Thailand embarks on program to ensure citizens speak English

[timewilltell]

17 hours ago, garyk said:

Was on a Tuk-tuk the other day,  i speak a little Thai. I asked the driver what the route was. And a young girl that spoke perfect english answered me. I was floored. She told me she was an english teacher in Chiang Mai university and was just given a scholarship in linguistics. And was getting ready to leave the country. Needless to say a first for me. Ran across another english teacher in Lopburi that spoke extremely good english. Just saying some Thai's speak english very good.

And some Thais speak Englisb very well.

[mesterm]

18 hours ago, garyk said:

Was on a Tuk-tuk the other day,  i speak a little Thai. I asked the driver what the route was. And a young girl that spoke perfect english answered me. I was floored. She told me she was an english teacher in Chiang Mai university and was just given a scholarship in linguistics. And was getting ready to leave the country. Needless to say a first for me. Ran across another english teacher in Lopburi that spoke extremely good english. Just saying some Thai's speak english very good.

 

Wait. Was she the driver or was she on the same tuk tuk as you?

[timewilltell]

I am beginning to think that everything that comes out of this country is just a lie and cover up for something more sinister. Yesterday I saw a sign said 'Teansparent Thailand' issued by the Anti-Corruption department having just left court. In court I was repeatedly told taping, phones and photographs not allowed. Journalists are not allowed to report either. WHY? 

 

Politicians, police and local government offixers drive around in fancy cars with fancy houses. Some have multi million share accounts all on 25,000 baht a month but no one can ask how cone and no one investigates unless it is the politician in power going after a rical. Why?

 

Lawyers, accountants and other 'professionals' and business people, well anyone really, can lie, cheat and deceive and no one can say a word because its defamation- why?

 

Therd is no transparancy anywhere in Thailand. Everything is a cover up for the obvious ignorance, corruption and lack of skill because Thais just cannot face the reality that they are so far behind everyone else.  Much of this attitude, I believe, comes from the hours spent learning the twisted Thai history and nationalistic brainwashing that happens in school every morning and everywhere around all the time. 

 

Thais do not think they need English. They cannot be bothered to learn because they think they are superior and are too full of themselves and anyway they will pass even if the extent of 10 years of learning English is the response 'I am fine. And you?'

 

Thai teachers are often woefully hopeless but no one can question - why?

 

The problem is as much to do with the Thai ignorant, egotistical mindset born of nationalistic brainwashing than it is with incompetence in teaching and ill founded educational frameworks.

 

Thais have a wealth of people willing to help out in the expat community but they would rather create immigration rules that encourage chasing them for work permit violations and persecute them with insane rules. So who wants to put themself at risk to help. Of course mindset is Thais can teach English very well and don't need the native speaker to help and believing this falsehood then cover up every manusfestion of that lie just as they  cover up everything else.

 

And if it is not obvious that 28 master teachers are not enough to teach the other teachers acriss the country, nor likely skilled enough in either English or adult education of the teachers to go out and do the job, then what hope is there 

 

Like every other scheme they come up with the intent is more likely a front for corruption and access to rip off public funds. The joke is the people coming up with these schemes cannot even be bothered to promote something plausible because they are lazy and it really doesn't matter because no one is allowed to question anyway.

 

 

[Just1Voice]

Neighbours' daughter, and her husband, both have Master's in English from Chula.  For me to have a conversation with them, I have to "dumb down" to what I would use with a 12 year old back in the U.S.

 

[metisdead]

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[louse1953]

19 hours ago, tonray said:

 

The article is incorrect. Students in government schools have at least 3 hours of English Instruction per week (Mattayom level). if they employ native English speakers, they provide 1 hour. There is usually 1 hour English Reading and 1 Hour English Grammar. Sometimes a writing class also. 

A lot of kids around me can read English.They need it to play games on phones.

[unclueng]

1 minute ago, Just1Voice said:

Neighbours' daughter, and her husband, both have Master's in English from Chula.  For me to have a conversation with them, I have to "dumb down" to what I would use with a 12 year old back in the U.S.

