Thailand embarks on program to ensure citizens speak English

[michaellee]

HAHAHAHA!!! This is very funny.  I did two classes and the Thai students are hopeless, they don't pay attention ,they think Thai language is the Master of all languages, they are not interested have no passion in learning another language, even basic english words I ask them what is "Breakfast"? seriously they replied MAI ROO for grade 4. 

[Rhys]

So who just got promoted, I can fix it in one month so called educators.. need the ganzo politician like the dude of PI.... bang bang stop or I'll shoot.

 

The usual drivel about the importance of English for Thais, makes the rounds again...OK.. OK.. you put it out there... no worries... no worries, you don't have to do anything... you paid off your 

people.. How much will it cost to process....the assessment test of the students.... what any ...  aummm  "I" knows... CERFL... hmmm another good one, mis-used... hint we know already..  invest in teacher training... less study tours for the good education professionals.

 

A start...

 

 

 

[michaellee]

1 hour ago, lostinisaan said:

 

 

     A mate in Ubon would love to teach some hours a week, but schools are not interested in getting him a work permit. 

 

        He's from London and would be an asset to most schools. 

 

   But they are ignorant and blind. 

yes, I'm Asian Canadian they say I'm not a native speakers, I've been in Canada almost 30 years and was speaking english way before I migrated.  I told them well, your teacher can't even compose a sentence and everyday common vocab, so don't tell me I'm not good enough. 

[nuakmuaynina]

When i was staying in Nakhon Si Thammarat I was shocked by the education system and lack of resources,  my ex's friends little boy was doing his homework on some sheets of paper, because they had no money for books. I gave him and english/thai dictionary and it was the first book the family owned.  The whole education system needs to be overhauled.  Not just English teaching.  

[NativeSon360]

6 minutes ago, michaellee said:

HAHAHAHA!!! This is very funny.  I did two classes and the Thai students are hopeless, they don't pay attention ,they think Thai language is the Master of all languages, they are not interested have no passion in learning another language, even basic english words I ask them what is "Breakfast"? seriously they replied MAI ROO for grade 4. 

No! It's not funny. And you are a poor excuse of an educator for having made that comment. Shame on you!

[michaellee]

2 hours ago, MrMuddle said:

There is a huge, untapped, resource of ex-pat talent that the authorities here refuse to use. I am retired, have qualifications in teaching English to speakers of other languages, (ESOL), yet I can't do any work here to help people learn English !
I would willingly give up a few hours a day, for a reasonable rate of pay, (and it would be nice if this made the visa process easier), but they don't want to know.

Yes, but you wasting your time as they think they can do better.

[michaellee]

7 minutes ago, nuakmuaynina said:

When i was staying in Nakhon Si Thammarat I was shocked by the education system and lack of resources,  my ex's friends little boy was doing his homework on some sheets of paper, because they had no money for books. I gave him and english/thai dictionary and it was the first book the family owned.  The whole education system needs to be overhauled.  Not just English teaching.  

Me too, I was in Thung Song, the freaking school director didn't speak a word of English and tried to make me teach 3 straight classes without a break, grade 6 had no books or any clue of daily english vocabulary. I stayed 1 day and walked out. It's supposed to be a private school ripping off the family. I pity them all!!

[michaellee]

34 minutes ago, djayz said:

How many more programs are they going to embark on????

They can implement 100 programs, if they are not interested you can waste your time standing whole 7 hours a day, once the bell ring, it's gone from their head.

[NativeSon360]

8 minutes ago, michaellee said:

yes, I'm Asian Canadian they say I'm not a native speakers, I've been in Canada almost 30 years and was speaking english way before I migrated.  I told them well, your teacher can't even compose a sentence and everyday common vocab, so don't tell me I'm not good enough. 

So why not just lie, and tell those idiots that you were "born in Canada", especially since your honestly is (apparently) "counter-productive", eh? Now, go get the job, and best wishes. Cheers!

[kaorop]

I've met (and worked with)  a few very very good Thai English speakers (teachers) who in no way would they leave their enclave of "added benefits" employment. Why would they take a massive "pay" cut? No one else would.

[NativeSon360]

Everyone, please keep in mind, that the average Thai person does not need to speak English, in order to maintain a "respectable" lifestyle in Thailand. That's an non-disputable fact!

Edited August 31, 2016 by NativeSon360

[DavisH]

6 hours ago, Squeegee said:

The stupid claim of "Within 10 years" shows how ridiculous these Thai tongue waggers are.

