Injustice echoes from all sides two years after Koh Tao murders

[swanny321]

 

        http://www.channel4.com/programmes/murder-in-paradise/on-demand/62952-001

[sandgroper2]

11 hours ago, smedly said:

the families are split actually and neither are equipped to make a judgement on the technicalities of legal process, as I have repeated many times - it all comes down to the inability of the prosecution to produce the original samples of DNA for verification and based on that there is no physical (produced) evidence linking the two accused to the crime, the police claim tests were a match but without the actual evidence it is nothing more than that - a claim, and therefore hearsay, the conviction was based on physical DNA evidence that was never produced to the court, lets no go there again as it has been done over and over

I agree smedly. why are you going over it again

[Khun Han]

^ Because posters keep on trying to say otherwise?

[Khun Han]

I note that the OP article ignores the fact that Pol General Panya Mamen made Montriwet and Warot Tuvichien prime suspects (to say the least), instead claiming that they were merely victims of a social media campaign. I wonder if this is now the official history of this tragedy in Thailand, and Pol General Panya's story has been whitewashed out?

[smedly]

I will say one more thing which has been repeated over an over on several threads about these murders

 

David had injuries on his body (from fully public photos that were released very early on before any cover up that may have been in play ) that were completely unexplained, they were small puncture wounds on various parts of his body very clearly visible and in my opinion were caused by the assault and fight that took place, an expert pathologist would have been able to reveal how these wounds occurred if they were allowed to.....and I stress if they were allowed to, things don't work here the way they do in the west, we all assume that a pathologist will do his job and tell the truth, I have no doubt that somewhere there is a report from a professional person that gives a detailed report on how these injuries may have occurred - has anyone seen it ? 

 

IMO they could have been consistent with punches from someone wearing a ring with something sharp protruding about 1-2cm ............the point is these injuries were never explained, they were most likely to the bone and would have left a certain pattern and calling card, I am not accusing anyone - I am simply stating what I saw - I will continue to draw my own conclusions  as will others reading this post

[smedly]

I just want to add one more thing

 

an expert profiler would have this Koh tao island exposed in no time - there is evil playing there and I have no doubt about this, foreigners who stand up to these people (male or female) will either be found beaten to death on a secluded beach - floating in a swimming pool - hanging in a room with their hands tied or floating in the surf or not found at all - there is a pattern  

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts have been removed as well as a nonsense speculative post. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

23 hours ago, smedly said:

the families are split actually and neither are equipped to make a judgement on the technicalities of legal process, as I have repeated many times - it all comes down to the inability of the prosecution to produce the original samples of DNA for verification and based on that there is no physical (produced) evidence linking the two accused to the crime, the police claim tests were a match but without the actual evidence it is nothing more than that - a claim, and therefore hearsay, the conviction was based on physical DNA evidence that was never produced to the court, lets no go there again as it has been done over and over

I don't honestly know why you constantly keep say that this whole case rests on this DNA Evidence and none was ever presented. Even this LINK says: " The court also ruled there was sufficient evidence that Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo raped Witheridge before killing her and Miller on that night, including security footage, DNA traces and a phone of Miller’s found in Wai Phyo’s possession,"

 

So it wasn't all about just DNA Evidence because as you can see there was other evidence involved here to convict them. Since the security footage and having Millers Cell Phone can't be argued, then the only hope for the defense to get a new trial, or an overturned verdict, is to convince the new judges that police DNA testing procedures were flawed. Andy Hall is quoted as saying this at the end of this LINK. 

 

Flawed does not mean non-existent! It means faulty, unsound, imperfect. Your claim seems to be based on them being let go because the DNA Testing may have been imperfect in your eyes, so forget about the rest of the evidence. My view has been that if there is "Sufficient Evidence" to remove "Reasonable Doubt", as has been claimed here, then you must find them guilty.  

 

[GOLDBUGGY]

16 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Unless you can share proof of this then it's just your wild and unsubstantiated assumption they drank a fair bit of alcohol while working in the bar?

 

Do you also assume their employer would allow staff to get drunk every night when they should be doing the background work that keeps the place operating for the paying customers? 

 

It's rather doubtful these two your Burmese workers would have the funds to drink all night on the night in question or any night (my assumption). 

 

"it doesn't take too much to get orientals really drunk." Again an assumption, a blanket assumption. 

 

On the other hand would the customers or the bar owner be paying for their drinks? I suggest that's very doubtful (again my assumption).

 

I just wonder if this is another wild assumption that seems to have been a hallmark of this sad situation. 

