Thai attitude to foreigners: An all time low?

[Jools]

On 9/3/2559 at 5:44 AM, Balance said:

People forget that Thai social organization is first and foremost based on your status relative to the person with whom you are dealing.  This is ingrained and baked into the Thai language itself.  It has existed for hundreds of years.  It is a pecking order based on family standing and from that the circle of "important" people who can be counted on to intervene or provide help.  A few years ago a man was driving in back of a big bike and apparently he "got bored" so he simply ran over the bike and killed the rider.  The man got out of his Benz and started screaming about what his name was, what his father's name and then listed all of the important people he or someone knew.   Some said the reason for this was to intimidate any potential witnesses that saw what he did. 

 

The structure rolls downhill, and farang, no matter how much money they have, lays at the bottom of the hill.  Of course, this is an academic description that has been around a long time.  My experience is that when a farang interacts one-on-one it is the attitude or the Thai's perception that will govern.  It is complex and unless you are a fluent Thai speaker you will never understand it.  

 

[pattayadude]

if the country you were born, the country your forefathers fought for was a top sex tourism destination and a "good" percentage of the young girls were having sex for money for the last 40 years or more with mostly drunk men of all ages from almost all countries in the world, how would that effect on the attitudes of you,on each husband, each wife, each father, each mother, each brother and each sister towards the thousands of sex tourists that flock in&out of your city? Not an easy question to answer..is it!

[onemorechang]

6 minutes ago, pattayadude said:

if the country you were born, the country your forefathers fought for was a top sex tourism destination and a "good" percentage of the young girls were having sex for money for the last 40 years or more with mostly drunk men of all ages from almost all countries in the world, how would that effect on the attitudes of you,on each husband, each wife, each father, each mother, each brother and each sister towards the thousands of sex tourists that flock in&out of your city? Not an easy question to answer..is it!

 

Think you are being a bit naive about who is having sex with

prostitutes in Thailand on mass.

 

The locals are not jealous of who we have sex with

as  we are second in that line already.

 

Jealous about our wealth,   yes 100% 

remember money number 1

 

Edited September 14, 2016 by onemorechang

[pattayadude]

9 minutes ago, onemorechang said:

 

Think you are being a bit naive about who is having sex with

prostitutes in Thailand on mass.

 

The locals are not jealous of who we have sex with

as  we are second in that line already.

 

Jealous about our wealth,   yes 100% 

remember money number 1

 

I thought the title was "Thai attitude to foreigners:An all time low?"

even though you are right in your analogy, this isn't about Thai attitude towards Thai.

[tropo]

17 minutes ago, onemorechang said:

 

Think you are being a bit naive about who is having sex with

prostitutes in Thailand on mass.

 

The locals are not jealous of who we have sex with

as  we are second in that line already.

 

Jealous about our wealth,   yes 100% 

remember money number 1

 

That's not to mention that the Thais are mostly getting them for free while foreigners support them.

[Global Guy]

On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 5:11 PM, beachproperty said:

 Well, well, well......You prove my points

 

You're grumpy...even you say so

 

Also, as I said in my original post .....people experiencing diminishing Thai courteous  live in Tourist Areas....of Which Pattaya is the epicenter of the "worst of the worse". Thailand is a BIG country,  which Pattaya is only a small part.

 

You have to get out of Pattaya if you want to experience Thai hospitality and courteous. Then again some tourists may never experience it ,,,,as they are grumpy skinflint

I'm confused about how living in a tourist area gives employee license to be rude, lazy, and unfriendly to paying customers? Is there an employee manual that teaches staff this? Is this manual only distributed in stores located in areas with a certain foreigner demographic?

 

Because it reads more like blaming the victim for why staff are rude. Staff are paid to be friendly, helpful, and courteous to customers. As a customer, it's not my job to cheer the staff up or be in any certain mood myself. Nothing you said justifies their poor customer service behavior.

 

 

[pattayadude]

8 minutes ago, Global Guy said:

I'm confused about how living in a tourist area gives employee license to be rude, lazy, and unfriendly to paying customers? Is there an employee manual that teaches staff this? Is this manual only distributed in stores located in areas with a certain foreigner demographic?