 

Hopefully most native English teachers have moved on from Thailand already so the Thais get a reality check.

A lot have already moved on. Most positions are not filed with backpacker native speakers on a  gap year or non-native speakers.  It's not easy to get well qualified and experienced native speaker teachers for the salaries currently on offer.

 

If the government is serious, they need to get native speakers / good non-natives to teach anuban students for at least 6 periods a week. Forget any changes to high school. Start at the bottom. That's when kids learn fastest. I can have a basic conversation with the new P1 students after they have learned english for 3 years in an english program. 

[stereolab]

5 hours ago, lostinisaan said:

"We picked 350 teachers who are considered to be the cream of the crop for English boot camp training," said the official.

 

From there, the best 28 teachers will be chosen as master trainers and will be spread out around the country to 18 English-teaching facilities where school administrators and educators in the nearby area can receive training from the centers.

 

The millions of tourists who visit Thailand each year usually face little difficulty in communicating because they mostly interact with hotel staff, salespeople in malls and markets, and other tourism-related staff who would have learned the language on the job

 

It's not just the lack of good English speaking Thai teachers that makes the whole system to a big joke.

 

  So, 28 Super teachers will finally change the whole system and will be "spread around" the country? 

 

   These people do not seem to know how it is to walk into a Thai classroom, even the grade one kids know that they can't fail.

 

   The two classes of grade six I've got for an hour a week, can't even write their names in English, they don't understand the easiest questions after "studying English" for more than five years......

 

 If there's a meeting at our school it's always conducted in Thai, nobody wants to lose face and that's where the problem is.

 

  How can teachers teach kids English if they can't even speak a few words in a meeting? 

 

  I know quite a lot of teachers who've got a Master's in English, but can't even understand very easy English. Our grade six teacher's using 95 % of Thai in her English lessons.

 

  After the CEFR dilemma where it turned out that most, or at least too many of them were under A 2 level, it was all in a sudden changed into successful and satisfying results? 

 

To understand what a CEFR A 2 level English is, it's about the level of a 6, or 7 year old native English speaking kid.

 

   Here's an article from last year where they thought it would "boost" the peoples' ability in English, but....

 

      https://asiancorrespondent.com/2015/04/thai-schools-adopt-european-framework-to-boost-english-language-proficiency/

 

    Even the little kids know that they'll come to the next grade and nobody fails. Would a foreign teacher really submit the grades the students deserve, the foreigner would be jobless.

 

     All students receive a minimum of at least 60 %, nobody fails and even students at high schools who never attended class, pass the final test.

 

    A classic example at a well -known high school in lower north east, when it turned out that too many grade 12 students failed their tests made by their foreign teachers and the ones from Bangkok.

 

    A one weekend "immersion camp" and all students had the right grades. I could go on and on and on, but that's not changing anything.

 

  Let the guys who want to become English teachers study abroad, they do come back and speak good English and they don't lose face anymore.

 

 Allow all students from grade one to 12 to ask their teachers questions if they don't understand a lesson. A teacher can't lose face by not knowing the right answer. 

 

Even Einstein made the statement : "I know that I know nothing.". Do Thais understand the meaning of the sentence? 

 

Let the students fail who think they can do what they want and let them repeat the school year and they'll change their attitude. 

 

  If  English teachers, including foreigners aren't able to score at least C 1 in a CEFR test, then don't let them teach English.

 

   If a flight attendant who usually speaks more than two languages has to have at least B +, how can a guy with a TOEIC under 600 be able to teach English? 

 

   But it seems that nobody really wants to know what's going on. Blame others for it. 

 

If they were really serious about teaching English, they should be training each and every teacher in the country how to speak, read and eventually how to teach English. Cherry picking a handful will simply not achieve the governments aim. 

   

 

      

 

      

 

     

 

 

 

   

 

   

 

 

[JIMJFOX]

Lived in Norway, Holland, Turkey, Spain, Australia, New Zealand. Thailand is nowhere near the levels of the first four. 

Their English is taught in primary school & continued until fluency is universal. 

Thai written language is a disaster, a pile of paperclips. 38 vowel sounds? Another disaster. NO country needs English

more than Thailand. As for learning Thai, who else uses it? NOBODY!! 

Charming- yes; useful? NO! 

[NativeSon360]

8 minutes ago, JIMJFOX said:

Lived in Norway, Holland, Turkey, Spain, Australia, New Zealand. Thailand is nowhere near the levels of the first four. 

