Hong Kong activist Joshua Wong 'detained in Thailand'

[Publicus]

1 hour ago, HoboKay said:

 

He's probably lucky to have escaped having a chair in his face whilst in Thai custody. 

 

That's the default reflex reaction towards what he's fighting for isn't it?

 

Every millennial girl in Hong Kong is in love with the brave and handsome champion of their future.

 

Joshua Wong is indeed a 'hero' to Hong Kong boys and men. They look up to him and they faithfully follow his brilliant lead.

 

Mothers in Hong Kong wish Joshua were their son. Grandmothers worry that in Joshua's hectic life he may miss his lunch (one needs to know Chinese to know and appreciate this).

 

CCP locks up Joshua Wong and the population will storm the Bastille. Guaranteed. CCP knows this too.

 

Ye of little faith. And the ridiculous questions that are both constant and bogus. CCP fanboyz are indeed easy to spot. Losers all.

[DiscoDan]

Maybe Thailand is learning a lesson or two from the good old US of A http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/30/iraqi-nun-blocked-on-us-trip-to-describe-persecuti/ "An Iraqi Dominican nun known for her advocacy of religious minorities in the Middle East won’t be telling her story in Washington about terror and persecution under the Islamic State after the State Department denied her visa application to join a delegation to describe the situation in her home country."

[Publicus]

12 hours ago, MiKT said:

 

Tiananmen was  "out of the question" but it happened; and it can happen again if the Chinese feel that their grip on power is really threatened. Sanctity of life has little meaning for the leaders of this country.

 

But time has never been important to Chinese thinking and hopefully time will change things around and the necessity of strong actions to bring the country up to the modern level of prosperity (nobody should want to return to the feudal past) has gone and a more democratic system of government will eventually emerge.

 

Certainly the younger HK activists have role to play in keeping the attention of the world on the situation in China and the Thai government should be ashamed of itself in banning entry to peaceful protestors........but it won't be.

 

 

 

The points are well taken and they are accurate.

 

However,

 

In May-June 1989 in Beijing Deng Xiao Peng and his CCP never had the Massacre in Tiananmen out of the question. They were extremely and profoundly reluctant and tried just about everything to avoid it, but they went ahead to order it and as the world well knows the Massacre did in fact occur.

 

The crucial and deciding factor was when the CCP mayor of Beijing reported overnight on June 2nd - 3rd that the mass of the population of Beijing was on the verge of open revolt and insurrection. This and nothing else is what in fact set it off. June 4th 1989. The date that remains blanked out on the Chinese internet. In China people simply say 6-4 to which others nod in unity.

 

Hong Kong Umbrella Movement pro-democracy leader Joshua Wong speaks at Tiananmen Square Massacre annual protest outside the government complex at Admiralty Centre, June 4, 2016.

 

 

The global reaction sealed the CCP firm decision to never have a Tiananmen again. Not in any place, not at any time, not under any circumstance no matter what. It surely and with 99% certainty would be the beginning of the end of the CCP young and nervous dynasty's  67 year rule over their PRC. And quickly so.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Publicus
Revise text.

[Publicus]

14 hours ago, varun said:

 

Yup, and for a brief moment, his balls were in the fist of Thai Immigration.

 

 

Methinks they're somewhere else and on a regular basis....

 

Hong Kong pro-democracy Umbrella Movement student leaders Joshua Wong and Tiffany Chin pause for photo before strategy meeting of the Hong Kong Federation of Students at the Hong Kong Open University, May 15, 2015.

 

Eat your hearts out Brad Pitt and Angela Jolie. 

[smew]

Very sad, for the sake of Chinese tourists who spend nothing.

thailand giving up its independence,  a 19 yr old idealist and a very brave one to boot wanted to share his story to univ students, very very sad!

[metisdead]

A post containing a gruesome image has been removed. 

[HoboKay]

3 hours ago, HoboKay said:

 

He's probably lucky to have escaped having a chair in his face whilst in Thai custody. 

 

That's the default reflex reaction towards what he's fighting for isn't it?

 

I was merely making a reference to the 1977 Pulitzer prize winning image by Neal Ulevich titled Brutality in Bangkok.

 

2 hours ago, Publicus said:

 

Every millennial girl in Hong Kong is in love with the brave and handsome champion of their future.

 

Joshua Wong is indeed a 'hero' to Hong Kong boys and men. They look up to him and they faithfully follow his brilliant lead.

 

Mothers in Hong Kong wish Joshua were their son. Grandmothers worry that in Joshua's hectic life he may miss his lunch (one needs to know Chinese to know and appreciate this).

 

CCP locks up Joshua Wong and the population will storm the Bastille. Guaranteed. CCP knows this too.

 

Ye of little faith. And the ridiculous questions that are both constant and bogus. CCP fanboyz are indeed easy to spot. Losers all.

 

Is name calling necessary to drive your drivel home?

 

* I hope this doesn't infringe any image or posting terms and conditions.

Edited October 6, 2016 by HoboKay

[Publicus]

1 hour ago, HoboKay said:

 

I was merely making a reference to the 1977 Pulitzer prize winning image by Neal Ulevich titled Brutality in Bangkok.