 

Well, actually it was the 2 Accused who said there were drunk that night and staggered home later. They said they got drunk on Home Made Wine. After they finished their beer a friend went to get it for them. But I will not rehash 2 years of news to find this for you. You can believe this or not.  

[freebyrd]

Let's face it ,when it comes to justice or anything real, despite TL wanting to be the hub of everything, it has no idea of fairness for all and never will. Khon Thai Jai Dee

[drbamboo]

17 hours ago, fxe1200 said:

 

Why was Panja Mamen removed from the investigation, at a time when the culprits are known?

 

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

" Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon.

He is the brother of a village headman in Koh Tao.

He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said.

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok." 

 

maybe because of some money? No, it is simply impossible especially  in Thailand. ..... 

Edited September 15, 2016 by drbamboo

[yellowboat]

There is reasonable doubt and the case became politicized .    Highly questionable.

[katatonic]

25 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Well, actually it was the 2 Accused who said there were drunk that night and staggered home later. They said they got drunk on Home Made Wine. After they finished their beer a friend went to get it for them. But I will not rehash 2 years of news to find this for you. You can believe this or not.  

Exactly, how on earth could two little 40 kilo men that couldn't walk straight brutally murder a man well over a foot taller than either of them and double their weight? Hannah could probably have fended them off on her own!

And as for 'evidence' - there was none. At all. DNA - inadmissable and and 'because we said so'. Security camera footage - inconclusive. Cell phone - circumstantial. If you go by Goldbuggy's method you can just pick two people at random and make them prove absolutely beyond doubt it wasn't them. I wonder if Goldbuggy could absolutely prove it wasn't him, if he happened to be on that beach that night?

It would be interesting to know who the shills on his thread are and what connection they have to Koh Tao and the actual gang that perpetrated these and other murders there. Pretty pathetic considering the blatant police misdirection and trial that had only one judge and went ahead despite the lack of evidence. I spoke with a very senior Thai legal person(obviously can't name them them as it's hardly a free country) recently and was told that the case was a great embarrassment for the country both here and internationally but no-one can do anything as it just goes too high up the chain of command. They told me everyone in the legal profession knows the Burmese two are innocent and also who the guilty parties are - funnily enough I guessed right first time..

[stephenterry]

Whether or not any poster on here considers the B2 innocent or guilty, they have been sentenced  and are on death row. The defence has produced a 200 page appeal document to be heard in 2017 (probably) by the same district 8 legality (and D8 commander) who found them guilty of the crimes committed. That, in itself, is a verifiable conflict of interest, and is just one example of the 'injustice' system at work. It is inconceivable that the same peer judges would overturn the original verdict, and unlikely that the sentences would be reduced as the B2 did not plead guilty.

 

In addition, the prosecution is seeking more time to respond to the defence's appeal, thus delaying matters further. IMO, the Appeal outcome will not be favourable to the B2, and until the case goes to the Supreme court in BKK no semblance of justice will prevail.      

 

I would also add that any ex-pat who has lived here, should know that the RTP are a law unto themselves (particularly those high up the gravy train), and can choose to interpret it any which way they want - as happened in the Koh Tao case - and which is happening right now in your locality.

 

[seahorse]

8 hours ago, swanny321 said:

 

        http://www.channel4.com/programmes/murder-in-paradise/on-demand/62952-001

This documentary is OK. Not exactly hard-hitting, though. It states basic facts more than anything. Useful for anyone who has not been following the case closely. However, I suspect that there are many people on this forum and elsewhere who know much more about this case than is shown in this report.

 

One or two interesting snippets for those who didn't bother watching.

 

They interview Montriwat Toovichien. Most of what he says on camera is undoubtedly true but meaningless. He admits questioning Sean McAnna and chasing him into the convenience store but no questions were asked about why he would take it upon himself to interview Sean McAnna and not leave it to the police.

 

Quote

These foreigners who come to Thailand, they live the lifestyle they want to without realising that this is not their country. They are not allowed to do as they wish. There is a difference between our culture and their culture so when these foreigners live their lives according to their culture this leads to accidents and risks to their lives. For example, taking an overdose or driving their car or motorbike too fast, leading to an accident, going diving without taking any safety precautions and many other things. It all depends on fate. However most of the incidents I come across the foreigners were dead drunk and cannot even recall what happened. I would say that this is one of the main problems.