Their English is taught in primary school & continued until fluency is universal. 

Thai written language is a disaster, a pile of paperclips. 38 vowel sounds? Another disaster. NO country needs English

more than Thailand. As for learning Thai, who else uses it? NOBODY!! 

Charming- yes; useful? NO! 

Again, please keep in mind, that the average Thai person does not need to speak English, in order to maintain a "respectable" lifestyle in Thailand. That's an non-disputable fact!

[nuakmuaynina]

45 minutes ago, michaellee said:

Me too, I was in Thung Song, the freaking school director didn't speak a word of English and tried to make me teach 3 straight classes without a break, grade 6 had no books or any clue of daily english vocabulary. I stayed 1 day and walked out. It's supposed to be a private school ripping off the family. I pity them all!!

 

The town I was actually in was Thung Song.... I went to the public school there, as my ex's dad used to sell fruit at lunch.  A group of students had juts come out of an english lesson, and the dad said to them to practise their english, they could only manage a hello, and how you? Nothing else. 

[kaorop]

4 minutes ago, NativeSon360 said:

No swipes. Just the facts. Apparently I definitely pushed your hot-button. If the shoe fits, etc. apparently applies.

 

FYI ~ I couldn't care less, how I "look" to anyone, except the moderators, on this forum.

 

Now, if I missed some important points, then contribute that to the topic thread, instead. Presuming you really do have something "substantial" to contribute, that is

just knew you'd be champing at the bit to reply, quite predictable and why i posted(thats a swipe)

that you dont see your swipes as swipes just shows how bent out of shape you are,. (another swipe)

i think you need "whats a swipe" lessons, (added emoti for more swipe effect)(more swipes)

plenty to contribute, sure, but why, so you can throw swipes, no thanks.

 

 

 

[Bender]

one of the main reason, company are moving their factories out of thailand is thai worker are not enough skilled.

So every 6 months they come with this rubbish statement, they will improve english literacy among thais.

[michaellee]

7 hours ago, oilinki said:

I'm curious how many hours do other non-English speaking countries teach English in primary and secondary schools? 

 

 

7 hours ago, Mook23 said:

Sufficient english:

 

One hundred baht. 

You.  Pay.  Bill. 

Short time?

Suhtoopid farang. 

 

 

Upto you, How mut you gib I? you want shot time or longg time? I not cae you hahah

[michaellee]

18 minutes ago, nuakmuaynina said:

 

The town I was actually in was Thung Song.... I went to the public school there, as my ex's dad used to sell fruit at lunch.  A group of students had juts come out of an english lesson, and the dad said to them to practise their english, they could only manage a hello, and how you? Nothing else. 

OMG!! are you still teaching there? Luckily I could speak decent Thai otherwise you on your own, none spoke english even at that Sunee plaza.

[worgeordie]

I might help if they had more English speaking programs on Thai TV,

with Thai Subs, instead of the inane crap they show now, as I believe

that's how people all over the World learn English, if they want too.

especially if the cannot afford English lessons,or they have no other

option to learn ,Tv and listening to BBC World Service is what they do

regards worgeordie

[Guest]

Let's break this education discussion to different parts.

 

1) How important is English and how much students should spend to learn it?

- English is currently the facto Esperanto. Spoken widely around the world and it acts as the language of sciences. Very important.

- Kinds have many things to learn. Spending 5% of the time learning English during the school years should be enough. There are many other languages to learn as well. 

2) What qualifies an teacher?

- IMHO, one with masters degree of pedagogy along with advanced studies of the specific subjects the person is going to teach.

- This means 4+ years of University studies, after 12 year basic education

- TELF etc. certifications allows native speakers to talk to the kids, it doesn't make them teachers

 

3) What kids should study during their primary and secondary stages?
- Kids should have basic knowledge of the world. How societies work, how biology, physics, chemistry works. Basic understanding of arts, maths and geometry. Knowledge of both local and world history. Not to forget the physical education - it should be mostly fun and games, to relax the mind.

 

4) How to get students to learn?

- Motivation is alway the key. One of the main objects for the teacher's is to get kids motivated. Kids are clever, but naturally lazy and they feel what is important for them and what is not. If the teacher fails to make the kids to feel, that his or hers subject is actually and in reality important for the kids future.. the teacher has failed the job. Kids will never really learn from such an teacher.

 

That's why the TELF teacher's should not be allowed to referred as 'foreign teachers', without proper pedagogic education. 