 

 

Is name calling necessary to drive your drivel home?

 

* I hope this doesn't infringe any image or posting terms and conditions.

 

Colloquial descriptive terms are commonly used at discussion boards and in everyday life. So are slang terms that are commonly acceptable. Can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen.

 

Next question plse thx.

Joshua Wong and girlfriend Tiffany Chin attacked in Tai Kok Tsui last night

By Coconuts Hong Kong June 29, 2015

 

 

On June 28, 2015, at 9:40pm, Tiffany Chin Sze-man and I went to Olympian City to watch a movie, and we left at around 11:45pm. We planned on heading to the Mong Kok MTR Station to go home. 

 

At 12:02am, Chin and I were on Elm Street in Tai Kok Tsui when we saw a couple in their 20s. As we passed them (they were about two metres away), the man suddenly rushed towards me and grabbed my neck, punching my left eye, and making my glasses fly off. Tiff tried to block the man, resulting in the man kicking and punching both Tiffany and I.

I get attacked even when I’m just on my way home after watching a movie, and they’ll even attack my girlfriend too. Shameful."

 

http://hongkong.coconuts.co/2015/06/29/joshua-wong-and-girlfriend-tiffany-chin-attacked-tai-kok-tsui-last-night

 

 

It's not the drastic and barbaric Thai chair in the face that fascinates and attracts some so much,  but it is present day Hong Kong and it's not the first time CCP goons have attacked pro-democracy movement leaders or members.

 

There is no question the Boyz of Bangkok were not going to harm or to lay a finger on Joshua Wong Chi-feng at Swampy or anywhere else in Thailand. They instead leave that to their brethren of the CCP and its goons in HKG.

 

It could appear some people in or around Thailand might think the CCP (and its goons) are too soft.

 

 

Joshua Wong is taken by Hong Kong  police during attempt by student protesters to stop the motorcade of Chinese security chief Zhang Dejiang on May 19, 2016. Zhang was in Hong Kong from Beijing to warn the pro-democracy movement against opposing "peace, order and development" in Hong Kong. (Photo South China Morning Post)

 

 

                                          

                                                                                                 

Hong Kong pro-democracy activist leader Joshua Wong Chi-feng is detained at Bangkok airport, October 5, 2016. Wong was later released and placed on a return flight to Hong Kong by Thai authorities. The Hong Kong Open University student doing a First in English had been scheduled to address Thai students on the anniversary of a 1976 violent mass killing of Thai student protesters by masked assailants. (Reuters)

 

 

Hong Kong activist Joshua Wong attacks Thailand after being barred 'at China's request'

Teenager who became face of 2014 umbrella protest detained at airport and reportedly told he had been placed on a blacklist

Joshua Wong talking to the press after arriving back in Hong Kong.

Photograph: Eric Cheung

 

Hong Kong’s best-known democracy campaigner, Joshua Wong, has accused Thailand’s military junta of political “suppression” after he was barred from entering the country, apparently after Beijing asked for his name to be placed on a travel blacklist.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/05/hong-kong-activist-joshua-wong-attacks-thailand-after-being-barred-at-chinas-request

 

 

HK pro-democracy lawmakers protesting Joshua Wong's detainment in front Thai consulate.

 

https://twitter.com/WeiDuCNA/status/783545578856779776/photo/1

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Publicus
Insert suitable photo size.

[MiKT]

7 hours ago, Publicus said:

 

The points are well taken and they are accurate.

 

However,

 

In May-June 1989 in Beijing Deng Xiao Peng and his CCP never had the Massacre in Tiananmen out of the question. They were extremely and profoundly reluctant and tried just about everything to avoid it, but they went ahead to order it and as the world well knows the Massacre did in fact occur.

 

The crucial and deciding factor was when the CCP mayor of Beijing reported overnight on June 2nd - 3rd that the mass of the population of Beijing was on the verge of open revolt and insurrection. This and nothing else is what in fact set it off. June 4th 1989. The date that remains blanked out on the Chinese internet. In China people simply say 6-4 to which others nod in unity.

 

Hong Kong Umbrella Movement pro-democracy leader Joshua Wong speaks at Tiananmen Square Massacre annual protest outside the government complex at Admiralty Centre, June 4, 2016.

 

 

The global reaction sealed the CCP firm decision to never have a Tiananmen again. Not in any place, not at any time, not under any circumstance no matter what. It surely and with 99% certainty would be the beginning of the end of the CCP young and nervous dynasty's  67 year rule over their PRC. And quickly so.

 

As a person who lived and worked in HK for 7 years I really, really, really wish that you were correct.

 

But history does not favour your optimistic prognosis's. As you can see from last nights attack on Mr Wong and his girlfriend, many people in China are brainwashed into believing the HK democracy activists are evil enemies of the state; and to believe that the millions and millions of Chinese are going to rise up against the Communist rice bowl because of a few activists in a tiny enclave off the south coast is very optimistic indeed.

