blacklisted for life

[JackThompson]

On 9/10/2016 at 1:09 PM, philtrue said:

in the morning of December 2015 had just renew my retirement visa so plenty of time, bailed the same day 100,000.-thb, reported every month to the office of the general attorney in Phuket town but for the last report my bogus lawyer didn't show up.

 

Perhaps, he "was told" not to show up (if he knew what was good for his career) - not just a coincidence they decided that was the time to act?   That neighbor of yours must have good connections and/or money to throw around.

 

7 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Your story seems phony and fake.  Why won't you mention the name of your club or your wife's club or whatever it is? 

 

Maybe because he doesn't want to torpedo any chance of ever coming back here?  What possible good would it serve for him to do so? 

 

On 9/10/2016 at 1:09 PM, philtrue said:

I knew that i was blacklisted in Switzerland in Zurich airport not from the Thai airways agent but after calling the immigration in BKK.

 

Just to be sure - is this the only verification you have of the blacklist?  I am not saying this is incorrect - but worth a double-check for duration, etc.

 

On 9/11/2016 at 8:58 PM, philtrue said:

Again many thanks to the more and more interesting post. Yes when recovering my passport after landing in Switzerland then and only then i was able to look at the departure stamp, a small blue and a small red with the mention of my 3000.- thb fine. 

 

You could always post a scan of (only) those stamps, and someone here could translate it.  Alternatively, use a (good) translator in Cambodia.

 

It sounds like someone really, really, wanted to "get you" for some grudge - maybe something that would not be a "big deal" in another culture.  Or maybe you stumbled on to something shady they were doing, or they think you did.

 

Whoever decided to recommend a blacklist will be contacted in future proceedings.  You need to consider how much "they" are willing to spend to keep this up - or if they are satisfied with the damage-done. 

 

Another angle - try to find out what "faction" of local-power is involved, and if there is another competing faction which could be brought in to assist.  Start with finding a lawyer who represents the competing faction - or a "higher" faction.

 

Also, the sorts of people who would and could do this are generally involved in something that could become a 'scandal' if exposed.  This could provide either leverage to get what you need done or, at the very least, some bitter satisfaction.  In any case, you may need to get your loved-ones out of harm's way - denying them any leverage on that front.

 

Good Luck.

[stevenl]

13 hours ago, philtrue said:

Well lets not call it blacklisted and more diplomatic, "persona non grata" which is the relevant term for an unwanted alien. 

Information in the data base are not of what i did or not, just not allowed in the kingdom of Thailand.

I hope, dear stevenl that you learn from that.

First of all, you're reacting to a post I partly retracted earlier on. I do believe your story to be true, but also believe you're confused about the reasons.

 

Secondly, no, airlines do not have access to a blacklist register or persona non grata register.

[greenchair]

If you find out why you were blacklisted, your wife can make an appeal to the ombudsman on your behalf, based on humanitarian grounds because you have a daughter . The office of the ombudsman is located on the 3rd floor at the chang watana government complex. It's important that you calm down, because this is not going to be solved quickly. I am wondering about your neighbour, because my neighbour is trying to get me out of the country too. 

 

[swissie]

On 9/11/2016 at 3:30 PM, FritsSikkink said:

you own the place and was watching people working for you, this is supervising and needs a work permit.

THIS WOULD HAVE TO HIT FARANG ISAAN DWELLERS LIKE LIGHTNING:
- All of them supervise their Thai-Agri-Workers on a daily basis, without being in the possession of a Work Permit.
Buddha help them !
Cheers. 

[muzmurray]

6 hours ago, swissie said:

THIS WOULD HAVE TO HIT FARANG ISAAN DWELLERS LIKE LIGHTNING:
- All of them supervise their Thai-Agri-Workers on a daily basis, without being in the possession of a Work Permit.
Buddha help them !
Cheers. 

 

Nope, I live in Isaan and do not supervise any farm workers.

[dbrenn]

On 9/13/2016 at 2:44 AM, Maestro said:

Philtrue, from what you have posted I get the impression that you are a bit confused about your situation.

 

I suggest that at this point you should not waste money on trying to get your blacklisting removed. Instead, you should get a complete and accurate translation made by a professional translator -- ie not your old lawyer, wife, friends, etc -- of the court's judgement and of all entries in Thai language made in your passport since the day of you arrest. This will give you a better understanding of the reason for your arrest, trial and sentencing and for deportation and blacklisting.

 

From the translation you will probably also learn that you were given a limited period of time to appeal your sentence and as you apparently have not used that option there is now nothing you can do to overturn that ruling; you remain guilty as sentenced.