 

Because it reads more like blaming the victim for why staff are rude. Staff are paid to be friendly, helpful, and courteous to customers. As a customer, it's not my job to cheer the staff up or be in any certain mood myself. Nothing you said justifies their poor customer service behavior.

 

 

this rude behavior problem actually is in  epic proportions  in pattaya. It is so bad that even US based big hamburger chains are being affected by this dilemma..You would think chains like that would have standards, employee manuals, training, daily pep talk before work and  customer service is better enforced by the managers but unfortunately it is not!...I ordered a big mac and fries deal and I was told that they were out of big macs.Surprised,  I politely asked her if she was sure that they ran out of their staple product(with a smile)..instead of answering me with a simple "yes", she went on blabbering loudly in Thai to her co workers with strange anger, frustration and even a level of rage and seeing her negative facial expression, I could tell she was at her "boiling point"...what a rage! why???...and this is not an isolated case by the way! this happens at least once or twice a day at different venues to me, to my friends and many others that I know.

[tropo]

Yesterday I went up to the Pattaya Hill Lookout to buy some cold coconuts from a vendor I've bought from many times over the last 5 years. I was with my wife. One of the coconuts was off - it had mold underneath and was leaking from the bottom when she handed it to me. It had obviously been sitting in the ice water too long. I calmly pointed the problem out to her, expecting her to change it for a good one, and she got angry and started shouting at my wife in Thai (fortunately we don't understand Thai) and then went to get the 40 baht I paid for it and threw it at me. I have no idea what she said, but it was another good example of the level of Thai hospitality we've become accustomed to. I should mention that she didn't know my wife not Thai and she didn't speak.

 

This is one of the busiest tourist areas in Pattaya.

 

Welcome to Thailand, the Land of Smiles.

Edited September 19, 2016 by tropo

[pattayadude]

8 hours ago, tropo said:

I have no idea what she said

you probably wouldn't want to know..I frequently come across this sort of rage and anger in various 7-elevens,beer bars and mom&pop stores.. In the Philippines or latin american countries that I  frequently visited during the last 15 years, these sort of things hardly ever happen. I just can't figure out the source of the anger in Pattaya..One thing I noticed though, most doesn't have any sense of humor and generally no tolerance to any friendly joke.

Edited September 20, 2016 by pattayadude

[morrobay]

Yes the attitude is for sure going downhill. So the next question ^ is why. What is the source of their anger,? What is their problem !

Interesting that you did not notice this in Philippines and  Latin american countries.   

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

1 hour ago, pattayadude said:

you probably wouldn't want to know..I frequently come across this sort of rage and anger in various 7-elevens,beer bars and mom&pop stores.. In the Philippines or latin american countries that I  frequently visited during the last 15 years, these sort of things hardly ever happen. I just can't figure out the source of the anger in Pattaya..One thing I noticed though, most doesn't have any sense of humor and generally no tolerance to any friendly joke.

 

If you wore a loud, striped vest over a flowered shirt, giant goggles, and a flower on a stem planted on top of your head, they would laugh then. Sad but true.

 

The lack of friendly contact is one of the great detractions of living here. While my current neighbourhood has its friendly folks, I find I've had to go the extra mile just to get anything resembling a civil, polite transaction completed.  I find it somewhat exhausting having to step up my game when entering an office or shop. Here it's just plain work and I'm pretty tired of it. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by Kaoboi Bebobp

[pattayadude]

1 minute ago, morrobay said:

Yes the attitude is for sure going downhill. So the next question ^ is why. What is the source of their anger,? What is their problem !

Interesting that you did not notice this in Philippines and  Latin american countries.   

" Thai people  like to save face, and getting angry in public shows a lot of disrespect and will make you look like the bad guy"

I am sure many of us have come across this overused phrase "saving face"

I believe the problem has a lot to do with this.

Just like what "honor" is in many middle eastern countries (that are notorious with "honor killings"). In some societies where everybody buds in everybody's business, protection of honor(saving face) is probably as important as staying alive.