Chaiyan Turasakul

Koh Tao mayor

January 2016

 

So absolutely nothing to do with the availability of drugs on the island nor the people who supply them, then. Although there is a certain amount of truth in what he says - a lot of people take more risks in Thailand than they do at home, this guy is victim blaming. The reason for this is precisely the opposite of what he says.

 

These foreigners come to Koh Tao so that they can do whatever they want - the exact opposite of their own culture and this is essentially Thai culture prathet thai - the land of the free.

 

The hubris of this man is astonishing.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2016 by seahorse
Spelling

[adhd]

powerful connected people on murder island, even the one's the fled the scene, can live their normal lives

 

as if nothing happened at all ...

[stephenterry]

5 hours ago, katatonic said:

Exactly, how on earth could two little 40 kilo men that couldn't walk straight brutally murder a man well over a foot taller than either of them and double their weight? Hannah could probably have fended them off on her own!

And as for 'evidence' - there was none. At all. DNA - inadmissable and and 'because we said so'. Security camera footage - inconclusive. Cell phone - circumstantial. If you go by Goldbuggy's method you can just pick two people at random and make them prove absolutely beyond doubt it wasn't them. I wonder if Goldbuggy could absolutely prove it wasn't him, if he happened to be on that beach that night?

It would be interesting to know who the shills on his thread are and what connection they have to Koh Tao and the actual gang that perpetrated these and other murders there. Pretty pathetic considering the blatant police misdirection and trial that had only one judge and went ahead despite the lack of evidence. I spoke with a very senior Thai legal person(obviously can't name them them as it's hardly a free country) recently and was told that the case was a great embarrassment for the country both here and internationally but no-one can do anything as it just goes too high up the chain of command. They told me everyone in the legal profession knows the Burmese two are innocent and also who the guilty parties are - funnily enough I guessed right first time..

 

 

It is my understanding that there were always three judges during the trial, but only one was the same judge throughout. In addition, it's how things work here, the justice system at its most unjust. 

Edited September 15, 2016 by metisdead
Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording.

[ddavidovsky]

11 hours ago, Alwyn said:

The suspects who have been let off cannot have done it because they've been let off? That's what you're saying. No more suspects? Why would there be? They have the two Burmese lads and have "let off" (as you say) the other suspects. If you want more than prejudicial feelings why don't you go back to the beginning when the Thai police said they had one of the murderers and the other one was on the run? They said they had proof of it. Next thing, that particular policeman was taken off the case new police brought in, all of the proof disappeared and then two Burmese boys were arrested. Arrested with no evidence or proof, tortured and charged. The crime scene was then totally destroyed by the police when they walked all over it with reporters. DNA evidence was shown to be unreliable as the police said the DNA results was back after less than a day. In the real World this can take several months but an express job would be 2 to 3 weeks. So this was debunked be DNA experts. When asked to retest the DNA, the police said they cannot, as it's run out...... I could go on and on but why don't you spend some time researching? It will be therapeutic for you

 

Perhaps my position is too subtle for this thread. Certainly I seem to be the only person whose reason is not being clouded by emotion. When I see so many people ranting so dogmatically it looks more like hysteria than anything else - it looks more akin to religious belief, which is of course also based entirely on a prejudicial interpretation of reality. Nobody is allowing any possibility of doubt and that is rationally inadmissible in itself.

 

I wasn't there to witness the murder and neither were you, so everything is supposition (including my own opinion, but at least I am aware of that) and amateur-sleuthing based partly on assumed facts, but mainly on prejudice against the authorities. That prejudice may be perfectly understandable, but is still not proof because the police are not always wrong.

 

I recall the response of most people on ThaiVisa immediately after news of the murder broke - they immediately assumed there would be a cover-up and some hapless Burmese would be scapegoated. They find sufficient self-justification in that (rather facile) prediction alone, and it has congealed in their minds into an absolute conviction apparently blinding them to the possibility that the Burmese may actually have done it.

 

Don't forget that they actually confessed in the beginning and did the reconstruction -  until they got a lawyer to tell them 'hey, nobody trusts the Thai police, we can get away with this'. Some may say they were tortured into confession? Nobody confesses to murder they didn't commit. They were surely pressured to confess, and no doubt beaten up a bit, they weren't tortured that far.

 

But I wasn't there. I don't know who did it, and I'm saying I don't know. There may have been a cover-up, there may not. I'm asking all you people who are so convinced: Are there any better suspects? Who exactly? Why is it one of the families accepts the evidence? Why didn't the British police basically trash the whole investigation when they had far better access to the case than anyone here? Basic question: how can you actually be sure the Burmese didn't do it? Take away the prejudice against the police and what are you really left with?