5) Is native speaker English teacher better than local teacher?
- I would say NO.  Local teacher, who really understands where the kids come from, their pattern of thinking and learning and what kind of challenges they are struggling with, as well as can quickly answer questions in Thai, is much better educator than a foreign teacher. Now go back to number 2 to see what I mean by local teacher. 

 

Edited August 31, 2016 by Guest

[JayBeeee]

7 hours ago, garyk said:

 Just saying some Thai's speak english very good.

 

Sorry! Couldn't help myself!

I just love irony!

[NativeSon360]

22 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Let's break this education discussion to different parts.

 

1) How important is English and how much students should spend to learn it?

- English is currently the facto Esperanto. Spoken widely around the world and it acts as the language of sciences. Very important.

- Kinds have many things to learn. Spending 5% of the time learning English during the school years should be enough. There are many other languages to learn as well. 

2) What qualifies an teacher?

- IMHO, one with masters degree of pedagogy + advanced studies of the specific subjects the person is going to teach.

- This means 4+ years of University studies, after 12 year basic education

- TELF etc. certifications allows native speakers to talk to the kids, it doesn't make them teachers

 

3) What kids should study during their primary and secondary stages?
- Kids should have basic knowledge of the world. How societies work, how biology, physics, chemistry works. Basic understanding of arts, maths and geometry. Knowledge of both local and world history. Not to forget the physical education - it should be mostly fun and games, to relax the mind.

 

4) How to get students to learn?

- Motivation is alway the key. One of the main objects for the teacher's is to get kids motivated. Kids are clever, but naturally lazy and they feel what is important for them and what is not. If the teacher fails to make the kids to feel, that his or hers subject is actually and in reality important for the kids future.. the teacher has failed the job. Kids will never really learn from such an teacher.

 

That's why the TELF teacher's should not be allowed to referred as 'foreign teachers', without proper pedagogic education. 

5) Is native speaker English teacher better than local teacher?
- I would say NO.  Local teacher, who really understands where the kids come from, their pattern of thinking and learning and what kind of challenges they are struggling with, as well as can quickly answer questions in Thai, is much better educator than a foreign teacher. Now go back to number 2 to see what I mean by local teacher. 

 

Your points are well-made, and I totally agree with all of them. However,  English is important only to those Thai people who's personal horizons extend beyond the flat-world of Thailand.

As previously stated, the average Thai does not need to speak one syllable of English, to successfully develop, and then maintain a "respectable" lifestyle, in The Kingdom of Thailand .

Edited August 31, 2016 by NativeSon360

[nuakmuaynina]

34 minutes ago, michaellee said:

OMG!! are you still teaching there? Luckily I could speak decent Thai otherwise you on your own, none spoke english even at that Sunee plaza.

I wasnt teaching there, was visiting my soon to be ex husbands family, I speak a bit of thai yes, but I find the southern accent very hard to work out sometimes! no one spoke English at all, was an interesting place...I was quite the novelty..

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, NativeSon360 said:

Your points are well-made, and I totally agree with all of them. However,  English is important only to those Thai people who's personal horizons extend beyond the flat-world of Thailand.

As previously stated, the average Thai does not need to speak one syllable of English, to successfully develop, and then maintain a "respectable" lifestyle, in The Kingdom of Thailand .

I think you are referring to the story of Mexican Fisherman and CEO of a big company. 
http://bemorewithless.com/the-story-of-the-mexican-fisherman/

I have been stopped to think that question myself while traveling through SAE. Is there a real reason to go beyond the home village? I don't really know. 
 

However I do remember the urge to make computer code, while I was traveling and working as a divemaster in the paradise (Honduras 2001). The "what is here; is picture perfect" was just not enough to fill the need. 

We all have been altered by our cultures; and have been altered again by the new cultures we have encountered during our voyages. 

The curiosity to learn more is, in my opinion, the reason to go forward. For most of the people, who don't speak English as native language, learning English becomes the key to open doors; to open the doors to the wide world of other's knowledge. 

That's the reason, why English should be taught to the kids around the world, today. That's also the reason why French was taught some 100 years back and Mandarin is likely to be taught in the future. 

 

Edited August 31, 2016 by Guest

[JayBeeee]

7 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I was in Sweden last year.  Front desk clerk spoke great English, with a British accent.  The other spoke great English with an American accent.  Why?  One watched British TV, the other American TV.  There are no English language shows on here that don't have subtitles.

