Tired Of Retirement - The Dream Versus The Reality

[chiang mai]

After five years of retirement and living in the LOS I am going to "un retire" and head back to the West .

I retired in 2002 at age 52 and because I had lived and worked in The Far East and SE Asia for many years settling in Thailand was easier for me than most. I had saved some money and had equity in UK real estate that I cashed in and I live comfortable. My savings are about as safe as you can get in fixed rate/term bank deposits and generate about 100,000 baht a month - I own my condo and my car. So given all of this, why would I go back to work you ask? Three reasons, not in any oder of importance:

The first is that I really miss work and all that entails. I miss the challenges of solving problems, working hard to achieve or build something and the satisfaction that brings. I was never a golfer etc and I find it difficult in Thailand to achieve the same level of mental stimulation that work brings. People say, buy a business but I have been here long enough to realize the chances of success here are very low and I am at the end of the day, very risk averse.

Secondly I have watched Thailand change over the past twenty years and today it does not nearly resemble the place I used to know. Of course it has changed physically and in most cases for the worse. I have watched Thailand destroy the beauty and natural appeal of Phuket and Samui and other places and hold little hope that will ever be reversed in my lifetime. I have also watched the people change from being innocent and naive, pleasant and warm to an altogether more mercenary and dangerous bunch.

Thirdly, whilst I have enough money for now I doubt that I will have enough money to live the way I chose to live in say five or ten years time. My personal view is that many western economies will begin to have a difficult time from 2007 onwards. Housing markets in the UK and US are substantially over priced and a substantial correction will take place at some point in the next two or three years. Similarly stock markets are also overpriced and a major correction is on the cards. The knock on effect will be that exchange and deposit rates will become seriously unattractive for savers.

In summary, retirement for me is not something that I am fully ready for yet. I have come to realize that over the years of my working life I have always had the idea in mind to retire without qualifying what that really means. To others that want to retire at fifty my advise is to be careful what you wish for and/or to think it through more completely than I did.

[djinn]

Well,I am retired here too.54,first visit in Thailand in 1980.Living in eastern seaboard permanently since 2003.

Despite you I don't intend now to go back west.Perhaps later going to an other country as you never know what can happen in a 3rd world country like Thailand in 10 years.

I consider me here as a very long time holidayer.Have condo,car but all my assets are abroad

I understand your reasons to move

The challenges missing part was the most important to resolve for me.But as I partly retired when I was 41...I had time to manage that.I am still involved in some small real estate projects in Europ with people I trust (I need this because I normally go back west only once or twice a year)

Internet allows me to handle one part of my stocks directly.

And to exercise my brain small capabilities,I have ....some computer games and more important a list of BKK businessmen friends with whom I can share interests. (I was management consultant in one of my previous business lifes)

If I could not have all these measures to exercise my brain I would have stayed in the west .But I could have decided to stay 6 month a year for the more physical activities here

I am not as pessimistic as you on recession fears

-real estate market:If you rent your properties abroad and you don't need to seel,don't have to bother too much if there is a price downfall

-Market shares.It seems that US economy are soft landing and europ is still good.Asia is supported by China's booming economy.Forecast for 2007 are ok for me

BUT I think there is a major political risk:Iran.

Israel will never allow them to have nuclear power.If UN cannot stop Iran develloping their nuclear capabilities;well Israel could decide to do it herselve.

Deadline (the right expression I fear) should be mid 2007

Potential arab countries reaction:petroleum embargo .Same same as 1987 crisis 2 years for markets to recovery

So have to stay alert.An other brainstorming activity

Good luck in your second life in the west

[wamberal]

Firstly, there is a bit of a corollary here. Those of us who have been able to retire early are probably mostly the sort of people who need to do things. Planning for retirement is not just about money, it is also about lifestyle without paid work and all the challenges, problems and other aspects of life that work entails.

It is noticeable that very effective people often do not retire from paid work.......look at Warren Buffet, for an example.

In my retirement, I am actually busier in some respects than I was when working in paid employment..........but the work that I do is voluntary. And I can also fill all my spare time in with interesting things to do. Plus I have some great relationships, especially with my wife.