 

I believe in Bayesian inference as a useful principle, but not in murder cases.

Edited September 15, 2016 by ddavidovsky

[DiscoDan]

Meanwhile the so called farang legal experts and expat Burmese fan club are at each others with the 2 groups trading accusations against each other on an almost daily basis.

 

http://www.samuitimes.com/the-koh-tao-murders-two-years-on/

 

Sadly it now appears that the western ex-pats surrounding that legal team seem to spend a great deal of time sending unsavoury emails to Mr Yarwood and Ms Buchanan defending Mr Holmes and his conviction for fraud.
As it is well known that Andy Hall has an axe to grind with the Thai justice system for his own case,

 

 

 

 

[rkidlad]

I believe them to be innocent. A small minority think guilty.

 

Whatever your opinion - how can you honestly say that this case doesn't stink and isn't full of holes?

 

Far too many unanswered questions that need to be answered. My culture is one of asking questions and seeking answers. Thai culture is one of not being so inquisitive and letting things be. There's no right or wrong when carrying out mundane day-to-day tasks; although, I prefer my own. Where there is a right or wrong is when dealing with two people spending the rest of their lives in prison because it's not the norm to ask questions and embarrass people who should be held accountable for answers. 

 

You can lazily say "good enough" when someone hangs a picture crooked. You can't same the same thing when sentencing people to life in prison for a heinous crime. International standards, right? 

Edited September 15, 2016 by rkidlad

[DiscoDan]

1 hour ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Well, actually it was the 2 Accused who said there were drunk that night and staggered home later. They said they got drunk on Home Made Wine. After they finished their beer a friend went to get it for them. But I will not rehash 2 years of news to find this for you. You can believe this or not.  

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/20/burmese-murder-accused-british-backpackers-thailand

 

"The pair said that on the night of the murder they had been drinking heavily and playing guitar on the beach, and by late evening were “so drunk we couldn’t walk properly”. They both said they had no idea who carried out the crime."

[stephenterry]

21 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

Perhaps my position is too subtle for this thread. Certainly I seem to be the only person whose reason is not being clouded by emotion. When I see so many people ranting so dogmatically it looks more like hysteria than anything else - it looks more akin to religious belief, which is of course also based entirely on a prejudicial interpretation of reality. Nobody is allowing any possibility of doubt and that is rationally inadmissible in itself.

 

I wasn't there to witness the murder and neither were you, so everything is supposition (including my own opinion, but at least I am aware of that) and amateur-sleuthing based partly on assumed facts, but mainly on prejudice against the authorities. That prejudice may be perfectly understandable, but is still not proof because the police are not always wrong.

 

I recall the response of most people on ThaiVisa immediately after news of the murder broke - they immediately assumed there would be a cover-up and some hapless Burmese would be scapegoated. They find sufficient self-justification in that (rather facile) prediction alone, and it has congealed in their minds into an absolute conviction apparently blinding them to the possibility that the Burmese may actually have done it.

 

Don't forget that they actually confessed in the beginning and did the reconstruction -  until they got a lawyer to tell them 'hey, nobody trusts the Thai police, we can get away with this'. Some may say they were tortured into confession? Nobody confesses to murder they didn't commit. They were surely pressured to confess, and no doubt beaten up a bit, they weren't tortured that far.

 

But I wasn't there. I don't know who did it, and I'm saying I don't know. There may have been a cover-up, there may not. I'm asking all you people who are so convinced: Are there any better suspects? Who exactly? Why is it one of the families accepts the evidence? Why didn't the British police basically trash the whole investigation when they had far better access to the case than anyone here? Basic question: how can you actually be sure the Burmese didn't do it? Take away the prejudice against the police and what are you really left with?

 

I believe in Bayesian inference as a useful principle, but not in murder cases.

 

I take it you haven't read and understood the multiple posts that answer your questions - in that a reasonable person could accept as being rational and not at all emotional.

 

Are there any better suspects? Who exactly?  Refer to the statements made by Panya, in  which he identified two suspects that he could place at the murder scene.

Why is it one of the families accepts the evidence? Apart from the fact that no verifiable evidence was produced in court, ask yourself why the other family hasn't accepted the 'evidence'.

Why didn't the British police basically trash the whole investigation when they had far better access to the case than anyone here?  I would suggest diplomacy prevails in the public arena. Nevertheless the Norfolk coroner's evidence contradicted that produced by her Thai counterpart, re Hannah Witheridge.