 

I bet they are superstars in grammar and structure.

[Scotwight]

3 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

Neighbours' daughter, and her husband, both have Master's in English from Chula.  For me to have a conversation with them, I have to "dumb down" to what I would use with a 12 year old back in the U.S.

 

Kind of like posting on Thai Visa.

[Plutojames88]

Thais I feel are misplaced getting their own to teach a language not native to them.

Extremely good Thai English speakers fail to understand phrases.

 

Example ...."" She had had that particular adverse reaction before to peanuts""

 

The teacher ended up teaching "" she had no liking before now to peanuts"" 

 

 

You can see how a person in Thailand with a peanut problem can easily die?

[Emster23]

I have a master's degree + 105 course hours beyond that in education. I am retired, have enough pension & savings so don't need the money. I would be happy to teach a light load at a local school for no pay. In fact, I would prefer no pay and see the papers showing that so that greater chance "funds" wouldn't be "skimmed". I enjoy teaching and interacting with young people. Would be a benefit to me and to the students.

 No can do. Innovation and creative problem solving (do they even know it is a problem?) not strong points here

[pauleddy]

I am more or less the same as Emster! I have just retired after teaching English at Unis in three countries over the past 24 years, being an IELTS examiner, doing Teacher Training and devising exams using CEFR. I have an MBA, an MA and some other tickets.

 

Joking about perpetual cycles aside, how do I become one of these "Super Teachers", or even become involved in a minor way? Contact the BC? I don't want to teach young kids.

 

Eddy

[silent]

19 hours ago, bronco said:

this talk has been going on for years, there have been a multitude of scams, the worst one I saw was the agencies coming into surin and a few other towns and that was a disaster.

the maximum age for an English teacher is to young, it stops retired teachers helping out

 

That is because firstly most of the decision makers aren't really motivated and secondly the ones that are think of English as study in arts and entertainment.

[Plutojames88]

1 minute ago, pauleddy said:

I am more or less the same as Emster! I have just retired after teaching English at Unis in three countries over the past 24 years, being an IELTS examiner, doing Teacher Training and devising exams using CEFR. I have an MBA, an MA and some other tickets.

 

Joking about perpetual cycles aside, how do I become one of these "Super Teachers", or even become involved in a minor way? Contact the BC? I don't want to teach young kids.

 

Eddy

You are farang ......keep away from Thai please

[debate101]

No one advances on merit, only through bribes and politics, and the defamation laws (which will not soon be changed) prevent people who are most affected by corruption in the education system (ie. taxpayers, students, parents, and non-corrupt teachers) from being able to report and fight against it. Until these things change, there is no hope for most students in the public system being able to learn English, or any other subject for that matter, in an effective way.

[HowardV]

Let’s be clear here: the goal is speaking English, not passing O-NET, GAT-PAT or college entrance exams.

 

So, we need to start with an understanding of how people acquire another language.

 

As I see it, this program is set up to fail because it is beginning with the premise that learning to speak English is something that can be taught, in the traditional sense.  Recruiting a bunch of excellent English teachers to train all of the other English teachers is based on the idea that fluency comes down to teaching methods.  But the fact is, people don’t actually acquire another language through direct teaching.  Just ask any four- or five-year-old how they learned to speak.  This is why, as one person mentioned, bar girls and hotel workers speak better English than highly educated prime ministers.  

 

Thais have English classes an hour a week, beginning in the first grade, increase that to three hours a week in seventh grade and by tenth grade, they are taking six hours a week of foreign language classes.  Yet no one ends up speaking English.

 

If those hours were used interacting and communicating, this “number of hours per week” approach might work.  But most teachers use the grammar-translation method – translating from English to Thai and learning grammar rules.  You might be able to read and translate a text using that method, but it will never get you speaking the language.  Speaking is what gets you speaking the language. 