 

The Communist government care nothing for world opinion and bolstered by unbelievably evil idiot antics of the new Philippines PM and the fellow travelers of our current unspeakable's,  they are reaching out to consolidate power over the whole region. After all, the world did very little after Tiananmen and nothing at all against the recent coup in a country very close to you, so why should they fear any action by any country except the good old US of A and of course they not going to do anything about HK activists, or another Tiananmen, they are not even allowed to park their flat top barges in the Fragrant Harbour any more.

 

Sad to say it will be a long time yet before China is more democratically managed. But, we live in hope, as the Chinese are at least a race who have the best chance of bringing peace and prosperity to the whole region in the long term if they are discouraged from having the "East Asia Prosperity Region" aspirations once promulgated by the Imperial Japanese with such tragic results. Hopefully a strong democratically managed USA will at least keep them in check a bit.

 

But never lose sight of the fact that human life means very little to the Communists, the blood of hundreds of millions of people is on their hands and will not wash clean for a long, long time.

  

 

 

 

 

[Publicus]

1 hour ago, MiKT said:

 

As a person who lived and worked in HK for 7 years I really, really, really wish that you were correct.

 

But history does not favour your optimistic prognosis's. As you can see from last nights attack on Mr Wong and his girlfriend, many people in China are brainwashed into believing the HK democracy activists are evil enemies of the state; and to believe that the millions and millions of Chinese are going to rise up against the Communist rice bowl because of a few activists in a tiny enclave off the south coast is very optimistic indeed.

 

The Communist government care nothing for world opinion and bolstered by unbelievably evil idiot antics of the new Philippines PM and the fellow travelers of our current unspeakable's,  they are reaching out to consolidate power over the whole region. After all, the world did very little after Tiananmen and nothing at all against the recent coup in a country very close to you, so why should they fear any action by any country except the good old US of A and of course they not going to do anything about HK activists, or another Tiananmen, they are not even allowed to park their flat top barges in the Fragrant Harbour any more.

 

Sad to say it will be a long time yet before China is more democratically managed. But, we live in hope, as the Chinese are at least a race who have the best chance of bringing peace and prosperity to the whole region in the long term if they are discouraged from having the "East Asia Prosperity Region" aspirations once promulgated by the Imperial Japanese with such tragic results. Hopefully a strong democratically managed USA will at least keep them in check a bit.

 

But never lose sight of the fact that human life means very little to the Communists, the blood of hundreds of millions of people is on their hands and will not wash clean for a long, long time.

  

 

 

But never lose sight of the fact that human life means very little to the Communists, the blood of hundreds of millions of people is on their hands and will not wash clean for a long, long time

 

The Dynasty of Dictators in Beijing are 21st century fascists determined to reclaim their crackpot notions of a recently victimsed China recovering its rightful place to dominate the world. They believe Nazi Germany was too small to do it and the CCP China is the big one that will do it. If and when it ever comes down to it, the Pentagon will correct and remedy the racists notions of the Chinese.

 

Hong Kong, Asean, Taiwan are moving away from CCP Dictators in Beijing. CCP fears and detests Hillary Clinton for valid and viable reasons. Japan, South Korea, Australia and NZ, India, are joined against CCP expansionism. President Obama stopped CCP at the Scarborough Shoal, which was always the intent of the USA, as Asean and the region well know. Without Scarborough the CCP gains nothing in the SCS as the northwest passage to the western Pacific, between Phillipines and Taiwan remains beyond CCP control. Those islands CCP occupies in the South China Sea are dead ducks in a conflict -- in an instant. Duterte is a goner already as he's beginning to recognise.

 

Hong Kong wants nothing to do with CCP and HKG will resist -- openly but primarily via an underground movement supported by the vast majority of Hongkongers and sustained by Taiwan. The fact was indicated in 2014 when a hundred Umbrella Movement demonstrators were tear gassed by HKG police which brought out 100,000 demonstrators. The tear gassing mortified Hongkongers across the city who considered it barbarism. There will be no Tiananmen in Hong Kong because CCP knows that it will be its end in HKG, which will spill over to the mainland starting in the long restive South of the Mainland.

 

Not everyone in CCP needs to oppose CCP to make the PRC extremely difficult or impossible to rule over or to control. CCP China remains four basic geographic regions controlled by latter day warlords to include in the CCP, which is why Xi Jinping is in a sweat to eliminate his political enemies under the color of anti-corruption. The South adjacent to HKG and across the Strait from Taiwan is the most threatening to CCP in Beijing. One region in a state of underground resistance is more than enough to make CCP China a horrendous mess to the CCP Boyz.

 

Your points are well taken and appreciated but they exclude a lot of knowledge of both the big picture and of the many many details.

[MiKT]

4 hours ago, Publicus said:

 

But never lose sight of the fact that human life means very little to the Communists, the blood of hundreds of millions of people is on their hands and will not wash clean for a long, long time

 

The Dynasty of Dictators in Beijing are 21st century fascists determined to reclaim their crackpot notions of a recently victimsed China recovering its rightful place to dominate the world. They believe Nazi Germany was too small to do it and the CCP China is the big one that will do it. If and when it ever comes down to it, the Pentagon will correct and remedy the racists notions of the Chinese.

