive. All civil infrastructures have then been heavily bombed by the IAF. Sheyiaya town bombing till dust is just one example of it. Furthermore 44%of the land has been taken as a 3km safe zone, where it's forbidden to live.

 

This just to explain that the demolition and land grab actually never stopped.

 

Many Palestinians joined the Lebanese forces during the last decades. Rocket launching from Lebanon and West Bank into Israeli territory must have been reported to global news agencies.

 

Furthermore, it's known that Gaza is still under siege, read occupation. 

 

 

 

The 2014 fighting was not a land grab.

There are no Illegal Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip.

There are no Israeli troops within the Gaza Strip.

The destruction visited on the Gaza Strip was the result of the fighting, not quite the same as the house demolitions alluded to.

 

And the usual figures tossed around without a source....

This was actually addressed in a previous topic. There is an area along the border which was designated as a buffer zone. Meant to keep hostiles away and innocents from getting hurt. The width of said area varied over the years, with different (unofficial) agreements reached after each round of fighting. If memory serves, after 2012, it was expanded some, so that Palestinian could toil the land up to the fence (or pretty much). Post 2014, with the advent of the Hamas attack tunnels, Israel wished to for the return of the previous buffer zone. At any rate, not 3 km wide - unless one counts the buffer zone on both sides of the border, perhaps.

 

Can't offhand recall rocket launches from the West Bank.

 

[Thorgal]

11 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The 2014 fighting was not a land grab.

There are no Illegal Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip.

There are no Israeli troops within the Gaza Strip.

The destruction visited on the Gaza Strip was the result of the fighting, not quite the same as the house demolitions alluded to.

 

And the usual figures tossed around without a source....

This was actually addressed in a previous topic. There is an area along the border which was designated as a buffer zone. Meant to keep hostiles away and innocents from getting hurt. The width of said area varied over the years, with different (unofficial) agreements reached after each round of fighting. If memory serves, after 2012, it was expanded some, so that Palestinian could toil the land up to the fence (or pretty much). Post 2014, with the advent of the Hamas attack tunnels, Israel wished to for the return of the previous buffer zone. At any rate, not 3 km wide - unless one counts the buffer zone on both sides of the border, perhaps.

 

Can't offhand recall rocket launches from the West Bank.

 

 

Palestinian land completely under Israeli control after the 2014 Summer offensive. You can swing with numerous definitions, but for me it's land grab.

 

The previous safety zone was 300 meters. 

 

The Gaza strip is fully depending on Israeli utilities, knowing that the Palestinian utilities have been destroyed previously. According to OP, a water tower has been destroyed...

Idem dito for all main basic economic resources. For me it's an Israeli settlement if you compare to a Kibutz, except that the Palestinians are prisoners.

[Boon Mee]

2 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

Has it occurred to anyone that Israel is intentionally provoking rocket attacks from Gaza .

No.

Why in the world would they want to bring in more death?

The Israelites just want to live in Peace! 

[ddavidovsky]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

You ought to PM Pakboong....

 

How did Israel provoke this rocket attack? Pray tell.

 

 

 

Sorry, I only do rational debate. There's no point me answering.

 

If you want to know how the Palestinians are being oppressed, ask them. There are plenty of online sources.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Thorgal said:

 

Palestinian land completely under Israeli control after the 2014 Summer offensive. You can swing with numerous definitions, but for me it's land grab.

 

The previous safety zone was 300 meters. 

 

The Gaza strip is fully depending on Israeli utilities, knowing that the Palestinian utilities have been destroyed previously. According to OP, a water tower has been destroyed...

Idem dito for all main basic economic resources. For me it's an Israeli settlement if you compare to a Kibutz, except that the Palestinians are prisoners.

 

The usual attempts at misinformation.

 

The image linked is not current, but refers to the situation 3 weeks into the last round of fighting. The local populace was told to evacuate as a temporary measure. There is no 3 km  deep buffer zone maintained since the unofficial truce.

 

Here is the quote from the source:

 

Quote

The casualty toll among Palestinian civilians continues to increase, as the Gaza emergency enters its third week and the Israeli ground offensive continues for the fifth consecutive day. Since the launch of the latter over 120 ,000 have fled their homes and a three kilometer -  wide strip, encompassing 44 per cent of Gaza’s territory, has been declared by the Israeli military a ‘buffer zone’

https://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_sitrep_23_07_2014.pdf

 

The picture of the hit water tower appearing in the OP was debunked as dating from 2014 (post by SD).

 

Here's some information on the buffer zone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip#Buffer_Zone

 

And here's my previous post on the subject:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/915443-deadly-flare-up-in-violence-as-israel-finds-gaza-tunnel/#comment-10723384

 

Posters may wish to note that Egypt instituted a rather wide buffer zone along its border with the Gaza Strip. Much wider than the Israelis did, and rather brutally put in place. There are no rockets flying their way, there isn't much forum rage expressed.

 

 

EDIT: This new forum DGS##%#%S!

Edited August 24, 2016 by Morch

[Morch]

47 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

Sorry, I only do rational debate. There's no point me answering.

 

If you want to know how the Palestinians are being oppressed, ask them. There are plenty of online sources.

 

There is nothing in my post to suggest I do not agree that the Palestinians are being oppressed. That does quite explain how this specific rocket attack was "intentionally provoked" by Israel. In the same way, there is no explanation how this alleged "intentional provocation" works only with regard to the Gaza Strip, but fails miserably when it comes to the West Bank.

[Fookhaht]

Threads like this sadly humor me, particularly those who so confidently and vehemently take one side or the other..  

I've been to the Israel twice and have talked personally with both sides (Israelis and Palestinians) at length about political matters.  I've talked to modern Israelis, orthodox Jews, secular and Islamic Palestinians.

 

My take:  It's a tit-for-tat, guilt-on-all-sides that has been see-sawing for generations.  It predates the UN partitioning of 1948.  Most belligerents can't point to the first offensive move.  They can only quote Talmudic and Koranic prophecies, promising the land to both sides.  

It's one of the most hopeless conflicts of history.  

Anyone who takes sides is blind to the reality on the ground.   Carry on, armchair pundits!  At best, it's mildly entertaining, but seldom informative. 

Edited August 24, 2016 by Fookhaht

[NativeSon360]

On 8/23/2016 at 2:43 PM, Baerboxer said:

 

I genuinely believe the Palestinians could have had a peace treaty,  and been helped to create thriving communities anytime since about 1949.

 

Instead the get manipulated by religious zealots and extremists in countries that, whilst the same religion and race, actually help them little in reality.

 

Israel responds to attack in the only way terrorists understand. Something the West is now beginning to understand. 

Sometimes it's smarter to remain silent!

Edited August 24, 2016 by NativeSon360

[Ulysses G.]

8 hours ago, Thorgal said:

 

Average success or hit rate of the Iron Dome Tamir missiles is 5% and in some cases even below.

 

Has been proven during 2012 and 2014 conflicts. For 2016 it's a 0% efficiency...

 

Iron Dome has a 90% success rate. You are posting incorrect information.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[t8769]

If Israel wasn,t full of Jooooz would anyone care?

 

 

Millions of people are killed and persecuted in the Middle East. Who gives a flying puck! No one.

 

All these Israel experts. Why do they care about this tiny conflict?

 

 

Jooooooz

 

 

Racism.pure and simple

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2016 by t8769

[Ulysses G.]

2 hours ago, t8769 said:

If Israel wasn,t full of Jooooz would anyone care?

 

 

Millions of people are killed and persecuted in the Middle East. Who gives a flying puck! No one.

 

All these Israel experts. Why do they care about this tiny conflict?

 

 

Jooooooz

 

 

Racism.pure and simple

 

 

 

 

I agree with you completely, but, for the nitpickers, it would be religious bigotry.