Yingluck's assets seizure case to be wrapped up in few days: Dr Wisanu

[webfact]

Yingluck's assets seizure case to be wrapped up in few days: Dr Wisanu

 

 

BANGKOK: -- The panel charged with considering compensation to be demanded from former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra to cover the loss from the rice pledging scheme is expected to wrap up the case in 1-2 days, said Deputy Prime Minister Wisanu Krea-ngarm on Thursday.

 

After that, he said the case will be forwarded to the finance minister to be passed on to Prime Minister Prayut Chan-ocha who will have to issue an administrative order for the seizure of Ms Yingluck’s assets to cover the loss from the rice scheme.

 

Or, the prime minister can authorize the finance minister to issue the administrative order for the assets seizure in the same fashion as the commerce minister who was assigned by the prime minister to issue an administrative order to seize the assets of former commerce minister Boonsong Teriyaphirom and associates concerning the fake G-to-G rice deals, said Dr Wisanu.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/yinglucks-assets-seizure-case-wrapped-days-dr-wisanu/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2016-09-16

[jamesbrock]

The witch hunt continues... 

 

Sure she was ultimately responsible for the scheme, but seizing her personal assets??

 

Did they seize the personal assets of the Army Chief responsible for the purchase of the GT200? The blimp? The aircraft carrier? The Rajabhakti Park project?

 

[Disclaimer: Again, I am not a fan of the Shin clan.]

[Valentine]

1 minute ago, jamesbrock said:

The witch hunt continues... 

 

Sure she was ultimately responsible for the scheme, but seizing her personal assets??

 

Did they seize the personal assets of the Army Chief responsible for the purchase of the GT200? The blimp? The aircraft carrier? The Rajabhakti Park project?

 

[Disclaimer: Again, I am not a fan of the Shin clan.]

There is no one on trial for those.

[jamesbrock]

Just now, Valentine said:

There is no one on trial for those.

 

That's kind of my point.

 

What kind of country seizes the personal assets of officials responsible for costly, failed, poorly implemented schemes?

 

In 2009 Australia's then PM Kevin Rudd implemented the the ill-fated $2.8 billion Home Insulation Program (HIP), part of the economic stimulus strategy after the GFC. Four lives were lost, several workers were injured and about 120 houses caught fire in a program employing more than 12,000 people in the space of a year before it was terminated. The ensuing Royal Commission into the scheme described it as "a litany of errors". There was never a call to seize Mr Rudd's personal assets - the very thought is ludicrous.

[SpokaneAl]

 

That's kind of my point.

 

What kind of country seizes the personal assets of officials responsible for costly, failed, poorly implemented schemes?

 

In 2009 Australia's then PM Kevin Rudd implemented the the ill-fated $2.8 billion Home Insulation Program (HIP), part of the economic stimulus strategy after the GFC. Four lives were lost, several workers were injured and about 120 houses caught fire in a program employing more than 12,000 people in the space of a year before it was terminated. The ensuing Royal Commission into the scheme described it as "a litany of errors". There was never a call to seize Mr Rudd's personal assets - the very thought is ludicrous.

I agree.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Wilsonandson]

Source of Wealth Businesswoman, Politician (Thai PM) Nationality Thailand. About Yingluck Shinawatra. Thai businesswoman and politician, Yingluck Shinawatra, has an estimated net worth of $17 million (541 million Baht) as of September 2011, according to Thai independent National Counter Corruption Commission.
http://www.bornrich.com/yingluck-shinawatra.html

The 280 billion baht in damage caused by the rice pledging scheme of the Yingluck administration take away 571 million baht of Yingluck's personal assets = 279.429 Billion Baht.

Great job!

[aussieinthailand]

I have no problem at all going after the assets of the corrupt ministers/officials that have pocketed money at the expense of the country.

So the question should be Did Yingluk pocket any money corruptly from the rice scheme? YES or NO... if yes then go after her,  if no then assets should be taken.

The rice scheme was a poorly run policy and there were many corrupt activities within it, so go after those that acted corruptly.

Now if the junta take the policy of ministers and officials assets can be confiscated that have had corruption linked to the policy then why not apply the same actions to the military?  Plenty of corruption there and Who was the head of the military?  Who should be held responsible?   Consistency. So should his assets be confiscated???  Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

[Yann55]

They're doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

 

And, Jamesbrock, I totally get your point, but 'costly, failed, poorly implemented schemes' are one thing, and schemes implemented for the sole purpose of enriching private individuals are another.