As for retirement income, anybody who plans to rely on fixed interest income needs to do their sums. If the amount of fixed income that you can generate now is just enough to live on, then you will be skint in 10 years time because of inflation.

If you intend to rely on fixed interest income, make sure that you are re-investing enough interest to allow for the on-going effects of inflation.

Or do what I have done, and invest some of your capital in growth assets.

[chiang mai]

Well,I am retired here too.54,first visit in Thailand in 1980.Living in eastern seaboard permanently since 2003.

Despite you I don't intend now to go back west.Perhaps later going to an other country as you never know what can happen in a 3rd world country like Thailand in 10 years.

I consider me here as a very long time holidayer.Have condo,car but all my assets are abroad

I understand your reasons to move

The challenges missing part was the most important to resolve for me.But as I partly retired when I was 41...I had time to manage that.I am still involved in some small real estate projects in Europ with people I trust (I need this because I normally go back west only once or twice a year)

Internet allows me to handle one part of my stocks directly.

And to exercise my brain small capabilities,I have ....some computer games and more important a list of BKK businessmen friends with whom I can share interests. (I was management consultant in one of my previous business lifes)

If I could not have all these measures to exercise my brain I would have stayed in the west .But I could have decided to stay 6 month a year for the more physical activities here

I am not as pessimistic as you on recession fears

-real estate market:If you rent your properties abroad and you don't need to seel,don't have to bother too much if there is a price downfall

-Market shares.It seems that US economy are soft landing and europ is still good.Asia is supported by China's booming economy.Forecast for 2007 are ok for me

BUT I think there is a major political risk:Iran.

Israel will never allow them to have nuclear power.If UN cannot stop Iran develloping their nuclear capabilities;well Israel could decide to do it herselve.

Deadline (the right expression I fear) should be mid 2007

Potential arab countries reaction:petroleum embargo .Same same as 1987 crisis 2 years for markets to recovery

So have to stay alert.An other brainstorming activity

Good luck in your second life in the west

Thanks for your comments and feedback. It's always useful to know how other people see things and I guess that was my reason for posting in the first place. Perhaps more interestingly, I also was a management consultant in one of my previous lives!

It's interesting that you return to the West a couple of times a year whereas I have stayed here virtually full time for the past five years. I did return this year to do a three month consulting job in London in the Spring/Summer and was shocked at how much I enjoyed being there. After such a long period away I was able to recognize instantly the contrasts, both good and bad and it made me realize the things that I value and need. I do not rule out retiring again to another country in the future and given my track record of country hoping all my life that is indeed probable - goodness knows where though.

I agree with your assessment of the Iran/Israel situation although for me that is a wild card that I cannot influence or control. I don't agree with your outlook for global economies but we can agree to differ on that point. Finally, your mindset is probably optimal in that you treat living in Thailand as an extended holiday and I have tried to do the same - but all holidays must come to an end at some point.

[Scott]

Wow, these are some well thought out reasons for retiring/not retiring/un-retiring. You posters so far are a bright bunch of people whose talents and knowledge are sorely needed in the working (consulting) world.

I am a ways from retiring, but the closer I get the more I think I will keep working. I find that at the end of the day, I like working. I feel good about myself when I am working and I am horrible at time management when left to my own devices.

I may not stay in full-time, regular employment, but I know it's in my best interest to continue to work.

I plan to stay in Thailand, however, it is always in the back of my mind that I am not a citizen and this is not really my country, so if returning home seems like the thing to do, I'll be ready for that.

[chiang mai]

Firstly, there is a bit of a corollary here. Those of us who have been able to retire early are probably mostly the sort of people who need to do things. Planning for retirement is not just about money, it is also about lifestyle without paid work and all the challenges, problems and other aspects of life that work entails.

It is noticeable that very effective people often do not retire from paid work.......look at Warren Buffet, for an example.

In my retirement, I am actually busier in some respects than I was when working in paid employment..........but the work that I do is voluntary. And I can also fill all my spare time in with interesting things to do. Plus I have some great relationships, especially with my wife.