 

It's a cultural thing and to understand it, you need to be Thai(I guess)

[pattayadude]

19 minutes ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

 

If you wore a loud, striped vest over a flowered shirt, giant goggles, and a flower on a stem planted on top of your head, they would laugh then. Sad but true.

 

The lack of friendly contact is one of the great detractions of living here. While my current neighbourhood has its friendly folks, I find I've had to go the extra mile just to get anything resembling a civil, polite transaction completed.  I find it somewhat exhausting having to step up my game when entering an office or shop. Here it's just plain work and I'm pretty tired of it. 

haha I hear you brother!..this is something that bothered me the most in my first a few years living in LOS..but in my case, after a couple of trips to Colombia, I knew where I would spend most of my retired years and that is exactly what I do at the time being.I now only visit pats once a year between my twice-a-year Philippines visits

Edited September 20, 2016 by pattayadude

[neeray]

Face !!! And "saving face", OMG. 

This has been a tuff cultural aspect for me to get a grip on. 

But I as sure as hell have come to understand that it exists, though I will never understand why. 

[pattayadude]

10 minutes ago, neeray said:

Face !!! And "saving face", OMG. 

This has been a tuff cultural aspect for me to get a grip on. 

But I as sure as hell have come to understand that it exists, though I will never understand why. 

hard to understand this double-standard on all-important saving face for the same people who surprisingly perceive prostitution simply "helping family"

[bamukloy]

27 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Yes the attitude is for sure going downhill. So the next question ^ is why. What is the source of their anger,? What is their problem !

Interesting that you did not notice this in Philippines and  Latin american countries.   

 

I think the why? is pretty obvious.

 

Tourism is at  a majour low. Many of the regulars from certain countries have gone, or are not staying as long as they used to.

 

Also many tourists who would of bounced to Lao for a DE visa are now going home for a METV.

Probably a good deal of those have decided Thailand isnt the dream destination it once was, and are staying home or going elsewhere.

 

In also guessing the  tourists who are here have less disposable income nowadays, and are not throwing money  around as flippantly as  they used to.

Certainly they are more clued in on how to save a baht (airb&b and the like) and are becoming aware of all the tricks,

Many Thais relying on tourism for income havent the luxury of the  safe weekly wages or the same comfy salary every week that we get, or even any real social security for that matter.

This puts real stress on them..JUST to survive. 

And its that stress you are seeing.

 

Many of us should think again (myself included) when we start up with the "Rude/Greedy Thai" thing.

 

Many are doing it a lot tougher than we ever had to. 

[onemorechang]

14 minutes ago, bamukloy said:

 

Many of us should think again (myself included) when we start up with the "Rude/Greedy Thai" thing.

 

Many are doing it a lot tougher than we ever had to. 

 

Quite frankly they can suck it up.

They bite the hand of the golden goose.

now they can have the new wave of big spenders.

Chinese and Indians.

 

Work hard,    they dont know the meaning of it

in this town.

Amazing Pattaya.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by onemorechang

[Global Guy]

20 minutes ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

Is it just coincidence that the common factor in all your negative interactions with Thais is you?

 

No, it's NOT just him, thus the many people here and around Thailand saying the same things. I used to think that learning at least some basic daily use Thai language would help out in social interactions here and 15+ years ago, it seemed to work. Now, it doesn't really matter.

 

So, I gave up remembering, learning, speaking Thai. I get the same lousy attitude whether I put on a big smile, speak Thai, and am patient or if I just speak English and point at things I want (if at a store). I'm out everyday at stores, food stalls/shops/restaurants, markets so it's not an isolated incident. Of course it's not every person. But where before this behavior was almost non-existent, it's now a daily occurrence.

 

My Thai gf comments on the attitudes all the time which really solidifies it for me. You know Thais won't insult other Thais as quickly as we do.

 

I've lowered my expectations so low that all I expect them is to have a heartbeat and yet they still seem to sink to new lows all the time.