 

I met a Thai English teacher several years ago.  I could barely understand her.  And she's teaching English!

I'm from England and I've had real problems understanding a number of the English teachers I've met. I can't imagine what Thai kids make of them.

I got talking to a guy from Northern Ireland in a bar on a visit to Chiang Rai a while back. His accent was so strong I must have missed 75% of what he said. What I did understand, though I thought I must have misheard it, was that he taught business English at the nearby university.

[Craig krup]

It's really simple, and it doesn't cost a bean. Pick a year and just teach all the kids Thai using the Roman/western alphabet. They already have an approved dictionary. The kids will learn how to say "it's okay, it doesn't matter", and they'll learn to spell it Maiphenrai. No massive alphabet, no complex shapes and all the "ah, buh, cuh, duh, eh" learned just the way the English speakers do - synthetic phonics for the forty sounds, and the subtle little nuances will live in the spoken language just as they do in every other language. Nobody but nobody requires every single aspect of pronunciation to be represented in the alphabet and the words themselves, which is what Thai currently provides. It's as if the international phonetic alphabet was used to express English words. Nobody uses the international phonetic version in dictionaries to say English words - people learn naturally through usage, and even ESOL students learn in spoken English classes. 

 

Make the big switch. Abandon the present alphabet and all your problems are solved. It'll never happen, though. As John Stuart Mill said, in the orient tradition is the iron rule. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by Craig krup
Typos

[NativeSon360]

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

I think you are referring to the story of Mexican Fisherman and CEO of a big company. 
http://bemorewithless.com/the-story-of-the-mexican-fisherman/

I have been stopped to think that question myself while traveling through SAE. Is there a real reason to go beyond the home village? I don't really know. 
 

However I do remember the urge to make computer code, while I was traveling and working as a divemaster in the paradise (Honduras 2001). The "what is here; is picture perfect" was just not enough to fill the need. 

We all have been altered by our cultures; and have been altered again by the new cultures we have encountered during our voyages. 

The curiosity to learn more is, in my opinion, the reason to go forward. For most of the people, who don't speak English as native language, learning English becomes the key to open doors; to open the doors to the wide world of other's knowledge. 

That's the reason, why English should be taught to the kids around the world, today. That's also the reason why French was taught some 100 years back and Mandarin is likely to be taught in the future. 

 

The ability to discernibly communicate in a second language is never actually taught. It is simply the acquisition of language skills, gained through the phenomenon of environmental exposure, and the development of language proficiency, by means of a process known as "automaticity".  Automaticity is metaphorically akin to gradual step-by-step process of moving oneself from the shallowest, to the deepest end of the swimming pool, during the learning "how to swim" process.

 

On a per capita basis, Thailand has more educational TV channels, more available (low-cost) general education facilities and institutions, per square kilometer, that all the other SE Asia nations combined. Now, ignorance ( generally) may well be considered as a blissful state of being, but in the Kingdom of Thailand, it is certainly not an excusable state of being.

 

Thai people, who sincerely want to learn, manage to get an excellent "Global Citizen" level education, regardless the size of their bank account. I have middle-income Thai neighbors, of whom are testimonial proofs of those facts.. 

 

Thus the designated title English language "teacher, rather than English language "facilitator" is a misnomer. indeed!

Edited August 31, 2016 by NativeSon360

[NativeSon360]

51 minutes ago, Craig krup said:

It's really simple, and it doesn't cost a bean. Pick a year and just teach all the kids Thai using the Roman/western alphabet. They already have an approved dictionary. The kids will learn how to say "it's okay, it doesn't matter", and they'll learn to spell it Maiphenrai. No massive alphabet, no complex shapes and all the "ah, buh, cuh, duh, eh" learned just the way the English speakers do - synthetic phonics for the forty sounds, and the subtle little nuances will live in the spoken language just as they do in every other language. Nobody but nobody requires every single aspect of pronunciation to be represented in the alphabet and the words themselves, which is what Thai currently provides. It's as if the international phonetic alphabet was used to express English words. Nobody uses the international phonetic version in dictionaries to say English words - people learn naturally through usage, and even ESOL students learn in spoken English classes. 

 

Make the big switch. Abandon the present alphabet and all your problems are solved. It'll never happen, though. As John Stuart Mill said, in the orient tradition is the iron rule. 

Ditto! That nail was squarely hit on the head by Craig.

Edited August 31, 2016 by NativeSon360