 

Then you can return to your plan of getting your blacklisting ended with an appeal to the Commissioner of the Thai Immigration Bureau, for example by citing humanitarian reasons, ie living with your Thai wife in Thailand. The Swiss embassy has a list of lawyers on its website from which to choose, or select any other lawyer you personally consider suitable. This process won't be cheap, costing perhaps millon's of Baht, and success will not not be guaranteed.

 

 

 

From what Badbanker says, the decision to blacklist is taken (incredibly) by the arresting police officer. Even more incredibly, Badbanker states that an arresting police officer (not a court, nor an immigration officer) has the power to blacklist on a whim, rather than following any legal process or criteria. If Badbanker is correct, then would the reasons for this blacklisting therefore appear on the court order?

 

It's hard to believe that an arresting cop, who is not a judge or a trained immigration officer, can on his own personal opinion have somebody kicked out of the country for life.

[philtrue]

12 hours ago, greenchair said:

If you find out why you were blacklisted, your wife can make an appeal to the ombudsman on your behalf, based on humanitarian grounds because you have a daughter . The office of the ombudsman is located on the 3rd floor at the chang watana government complex. It's important that you calm down, because this is not going to be solved quickly. I am wondering about your neighbour, because my neighbour is trying to get me out of the country too. 

 

Many thanks and for sure i need to cool down.

Well my neighbour is now a happy camper with a bad karma.

Phil

[philtrue]

47 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

 

From what Badbanker says, the decision to blacklist is taken (incredibly) by the arresting police officer. Even more incredibly, Badbanker states that an arresting police officer (not a court, nor an immigration officer) has the power to blacklist on a whim, rather than following any legal process or criteria. If Badbanker is correct, then would the reasons for this blacklisting therefore appear on the court order?

 

It's hard to believe that an arresting cop, who is not a judge or a trained immigration officer, can on his own personal opinion have somebody kicked out of the country for life.

Well actually Badbanker is right as the court rules against me only in the matter of transgressing the law regarding work and again the fine was only 3000.- thb and free to go, it is only when i went to the police station to reclaim my passport that the immigration deported me.

Remember they where the one arresting me.

No overstay at all.

Many thanks for constructive debate.

Phil

 

Edited September 14, 2016 by philtrue
wrong spelling

[philtrue]

51 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

 

From what Badbanker says, the decision to blacklist is taken (incredibly) by the arresting police officer. Even more incredibly, Badbanker states that an arresting police officer (not a court, nor an immigration officer) has the power to blacklist on a whim, rather than following any legal process or criteria. If Badbanker is correct, then would the reasons for this blacklisting therefore appear on the court order?

 

It's hard to believe that an arresting cop, who is not a judge or a trained immigration officer, can on his own personal opinion have somebody kicked out of the country for life.

I guess and only guess that the decision was taken in IDC BKK.  Phuket IDC probably had just the order of transfer.

Many thanks for a constructive debate.

Phil

[greenchair]

4 hours ago, philtrue said:

Many thanks and for sure i need to cool down.

Well my neighbour is now a happy camper with a bad karma.

Phil

Yes, but what was the problem with the neighbour and how do you think he might got his nasty self into your immigration problems. Just in case my neighbour might do something similar. 

[JerryinTH]

18 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Yes, but what was the problem with the neighbour and how do you think he might got his nasty self into your immigration problems. Just in case my neighbour might do something similar. 

 

Quite easy for the right amount of baht, but it isn't cheap to get someone blacklisted. 

[Badbanker]

Competent Immigration Officials are the only ones by convention allowed to may entries in your passport.

 

philtrue does have a big red stamp in his passport in which it says clearly the crime he has been convicted of and fined 3,000 and is blacklisted from entering Thailand.

 

Yes it is ludicrous but true that any police or immigration officer has the discretionary power to black list you almost on a whim, if he thinks you are bad for the country!

 

A 3,000 baht fine is not a good reason to blacklist anyone, but it is at the discretion of your case officer.

 

He has the discretionary power, once you have been convicted of any offense and any jail sentence has been imposed by a court, be it suspended or served.

 

This is why you should always stay very close and very good friends with your case officer even if you detest him!

 

Every time someone is arrested and goes to court, they are fingerprinted and copies of this information is given into a central criminal database.

 

In the near future there will be fingerprint entry into Thailand, so people who have a criminal record will show up and be denied entry, even if they have new names!

[swissie]

32 minutes ago, Badbanker said:

Competent Immigration Officials are the only ones by convention allowed to may entries in your passport.

 

philtrue does have a big red stamp in his passport in which it says clearly the crime he has been convicted of and fined 3,000 and is blacklisted from entering Thailand.

 

Yes it is ludicrous but true that any police or immigration officer has the discretionary power to black list you almost on a whim, if he thinks you are bad for the country!