As for retirement income, anybody who plans to rely on fixed interest income needs to do their sums. If the amount of fixed income that you can generate now is just enough to live on, then you will be skint in 10 years time because of inflation.

If you intend to rely on fixed interest income, make sure that you are re-investing enough interest to allow for the on-going effects of inflation.

Or do what I have done, and invest some of your capital in growth assets.

I agree with much of what you said but could debate at length the merits of investing in stock markets over the medium/long term versus fixed income from a safe haven. For me currently I see a 5.6% return on my money and I get to sleep at nights without any worries. I review the rates frequently and get to make new investment decisions every six months or so based on the maturity profile of a particular tranche of money I have on deposit. Do I lose sleep that I am not getting a greater or headline return, no sir.

[bmanly]

Chiang Mai, I know how you feel. I retired younger than most about 6 years ago but I am totally opposite to you, I love it! I do not live in Thailand full time though, only 50% of the time. Doing it like that is like an extended holiday and after it I'm happy to get back to Australia for various reasons and visa versa.

I am a keen traveller and spend a lot of time on the move. When I stay in Pattaya I have to get out to see the Country every Month or so. I have an ambition of seeing all the provinces of Thailand. So far I've been to about 60 of the 76. Narathiwat, Pattani and Yala might have to wait a while though . I also do frequent trips into Laos, Cambodia, and Malaysia. That is in Thailand, in Australia I travel all over our great Country.

The other thing that is very important in retirement is your health. You must eat well and excercise regularily. I excercise on average 2 hours a day by hiking or power walking. I do this in Thailand and in Australia every day.

I do not worry about financial markets much either. I am a self funded retiree and I do all my own investing. I spend most days going over reports and reading all the information I can on various investments and companies in Australia. This gets my brain working well and investing in the sharemarket is something I love to do. My hobby is my income and I have been doing it for 19 years now. To be in a safe position where a fall in any one market happens it is wise to be invested in 3 asset classes, real estate, shares and cash. This way you cusion yourself against any major fall in any one asset class.

All in all I would never turn back the hands of time, I have never been healthier and happier in all my life. As I sit here writing I am thinking of those islands down Southern Thailand or our first trip to India possibly early 2007. Good luck to you in whatever future decision you make, just thought I'd share my perspective.

[Naam]

In my retirement, I am actually busier in some respects than I was when working in paid employment..........but the work that I do is voluntary. And I can also fill all my spare time in with interesting things to do. Plus I have some great relationships, especially with my wife.

same goes for me. i am retired since 16 years, 10 months and 23 days and the day is not long enough to do all what i was planning to do 17 years ago.

[dutch]

I consider most people below the age of 60 too young to retire (excepted special circumstances of course).

I retired with 62 after a 42 years of hectic business life (always a salary-bonus base)

At 62 had the opportunity to go with pre-retirement.

My future stay in Thailand preparations were ready (house -car-communication-banking-moving arrangments) and I never regret it till to-day.

It is heaven on earth every evening to realize that the next morning there is NO "must".

Have to say that I enjoyed every single minute of my working life........till the decision was taken!

My income is a fixed monthly income per month,till I die. Every year with inflation correction

Haven't been back to my home country since 1999 and most probably will not do so in the future.

Retiring at 60 plus means also that you are in the opportunity to arrange/prepare your retirement funds over a longer period.

Edited November 23, 2006 by dutch

[Naam]

In my retirement, I am actually busier in some respects than I was when working in paid employment..........but the work that I do is voluntary. And I can also fill all my spare time in with interesting things to do. Plus I have some great relationships, especially with my wife.

same goes for me. i am retired since 16 years, 10 months and 23 days and the day is not long enough to do all what i was planning to do 17 years ago.

[chownah]

If you like your work so much then why did you stop?

[dgoz]

Why don't you start up a beer bar?

Thailand needs more of them.

At the moment there is only one bar per tourist. I think we should have at least two each. So get cracking, open a few.

[pnustedt]

I've lived in SE Asia for over 10 years and just "retired" to Thailand six months ago. The only reason we are in Thailand is because my wife is Thai and we live close to her family (although her two children are in HK, we both have HK PR).