 

Hong Kong, Asean, Taiwan are moving away from CCP Dictators in Beijing. CCP fears and detests Hillary Clinton for valid and viable reasons. Japan, South Korea, Australia and NZ, India, are joined against CCP expansionism. President Obama stopped CCP at the Scarborough Shoal, which was always the intent of the USA, as Asean and the region well know. Without Scarborough the CCP gains nothing in the SCS as the northwest passage to the western Pacific, between Phillipines and Taiwan remains beyond CCP control. Those islands CCP occupies in the South China Sea are dead ducks in a conflict -- in an instant. Duterte is a goner already as he's beginning to recognise.

 

Hong Kong wants nothing to do with CCP and HKG will resist -- openly but primarily via an underground movement supported by the vast majority of Hongkongers and sustained by Taiwan. The fact was indicated in 2014 when a hundred Umbrella Movement demonstrators were tear gassed by HKG police which brought out 100,000 demonstrators. The tear gassing mortified Hongkongers across the city who considered it barbarism. There will be no Tiananmen in Hong Kong because CCP knows that it will be its end in HKG, which will spill over to the mainland starting in the long restive South of the Mainland.

 

Not everyone in CCP needs to oppose CCP to make the PRC extremely difficult or impossible to rule over or to control. CCP China remains four basic geographic regions controlled by latter day warlords to include in the CCP, which is why Xi Jinping is in a sweat to eliminate his political enemies under the color of anti-corruption. The South adjacent to HKG and across the Strait from Taiwan is the most threatening to CCP in Beijing. One region in a state of underground resistance is more than enough to make CCP China a horrendous mess to the CCP Boyz.

 

Your points are well taken and appreciated but they exclude a lot of knowledge of both the big picture and of the many many details.

 

Your points are also well taken and appreciated and of course we cannot write a book about the situation, but the sad truth is that if they have another murderous crackdown anywhere in China nothing will be done by any of the outside powers you mention apart from the usual flapping about in the UN. You only have to look a North Korea to see how powerless (in military terms) they are to prevent genocide of the population.

 

However, I don't see another Tiananmen happening in HK, it simply is not important enough for them to bother. Nor will Hong Kong belongers rise up in the same way as happened in Tiananmen, the protests have been for the most part peaceful and the population is always fearful of the kind of abductions that took place of the booksellers recently .... and of the many disappearances that took place after the return to China from UK rule. These were always feared when I was there and the main thought was to get out of HK to another country.

 

Taiwan is another story altogether, but you don't see the blocks of public housing flats in HK covered in blue on Taiwan independence day that you used to see years ago and no doubt the residents keep very quite about that now.

 

The Eastern Muslim majority areas and Tibet are still under the iron fist and will be bought under complete control by any methods necessary. What is the saddest is to see the way US influence is being eroded here and in the Philippines and this is a policy being actively pursued at all levels.

 

However, China will eventually become more democratic because of simple economic pressures. Now they have to have laws against owning more than three properties in some places and stinging taxes on unoccupied property and the prices are rising all the time. Also Chinese overseas investments and the basic economics of world trade will cause long term changes in the way the population is handled.

 

We can only hope that these changes benefit all the population and HK is just one part of a China that becomes a proper democracy.

 

But I reiterate, for those in charge, both now and throughout Chinese history, bloody repression is just another tool to ensure that powerful figures are kept in positions of authority. It will take a long, long time for this to change.

 

Hope you are right about Duterte, he is almost as mad as Mr Trump.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by MiKT

[Publicus]

 

Independence has now come front and center in Hong Kong to include several new political parties founded this year for this purpose. 

 

The 23 year old Nathan Law, who was a co-founder with Joshua Wong of the student democracy movement, was elected in September in a city-wide voting upset spectacular that made him the youngest member ever of the HKG Legislative Council. Law finished second in the defined field of LegCo members elected citywide (in contrast to by district or by profession). 

 

Millennials want a popular universal suffrage referendum on independence. Wong and his group want one in ten years, other more militant new political groups want it in two years. Which ever, we see where this is going.

 

CCP Dynasty of Dictators in Beijing know there is one thing they cannot do, which is another Tiananmen Massacre. And never in HKG where only tear gassing Umbrella Movement kids mortified the population citywide as shameless barbarism. Another Tiananmen would throughout the world make CCP Dictators and their PRC into a big North Korea. Xi Jinping would be installed in the Hall of Shit Pantheon alongside Kim Jong Un, Robert Mugabe, Idi Amin et al. That is not what or where he or the CCP want to go -- not by a long shot.

 

I don't argue the ruthless barbarism of the CCP Chinese dictators who are nothing more than contemporary emperors in business suits. Agreed, they don't give a rat's arse about life except for their own. However, they do have an instinct of self-survival. CCP won't do it in Hong Kong nor would they do it anywhere in the CCP except against perhaps the Muslim Uighurs of the Xi Jiang special region in the far west which remains a huge headache to the CCP.

 

Odd that the CCP backup grand plan, should their present system be effectively challenged or outright fails, is to have an Iran type of democracy, i.e., CCP vets candidates and what they can say and how they can say it and then there is a (limited and controlled) popular vote. This is what CCP presently does in HKG in selecting the HKG Special Administrative Region's chief executive and concerning two-thirds of the Legislative Council elections and membership. It's what universal suffrage advocates in HKG want to get away from yet it may be what comes out of all of this for the mass of the folk on the Mainland.