 

Teachers need to be fluent in English and they need to use it to communicate.  That’s the real “teaching technique” needed.  The current government requirements for English standardized tests like TOEFL or TOEIC are 550 or 600. Set the bar much higher and make sure the speaking-listening portion of the tests are at least as high as the reading-writing portions.

 

Then you need to start using curriculum.  At present, there is no guarantee that a student moving from one school to another will study the same material.  Furthermore, most foreign teachers are allowed to run free, doing as they please, not following the curriculum or textbooks.  Most of them leave after three to six months, a year or two at best.  They don’t stay long enough to build continuity.  The next batch of foreigners coming in has no idea what the students have learned or what they can do, and they spend the first three months assessing students’ abilities while they try to figure out what to teach.  Soon they give up in frustration and move on.  There is no consistency.  Curriculum and learning standards would be one way to maintain consistency if they were used, but in every school I’ve ever seen, curriculum is looked upon as a requirement to operate.  Once they get their license or accreditation, the curriculum books are set on the shelf to collect dust until the next visit from the officials.

 

Students need consistency, and teachers need stability.  Making the visa application and work permit process easier, and educating school administrators and program directors in how to do this with clear examples and a checklist of all necessary documents is also a key to success.  Foreigners might stay longer if their experiences were more satisfactory.  As it is, they are in a high stress environment working for low pay with unfair expectations and insufficient support, all the while under the threat of being deported or fined.  Add to this the struggles they go through trying to navigate their way through the language and social settings, often with the feeling that basic human rights are granted to them as favors, and it’s no wonder that so many foreigners leave in a year or less, and those who do stay end up jaded and bitter.

 

So now the government has decided that the real answer is to get their own teachers teaching, but they still don’t know why the foreigners didn’t work out and why most of the population can’t speak English.  I say spend some time analyzing the causes of the problem before you offer solutions.

[anon467848]

By the time the Govt. gets around to achieving it's English literacy targets for Thais, there will be very few English speaking tourists coming to the Land of Smiles... The Europeans, Americans, Australasian's will have moved to pastures new. The Thais take tourism for granted. Once other SE Asian countries such as Vietnam, Myanmar, get their acts together, tourism is going to drop off big time... 

[dageurreotype]

19 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I read an article in an English newspaper that said 20% of British adults had the reading ability of 8 year old's, the worst in Europe, their inability was only surpassed by the USA so perhaps we shouldn't be too hard on the Thai's

 

20%? Absolute rubbish. Oh but you read it in a newspaper so it must be true. Duh.

[Baerboxer]

19 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I read an article in an English newspaper that said 20% of British adults had the reading ability of 8 year old's, the worst in Europe, their inability was only surpassed by the USA so perhaps we shouldn't be too hard on the Thai's

 

Do you have a link or copy of the article please?

 

[Rancid]

Look we all know it isn't going to happen, but I look on the bright side, the push is at least still for English rather than Chinese.

[masuk]

20 hours ago, ourmanflint said:

this never gets old!

 

 

Well done that man!!!

[anon467848]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Do you have a link or copy of the article please?

 

 

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/britain-named-worst-in-developed-world-for-literacy-so-yes-school-reform-is-needed/

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11704551/UK-school-leavers-the-worst-in-Europe-for-essential-skills-report-says.html

[dageurreotype]

3 hours ago, dieseldave1951 said:

judging by the rankings most countries allocate more hours, unless there is an element of don't want to learn falang language in students,

students that for years that have been told that westerners are here as second class will not suddenly feel he urge to communicate. 

ever noticed how the very young Thai kids look at westerners total beusement, i just wonder what teachings have to be over come first, 

  

 

Au contraire (pardon my French )  Almost everyone I meet wants to learn English as they see it will enhance their career prospects greatly. However, I'm on Phuket. Just up over the bridge in the boonies, I have witnessed an unwillingness to learn passa falung. I'm guessing that's where you are?

[pauleddy]

HowardV's response is right on the button!