None of the previous posters refer to their wives' aspirations - I don't think that mine could settle well in my home country (UK) and I have no wish to go back there.

We have a few small farms which we cultivate with the family, having bought machinery this year. I believe that I am integrated as part of the family and I suppose this is part of my investment for the future, i.e. I will have people who care and will look after me in my even older age.

I have been amazed at how low my cost of living is - we are spending a fraction on day-to-day living costs that I budgeted, so I do not foresee financial worries, in any case, we could live off the land if necessary.

We have many future plans, e.g. building a house on our most beautiful farm to spend weekends, etc. and there is always something to do on the farms, although I do need more mental stimulation. However, I would not consider moving long term to anywhere else despite all the frustrations.

[Tornado]

It is a funny word retirement.

If your not a golfer or a beach person, what is there else to do?

I tried to retire a couple of years ago and got so bored, I was back at work within 3 months.

Retirement is way to over rated, it feels like your waiting to die.

[billzant]

Dear Chiang Mai and Forum,

How are you?

It is interesting to read about your reactions to retirement, and how Chiang Mai you have decided to restart work. For myself I retired early 6 months ago at 54.

Retirement has not been at all what I expected. For 5 years I have been visiting Thailand, and have just enjoyed being here. I don’t particularly enjoy the tourist areas but in coming here I have enjoyed the pace and life of Thailand so in retiring I have come to a place I like to live with people I am comfortable with – so far. Chiang Mai, this might have two distinct features from your own situation. Since 1993 my job took me out of the UK, and whilst working “abroad” I learnt that it was very important for me to be happy amongst the people I am living with – even though I was never properly integrated with them, more integrated when working than now in retirement. In travelling I learnt there was much that I was dissatisfied with in the UK, and despite received “knowledge” growing up all is not awful outside the UK. For personal reasons I was forced back to work in the UK three years ago, and my views were reinforced so that I don’t wish to return there.

We are also from different professional backgrounds, I was an international school teacher. If I were to return to the UK at my age I probably wouldn’t have the personal armoury to cope with teaching there. Equally having worked outside the UK for so long my income has forced an exile, it is therefore fortunate that I don’t want to return there, and again, fortunate on the one hand and recent personal sadness on the other, family ties don’t pull me back either.

I am neither pulled back into my profession. I have always enjoyed teaching students, and by that I mean teaching. Being in front of a class is not teaching as people teaching in most UK schools ought to tell you, but in many schools throughout the world learning is still something many societies want for their young. Sadly however, many of these international schools, while purporting to have the virtues of learning, prioritise the desire for profits to such an extent that the learning comes a low second. Although many of these schools appear to offer a service they could do far better if teachers were given their head to teach. (Fortunately for this discussion, I have not taught in international schools in Thailand so can avoid comment.) The politics and careerism of those places have also been and engine towards retirement.

One poster mentioned lifestyle and that might be very significant. It appears that posters have the financial means to retire early to satisfy their own standard of living. Was that the reason for the retirement – being financially able to do so?

Throughout my life I have always had a little dream of retiring somewhere quiet amidst my books with a wireless internet whiling away my time in the garden with study and email surfing etc. Yes you’ve spotted my poor piece of planning for retiring here – wireless internet in Thailand outside Bangkok with the state of the ISPs at the moment. Anyway I digress. Although I have spent much time using the internet - and much time trying to make it work satisfactorily, I haven’t actually picked up a book.

This brings me back to lifestyle. Many people would not be happy with the way I live – so what! But it is a lifestyle. It is too early to tell but so far I have not regretted for one minute my decision to retire early. My lifestyle is developing but it has not been at all what I had conceived. However I am still adjusting to the gaps in my life that have been left because I have left the World of Work, that World has far more impact than I ever thought of; there is still much to come to terms with.

I would point to two things as being important for retirement. Firstly it is absolutely necessary to have the finance so as not to worry, many of us have not got the health or strength to easily move back into the World of Work. But secondly and perhaps even more important to plan for a lifestyle that is fulfilling for you, without such I would think retirement would mean tedium as your mental capacities have not been diminished by old age as yet.

If someone posts the same in 5 years where will I be?

Hope you are keeping well,

All the Best

Bill Z

[chiang mai]

If you like your work so much then why did you stop?

I think what happens is that you work flat out for many many years and you reach a point where you question why you are doing it any more. The answer comes back that you do it because you have always done it. When you count up the pennies you realize you don't need to work and you decide its time for a rest, a long one. I have to say that now I have had a long rest I am better prepared than I have probably ever been to get back into the fray. The rest period also allows you a chance to decide on the priorities in your life, decide the things you like and decide the things you really enjoy - all things that I never seemed to have time to do effectively when I was working before. It's a bit like taking a gap year from University except at an older age.

[chiang mai]

Why don't you start up a beer bar?

Thailand needs more of them.

At the moment there is only one bar per tourist. I think we should have at least two each. So get cracking, open a few.

######, I wish I'd thought of that - do you think there's still time!

[kmart]

Seems like the secret to retiring is to keep as active as possible. I remember colleagues having retired from work at my old company in the UK, just seeming to die really quickly after retirement; just apparently dying of boredom, and losing the will to enjoy life after life's little tasks and tribulations are removed.

I'm never retiring ever. I hate golf (I'm still sexually active ), and retirement would never fund my rock 'n roll lifestyle.

[Nawtilus]

Well, I kind of retired at 37, the first year was just overseeing something on a very casual basis. Then moved to Los and basically since 38 have not worked...now 42...but I did spend all of my time with my 2 little kids and I will never regret doing this as I have spent a lot of time with them growing up during their first years.

Now I am bored a little and realsied that I want to build something more for the kids, so have taken on some things here in los and this will keep me busy.

I have also been chatting to a friend who is working in Indoneseia and I have kind of got a bug to go and join him for a little while working again on month on and off tours, but I doubt I could leave my kids for a month at a time.

So, after 4 years of not doing much, it does get a little boring if you have nothing to do. I was lucky in that my decision to do it was to be with my kids a lot and I have enjoyed it so much that it will never be regretted.

[Tolley]

Retirement i believe requires a lot of planning.

If you are still healthy you will need something to occupy your time so thought needs to be given to actually what you are going to do when you retire.

Where you are going to live is also important as it is much harder to make friends and form relationships as you get older.

What amenities are around? What are the health care facilities about etc

Of course you have to look at the financial aspect as well and this could be part of your time spent by looking at how to get the best out of your investments. Getting 5.6 percent as the OP stated is like throwing money away. You can get 7 percent from Aussie banks at the moment so i wouldn't be settling for less than 8 percent return on my investments.

[wamberal]

I agree with much of what you said but could debate at length the merits of investing in stock markets over the medium/long term versus fixed income from a safe haven. For me currently I see a 5.6% return on my money and I get to sleep at nights without any worries. I review the rates frequently and get to make new investment decisions every six months or so based on the maturity profile of a particular tranche of money I have on deposit. Do I lose sleep that I am not getting a greater or headline return, no sir.

Stock markets are not the only growth asset: property and managed funds are others.

However, the original point that I made holds good. The original poster said that he currently enjoyed an income of THB100k per month.

Let us assume that cost inflation is 5% for the next ten years. At the end of that time, his income will be the equivalent of THB59.87k per month. At the end of 15 years it will be the equivalent of THB46.33k per month.

And at the end of 20 years, and I hope we all live that long, his income will be the less than princely sum of THB 35,840 per month in today's money.

Of course, there are many variables in this simple equation......inflation could be higher or lower, interest rates can rise and fall.

My simple point is that, if you going to rely on fixed interest income EITHER re-invest some of the interest income to allow for the effects of inflation OR invest part of your capital in growth assets.

Or be prepared for a very significant reduction in real income as you get older.

Edited November 23, 2006 by wamberal

[Dakhar]

I was supposed to move to Thailand and semi-retire..... But now I work at least 3 times harder, and no time to lay on the couch..