 

HKG independence in the meanwhile is the new issue in the territory.

 

We are however a long way from any of that, ne c'est pas...

Edited October 6, 2016 by Publicus
Refine text.

[MiKT]

21 minutes ago, Publicus said:

 

Independence has now come front and center in Hong Kong to include several new political parties founded this year for this purpose. 

 

The 23 year old Nathan Law, who was a co-founder with Joshua Wong of the student democracy movement, was elected in September in a city-wide voting upset spectacular that made him the youngest member ever of the HKG Legislative Council. Law finished second in the defined field of LegCo members elected citywide (in contrast to by district or by profession). 

 

Millennials want a popular universal suffrage referendum on independence. Wong and his group want one in ten years, other more militant new political groups want it in two years. Which ever, we see where this is going.

 

CCP Dynasty of Dictators in Beijing know there is one thing they cannot do, which is another Tiananmen Massacre. And never in HKG where only tear gassing Umbrella Movement kids mortified the population citywide as shameless barbarism. Another Tiananmen would throughout the world make CCP Dictators and their PRC into a big North Korea. Xi Jinping would be installed in the Hall of Shit Pantheon alongside Kim Jong Un, Robert Mugabe, Idi Amin et al. That is not what or where he or the CCP want to go -- not by a long shot.

 

I don't argue the ruthless barbarism of the CCP Chinese dictators who are nothing more than contemporary emperors in business suits. Agreed, they don't give a rat's arse about life except for their own. However, they do have an instinct of self-survival. CCP won't do it in Hong Kong nor would they do it anywhere in the CCP except against perhaps the Muslim Uighurs of the Xi Jiang special region in the far west which remains a huge headache to the CCP.

 

Odd that the CCP backup grand plan, should their present system be effectively challenged or outright fails, is to have an Iran type of democracy, i.e., CCP vets candidates and what they can say and how they can say it and then there is a (limited and controlled) popular vote. This is what CCP presently does in HKG in selecting the HKG Special Administrative Region's chief executive and concerning two-thirds of the Legislative Council elections and membership. It's what universal suffrage advocates in HKG want to get away from yet it may be what comes out of all of this for the mass of the folk on the Mainland.

 

HKG independence in the meanwhile is the new issue in the territory.

 

We are however a long way from any of that, ne c'est pas...

 

I think the fact that Kim Jong In and Robert Mugabe are both murdering and repressing away on a daily basis and nobody does anything serious about them really makes my point.

 

[Publicus]

23 minutes ago, MiKT said:

 

I think the fact that Kim Jong In and Robert Mugabe are both murdering and repressing away on a daily basis and nobody does anything serious about them really makes my point.

 

 

Wong and his Umbrella Movement leaders who were also leaders of the 79-day Occupy concluded there'd be no Tiananmen in HKG. It had been of a great concern to all of 'em going in to the protests, demonstrations, sitdowns and all else. They however very soon into it got a clear sense that CCP could not afford another Tiananmen. Not in HKG especially and in particular.

 

With a respect of your firmly held view, and in a contrast to it, from where this poster sits, the kids are correct. Their elder pro-democracy legislators and other democracy leaders of a universal suffrage concur. No more Tiananmen Massacre mostly because CCP tyrants are still catching global grief over 1989. It doesn't ever cease or relent.

 

It is a major reason Deng Xiao Peng is praised for his economic opening of CCP then every speaker quickly moves on to the matters of moment. It is why Deng will never appear on the money. Etc.

[Smarter Than You]

Say what you will, but this would never have happened under Yingluck's watch!

 

Democracy is always better than tyranny.

[boomerangutang]

4 hours ago, Smarter Than You said:

Say what you will, but this would never have happened under Yingluck's watch!

Democracy is always better than tyranny.

 

 Democracy is a good way to go.   But am not sure if I agree with you about Yingluck.  She and her brother are Chinese descent, just 2 generations removed from southern China.  All Chinese in Thailand have deep (often hidden) ties to their home country.  They know it's not kosher to brandish it, but walk in to any Thai-Chinese home or workplace, and there will be visible indications.  I'm not saying it's necessarily bad, just saying that it exists, and Yingluck and the people around her are no exceptions. 

 

Thailand has mucho influence from China.  To name a few:  MSG in most cooked/processed foods, always columns in corners of buildings (as opposed to inter-meshing bricks/blocks), many mirrors in buildings (feng shuey), dearth of parks, building on scraped earth rather than adapting to slopes, heavy roofs and very heavy concrete beams (instead of lighter wood or metal, which are just as strong), cherishing boy babies over girls, tea-money corruption, respect for good copy artists, hocus pocus medical remedies, insisting on new/retail items (rather than 2nd hand) etc.   Granted, some of those things are common in other countries, but it's enshrined in China.

