British migrant rights defender Andy Hall found guilty in a shock ruling by Bangkok court

[F4UCorsair]

1 minute ago, joeyg said:

Thank You...

 

I'm lost even further joey.

 

I was responding to DM07.   

[JustNo]

4 hours ago, canopus1969 said:

Again Thailand is on center stage worldwide - and made themselves look a total bunch of pr*cks

I often get an image in my head of how Thailand is seen on the world-stage; other nations look on at what is going on here much like how concerned neighbours may watch a child from their window sit and play with some toy trucks, smashing them together in a frenzy - They cannot intervene because it is not their kid, but it sure as hell is a funny / tragic situation they are seeing

[CMBob]

3 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

 

If someone makes claims about your company that makes you lose money or possibly lose all your customers  don't you think you should have a right to take them to court?

 

 If Andy Hall had hard evidence then he would of been found not guilty.

Respectfully, your comments reflect you have little knowledge about the pre-historic criminal and civil defamation laws here in Thailand.   Had you instead used the words "untrue claims", then your comment might be very fair....... at least in western countries; however, truth is not a defense to a defamation claim here in Thailand.

[manarak]

Thai Law states:

Quote

Section 330. Truth as a Defense

 

In case of defamation, if the person prosecuted for defamation can prove that the imputation made by him is true, he shall not be punished. But he shall not be allowed to prove if such imputation concerns personal matters, and such proof will not be benefit to the public.

 

it would be interesting to know why Andy Hall's defense was not able to prove the allegations made in the report, or why such proof, if it was made, was not accepted by the court?

[Baerboxer]

4 minutes ago, Hawk said:

 

 

In a Thai court the defendant's evidence can and will be purposely ignored by the judge if it contradicts what the police/ prosecution want.  Obviously the government were well aware of this case and how it could cause problems for their them, so a guilty verdict of defamation gives the company and the government a clean bill of health. He had to be found guilty.

 

I seriously doubt anyone in the government was particularly bothered by this case, or even interested that much.

 

The plaintiff is because they realize future export business is at risk as most potential customer organizations will contain statements about ethical sourcing, sourcing with dignity and anti slavery and worker exploitation in their annual reports and procurement policy.

Especially customers in the US, EU and West. Therefore they have to get the charges laid by Finnwatch dismissed legally. Thai Law happens to facilitate such action. Andy is a pawn in the game, but well knew the risks. Likely this will be overturned on appeal (guessing as we've not seen the evidence and transcripts) and then go on to the Supreme Court like the previous case. 

 

The government will only become interested if Western governments or large purchasers become interested and apply pressure. 

[Pdaz]

Nice one Thailand. Wish the softy Euro and UK courts would start jailing all the "human rights" and "migrant rights" leeches. Not to mention all the human rights lawyers getting fat on tax payers money. 

[Khun Han]

20 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Give over Eric. Did the last government do anything about reforming the judicial system or changing the defamation laws? No, they tried to use them to their advantage.

 

Nothing to do with the government. Andy can now appeal and then dependent on the result of that appeal either he or the plaintiffs can appeal again to the Supreme Court. That's how legal systems work. 

 

 

And the "Get Thaksin into this thread" award goes to......

[Retiredandhappyhere]

DiscoDan's faith in the Thai justice system is truly astounding!  Where has he been for the past few years?

[F4UCorsair]

I'm a little mystified why so many posters are outraged, when the headline indicates it was a shock ruling.   It seems to me that most were expecting that justice not be done, that is he would be found guilty (in their views), so why the outrage???

 

Reading TV posts, it seems that very few have any faith in the Thai justice system.  Why on earth would those people ever expect that he be found not guilty??

 

The world needs crusaders, but crusaders are little more than fools if they crusade where they know/believe that the justice system will not give them a fair hearing.

[Khun Han]

4 minutes ago, manarak said:

Thai Law states:

 

it would be interesting to know why Andy Hall's defense was not able to prove the allegations made in the report, or why such proof, if it was made, was not accepted by the court?