I could write a book about the daily interactions. I stopped trying to bend over backwards to be nice to people who are rude to me. The thing is, no one cares and it will only get worse. The companies don't care, the managers don't care, the staff don't care. So I don't care.

[pattayadude]

48 minutes ago, bamukloy said:

 

I think the why? is pretty obvious.

 

Tourism is at  a majour low. Many of the regulars from certain countries have gone, or are not staying as long as they used to.

 

Also many tourists who would of bounced to Lao for a DE visa are now going home for a METV.

Probably a good deal of those have decided Thailand isnt the dream destination it once was, and are staying home or going elsewhere.

 

In also guessing the  tourists who are here have less disposable income nowadays, and are not throwing money  around as flippantly as  they used to.

Certainly they are more clued in on how to save a baht (airb&b and the like) and are becoming aware of all the tricks,

Many Thais relying on tourism for income havent the luxury of the  safe weekly wages or the same comfy salary every week that we get, or even any real social security for that matter.

This puts real stress on them..JUST to survive. 

And its that stress you are seeing.

 

Many of us should think again (myself included) when we start up with the "Rude/Greedy Thai" thing.

 

Many are doing it a lot tougher than we ever had to. 

you are dead on!Good points..when the going gets tough, i realize the stress they feel rises but that in no way should give them the license to almost "butcher" whoever comes across.

Just like how most of us learned to say " kap kun khap" and " sa wa dee khap, the least I personally expect is a smile in return in the land of smiles and not the "what the hell are you doing in my country" look.

If not, pretty soon the local small businesses are gonna close down one by one and the rest of the LOS  (Land Of Scowls)will suffer from the "butterfly effect"

[Seizetheday]

29 minutes ago, pattayadude said:

 

If not, pretty soon the local small businesses are gonna close down one by one and the rest of the LOS  (Land Of Scowls)will suffer from the "butterfly effect"

Don't write that, you'll have the real estate brigade back telling everyone how well Pattaya is going

[OMGImInPattaya]

2 hours ago, Global Guy said:

 

No, it's NOT just him, thus the many people here and around Thailand saying the same things. I used to think that learning at least some basic daily use Thai language would help out in social interactions here and 15+ years ago, it seemed to work. Now, it doesn't really matter.

 

So, I gave up remembering, learning, speaking Thai. I get the same lousy attitude whether I put on a big smile, speak Thai, and am patient or if I just speak English and point at things I want (if at a store). I'm out everyday at stores, food stalls/shops/restaurants, markets so it's not an isolated incident. Of course it's not every person. But where before this behavior was almost non-existent, it's now a daily occurrence.

 

My Thai gf comments on the attitudes all the time which really solidifies it for me. You know Thais won't insult other Thais as quickly as we do.

 

I've lowered my expectations so low that all I expect them is to have a heartbeat and yet they still seem to sink to new lows all the time.

I could write a book about the daily interactions. I stopped trying to bend over backwards to be nice to people who are rude to me. The thing is, no one cares and it will only get worse. The companies don't care, the managers don't care, the staff don't care. So I don't care.

I can just say your experience, and that of the "many people" you claim receive rude customer service, has not been my experience. In 15 years in Thailand, I haven't experienced any noticeable decline in service standads. There is the occasional frustration due to language difficulties but that's not their fault. 

 

Of course, I have almost no interactions with stressed out street-food vendors, baht-bus drivers, jaded sex-workers, or Thai market vendors, living the "uphill" lifestyle that I do, so my experiences may be different that those making all these complaints.

[Global Guy]

5 minutes ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

I can just say your experience, and that of the "many people" you claim receive rude customer service, has not been my experience. In 15 years in Thailand, I haven't experienced any noticeable decline in service standads. There is the occasional frustration due to language difficulties but that's not their fault. 

 

Of course, I have almost no interactions with stressed out street-food vendors, baht-bus drivers, jaded sex-workers, or Thai market vendors, living the "uphill" lifestyle that I do, so my experiences may be different that those making all these complaints.