[Publicus]

22 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

I read a first hand report on Tienamen Sq problem.  A BBC reporter said she was in Beijing, several blocks from the Square, when many troop carrying army trucks rolled by.  Soldiers in the trucks were picking off civilians with gunshots, like it was some fun sport. It should be noted that the Politburo brought in soldiers from far away, because (they probably knew) soldiers in and near Beijing would not be as willing to shoot to kill.  Beijing and China appear peaceful and prosperous to the casual observer, but that cold-blooded killer mentality is not far from the surface - if the Politburo feels threatened.  Note: the Chinese army, biggest in the world, is owned and controlled by the only political party allowed in China.  It is not controlled by the Chinese people - neither is its primary purpose: to protect the Chinese people.  It's primary purpose is to protect the Communist Party's top players at the top of the pyramid.  It's no secret that most of the richest men in China are top members of the Politburo.   The PLA's primary function is to protect those old men, and their money and iron-fisted power.

 

Been meaning to say the post is the single most incisive statement and analysis of the PLA I've seen by someone who is not a military analyst per se or some kind of war college professor, defense minister or a parliamentary expert on military matters or affairs.

 

Yes, yes and yes. PLA is not a professional military force. PLA, PLA Navy, PLA Air Force and, the recently created PLA Marine Force, are the arm of the Chinese Communist Party. Nothing more.

 

Its generals, admirals, colonels etc are Chinese Communist Party members. They are not military commanders per se. They need to know, and they only know more than anything else, Marx, Engles, Mao. It is happenstance if they know anything Sun Tzu and the Art of War, or of von Clauswitz or about Admiral Alfred Thayer Mahon who from 1896 has been the father of the 20th century U.S. Navy to date and who overturned President Washington's admonition to avoid foreign involvements in favor of a system of global alliances, bases, ports, sea lanes and routes to allies, partners, friendly nations that is the High Seas Doctrine of U.S. foreign and military policy to this moment forward and indefinitely. (Hence the U.S. Navy presence in the international sea lanes of South China Sea and USA support of Asean, Japan, India in contradiction of CCP designs and aggressions there, to include the East Sea at Japan and South Korea.)

 

PLA is not a state military armed force. It is the armed force of the Party and the Party only. Its generals and admirals are Party members first and foremost. They are corrupt political Party hacks controlled by other superior corrupt political Party hacks, right on up to Xi Jinping who is chairman of the Central Military Commission, the name of which would more accurately be the Central Party Commission on the Party's Loyal Armed Operatives. (Sometimes not so loyal either as Xi has had to jail two supreme PLA commanders for their coup designs and attempts, which was greatly more difficult than it could appear to be on paper.)

 

Yes PLA have their new technologies and weapons. However, its only effectiveness lies with its few elite forces and its fewer elite commanders, not with its bulky and impossible 3 million member army of a massive corruption. The elite Second Artillery Force for instance competently possesses the CCP land based nuclear missile and weapons arsenal, and while it is small, it is formidable. However, it's the PLA Navy and the PLA Air Force because they are controlled and commanded by political People's Liberation Army commanders who transfer to those forces from the Army to learn naval and air warfare by the seat of their pants. 

 

Unless and until CCP establishes serious, real and true government military academies, PLA commanders on land, sea and air will continue to be Party hacks who buy their positions and hold them by means of Party loyalty, not military competence, expertise, authority.

 

PLA critical systems of command, control, communications are political. They are not military per se.

 

Great post Boomer if I may say so. Excellent.

[tonbridgebrit]

20 hours ago, Publicus said:

Hong Kong, Asean, Taiwan are moving away from CCP Dictators in Beijing. CCP fears and detests Hillary Clinton for valid and viable reasons. Japan, South Korea, Australia and NZ, India, are joined against CCP expansionism. President Obama stopped CCP at the Scarborough Shoal, which was always the intent of the USA, as Asean and the region well know. Without Scarborough the CCP gains nothing in the SCS as the northwest passage to the western Pacific, between Phillipines and Taiwan remains beyond CCP control. Those islands CCP occupies in the South China Sea are dead ducks in a conflict -- in an instant. Duterte is a goner already as he's beginning to recognise.

 

Hong Kong wants nothing to do with CCP and HKG will resist -- openly but primarily via an underground movement supported by the vast majority of Hongkongers and sustained by Taiwan. The fact was indicated in 2014 when a hundred Umbrella Movement demonstrators were tear gassed by HKG police which brought out 100,000 demonstrators. The tear gassing mortified Hongkongers across the city who considered it barbarism. There will be no Tiananmen in Hong Kong because CCP knows that it will be its end in HKG, which will spill over to the mainland starting in the long restive South of the Mainland.

 

A load of writing that paints a false and mis-leading picture. 

"Hong Kong, Asean, Taiwan are moving away from CCP Dictators in Beijing."
What nonsense !  Thailand is in ASEAN, and is Thailand moving away from Beijing ?  This Joshua Wong incident shows that Thailand is very much "in" with Beijing. Thailand has deported Joshu Wong, Beijing asked them to do it, they did. Why claim that ASEAN is against Beijing ? We know Laos and Cambodia are with Beijing. And the Philipinnes, their leader is constantly bad-mouthing Obama, does Duterte say bad things about Beijing ?