Basic question: how can you actually be sure the Burmese didn't do it? There is not any verifiable evidence to convict them of murder.  That is enough surety, IMO.

Take away the prejudice against the police and what are you really left with? No evidence that is verifiable, substantiated and verified. So zilch.

 

 

 

 

[cumgranosalum]

48 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

Perhaps my position is too subtle for this thread. Certainly I seem to be the only person whose reason is not being clouded by emotion. When I see so many people ranting so dogmatically it looks more like hysteria than anything else - it looks more akin to religious belief, which is of course also based entirely on a prejudicial interpretation of reality. Nobody is allowing any possibility of doubt and that is rationally inadmissible in itself.

 

I wasn't there to witness the murder and neither were you, so everything is supposition (including my own opinion, but at least I am aware of that) and amateur-sleuthing based partly on assumed facts, but mainly on prejudice against the authorities. That prejudice may be perfectly understandable, but is still not proof because the police are not always wrong.

 

I recall the response of most people on ThaiVisa immediately after news of the murder broke - they immediately assumed there would be a cover-up and some hapless Burmese would be scapegoated. They find sufficient self-justification in that (rather facile) prediction alone, and it has congealed in their minds into an absolute conviction apparently blinding them to the possibility that the Burmese may actually have done it.

 

Don't forget that they actually confessed in the beginning and did the reconstruction -  until they got a lawyer to tell them 'hey, nobody trusts the Thai police, we can get away with this'. Some may say they were tortured into confession? Nobody confesses to murder they didn't commit. They were surely pressured to confess, and no doubt beaten up a bit, they weren't tortured that far.

 

But I wasn't there. I don't know who did it, and I'm saying I don't know. There may have been a cover-up, there may not. I'm asking all you people who are so convinced: Are there any better suspects? Who exactly? Why is it one of the families accepts the evidence? Why didn't the British police basically trash the whole investigation when they had far better access to the case than anyone here? Basic question: how can you actually be sure the Burmese didn't do it? Take away the prejudice against the police and what are you really left with?

 

I believe in Bayesian inference as a useful principle, but not in murder cases.

The point is nothing to do with whether they did it or not - the fact is that in any normal legal procedures this case could never have come to court - evidence whether true or not has been degraded by the mishandling of thew various authorities involved and any verdict ids at best questionable and in all probability, worthless.

 

I think you should review you interpretation of Bayesian inference!

[ddavidovsky]

11 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

 

I take it you haven't read and understood the multiple posts that answer your questions - in that a reasonable person could accept as being rational and not at all emotional.

 

Are there any better suspects? Who exactly?  Refer to the statements made by Panya, in  which he identified two suspects that he could place at the murder scene.

Why is it one of the families accepts the evidence? Apart from the fact that no verifiable evidence was produced in court, ask yourself why the other family hasn't accepted the 'evidence'.

Why didn't the British police basically trash the whole investigation when they had far better access to the case than anyone here?  I would suggest diplomacy prevails in the public arena. Nevertheless the Norfolk coroner's evidence contradicted that produced by her Thai counterpart, re Hannah Witheridge.

Basic question: how can you actually be sure the Burmese didn't do it? There is not any verifiable evidence to convict them of murder.  That is enough surety, IMO.

Take away the prejudice against the police and what are you really left with? No evidence that is verifiable, substantiated and verified. So zilch.

 

Witness statements are notoriously unreliable and in any case the British police were in a far better position to judge than you or I.  Ludicrous to suggest that the British police connived just to be diplomatic. You're just plucking arguments out of the sky.

 

You do realise that your last two answers actually supported what I'm saying? I presume you meant the exact opposite. In any case, not exactly a quality deposition.

 

[stephenterry]

I'll let someone else respond, dd. It's pointless continuing this side thread with you. Sorry, find someone else to harass.  

[ddavidovsky]

20 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

The point is nothing to do with whether they did it or not - the fact is that in any normal legal procedures this case could never have come to court - evidence whether true or not has been degraded by the mishandling of thew various authorities involved and any verdict ids at best questionable and in all probability, worthless.

 

I think you should review you interpretation of Bayesian inference!

 

So you actually agree with me (and therefore my interpretation of Bayesian inference), only for a different reason.

 

It seems likely there are always irregularities in Thai procedures (inference again) but (logically) that still doesn't vitiate the result entirely. My main point is that opinion around here is being skewed by prejudice. It's when people say they are 100% certain that I stop believing them.

