Australia plan for vote on gay marriage hits stumbling block

[webfact]

Australia plan for vote on gay marriage hits stumbling block 
ROD McGUIRK, Associated Press

 

CANBERRA, Australia (AP) — The government's plan to hold a popular vote on whether Australia should allow same-sex marriage suffered a setback Monday when a political party announced it would not support the proposed plebiscite.

 

The Nick Xenophon Team, which supports marriage equality, said its three senators would not support legislation to authorize the plebiscite, which would effectively become a 160 million Australian dollar ($120 million) opinion poll without legal weight. Even if most Australians voted for same-sex marriage, conservative government lawmakers could still block the reform in Parliament, the party said.

 

Another party that favors gay marriage, the Greens, announced last week that it was also against holding the plebiscite. That leaves the opposition center-left Labor Party as the government's only hope of getting the Senate to back holding a popular vote on same-sex marriage.

 

Labor leader Bill Shorten supports marriage equality but has recently stepped up his attacks on the plebiscite plan. But Labor is waiting to see the proposed legislation for the vote before announcing whether its senators would back it.

 

"The quickest path to resolving this issue would be a vote in the Parliament, and that's what we will be seeking to do in the coming days and weeks," Shorten said Monday.

 

The Nick Xenophon Team and Greens agree with Labor that Parliament should decide without waiting for a non-binding popular vote.

"We should never put questions of human rights to an opinion poll," Greens leader Richard Di Natale said Friday.

 

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull agreed to hold the plebiscite in a deal with gay marriage opponents within his party. In return, those opponents backed Turnbull in an internal leadership ballot that toppled Prime Minister Tony Abbott a year ago.

 

Turnbull, a gay marriage advocate, had previously spoken out against such a public vote that could create painful divisions in Australian society.

 

Gay marriage lobbyists are generally opposed to the plebiscite, which they argue was initiated by lawmakers who hope it fails.

 

Plebiscites and referendums — which are legally-binding popular votes — rarely manage to change the status quo in Australia.

 

Some marriage equality advocates warn that a lost plebiscite could likely set back their cause for decades.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-08-29

[JetsetBkk]

Scared of the plebs? You betcha!

 

It's called democracy. 

 

[Matthew2027]

Don't waste the Tax Payers money - MY money, just grow some balls Malcolm, have a Vote in Parliament and put the money into something important... like Schools, Health or give some more to the pensioners...

[phantomfiddler]

What surprises me is the number of people who try to make us all think that being gay is quite normal ! This it is not, and gay marriage would most likely give the happy couple the ability to adopt a small child, and I would put it to you that this child,s idea of what is a normal relationship would be severely misguided. On the other hand I see no problem with gays just carrying on with their lives without fear or prejudice. Just do your thing without having to ram it down the throats of all who,s sole sin is to merely disagree   Straight people do not have huge rallies down city streets shouting "Yahoo, we are straight, aren,t we great" !

[Fookhaht]

9 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

What surprises me is the number of people who try to make us all think that being gay is quite normal ! This it is not, and gay marriage would most likely give the happy couple the ability to adopt a small child, and I would put it to you that this child,s idea of what is a normal relationship would be severely misguided. . . .

"Normal"  --  Neither is being mentally handicapped,  being black (in my Thai town), or having an IQ of 120.

I don't think "normal" is the issue or the measuring stick here.  

On that faulty premise, your entire post flushes down the toilet.  

Edited August 29, 2016 by Fookhaht

[bridge2bridge]

1 hour ago, Matthew2027 said:

Don't waste the Tax Payers money - MY money, just grow some balls Malcolm, have a Vote in Parliament and put the money into something important... like Schools, Health or give some more to the pensioners...

And just say NO.

 

[Doc46]

Marriage is Between Two people of the opposite gender,Not same gender ,They never should be Allowed to have children,,,because they will grow up in the wrong environment.Children must grow up with a Father & Mother.

[maoro2013]

"We should never put questions of human rights to an opinion pollAre you kidding?

[Navalator]

1 hour ago, phantomfiddler said:

What surprises me is the number of people who try to make us all think that being gay is quite normal ! This it is not, and gay marriage would most likely give the happy couple the ability to adopt a small child, and I would put it to you that this child,s idea of what is a normal relationship would be severely misguided. On the other hand I see no problem with gays just carrying on with their lives without fear or prejudice. Just do your thing without having to ram it down the throats of all who,s sole sin is to merely disagree   Straight people do not have huge rallies down city streets shouting "Yahoo, we are straight, aren,t we great" !