"Hong Kong wants nothing to do with CCP and HKG will resist ".
What rubbish ! Yes, up to one hundred thousand people were in the demonstrations two years ago. About seven million people live in Hong Kong, they were all free to take part. Hong Kong is a small place, it was easy to travel to the demonstration, one hundred thousand people out of seven million is not really a big protest. Six million and nine hundred thousand people did not bother.



Oh, there was an election in Hong Kong in September. Below is  the link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_legislative_election,_2016

Hong Kong has pro-Beijing and anti-Beijing political parties. 58% of the electorate actually voted, great. The DAB got 16.5% of the votes, more than any other party, DAB are a pro-Beijing party. An anti-Beijing party came second, they got 9.2% of the votes. People can click the link to find out more. Basically, people were allowed to vote for pro or anti-Beijing parties. The pro-Beijing parties did actually get a lot of votes. Joshu Wong is in Demosisto, they came tenth.
 

[tonbridgebrit]

On 06/10/2016 at 4:20 AM, Publicus said:

 

 

Methinks they're somewhere else and on a regular basis....

 

Hong Kong pro-democracy Umbrella Movement student leaders Joshua Wong and Tiffany Chin pause for photo before strategy meeting of the Hong Kong Federation of Students at the Hong Kong Open University, May 15, 2015.

 

Eat your hearts out Brad Pitt and Angela Jolie. 

Regarding Joshua Wong's balls, you wrote "they're somewhere else, and on a regular basis".       


You either don't know about Joshua Wong, or you are creating a false image again.
Joshua Wong is a strict Christian, his parents are Lutherans. His father is a church elder, and his father is against homosexuality. Yes, Christianity is actually against homosexuality, it is a sin. Back to Joshua Wong. I'd rather speculate on Joshua Wong having Christian values regarding sex, I think it's unlikely that he is taking part in sex outside of marriage. Sex outside of marriage is, after all, a sin.

Here's a link. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/hongkong/11139904/Portrait-of-Hong-Kongs-17-year-old-protest-leader.html

[jayboy]

6 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

A load of writing that paints a false and mis-leading picture. 

"Hong Kong, Asean, Taiwan are moving away from CCP Dictators in Beijing."
What nonsense !  Thailand is in ASEAN, and is Thailand moving away from Beijing ?  This Joshua Wong incident shows that Thailand is very much "in" with Beijing. Thailand has deported Joshu Wong, Beijing asked them to do it, they did. Why claim that ASEAN is against Beijing ? We know Laos and Cambodia are with Beijing. And the Philipinnes, their leader is constantly bad-mouthing Obama, does Duterte say bad things about Beijing ?


"Hong Kong wants nothing to do with CCP and HKG will resist ".
What rubbish ! Yes, up to one hundred thousand people were in the demonstrations two years ago. About seven million people live in Hong Kong, they were all free to take part. Hong Kong is a small place, it was easy to travel to the demonstration, one hundred thousand people out of seven million is not really a big protest. Six million and nine hundred thousand people did not bother.



Oh, there was an election in Hong Kong in September. Below is  the link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_legislative_election,_2016

Hong Kong has pro-Beijing and anti-Beijing political parties. 58% of the electorate actually voted, great. The DAB got 16.5% of the votes, more than any other party, DAB are a pro-Beijing party. An anti-Beijing party came second, they got 9.2% of the votes. People can click the link to find out more. Basically, people were allowed to vote for pro or anti-Beijing parties. The pro-Beijing parties did actually get a lot of votes. Joshu Wong is in Demosisto, they came tenth.
 

 

I did click the link and discovered that you completely misrepresented the position since the Pan Democrats and Localists easily outnumbered the pro Beijing factions.As to the HK demonstrations few serious observers question their strength and significance though you attach meaning to the kindergarten argument that not everyone turned out.No doubt some genius like you in the late eighteenth century was claiming the storming of the Bastille had little significance because all Parisians didn't turn up.

 

Anyway back to the thread subject matter, the BBC summarised the Thai authorities press release on Joshua Wong with excellent succinctness - "official explanations for the deportation were contradictory and nonsensical and they still are."

[tonbridgebrit]

5 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

I did click the link and discovered that you completely misrepresented the position since the Pan Democrats and Localists easily outnumbered the pro Beijing factions.As to the HK demonstrations few serious observers question their strength and significance though you attach meaning to the kindergarten argument that not everyone turned out.No doubt some genius like you in the late eighteenth century was claiming the storming of the Bastille had little significance because all Parisians didn't turn up.

 

Anyway back to the thread subject matter, the BBC summarised the Thai authorities press release on Joshua Wong with excellent succinctness - "official explanations for the deportation were contradictory and nonsensical and they still are."

I misrepresented the position ???
The pro-Beijing DAB got roughly 360,000 votes. An anti-Beijing group led by Emily Lau got roughly 200,00 votes. What else ? An anti-Beijing party came fourth with roughly 200,000 votes, but a pro-Beijing party called FTU raked in 170,000 votes. And it goes on.
All I'm saying is, is that Hong Kong people were free to vote, free to vote for the anti-Beijing parties.
Did the Pan Democrats and Localists easily outnumber the pro-Beijing factions ?  Regina Ip, pro-Beijing got 167,000 votes. Erica Yuen, anti-Beijing, got 156,000 votes. 
You're trying to claim that the anti-Beijing parties easily outnumbered the pro-Beijing parties ?????  