[GOLDBUGGY]

1 hour ago, katatonic said:

Exactly, how on earth could two little 40 kilo men that couldn't walk straight brutally murder a man well over a foot taller than either of them and double their weight? Hannah could probably have fended them off on her own!

And as for 'evidence' - there was none. At all. DNA - inadmissable and and 'because we said so'. Security camera footage - inconclusive. Cell phone - circumstantial. If you go by Goldbuggy's method you can just pick two people at random and make them prove absolutely beyond doubt it wasn't them. I wonder if Goldbuggy could absolutely prove it wasn't him, if he happened to be on that beach that night?

It would be interesting to know who the shills on his thread are and what connection they have to Koh Tao and the actual gang that perpetrated these and other murders there. Pretty pathetic considering the blatant police misdirection and trial that had only one judge and went ahead despite the lack of evidence. I spoke with a very senior Thai legal person(obviously can't name them them as it's hardly a free country) recently and was told that the case was a great embarrassment for the country both here and internationally but no-one can do anything as it just goes too high up the chain of command. They told me everyone in the legal profession knows the Burmese two are innocent and also who the guilty parties are - funnily enough I guessed right first time..

Well the courts didn't agree with your Armchair Assessment there was no Evidence Presented in court so no point in arguing that point anymore. 

 

As to being 40 kilograms my Thai Wife is probably smaller than they are, but to be honest I wouldn't want her angry at me for drinking to much and sneaking up on me with a garden hoe or rake. Ask your wife to try it on you and let us know what happens.

 

As to your other question, if I was on the beach that night, was drunk like they were, was caught on CCTV after I told everyone I was at home sleeping, had one of the Victims Cell Phones in my pocket when it was never reported lost to anyone or a friend, my DNA Sample Matched what they found inside of Hannah, and I had no alibi, and I admitted to this crime, then in that case maybe it was me. But at least I have a good alibi for that night. How about you?    

[phuketandsee]

43 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

Witness statements are notoriously unreliable and in any case the British police were in a far better position to judge than you or I.  Ludicrous to suggest that the British police connived just to be diplomatic. You're just plucking arguments out of the sky.

 

You do realise that your last two answers actually supported what I'm saying? I presume you meant the exact opposite. In any case, not exactly a quality deposition.

 

 

It was well documented that the British police had very little access. They were told and shown only what the Thai authorities wanted them to know or see. It was also well documented that the British government assisted the Thai authorities for diplomatic reasons, principally to preserve reciprocal assistance in dealing with the pursuit of criminals, but also, no doubt, to protect arms sales and other trade.

[soisiphok]

20 hours ago, DM07 said:

First: it is ONE family that has swallowed the explanation by courts and RTP, hook, line and sinker!

Second, I really get aggressive, when I hear this BS- argument!

They have seen more than the public has?

And why is that?

One of the most high profile cases, that gaines international interest...IF there was anything, that the families have seen, that is so much more convincing than anything that was published so far...wouldn't it be in the interest of ALL (RTP, courts, public, even the families of the victims...all 4 of them!), that this overwhelming evidence would be made available?

There was not hing more, than the muppet show, we all followed!

And that is the end of it!

A travesty, a perversion of justice and a very, very sad joke!

I have followed this closely as is possible  (like many) . DMO7 IS 100% right. Anyone who believes otherwise wouldn't know if their arse was on fire! 

[kiwikeith]

20 hours ago, robblok said:

IMHO the family has had access to far more information then anyone here on the forum and also has far more at stake.. so I kinda trust their judgement. The family has had information from the UK police and other info.

 

Anyway like you I have not followed this closely but I would certainly think that the family had a lot at stake here and would have had far more information and would know more then most .. if not all.. on this forum.

 

Just because we have not seen it does not mean its not there.

One of the family was brave enough to speak out.

The other Pratt who stuck his nose out should be ashamed of himself.

The family in my opinion is well aware who is not guilty and I can not fathom why they don't stand up and be counted.

I feel that the British government is more concerned with diplomatic relations than the B2.

Remember! the New Zealand government never stood up to Thailand over the Chiang mai toxic hotel bed bug spray deaths, even after an undercover news team took samples from the room.

I would hazard a guess and say the British told the families it was not worth the agro.

Some people would accept that, and others would not.

It was an angry parent wanting truth that brought to justice the murderer of the Kiwi shot dead on his bike in Pattaya, before she pressured Thai authorities his GF was running free for the murder.

I feel sadly that the families of the 2 Brits murdered on Koh Tao could save the B2, but it would be a tremendous effort and strain.