 

The whole system is a struggle, and leads to gradual burn-out.

 

There are no really easy answers here. Thais (and Thai teachers) truly resent being coached by farangs. As I have said for years, there exist massive chips on shoulders. Thais are brought up thinking that Thailand is the centre of the universe and that everything Thai is the best, even the (sometimes lousy) food. This solipsism prevents progress. As often proclaimed, students who do an MSc in the UK or USA and then come back to LOS are much more friendly, keen and open-minded. I have seen this many times amongst my own students, over the years.

 

In mitigation---If I were living in my native UK for 20, 40 or 60 years, and then the government decreed that Portuguese had to be the lingua franca, with all children learning Portuguese and all business being conducted in that language, then I guess that I might be a bit resentful. Reminds me of the Welsh Nationalists 40 years ago, who attacked English signposts and even set fire to houses. Of course, it ain't gonna happen. Englishes are the way to go, so the Thais need to fall in line or heave out. In addition, a friend working in China's top uni discounts the old theory that everything will be in Mandarin within 30 years. That also ain't gonna happen, believe me. It's Englishes or take the high road, guys. Even the Vietnamese are queueing up to learn English (I was offered thirteen jobs in Hanoi last year), and there is none of this arrogant Thai nonsense, as far as I could make out.

 

Eddy

[Baerboxer]

16 minutes ago, merlin2002 said:

 

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/britain-named-worst-in-developed-world-for-literacy-so-yes-school-reform-is-needed/

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11704551/UK-school-leavers-the-worst-in-Europe-for-essential-skills-report-says.html

 

Thank you!

[dageurreotype]

I was recently speaking with a young Thai guy who'd attended 'university' on a part time course to learn graphic design. He'd told me he had one more year to go. He'd mentioned he would be having a test the next day. I asked to see his work as I'm interested in design. Not only did he not know how to use Photoshop (?????), essential for graphic design, there were also two glaring spelling mistakes he'd insisted were correct as his tutor told him they were - 'psyxhology' and 'theame'. When I'd pointed them out he'd said he couldn't question his teacher. 'This year's top colours' were two I'd recognised from their names - 5 years ago. All this, along with his very poor English comprehension, of which he was embarrassingly aware, ensures he has no hope, none,  and that four years will have been a complete and utter waste of his time. Shameful.

[yellowboat]

Once the junta took charge, did they not try to remove native English teachers from the class rooms ?  Thailand has the most silly sense of political correctness in SE Asia.  My patience is exhausted with Thailand. 

[Golden Triangle]

Whatever happened to the mobile phone app for learning English that our esteemed leader trumpeted quite a few months ago on his weekly making the people happy show ?

 

Looked for it, can't can't find it, maybe it's in Thai 

[Mook23]

The Burmese educational system for the last 50+ years was very poor as the junta spent most on the army...  The fact that Burma scores better in English is because the Burmese are interested in outer world,  watch foreign movies undubbed,   listen to voa and BBC,  etc.  The Burmese were not spoiled like the Thai... 

[Scotwight]

2 hours ago, Emster23 said:

I have a master's degree + 105 course hours beyond that in education. I am retired, have enough pension & savings so don't need the money. I would be happy to teach a light load at a local school for no pay. In fact, I would prefer no pay and see the papers showing that so that greater chance "funds" wouldn't be "skimmed". I enjoy teaching and interacting with young people. Would be a benefit to me and to the students.

 No can do. Innovation and creative problem solving (do they even know it is a problem?) not strong points here

Would you teach in 105 Fahrenheit temperature on the 4th floor (stairs only) a class of 50 unruly, discourteous violent children with head lice and other contagious diseases for an administration who actively does not like you; promulgates racist and xenophobic policies and participates in selling children to brothels?  If so you have a bright future in the Thai public school system.

[elgordo38]

WOW 28 master teachers. Rather reminds me of a phrase in the bible feeding the 5,000 with 2 loaves of bread and five fishes.