Ah, well, good point. I hear ya. Living in a bubble certainly helps. But I don't use the baht-bus or go to the entertainment areas, use taxis, or rent jet skis.

 

I do leave my place a couple times each day for food, exercise, and the beach so interacting with people is part of daily life for me. I couldn't stay cooped up all the time. I'm not sure what an "uphill" lifestyle is or if that was sarcasm. Plus, I don't live in Pattaya. I was talking about Thailand in general.

 

Again, I'm just commenting on a trend, not an absolute, in a number of cities I've lived and traveled in and in chatting with people. You say you've never experienced this in the uphill place.....that's fortunate and I wish we had your luck. Sounds like a magical kingdom! Say hi to Mickey and Minnie for me.

[Global Guy]

On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 3:45 PM, pattayadude said:

if the country you were born, the country your forefathers fought for was a top sex tourism destination and a "good" percentage of the young girls were having sex for money for the last 40 years or more with mostly drunk men of all ages from almost all countries in the world, how would that effect on the attitudes of you,on each husband, each wife, each father, each mother, each brother and each sister towards the thousands of sex tourists that flock in&out of your city? Not an easy question to answer..is it!

 

Then how do you explain that 95% of the prostitution in Thailand is between a Thai man and Thai girl? Do they have the same disdain for each other as they do for expats since far more of it occurs with their own ethnicity?

[pattayadude]

17 minutes ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

There is the occasional frustration due to language difficulties but that's not their fault

language difficulties are in fact hourly and not occasional as you put it..Simple errands because of that easily become major tasks.

Big banks don't even have decent English speaking tellers!.as a matter of fact many do not even have any.Simple transactions take longer bec. of the language barrier.

many times when I ask a teller a simple question like "what is the savings account interest rate", all she does is stare at me as if I asked an 8 year old what is her opinion on the parallel universe.

As far as "not being their fault"... it's common sense that if a  business owner/bank employee/retail store salesperson in a tourist zone like Pattaya doesn't try to learn some English or the company doesn't select the right people who have at least some  language skills, that business will never generate 100% of what it is supposed to! and well..that's their business!..I don't care if they don't

 

 

[bamukloy]

 

The language barrier has always been there.

Tourist areas have always attracted that type of Thai riff-raff...

the ones that arent really capable of earning a normal living elsewhere.

"Look at that farang, doesnt have to work, has all the money he wants, has a life of liesure, can drink beer all day and shag all our women...."

With this kind of mentality of course they are gonna be envious of the farang.

 

For whatever pull your area has..beach, bars, fellow farangs, restaurants, girls or whatever,

its just not worth it if your gonna let them wind you up that much.

Maybe find a more friendly spot.

 

Chaing mai or suburban Bangkok seems like a haven compared to what you are describing.

 

You'll still get the same crappy service at banks and whatnot, but maybe your expectations wont be so high, seeing how its not a tourist area

[Global Guy]

52 minutes ago, pattayadude said:

language difficulties are in fact hourly and not occasional as you put it..Simple errands because of that easily become major tasks.

Big banks don't even have decent English speaking tellers!.as a matter of fact many do not even have any.Simple transactions take longer bec. of the language barrier.

many times when I ask a teller a simple question like "what is the savings account interest rate", all she does is stare at me as if I asked an 8 year old what is her opinion on the parallel universe.

As far as "not being their fault"... it's common sense that if a  business owner/bank employee/retail store salesperson in a tourist zone like Pattaya doesn't try to learn some English or the company doesn't select the right people who have at least some  language skills, that business will never generate 100% of what it is supposed to! and well..that's their business!..I don't care if they don't

 

 

 

That kind of shows you the mentality of business people. Kind of like hiring a lifeguard that doesn't know how to swim. But they would rather lose 10-50% of potential profits than hire real English speaking staff. I noticed far, far less business people in the Pattaya area speak English than comparable business people in Bangkok. I had similar experiences at two Jomtien banks and I had my Thai gf with me to translate. Asking detailed questions about their investment products was too much for them so we left without doing business at either of them.