 

A 3,000 baht fine is not a good reason to blacklist anyone, but it is at the discretion of your case officer.

 

He has the discretionary power, once you have been convicted of any offense and any jail sentence has been imposed by a court, be it suspended or served.

 

This is why you should always stay very close and very good friends with your case officer even if you detest him!

 

Every time someone is arrested and goes to court, they are fingerprinted and copies of this information is given into a central criminal database.

 

In the near future there will be fingerprint entry into Thailand, so people who have a criminal record will show up and be denied entry, even if they have new names!

Quote: Yes it is ludicrous but true that any police or immigration officer has the discretionary power to black list you almost on a whim, if he thinks you are bad for the country!

 

Scary, to say the least. Apparently, the average street cop does not seem to be familiar with this.  If they would know about this, they would have the ultimate "money making machine" at their disposal.

 

Cop to Farang: "If you like Thailand and want to stay, the price is 100'000 Bht." If not, "I declare you as a person that is not good for Thailand."

Cheers.

[BritTim]

36 minutes ago, swissie said:

Quote: Yes it is ludicrous but true that any police or immigration officer has the discretionary power to black list you almost on a whim, if he thinks you are bad for the country!

 

Scary, to say the least. Apparently, the average street cop does not seem to be familiar with this.  If they would know about this, they would have the ultimate "money making machine" at their disposal.

 

Cop to Farang: "If you like Thailand and want to stay, the price is 100'000 Bht." If not, "I declare you as a person that is not good for Thailand."

Cheers.

 

It is very possible that the failure to return the OP's passport for months was a more subtle version of this, and the guy's lawyer failed to explain what was going on.

[Get Real]

On 2016-09-10 at 7:18 AM, philtrue said:

They did not give me my passport back i was to be send to IDC BKK from there to my home country not knowing that i was blacklisted, The Thai embassy in Switzerland granted me the usual retirement visa. I understood the all thing when i was not allowed to board the thai airways fly. Again the Swiss attendant just knew that i was not allowed to check in the rest was tolled to my over the phone by the immigration In BKK. 

That would mean that you were held in detention, which mean that they do not have to inform you about anything. the only thing on the agenda is to send you home. After that it´s actually your responsibility to check up what has happened to your situation. You are the one that need to help yourself.

[greenchair]

Hope you keep us updated on your progress. 

[Badbanker]

Blacklisting of a foreigner is only available to a police or immigration officer who has prosecuted you for a criminal offense. So it is not available to your typical boy in brown on the street.

 

Remember the only police officer that can institute a criminal case is a commissioned officer.  That means someone with 1 star or more on the shoulders of his uniform.

 

When you are arrested it is standard required procedure to seize your passport.  It is also common in Bangkok for the court to issue an order to the arresting officer, to send to your passport to the court to be held there for safe keeping.

 

Within 24 hours of your arrest the police officer will inform immigration that you are under judgment and you will be blacklisted from leaving Thailand!

 

If your trial is projected to go beyond the length of your visa, a court order at your request, will be issued to extend your visa beyond the projected court trial period.  Normally this extension of stay goes for 1-3 months.

 

This blacklisting can only be removed by a court order on the completion of your criminal case.  It is common and normal to get a court order from the court saying the criminal case is now complete and you are free to leave and return at will.

 

Then you have to go back to the case officer and continue to be friendly to him to ensure there are no further repercussions.

 

In the case of Phil he was re-arrested by the case officer at the completion of his court case and removed to immigration, thence to Bangkok for deportation.

 

When you leave Thailand on the completion of the case I have seen many people present the court order to Immigration and there was smiles all round, and they say come back again.

 

I have also seen people go to the airport and be turned back as they didn't have a court order and when they pressured the immigration officer, they will call to court and find out the case is complete, but as the case officer is not on side, immigration may black list you and deport you.

 

I am cutting in on this issue as it is not clearly understood and wish to dispel false information.

 

BB

 

 

 

 

[Get Real]

On 2016-09-13 at 7:15 PM, swissie said:

THIS WOULD HAVE TO HIT FARANG ISAAN DWELLERS LIKE LIGHTNING:
- All of them supervise their Thai-Agri-Workers on a daily basis, without being in the possession of a Work Permit.
Buddha help them !
Cheers. 

It just doesn´t get the same if you look and try to supervise a work you are not even allowed to get a work permit for. You can also not own anything regarding the land for agriculture.
Therefore there is no need for any help, due to that it doesn´t matter what you say or try to supervise. Nobody have to listen to you, because you own nothing in that sector. Totally irrelevant.

[amjamj]

Sorry cannot read all but what is the REAL reason why they blacklisted you ?

 

 

[ubonjoe]

Topic is now 

No need to dredge up this old topic.