 

I think you've answered your own question. "Not in the public interest" will be the catch-all get-out here, possibly.

[pookiki]

3 minutes ago, manarak said:

Thai Law states:

 

it would be interesting to know why Andy Hall's defense was not able to prove the allegations made in the report, or why such proof, if it was made, was not accepted by the court?

As you note, the burden of proof is on the defendant to present evidence believed to be credible by the court. Obviously, the court did not find the evidence credible. Then there is the second hurdle to show that the information was of benefit to the public.  It is a very difficult burden and I think that you will find that conviction rates in defamation suits are about 95%.  Difficult odds to say the least.

[williamgeorgeallen]

4 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Does that mean he will now have to pay the Millions of Baht

in compensation, that Natural Fruit demanded.I think it was

a compromise verdict. 

It would have caused a Worldwide condemnation if he actually

had to go to prison.

regards Worgeordie

this is a suspended sentence and it looks like he will have to pay the 150k to get free. further court cases to come so he better get the help out of dodge while he can. unfortunately it is not good to get involved with things like this in thailand no mater how honorable your intentions are.

[Baerboxer]

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

And the "Get Thaksin into this thread" award goes to......

 

And the let's support some one being silly and trying to blame it on the junta award goes to .........

 

Guess you missed all those defamation threats issued by PTP during their "democratic" time in government then. Eric wants to blame the Junta if a dog craps and he steps in it. Ridiculous and so is claiming they are responsible for this.

[pookiki]

3 minutes ago, spermwhale said:

F****NG Banana republic with criminal defamation and libel laws. It's a CIVIL offense in civilized societies. 

It is only defamation if he knew he was spouting untruths to tarnish the company's reputation. 
 

Thailand is a skid mark on the world's underwear. 

Thailand's criminal defamation law was 'borrowed' from criminal defamation laws in the UK. Fourteen states in the US still have criminal defamation laws on the books.

[SunsetT]

Thailand at its very worst!

[DM07]

26 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

What a bizarre post.   I'm Thai'er than Thai, and they all love me???

 

Please explain what you mean, because I have no idea, and I haven't had a single expression of love from a Thai.

 

Even Thailand has gone beyond the witch burning phase, but is still lagging many developed countries in human rights, but many developed countries also violate basic human rights.

 

Just confirm for me that you are active in opposing your own country's human rights violations????

I absolutely can confirm, that I -as long as I lived there- was politically very active in a number of subjects and I still am contributing member to a number of international organisations, who fight a number of things, human rights abuse being one!

 

 

 

[DM07]

10 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

And the let's support some one being silly and trying to blame it on the junta award goes to .........

 

Guess you missed all those defamation threats issued by PTP during their "democratic" time in government then. Eric wants to blame the Junta if a dog craps and he steps in it. Ridiculous and so is claiming they are responsible for this.

Wasn't the Junta these guys in olive garb, who promised to do everything better than Thai- Voldemort?

Well...

[joeyg]

23 minutes ago, pookiki said:

Based on your prior post, you did work on issues involving child abuse. Have you been jaded by your experience doing the work?  Do you really think that no one cares?

Interesting observation.  I believe I have become somewhat jaded.  Frustrated and disgusted as well to see the corruption in the system.  At least we saved a few kids. And put a few guys in jail.  However it's like a drop of water in the ocean.

 

It alls goes into a "karmic bank account" I'm grateful for that.

[spermwhale]

15 minutes ago, pookiki said:

Thailand's criminal defamation law was 'borrowed' from criminal defamation laws in the UK. Fourteen states in the US still have criminal defamation laws on the books.

No they don't. In all states Defamation is a civil tort. There are some states that have criminal libel laws but that's not the same as defamation. 

There are still states that have anti-sodomy laws on the books, but like criminal libel laws, they don't prosecute them.

 

[Bob9]

If you are going to pull the Tiger's tail - dont be surprised if it turns around and tears you a new one.  

 

TiT and he should have known you have a different set of 'rules' here (meaning not really rules, but we all know them).  

 

But perhaps he did and went ahead with his ill advised plan to bring this issue to the Thai public's attention. He probably knew he should publish from abroad - but went ahead publishing while here, because he thought he was 'right' - in which case the man is a fool.  

 

Go home with what you can pal - before they throw you out and keep it (for the later 400 million baht compensation).

 

[grumbleweed]

29 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

And the "Get Thaksin into this thread" award goes to......

Now the genie is out of the bottle. Give it a couple more hours and it'll be written in stone that Thaksin was the judge

[pookiki]

5 minutes ago, spermwhale said:

No they don't. In all states Defamation is a civil tort. There are some states that have criminal libel laws but that's not the same as defamation. 

There are still states that have anti-sodomy laws on the books, but like criminal libel laws, they don't prosecute them.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_defamation_law

 

I was wrong there are 17 states not 14 that still have criminal defamation laws on the books.

[dick dasterdly]

25 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I think you've answered your own question. "Not in the public interest" will be the catch-all get-out here, possibly.

And of course, there are no transcripts of court proceedings - only a judge's 'summing up' of the day's proceedings.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

44 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Thai defamation laws are very different to what most foreigners are used to or expect. Even telling the truth, with evidence, does not guarantee you will be acquitted if a complaint is lodged. This is also a criminal as well as civil offense.

 

Knowing that, and the vagaries of the system, any comment that is likely to provoke the subject people / organization is always gonna be a role of the dice at best.

 

See how Andy's appeal goes and also see what pressure the Finnish and other similar organizations can bring to bear via the EU and national governments.

When Jews was send to death camps the Germans sending them to their death was acting within the German law, but that does not make the law right or justifiable or acceptable to the rest of the world. Rogue countries always pay the price in the end for their disregard of acceptable international laws/practices/rule of law and this country is moving closer and closer to rogue status.  As you said in the Thai justice system the truth is of no concern to judges and a justice system that disregard truth is doomed to be a failure.

[elgordo38]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

- Andy Hall's four year prison sentence is a suspended sentence. This means that if Andy Hall does not commit a crime during the two-year suspension period he does not have to serve the four-year sentence in prison.

How is that for civilian suppression? The Tooty Fruity Fruit company wants 400 million bahts well how do you like them apples. The way this is playing out they willl win that part of the case as well. That should permanently shut up any heroes that wish to walk in Andy's footsteps. Thailands actions against slave labor is about as narrow as one of my white hairs. I have seen some dog and pony shows but this one takes the cake. 

[dick dasterdly]

28 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I think you've answered your own question. "Not in the public interest" will be the catch-all get-out here, possibly.

Not at all.  He will have been found guilty because he defamed the company.  The truth of what was said doesn't come into it..

[Hawk]

31 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I seriously doubt anyone in the government was particularly bothered by this case, or even interested that much.

 

 

 

The government will only become interested if Western governments or large purchasers become interested and apply pressure. 

 

Supposedly this government has the responsibility to crack down on all forms of slavery, child labour etc. So if a company is found to be breaking the law then supposedly they are meant to be prosecuted harshly because western governments have been and still are putting pressure on this government to clean up the pond.  But this government has been and is telling every country that it has virtually won the war on slavery when that is obviously a lie. So a not guilty verdict would have proved that Hall's accusations were indeed true thus causing a problem for this government saying that they are not doing enough or even ignoring many cases of abuse.

[Pib]

48 minutes ago, joeyg said:

Is he at home or in a resort right now?

 

Being in custody pending posting of bail is not being in prison or serving the sentence....the sentence that has been suspended for two years.

[dick dasterdly]

32 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

this is a suspended sentence and it looks like he will have to pay the 150k to get free. further court cases to come so he better get the help out of dodge while he can. unfortunately it is not good to get involved with things like this in thailand no mater how honorable your intentions are.

Hopefully he will be able to find the 150K and leave Thailand.

 

Of course, this will probably result in him being even more vocal about various things .

[joeyg]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

Being in custody pending posting of bail is not being in prison or serving the sentence....the sentence that has been suspended for two years.

So it's a resort...