[Rc2702]

26 minutes ago, Global Guy said:

 

That kind of shows you the mentality of business people. Kind of like hiring a lifeguard that doesn't know how to swim. But they would rather lose 10-50% of potential profits than hire real English speaking staff. I noticed far, far less business people in the Pattaya area speak English than comparable business people in Bangkok. I had similar experiences at two Jomtien banks and I had my Thai gf with me to translate. Asking detailed questions about their investment products was too much for them so we left without doing business at either of them.

Quick question. Is your thai gf able to fully translate upto the level you require to understand? Please advise some responses or even questions you wished to learn about?

[Global Guy]

4 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

Quick question. Is your thai gf able to fully translate upto the level you require to understand? Please advise some responses or even questions you wished to learn about?

 

My gf is an exec at an engineering company, has a uni degree, and speaks English fluently. It's not her. The Thai staff even confused her.

 

I was asking about different fixed income and other products they offered. I don't remember the exact financial instruments I wanted info on. I invest in various asset classes and I wanted to move some of my money here. I moved the money elsewhere.

[pattayadude]

44 minutes ago, Global Guy said:

 

That kind of shows you the mentality of business people. Kind of like hiring a lifeguard that doesn't know how to swim. But they would rather lose 10-50% of potential profits than hire real English speaking staff. I noticed far, far less business people in the Pattaya area speak English than comparable business people in Bangkok. I had similar experiences at two Jomtien banks and I had my Thai gf with me to translate. Asking detailed questions about their investment products was too much for them so we left without doing business at either of them.

 

44 minutes ago, Global Guy said:

 

That kind of shows you the mentality of business people. Kind of like hiring a lifeguard that doesn't know how to swim. But they would rather lose 10-50% of potential profits than hire real English speaking staff. I noticed far, far less business people in the Pattaya area speak English than comparable business people in Bangkok. I had similar experiences at two Jomtien banks and I had my Thai gf with me to translate. Asking detailed questions about their investment products was too much for them so we left without doing business at either of them.

Once a gf(35yo) of mine told me  "at our school we were taught  that we are superior to other nations and races". if this is true they may view farang as inferior race and have no interest in learning English or other language for that matter IMO

[OMGImInPattaya]

3 hours ago, Global Guy said:

Ah, well, good point. I hear ya. Living in a bubble certainly helps. But I don't use the baht-bus or go to the entertainment areas, use taxis, or rent jet skis.

 

I do leave my place a couple times each day for food, exercise, and the beach so interacting with people is part of daily life for me. I couldn't stay cooped up all the time. I'm not sure what an "uphill" lifestyle is or if that was sarcasm. Plus, I don't live in Pattaya. I was talking about Thailand in general.

 

Again, I'm just commenting on a trend, not an absolute, in a number of cities I've lived and traveled in and in chatting with people. You say you've never experienced this in the uphill place.....that's fortunate and I wish we had your luck. Sounds like a magical kingdom! Say hi to Mickey and Minnie for me.

I didn't say things were always perfect but I haven't experienced a marked decline in service standards since I've been here. Usually its very courteous and helpful (or at least they try to be) and occasionally there is the rude or incompentent episode as there is in any country. From what some people describe, you'd think service staff were throwing food or goods at them...which maybe they are but I have yet to experience this.

 

I think most companies do make an effort in customer service (of course it's not at Western levels but they are making stides). In fact, just the other day at Starbucks, I got one of those special receipts with a code wherein if you answer a customer service questionaaire on their website you get a free beverage of your choice (that could be up to 100-150 baht or 3-4 dollars). Why would they be giving away free drinks if you answer a few questions if they didn't care about the customer experience in their stores.

 

I'll leave the rest of the thread to the generic Thai bashers, of which there seem to be so many on this forum. It's a mystery why these members even stay in Thailand (assuming they are even here and not keyboard expats) if they have to live through the horrors of daily life they like to describe around here.

 

PS: Even NY Pizza is getting in the customer service improvement act...as I note they offer a 5% discount on online orders if you give them suggestions on improving the web ordering experience or any other aspect of their operation. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya