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University degree an obligation?


KevT

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To KK: Someone from Kingston should know what a CEGEP is.The OP is from Quebec,as I am originally. He can explain it if he wants to. Otherwise, anyone who might be interested can search Wiki CEGEP.

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19 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

Kevin  

 

From one canuck to another.

 

1st, language schools do not want you to speak Thai under any circumstance.    They want you to speak English only so that they look better.

2nd you can get work at other schools but you will not get it at top schools and no you will not get a long term visa or work permit.

 

There is a BA course here that you can take while you are teaching but it will take 3 years.

 

EVERYONE ELSE

 

Canada has 3 levels of education 

 

High school now grade 12 

College - in English terms for most of you it would be trade school (what it really is is a place where you are taught to do the job not the theory of it.

 

University where you get the theory and not necessarily the hands on.

 

Most Universities will not give credit for college course as they are not usually transferable.

 

 

Kevin I believe that you mentioned the monastic way of life.  If that is the case I would suggest that you contact a few of the schools that are run by monks and teach there.  It would probably give you the best education as to what you would be looking at if you joined the monastery.

 

Thanks for the advice.

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48 minutes ago, KevT said:

 

Maybe. It was a 3-year degree (diploma) though, with a school solely for college degrees, not just an exam (although maybe that's not what you meant of what A levels were).

 

Thanks a lot for the open university suggestion. Do you know if that that would be accepted to get a teacher's license in Thailand for sure?

An open university degree is the same as if you did the degree in a university, your degree would be a bsc or ba depending on the subject that you study. I'm pretty sure that it would be enough to get a teachers licence but it could take a long time to complete depending on how many hours a week you are willing to put into it. You also have to have commitment to doing it otherwise you may never complete it as you do it in your own time without the deadlines to get things done by a certain time.

If you do go down this route I would set out a timetable and stick to it.

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1 hour ago, KevT said:

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "being a lady from the Phillies".

 

 

 

 

I'm not the member who wrote that, but I also wondered for a second..then it dawned on me...they mean a female from the Philippines. "Phillies" as we all know is a baseball team in the USA and I've never seen Filipino's referred to as Phillies. The female Filipino teachers are usually, usually.....very well received by the Thai female teachers. They do what they are told and highly respect the Thai teachers. About half the Filipino males cause problems for Thai female teachers due to the inability to interact on either a professional or personal level. It's like cats and dogs. 

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Sounds like we don't have an actual name for his "school work"  is this possibly an Junior College program:   Associated Arts...A.A.

 

Do enlighten us...

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This is the same argument that we've heard on TV many, many times: I'm as qualified or more qualified than a person with a four-year BA so I should be able to get a work permit and a proper job teaching English in Thailand.  Unfortunately, it's just not possible.  The best option is to find a way to complete the four-year degree. 

I have my own experience.  In 1967, I was introduced to a Thai teacher of English at Chulalongkorn University.  I went to Chula for tutoring in Thai and begged to be allowed to teach English there.  I became pretty fluent in both Thai and Vietnamese.  I begged at Chula, AUA and some other schools but it was no go.  I teturned to Vietnam and my work for Pan Am, then started studying for my BA at San Diego State in 1969.  I was able to find no way around the BA requirement even in 1967!  Later in the USA, the requirements were increased to requiring an MA in Linguistics or English with an additional ESL certificate which took about a year to complete for college or adult school teaching.  For teaching at the elementary or high school level, an additional year of study in education theory and practice was required.  These days, to be truly competetive, an EDD or PHD is required and only these two degrees will get you a job teaching at a university.

 

I learned that you could be smart, capable and fluent in several languages but you just can't get anywhere without the required degrees.

 

My advice is to bite the bullet and get the four-year degree in the appropriate subject.  It should be Linguistics, English, TESOL or Communication.  If you want to teach at elementary through high school levels, an additional certification in education is advisable.  Good luck!

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On 10/3/2016 at 8:57 AM, KevT said:

 

So do private/non-government-run schools require a university degree (private English lessons, etc.)?

It's not the schools which require the degree. It's the TCT to satisfy a work permit.

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5 hours ago, duanebigsby said:

It's not the schools which require the degree. It's the TCT to satisfy a work permit.

 

.......and Immigration when applying for an extension of stay based on employment as a teacher (Police Order  138/2557, 2.6 and 2.7).

 

Immigration also requires a university degree when converting a tourist visa or exemption into a non-immigrant B.

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On October 4, 2016 at 2:03 PM, DogNo1 said:

This is the same argument that we've heard on TV many, many times: I'm as qualified or more qualified than a person with a four-year BA so I should be able to get a work permit and a proper job teaching English in Thailand.  Unfortunately, it's just not possible.  The best option is to find a way to complete the four-year degree. 

I have my own experience.  In 1967, I was introduced to a Thai teacher of English at Chulalongkorn University.  I went to Chula for tutoring in Thai and begged to be allowed to teach English there.  I became pretty fluent in both Thai and Vietnamese.  I begged at Chula, AUA and some other schools but it was no go.  I teturned to Vietnam and my work for Pan Am, then started studying for my BA at San Diego State in 1969.  I was able to find no way around the BA requirement even in 1967!  Later in the USA, the requirements were increased to requiring an MA in Linguistics or English with an additional ESL certificate which took about a year to complete for college or adult school teaching.  For teaching at the elementary or high school level, an additional year of study in education theory and practice was required.  These days, to be truly competetive, an EDD or PHD is required and only these two degrees will get you a job teaching at a university.

 

I learned that you could be smart, capable and fluent in several languages but you just can't get anywhere without the required degrees.

 

My advice is to bite the bullet and get the four-year degree in the appropriate subject.  It should be Linguistics, English, TESOL or Communication.  If you want to teach at elementary through high school levels, an additional certification in education is advisable.  Good luck!

 

Yeah, seems the degree is really important, no matter what.

 

I made the thread to really know what options there were. Now a have a better idea. 

 

In this situation, I think working many hundreds of hours in Canada, rather than going back to school for 4 years solely to be able to teach in Thailand, would be better. With that money, I could take maybe 5 or 6 3-month vacations instead. Maybe do some volunteering. 

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On 10/3/2016 at 6:51 AM, allane said:

Yes, if you want a Work Permit, and/or your employer wants you to have one. If you want to complete the Thai Culture Course, so that you will not be dependent on two year waivers, you must not only have a university degree, but an education degree, to be allowed to that.

Last month, I met a teacher at Immigration who had a WP and no degree

 

My own government school helps such a person by writing "Media Consultant" or something similar into his WP application. Voila, no need to get a waiver from Krusapha while yours truly sat about 24 hours on buses and got a stinking thrombosis for the bother.

 

I also know a teacher who has a degree and a criminal record. No problem, apparently. Start teaching and continue for a few months. While I had to spend 10 grand flying out when the Police check took longer, as I couldn't get a B-Visa without it. 

 

Typical, isn't it? All these  r u l e s and then there is the reality. 

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On 10/3/2016 at 8:27 PM, KevT said:

 

I agree. Though having 2 college degrees and having some teaching experience does have its own weight.

 

Colleges in Canada come before university. I did a total of 6 years of education (actual schools), in two different programs after high school. Sad that I can't teach in Thailand only because I don't have a paper that says B.A. (or other) on it. :sad:

Don't give up. The guy I met at Immigration makes 25,000 THB only with an agency. The other guy gets 32,000 and a free room or small house on school grounds.  

 

There are countless N-NES from another continent and the authorities haven't been checking credentials or TOEIC scores were closely, have they? Enough said! 

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I think that many teaching agencies would help the OP find work, even without a degree. It all hinges on the candidate's willingness to relocate and their flexibility regarding age groups. There are always schools desperate for English teachers and ways of working around the issue of a teacher not having a degree. 
It's going to be easy to find work if you can do without a work permit and are willing to live like that. Some schools hire teachers but don't support a WP and have their teachers do border runs or get education visas. 

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Kingstonkid

 

"Most Universities will not give credit for college course as they are not usually transferable."

 

Everything you said was spot on but this one might be just Ontario. Out west I was given credits at university for my college courses.

Many colleges is BC are set up to do 2 years and then transfer to uni for the last 2.

 

 

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KevT

 

The teachers I know who speak Thai reasonably well use it as last resort in the classroom.   I don't speak Thai well enough to explain things in Thai and I've been teaching English for 3 years now. Only

rarely have I asked for a Thai co-teacher to translate some trickier concepts.  At most schools the grammar is left up to the Thai English teachers and the NES are there for speaking and listening.

I can explain 90% of vocabulary with drawing.

I'll draw and ladder and some stairs but you'll translate into Thai in 2 seconds?

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2 hours ago, duanebigsby said:

KevT

 

The teachers I know who speak Thai reasonably well use it as last resort in the classroom.

I don't speak Thai well enough to explain things in Thai and I've been teaching English for 3 years now. Only

rarely have I asked for a Thai co-teacher to translate some trickier concepts.  At most schools the grammar is left up to the Thai English teachers and the NES are there for speaking and listening.

I can explain 90% of vocabulary with drawing.

I'll draw and ladder and some stairs but you'll translate into Thai in 2 seconds?

What's Thai for "Caution - overhead power lines !"

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1 hour ago, cumgranosalum said:


I have been doing a bit of research into this and found that fake degrees can even get an "official" embassy stamp  - an all-in process to get visa/work permit etc etc.

You failed to realize that you must bring it to a fake embassy for the 'official' stamp if the degree is fake.

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1 hour ago, tonray said:

You failed to realize that you must bring it to a fake embassy for the 'official' stamp if the degree is fake.

I don't understand your comment - I thought it was perfectly clear that even a fake degree can get a stamp that purports to be from the appropriate embassy...this means that people are not just forging/bending Thai docs but also "impersonating" other countries embassies.

The full extent of this has surprised me a lot.

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OP, working hundreds of hours in Canada and saving up for vacations in Thailand would certainly be an option although getting the four-degree might give you better earning power and provide greater possibilities for satisfying employment in the future.  Good luck.

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On October 6, 2016 at 1:58 AM, jadee said:

I think that many teaching agencies would help the OP find work, even without a degree. It all hinges on the candidate's willingness to relocate and their flexibility regarding age groups. There are always schools desperate for English teachers and ways of working around the issue of a teacher not having a degree. 
It's going to be easy to find work if you can do without a work permit and are willing to live like that. Some schools hire teachers but don't support a WP and have their teachers do border runs or get education visas. 

 

100% legally? Or it wouldn't really be possible without a WP?

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On October 6, 2016 at 3:39 AM, duanebigsby said:

KevT

 

The teachers I know who speak Thai reasonably well use it as last resort in the classroom.

I don't speak Thai well enough to explain things in Thai and I've been teaching English for 3 years now. Only

rarely have I asked for a Thai co-teacher to translate some trickier concepts.  At most schools the grammar is left up to the Thai English teachers and the NES are there for speaking and listening.

I can explain 90% of vocabulary with drawing.

I'll draw and ladder and some stairs but you'll translate into Thai in 2 seconds?

 

We'll have to differ. I just know it from experience from the student's perspective. I know my Thai wouldn't be as good at all if my teachers wouldn't have been able/couldn't speak English. I can ask complex questions (of which aren't discussed in workbooks) and then get complex and complete answers.

 

To get this level of understanding of these explanations, an English-speaking student learning Thai would need to know and understand every individual word, of which every word would require an understanding of their own. Even to ask the questions, he/she would need to know the correct phrasing and grammar in Thai, as well as each word, for the teacher to understand. 

 

It could be that it isn't the best approach for traditional teaching to high school kids, but it's a very very solid shortcut.

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48 minutes ago, KevT said:

 

We'll have to differ. I just know it from experience from the student's perspective. I know my Thai wouldn't be as good at all if my teachers wouldn't have been able/couldn't speak any English at all. I can ask complex questions (of which aren't discussed in workbooks) and then get complex and complete answers.

 

To get this level of understanding of these explanations, an English-speaking student learning Thai would need to know and understand every individual word, of which every word would require an understanding of their own. Even to ask the questions, he/she would need to know the correct phrasing and grammar in Thai, as well as each word, for the teacher to understand. 

 

Maybe not the best approach for traditional teaching to high school kids, but it's a very very solid shortcut. 

 

Try to draw: diligent, decision, false, discipline and intention.

 

Unfortunately, you'll find that Thai students will mostly give up speaking English if you use Thai. I have colleagues who spend half their time talking  to students in pidgin Thai and it's a total waste of time. I even worked with one guy whose contract wasn't renewed because he kept speaking to the students in Thai, though the funny thing was they probably understood more of his English anyway. 

 

My Thai is excellent but very few of my students ever work out that I can even understand everything they say, although sometimes the penny drops when I answer questions they've asked in Thai. It's not because I believe L1 has no place in the classroom because I feel it's a very valuable tool. But you're very unlikely to be teaching a class in Thailand where the positive advantages of speaking Thai outweigh the negatives. Work out how to put it to good use in homework assignments etc. where the students are working on their own or together. You simply spouting the Thai definitions of "diligent, decision, false, discipline and intention" isn''t going to help any students learn the meanings or make your class go more smoothly. Very often, the students will be way ahead of you anyway, looking at the dictionaries on their phones, at their own pace and accessing the vocabulary they want to learn, which is generally much faster than you doing it in Thai.

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1 hour ago, KevT said:

 

We'll have to differ. I just know it from experience from the student's perspective. I know my Thai wouldn't be as good at all if my teachers wouldn't have been able/couldn't speak English. I can ask complex questions (of which aren't discussed in workbooks) and then get complex and complete answers.

 

To get this level of understanding of these explanations, an English-speaking student learning Thai would need to know and understand every individual word, of which every word would require an understanding of their own. Even to ask the questions, he/she would need to know the correct phrasing and grammar in Thai, as well as each word, for the teacher to understand. 

 

It could be that it isn't the best approach for traditional teaching to high school kids, but it's a very very solid shortcut.

 

Not forgetting that Thai children start learning English in P1 at the latest, so at the age of 6, by the time they are M1 they have had at least 6 years of English lessons. You need to equate your learning Thai to a P1 student, and that is why L1 is useful at that stage, but should be phased out as the student progresses.

 

Personally, I never use any L1 in the classroom, my mantra if they don't understand is;

 

Rephrase

Reteach

Teach

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On 10/3/2016 at 8:27 PM, KevT said:

 

 

 

Colleges in Canada come before university. I did a total of 6 years of education (actual schools), in two different programs after high school. Sad that I can't teach in Thailand only because I don't have a paper that says B.A. (or other) on it. :sad:

 

 

Lie.

 

Colleges in Canada do not "come" before university, whatever that means. You must be from Quebec and "CEGEP" or a Canadian "College" is nothing like having a university degree.

 

I am a Canadian immigrant who also speaks a few languages, have obtained both a college degree and a university degree. I guess I get a job in Thailand and you don't.

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Lie.

 

Colleges in Canada do not "come" before university, whatever that means. You must be from Quebec and "CEGEP" or a Canadian "College" is nothing like having a university degree.

 

I am a Canadian immigrant who also speaks a few languages, have obtained both a college degree and a university degree. I guess I get a job in Thailand and you don't.

 

It wasn't a lie, but these are different places and there are different terms.

 

I don't have a university degree, but it doesn't mean I'll never get a job in Thailand. No need to be condescending. 

 

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Bro, it's just annoying to read a reply after reply telling you that university degree is a requirement in Thailand, but you go on about all the irrelevant diplomas you have and languages that you speak. Completely irrelevant as University degree is the only legal requirement in Thailand.

 

BTW, I finished a 3 year CEGEP in Quebec (btw, CEGEP is not a college, it's more like an extension of high school). Even in Quebec this is not recognized as a university degree. However, University in Quebec is only 3 years instead of 4 and they are dirt cheap, so there is your chance.

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Agreed, regarding your assessment of the OP. In Post # 62 I commented on CEGEP's , and provided a reference for anyone who wants to know what a CEGEP is. And in Post #2 (yes, the very first reply to the OP), I acquainted him with the facts.

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