Oh well... got to run

[chiang mai]

I agree with much of what you said but could debate at length the merits of investing in stock markets over the medium/long term versus fixed income from a safe haven. For me currently I see a 5.6% return on my money and I get to sleep at nights without any worries. I review the rates frequently and get to make new investment decisions every six months or so based on the maturity profile of a particular tranche of money I have on deposit. Do I lose sleep that I am not getting a greater or headline return, no sir.

Stock markets are not the only growth asset: property and managed funds are others.

However, the original point that I made holds good. The original poster said that he currently enjoyed an income of THB100k per month.

Let us assume that cost inflation is 5% for the next ten years. At the end of that time, his income will be the equivalent of THB59.87k per month. At the end of 15 years it will be the equivalent of THB46.33k per month.

And at the end of 20 years, and I hope we all live that long, his income will be the less than princely sum of THB 35,840 per month in today's money.

Of course, there are many variables in this simple equation......inflation could be higher or lower, interest rates can rise and fall.

My simple point is that, if you going to rely on fixed interest income EITHER re-invest some of the interest income to allow for the effects of inflation OR invest part of your capital in growth assets.

Or be prepared for a very significant reduction in real income as you get older.

I cannot fault your math and I do agree with your conclusions. Just for the record I stated that I generate an income of 100k per month, not that I spend 100k per month!

[PeaceBlondie]

I learned at a retirement seminar around 1990 that I was supposed to plan my retirement. I tried, but when I got burned at being a manager at age 55, I discovered I could retire one year later! I did, and only the first few years went as planned. Then I tried going back to work, but I started out in a dead end that paid one-third my prior salary, so I quit. Suddenly, I was teaching English in Thailand full time, running down the highway at insane speeds, sweating like a pig, keeping busy. Then the dog stood in the road on a damned visa run, and I stopped teaching.

But my last pension says I can only work 11 hours per week. Teaching English is my only real choice. I'm in a place full of English teachers, and I ain't gonna' cut my blond ponytail when my son has one third the hair I have....so I'm bored.

So, I should teach part time, even for an NGO for free. But then there's the visa, and the work permit, and the teachers' license. Not worth the hassle, just not worth it....still, I'm so tired with being bored.

[Firefan]

Retirement early is probably only for the few. Besides the obvious financial aspect, it takes a special personality to handle the dramatic change in life style. We have been programmed all our life to be productive/work and the switch to being responsible for our OWN time, all day, is something many can't handle. Reminds me of the Matrix...

Some people are never bored(me!), while others get bored very easily and need somebody (boss/job/clients) to "stimulate" them.

What about learning Thai or other languages?, travel and learn new cultures/people?, meet up with good friends and family(here or abroad)?, spend time learning to dive/fly whatever?, reada book? Use the internet to study subjects that interest one? Handle own investments? Do sports/fitness to stay in shape? Learn to cook better? Learn massage techniques(or just go for a massage)?

Financially one should try to focus on a globally and asset class wise well diversfied, low cost portfolio.

I advise friends asking for advise on moving to Thailand to make 2 budgets; the "OK" lifestyle budget (pay the bills,food on table, health insurance, taxis Etc.), and the "Frivilous" lifestyle budget(luxury travel, new car, good wines Etc.) and ensure that the cash/bond(and maybe rental income) part of the portfolio covers the first OK budget - with the 2nd part of portfolio being easy to adjust consumption up and down depending on actual returns - besides ensuring one gets overall returns that beat inflation (longer term).

Cheers!

[GuestHouse]

A great thread and some well thought out responses (what I call the best of TV).

As Wamberal observed, the people who have set their stall out for early retirement are often the kind of people who have had busy challenging working lives, and need that in retirement.

On ANOther Thailand webboard there is a guy advertising his house. He retired to Thailand and threw himself into the happy task of building his dream house. The house is now finished and he's sitting twiddling his thumbs.

I think we all need a challenge in life, those doing voluntary work for example are following a well tordden path. Back here in the west voluntary organizations are often staffed by people who have had challenging careers, they bring their engergy to help others - Why oh Why Thailand does not see the benefit expats and their expertese can and do offer in this respect.