 

Frankly, in my eyes, the problem is not that Yingluk is being held financially responsible for her faults (yes, faults, not mistakes), but that so many other politicians, in this country and around the world, get away with stealing mountains of money from their countries, ie from the people who voted for them, thereby turning the frail system of democracy into a pathetic farce and taking us all slowly but surely towards totalitarian regimes.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Yann55

[mesterm]

4 hours ago, jamesbrock said:

Did they seize the personal assets of the Army Chief responsible for the purchase of the GT200? The blimp? The aircraft carrier? The Rajabhakti Park project?

 

They all got away with it, but in this case the authorities are acting all high and mighty as if they are upholding the law and carrying out justice. That kind of nonsense just makes me so angry.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, aussieinthailand said:

I have no problem at all going after the assets of the corrupt ministers/officials that have pocketed money at the expense of the country.

So the question should be Did Yingluk pocket any money corruptly from the rice scheme? YES or NO... if yes then go after her,  if no then assets should be taken.

The rice scheme was a poorly run policy and there were many corrupt activities within it, so go after those that acted corruptly.

Now if the junta take the policy of ministers and officials assets can be confiscated that have had corruption linked to the policy then why not apply the same actions to the military?  Plenty of corruption there and Who was the head of the military?  Who should be held responsible?   Consistency. So should his assets be confiscated???  Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

She was warned by world bank and others that it would fail, during the running of the program the democratas came with rotten rice and where threatened with arrest for theft (using the law to intimidate is not only a junta thing). The person who did the accounting showed the loss and also was threatened. Losses were ignored corruption with fake G2G deals was ignored. It was gross negligence and a program used to get in power (vote buying) so yes go after her personal money.

 

Also use this as a precedent and go after ALL corruption this way. 

[debate101]

This is not justice.

[Cuchulainn]

Let's hope the panel is in an extremely foul mood when it comes to decision time!!  

[williamgeorgeallen]

if ying luck is stupid enough to have any assets left in thailand then she deserves to loose them. innocent or guilty does not matter in thailand, she is the political opponent of the regime currently in power. how long has she had to get her loot out of thailand? surely it has been years. her brother could have shown her how to do it. they both have private jets to act as transportation.

[TEFLKrabi]

I'm not a fan of hers but I do think this is wrong. Ban her and all those involved from politics and fine them  a set amount for incompetence. 

[smutcakes]

Until the judiciary and 'independent' agencies are reformed to make them umm independent, then all of this is a nonsense. 

 

Few have trust in the impartiality of the Govt bodies, and until such time they do, any decisions they make will always be very arguable and treated with disdain.

[rixalex]

22 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Until the judiciary and 'independent' agencies are reformed to make them umm independent, then all of this is a nonsense. 

 

Few have trust in the impartiality of the Govt bodies, and until such time they do, any decisions they make will always be very arguable and treated with disdain.

Don't recall the Shinawatras treating the decision of not guilty of concealing assets with "disdain" or deriding it as nonsense back in 2001.

 

Had that decision gone against them, Thaksin's political career would have been cut off at the knees right from the start and Yingluck would have likely never been PM.

 

But of course that decision didn't go against them and we all know why.

 

They happily used the judicial system when it suited them... but now without the power and influence that they once had, they can't, and it's all so terribly unfair. Boo hoo.

Edited September 16, 2016 by rixalex

[smutcakes]

Just now, rixalex said:

Don't recall the Shinawatras treating the decision of not guilty of concealing assets with "disdain" or hailing it as nonsense back in 2001.

 

Had that decision gone against them, Thaksin's political career would have been cut off at the knees right from the start and Yingluck would have likely never been PM.

 

But of course that decision didn't go against them and we all know why.

 

They happily used the judicial system when it suited them... but now without the power and influence that they once had, they can't, and it's all so terribly unfair. Boo hoo.

 

So you are agreeing that the judicial system is a nonsense and cannot be trusted to function properly?

 

So we are in agreement.

[rixalex]

1 minute ago, smutcakes said:

 

So you are agreeing that the judicial system is a nonsense and cannot be trusted to function properly?

 

So we are in agreement.

I'm agreeing that the judicial system is open to abuse but it's the only judicial system the country has and so you either choose to accept all the rulings or you ignore them all - you can't cherry pick.

 

The Shinawatras have accepted dubious verdicts that have gone in their favour, so my feeling is, as people who have played the system to their own advantage, they should suck things up when things don't swing their way. Of course they won't do that. They'll whinge and moan and appeal for sympathy. Pass the tissues.

[billd766]

7 hours ago, jamesbrock said:

The witch hunt continues... 

 

Sure she was ultimately responsible for the scheme, but seizing her personal assets??

 

Did they seize the personal assets of the Army Chief responsible for the purchase of the GT200? The blimp? The aircraft carrier? The Rajabhakti Park project?

 

[Disclaimer: Again, I am not a fan of the Shin clan.]

 

Have those people been charged with anything?

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, rixalex said:

I'm agreeing that the judicial system is open to abuse but it's the only judicial system the country has and so you either choose to accept all the rulings or you ignore them all - you can't cherry pick.

 

The Shinawatras have accepted dubious verdicts that have gone in their favour, so my feeling is, as people who have played the system to their own advantage, they should suck things up when things don't swing their way. Of course they won't do that. They'll whinge and moan and appeal for sympathy. Pass the tissues.

 

I agree, but currently they are simply making things up as they go along. For the sake of the country i don't believe this is sustainable or a good long term option. In my opinion the NCPO should start what they promised when they took power of the country, and that is reform these ineffective bodies.

 

They need to start building up public trust in these institutions to deliver quick, clean and fair decisions. Once people have trust in these institutions, decisions like this against Yingluck or any of her party will be far more accepted in my opinion. To an observer it appears now every case against PTP or their affiliates have rockets up their asses, and every case against 'friends' of the NCPO seem to be on the go slow/stop. That is not a sustainable and long term recipe for stability and trust.

 

[smutcakes]

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Have those people been charged with anything?

 

Um well of course not, its the army.......... therein lies a problem.

[JAG]

7 hours ago, Valentine said:

There is no one on trial for those.

In which case should they not wait for a verdict before considering applying a penalty?

[jamesbrock]

4 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

Um well of course not, its the army.......... therein lies a problem.

 

Haha, that's pretty much exactly what I was going to reply! No need now. 

 

As aussieinthailand wrote - if she personally gained from the obvious corruption own the scheme, then go after that money. I don't think anyone would complain about that. But to go after her personal assets simply because she was overseeing the policy—even if she was forewarned of the potential for massive losses—while not investigating, nor seizing the assets of those individuals who did personally gain SCREAMS witch hunt.

 

Let's face it, if a proper, independent, impartial clean out of corrupt officials were undertaken in Thailand, there would be very very few people left, including the current ruling mob. They are almost all as bad as each other, and the army doesn't have the international reputation is has because it's innocent, so the idea of equating innocence with the lack of guilty findings is ludicrous.

[aussieinthailand]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

She was warned by world bank and others that it would fail, during the running of the program the democratas came with rotten rice and where threatened with arrest for theft (using the law to intimidate is not only a junta thing). The person who did the accounting showed the loss and also was threatened. Losses were ignored corruption with fake G2G deals was ignored. It was gross negligence and a program used to get in power (vote buying) so yes go after her personal money.

 

Also use this as a precedent and go after ALL corruption this way. 

So the PM's brother has been linked in military budget to his account, and giving false personal asset declaration, and when reporters asked the PM about his brother and an investigation, WHAT did the little general do???   C'mon mate you know as do everyone in the country, he in a public statement told everyone to stop digging up this stuff... But when those that support the junta are asked this and other difficult questions they just choose to ignore it and then claim him as the hero fighting corruption in the country but when it comes to his family and his selected people then reporters threatened and told to stop asking questions. In short he has placed himself and family as well as selected others above the law. Sorry mate but he's not the squeaky clean hero some people think he is...

Question, Has a PM in your home country ever implemented a bad policy?  and did the bad policy cost the country money?

was that PM told by the political opposition it is a bad policy?

And was the PM personal assets taken due to a bad and costly policy?

[rixalex]

22 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

I agree, but currently they are simply making things up as they go along. For the sake of the country i don't believe this is sustainable or a good long term option. In my opinion the NCPO should start what they promised when they took power of the country, and that is reform these ineffective bodies.

 

They need to start building up public trust in these institutions to deliver quick, clean and fair decisions. Once people have trust in these institutions, decisions like this against Yingluck or any of her party will be far more accepted in my opinion. To an observer it appears now every case against PTP or their affiliates have rockets up their asses, and every case against 'friends' of the NCPO seem to be on the go slow/stop. That is not a sustainable and long term recipe for stability and trust.

 

Agreed that trust needs to be gained but realistically, who is going to change things? As soon as anyone gets in power they suddenly become disinclined to change the status quo because it's not in their interest. The Shinwatra family have had more opportunity to address this issue than anyone else in the last decade and a half, and they have done nothing. Now it's coming back to bite them and so now is the time when suddenly they and their supporters are crying for things to change.

Edited September 16, 2016 by rixalex

[Dagnabbit]

The witch hunt continues... 

 

Sure she was ultimately responsible for the scheme, but seizing her personal assets??

 

Did they seize the personal assets of the Army Chief responsible for the purchase of the GT200? The blimp? The aircraft carrier? The Rajabhakti Park project?

 

[Disclaimer: Again, I am not a fan of the Shin clan.]

The money she gave away did not belong to her. It belonged to the people of Thailand.

So yes, she bloody well should pay it back and this precedent should be applied globally.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[smutcakes]

4 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Agreed that trust needs to be gained but realistically, who is going to change things? As soon as anyone gets in power they suddenly become disinclined to change the status quo because it's not in their interest. The Shinwatra family have had more opportunity to address this issue than anyone else in the last decade and a half, and they have done nothing. Now it's coming back to bite them and so now is the time when suddenly they and their supporters are crying for things to change.

 

You make a fair point about the Shins making changes, but would ask you to consider:

1) The army has been in/out of power far longer than any political party over the past 80 years. Have they ever been inclined to change things?

2) Could political parties really affect change? or would it be seen as meddling and end in problems for them? The military have section 44 this time, and even they seem unable to make changes to entrenched organisations.

3) For all their opportunities to be so, the Shin Governments did not really make or do anything vindictive to those who opposed them or carried out the previous coup.

4) I believe that reforming police, army, judiciary etc is simply one of those things when parties do get in power which just goes in the to difficult/not worth it bracket. Any real attempts to reform/cut the gravy trains would see them having a very short spell in office. The money spent and favours owed by parties getting into power in the first place would dictate that they not take on such dangerous tasks.

[rixalex]

7 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

You make a fair point about the Shins making changes, but would ask you to consider:

1) The army has been in/out of power far longer than any political party over the past 80 years. Have they ever been inclined to change things?

2) Could political parties really affect change? or would it be seen as meddling and end in problems for them? The military have section 44 this time, and even they seem unable to make changes to entrenched organisations.

3) For all their opportunities to be so, the Shin Governments did not really make or do anything vindictive to those who opposed them or carried out the previous coup.

4) I believe that reforming police, army, judiciary etc is simply one of those things when parties do get in power which just goes in the to difficult/not worth it bracket. Any real attempts to reform/cut the gravy trains would see them having a very short spell in office. The money spent and favours owed by parties getting into power in the first place would dictate that they not take on such dangerous tasks.

Considered and broadly i agree.

 

(the only issue i would contend with from the above regards the Shin govts having not doing anything vindictive, but that would derail the discussion into things like the war on drugs etc, so let's leave that one)

[robblok]

21 minutes ago, aussieinthailand said:

So the PM's brother has been linked in military budget to his account, and giving false personal asset declaration, and when reporters asked the PM about his brother and an investigation, WHAT did the little general do???   C'mon mate you know as do everyone in the country, he in a public statement told everyone to stop digging up this stuff... But when those that support the junta are asked this and other difficult questions they just choose to ignore it and then claim him as the hero fighting corruption in the country but when it comes to his family and his selected people then reporters threatened and told to stop asking questions. In short he has placed himself and family as well as selected others above the law. Sorry mate but he's not the squeaky clean hero some people think he is...

Question, Has a PM in your home country ever implemented a bad policy?  and did the bad policy cost the country money?

was that PM told by the political opposition it is a bad policy?

And was the PM personal assets taken due to a bad and costly policy?

 

To be honest in my home country no PM ever made a mistake like YL, its the size of the health budget and not taken into the central budget claiming it would not cost a thing. In my country it would never have come this far as its illegal to do so. But if it had he would be criminal liable for gross neglect. 

 

Just imagine an amount as high as the anual health budget not taken in the central budget claiming it did not cost any money and those who said it would cost money threatened with jail. In my country it would be power-abuse and gross negligence maybe even criminal negligence. 

 

You will have no argument that the general should be investigated too.. but that does not excuse YL. 

[elgordo38]

8 hours ago, jamesbrock said:

The witch hunt continues... 

 

Sure she was ultimately responsible for the scheme, but seizing her personal assets??

 

Did they seize the personal assets of the Army Chief responsible for the purchase of the GT200? The blimp? The aircraft carrier? The Rajabhakti Park project?

 

[Disclaimer: Again, I am not a fan of the Shin clan.]

If you look around Asia selective policing is taking place everywhere. If she was dumb enough to leave her assets here in Thailand she deserves to loose them. The Chinese have been using every method available to get their cash out of the country. They loved making all that loot there but storing it under he watchful eye of Mr. Xi hmm no. Has she even been found guilty yet you know the official not unofficial version. jamesbrock above describes other catastrophes that have gone unpunished but then they were not of the red color. It's one of the advantages of a military regime in power they can selectively prosecute whoever they dam well please with impunity and with a small commission let their friends continue to prosper. No different than the rest of the world. Pretty soon we will all be at the same level as Greece where you must declare all your wealth to the government right down to the gold fillings in your teeth. They are looking at a one time "wealth" tax.