.....and YOU are normal?  You sound quite like a closet bigot or an evangelical hate nutcase.

[Pepper1959]

The issue for me is that once the money has been spent on the plebiscite, our wonderful politicians will have no legally binding commitment to vote, as their constituents have voted. Therefore, you either have to instruct these useless oxygen wasters to legally follow the votes of their electorates or to simply have a parliamentary vote. People have their opinions, strongly, one way or another on this topic and it can be quite divisive and I think it is totally undemocratic of politicians to not heed the voice of their constituents. It is for this reason that people are asking that each electorate's vote be published, as well as the vote of the sitting member. However, I am sure this would have little impact on anything, being a new term government, with almost three years still to run.

[kamahele]

1 hour ago, phantomfiddler said:

What surprises me is the number of people who try to make us all think that being gay is quite normal ! This it is not, and gay marriage would most likely give the happy couple the ability to adopt a small child, and I would put it to you that this child,s idea of what is a normal relationship would be severely misguided. On the other hand I see no problem with gays just carrying on with their lives without fear or prejudice. Just do your thing without having to ram it down the throats of all who,s sole sin is to merely disagree   Straight people do not have huge rallies down city streets shouting "Yahoo, we are straight, aren,t we great" !

Not normal? It's normal and can be found in just about all species of animals (including humans) on the planet. Humans seem to be the only species who have issues with it though. If you have no problem with gay people living their lives without fear or prejudice, why would you think having the right to marry is to somehow to "ram " it down your throat?( I'm being polite by not making fun of that comment). Straight people which make up over 90 percent of society don't have a need to have a parade as their rights to live freely and equally haven't been held back. When I was born it was illegal to be gay. You could be arrested for dancing with someone of the same gender. You could be arrested in your own home for sharing a bed with someone of the same gender. We've come a long way but seeing your post, it is obvious there is still a long way to go and more parades in the making .

[kamahele]

19 minutes ago, Doc46 said:

Marriage is Between Two people of the opposite gender,Not same gender ,They never should be Allowed to have children,,,because they will grow up in the wrong environment.Children must grow up with a Father & Mother.

Surely you must be joking 

[williamgeorgeallen]

marriage this and marriage that. ban the stupid out dated practice and put the money and effort into seeing our youth are bought up properly. seriously, no sane person should give a f#ck about some stupid contract between a man and a woman. maybe we need contracts forcing people to raise their children properly.

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, Doc46 said:

Marriage is Between Two people of the opposite gender,Not same gender ,They never should be Allowed to have children

 

Are you one of those guys who took metalwork instead of biology in high school?

[thaihome]

2 hours ago, Doc46 said:

Marriage is Between Two people of the opposite gender,Not same gender ,They never should be Allowed to have children,,,because they will grow up in the wrong environment.Children must grow up with a Father & Mother.

So if your spouse dies you have to immediately get married again? 

 

Your post, besides the ignorance of biology,  is just a silly argument. 

TH 

 

[gchurch259]

I still have faith that some Christian Nation will finally stand up against this immoral liberals move to control the majority. 

 

The World seems to be reliving Sodom and Gomorrah !!

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, gchurch259 said:

I still have faith that some Christian Nation will finally stand up against this immoral liberals move to control the majority. 

 

The World seems to be reliving Sodom and Gomorrah !!

 

Maybe an alliance with the Muslims? I understand that their sky fairy is a bit orthodox in his ways too..

[NeilSA1]

1 hour ago, thaihome said:

So if your spouse dies you have to immediately get married again? 

 

Your post, besides the ignorance of biology,  is just a silly argument. 

TH 

 

 

Divorce is also a major factor resulting in one parent families.

 

[callaway]

It was Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.

[Pdaz]

How does a Govt justify the idea of wasting millions of dollars of tax payers money on appeasing less than 5% of the population ? Is it because that minority are actually a majority in the media, civil service and the Govt ? 

[Pdaz]

55 minutes ago, callaway said:

It was Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.

 Had it been Adam and Steve, we wouldn't be here right now.....unless they adopted ? 

[Si Thea01]

Really do not care what they get up to behind closed doors, their business not mine, however, if they want a union, which many have now, why do they need to hijack the word marriage, which by law under relates to a union between man and woman, not man and man or woman and woman.