My own plans, well, I plan to retire in my mid fifties, if I don't like retirement I can go back to work. What I will not do is what my father did. Work hard all his life, save for a good retirement and then die at 67, two years after first drawing the pension he worked so hard for.

Just a point about Pension Saving (and adding on to the discussion about inflation).

If like me, you have a spouse who is a lot younger than you (my wife is twelve years younger than me), then you need to plan for her retirement too. The oldies in my wife's family have all lived into their 90s, if my wife did like wise she might be drawing on my pension for over 40 years! If I start drawing my pension at 55, my wife might be living on it for 50 years!!! (and I hope she does)

Now there's a case for inflation proofing.

More humorously, those who have very young wives might also find that the pension they receive at 65 might also have to support a 45 year old mother-in-law. I've met a number of older farangs who are working and supporting Thais who are 'just too old to work', despite being younger than the farang supporting them.

Edited November 23, 2006 by GuestHouse

[terry57]

running short of time so just a quicky.

the people that have trouble with retirement are the ones who have worked hard all there life and have not explored there recreational options.

ive maintained a 50/50 perspective and cant wait to retire full time.

try having a bit of fun mate.

[djinn]

One moment please guys,

I read about "how is it possible to retire early?I am boring,I want to work again...."

All respectable feelings , thougts and planning but...

Let ask the other question:Why working?Well first to have enough income to have a decent life.

Second,as mentionned in a previous answer to fullfill challenges

third,I think to socialise.You can meet very interesting people (not a lot but that's an other debate) at your job places.

Forth you need to solve problems,to use your brain

So retirement comes naturally in mind when theses 4 basic needs were fulfilled and espescially when you have reached your life (business life) objectives.

The workalcoholics for many of them cannot look their life in perspective.They are "testosterone driven" could I say.They find so much short time good feelings with their works...I can understand that.I had the same feeling before.But I saw my physical condition going down at 40 years old due to the stress I imposed to myself.So STOP

When this situation occur,you have to carefully plan your next life.

-Have you really enough income,enough money to spend during the rest of your life?If you have children ,what do you wish to leave them???same same for your wife/companion (I will not enter in this subject in Thailand )

-Challenges;you MUST have some or you will die from boredom or alcohol or sex addiction here Can be anything;following your investments,working (oups WP problem....) for a charity....anything

-Socialise.You MUST come here with a good adress book (not full of bars please )

So you can share common interests

-All of the previous will already oblige you brain to work but anything more will help.Follows the international events if you are history fan so you can imagine the causes and consequences...Read books...again anything

-And sure some exercise will help (I don't speak from night exercise despite the fact that it helps a LOT to stay fit)

And yes this thread is TV at his best

Thanks to all the contributors

I surely will continue to read and particiate IMHO

[Hermano Lobo]

I have been trying to retire from the first day I started work.

I think a lot of it is down to the individual. A few years back the lucky ones at work took the golden wheelbarrow and early retirement. A number of them haven't a clue what to do with themselves, while others, are as happy as larry and the day is not long enough for them.

I remember in the mid 1980's sitting outside my favourite jazz bar in Ibiza Town, sitting at another table I watched the face of a newly retired 50-something. He looked bored witless and it was easy to see that the dream had not matched the reality. I saw the same in a quiet part of the Algarve in Portugal,where a newly retired 50-something was trying to justify his and his wife's new lifestyle to a companion.

From what I have observed the important thing is to retire to do something else.

Sitting at a bar all day long can be fatal, literally.

Last year I spent an afternoon or seven in the Nevada A go go in Pattaya.

I noticed a number of older men(60's) come in and have a few bevvies, watch the girls etc.

But to do that every day ! I think even I would soon get bored with a A Go-Go.

As I said before......

Retire to do something else.

Edited November 23, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[cclub75]

I have been trying to retire from the first day I started work.

Me too. I mean : it was my first target : work to stop working.

"Achbeit macht frei" [work makes you free] were saying, with a lot of perversion, the nazis at the concentration camps.

I do not agree. Work is slavery.

Now, occupation is a totally different story.

Doing something, OK. Working, no.

As for myself, a few more years and I will be totally free.