 

It's like the word gay, which they have hijacked, if you use that word in the wrong context then you called all sorts of things.  My poor old mum, god rest her soul,  who was christened Ethel Gay, the latter being the name she used all her life, would probably have been demonised given how today's PC brigade carries on.

 

Under Australian law, gays are permitted to adopt children, have the same legal rights as defacto couples, so they have everything they need, so why to they need to use the word, marriage?  My opinion, if they get this, it then becomes the thin edge of the wedge for anything else they may dream up and think they are entitled to. 

 

The politicians are scared stiff that the plebiscite will get up with a resounding no, despite what they allege the polls are saying, that the yes vote will win. They just want to kill off democracy and take the vote away from the Australian voters.

 

They are condemning the cost of A$160m and also that the plebiscite  can be overruled as it is not law.  And yes it can be ignored but given that it was one of the platforms that the government put forward and helped win them the election, albeit by one seat, they would be destroyed if they went against the Australian voters.

 

Have a look who is bringing up these points, Labor and the Greens, who in 8 years stuffed the entire Australian economy and place the country in debt to the tune of A$500b of which the interest payable is A$1b.  What hypocrites, they didn't give a stuff how much they spent when in power.

 

The Australian political elite are becoming less and less relevant as time goes on.  All sides, it appears, do not have the kahunas to take on any hard tasks, like fixing the economy and getting the country back to surplus, they just go on and on showing how gutless they are by debating matters that will not help, in any way, the financial problems that the country is in and is really not wanted by the majority of Australians.

[callaway]

4 hours ago, Pdaz said:

 Had it been Adam and Steve, we wouldn't be here right now.....unless they adopted ? 

Similar to what Thailand face in future with a dwindling population. Women want to be lesbians or toms and men want to be katoeys or gay. Who is going to do the breeding? It will be a dwindling supply of hetrosexual relationships.

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, callaway said:

Similar to what Thailand face in future with a dwindling population. Women want to be lesbians or toms and men want to be katoeys or gay. Who is going to do the breeding? It will be a dwindling supply of hetrosexual relationships.

 

I am not sure that, even in Thailand, homosexuality is enforced. If Thais want to be with their own gender that is entirely up to them - that society is becoming more accepting of it can only be a positive thing.

[Cats4ever]

3 hours ago, Si Thea01 said:

Really do not care what they get up to behind closed doors, their business not mine, however, if they want a union, which many have now, why do they need to hijack the word marriage, which by law under relates to a union between man and woman, not man and man or woman and woman.

It is only since the 1990's that the LAW states marriage is between a man and a woman; before it said it was between two people. John Howard passed the change thru parliament and did not have a plebescite. Politicians should do their jobs or we should be allowed to recover the cost of the plebescite from their wages and benefits.

[Si Thea01]

43 minutes ago, Cats4ever said:

It is only since the 1990's that the LAW states marriage is between a man and a woman; before it said it was between two people. John Howard passed the change thru parliament and did not have a plebescite. Politicians should do their jobs or we should be allowed to recover the cost of the plebescite from their wages and benefits.

 

It actually changed in May 2004.  It is the law, whether one likes it or not.  If it was put up as part of a platform by the government for re-election to have a plebiscite, and it was accepted by a majority of voters, then they have also accepted the cost and the government at the time is doing it's job as it was elected by the people to do.   

[SABloke]

19 hours ago, Doc46 said:

Marriage is Between Two people of the opposite gender,Not same gender ,They never should be Allowed to have children,,,because they will grow up in the wrong environment.Children must grow up with a Father & Mother.

 

I grew up with only a mother...amazingly,  I didn' t turn into a woman 

[Wilsonandson]

[Jingthing]

I'm sure that sooner or later Australia will come around and join the marriage equality club. As will Thailand. It's a good club. The water's fine. 

[Ulysses G.]

20 hours ago, Si Thea01 said:

Really do not care what they get up to behind closed doors, their business not mine, however, if they want a union, which many have now, why do they need to hijack the word marriage, which by law under relates to a union between man and woman, not man and man or woman and woman.

 

 

 

 

I agree completely. I am all for gay partnerships with the same legal rights as straights, but calling it something other than marriage. However, I'm afraid this is one we are going to lose. The gay lobby have done to good of a job of convincing the public about "marriage equality" and all of that. I blame the hard-core conservatives who did not compromise when they could have.