Yes, back to Joshua Wong. BBC said "official explanations for the deportation were contradictory and nonsensical and they still are."
The important thing is, Thailand did this because Thailand is actually "in" with Beijing. Thailand is importing a load of Chinese goods, and exports to China. Thailand also rakes in valuable income from the vast numbers of Chinese tourists. Why on earth would Thailand want to antagonise Beijing ? Off-course, it makes sense, co-operate with Beijing, and rake in the massive benefits.

 

[MiKT]

14 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Regarding Joshua Wong's balls, you wrote "they're somewhere else, and on a regular basis".       


You either don't know about Joshua Wong, or you are creating a false image again.
Joshua Wong is a strict Christian, his parents are Lutherans. His father is a church elder, and his father is against homosexuality. Yes, Christianity is actually against homosexuality, it is a sin. Back to Joshua Wong. I'd rather speculate on Joshua Wong having Christian values regarding sex, I think it's unlikely that he is taking part in sex outside of marriage. Sex outside of marriage is, after all, a sin.

Here's a link. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/hongkong/11139904/Portrait-of-Hong-Kongs-17-year-old-protest-leader.html

 

Well this has been an excellent debate with interesting facts and clear views, although I still think that the PLA/CPC do not care what anybody thinks if they decide they need to have another bloody crackdown; and history fully supports my view. Anything else is wishful thinking and not in accordance with the realities of the way the world turns. I hope and wish it were true, but wishes don't line up with the facts.

 

However if Joshua Wong (and this seems to be hearsay) really does think that homosexuality and sex outside of marriage is a sin, then I say the Thai government were correct to deport him on these grounds alone.

 

Real Christianity is not against either of these issues; anyone who claims to be a Christian and supports such prejudices is no better than an ISIS/Taliban type fundamentalist Muslim with their fascist views on forcing others to live in accordance with their mistaken beliefs and horrifying punishments for dissenters.

 

I don't have much truck with communism, but it has dragged China into the 21st century and made a better standard of living for most; given the state of the country in the first half of the 20th Century it was probably the only way forward after the Japanese were kicked out. Now the country needs to find some better ways of making people have a more humanitarian outlook and care more for others - but I don't have any truck with fundamental Christianity either and old fashioned God and Guts, sinners roasting in hell is not the way forward.

 

Real Christians are people who are tolerant of others who do not cause harm, but will do their best to defeat those who want to impose their views on others by force.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jayboy]

I misrepresented the position ???
The pro-Beijing DAB got roughly 360,000 votes. An anti-Beijing group led by Emily Lau got roughly 200,00 votes. What else ? An anti-Beijing party came fourth with roughly 200,000 votes, but a pro-Beijing party called FTU raked in 170,000 votes. And it goes on.
All I'm saying is, is that Hong Kong people were free to vote, free to vote for the anti-Beijing parties.
Did the Pan Democrats and Localists easily outnumber the pro-Beijing factions ?  Regina Ip, pro-Beijing got 167,000 votes. Erica Yuen, anti-Beijing, got 156,000 votes. 
You're trying to claim that the anti-Beijing parties easily outnumbered the pro-Beijing parties ?????  


Yes, back to Joshua Wong. BBC said "official explanations for the deportation were contradictory and nonsensical and they still are."
The important thing is, Thailand did this because Thailand is actually "in" with Beijing. Thailand is importing a load of Chinese goods, and exports to China. Thailand also rakes in valuable income from the vast numbers of Chinese tourists. Why on earth would Thailand want to antagonise Beijing ? Off-course, it makes sense, co-operate with Beijing, and rake in the massive benefits.
 

I took my information from the link you provided.Localists and anti Beijing voters outnumbered pro Beijing voters.

I don't disagree that Bangkok has to get along with Beijing.I simply noted the absurd and meaningless justification for deportation.It would been better to have said nothing.

[Publicus]

2 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Regarding Joshua Wong's balls, you wrote "they're somewhere else, and on a regular basis".       


You either don't know about Joshua Wong, or you are creating a false image again.
Joshua Wong is a strict Christian, his parents are Lutherans. His father is a church elder, and his father is against homosexuality. Yes, Christianity is actually against homosexuality, it is a sin. Back to Joshua Wong. I'd rather speculate on Joshua Wong having Christian values regarding sex, I think it's unlikely that he is taking part in sex outside of marriage. Sex outside of marriage is, after all, a sin.

Here's a link. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/hongkong/11139904/Portrait-of-Hong-Kongs-17-year-old-protest-leader.html

 

This poster is well aware Joshua Wong Chi-feng is a Christian and that his father Roger is a Christian school anti-gay activist.

 

So now any off center posters would need to try to make sense of the fact Joshua Wong's lawyer is the British trained Michael Vidler who is also legal counsel to the HKG Pink Alliance for GLBTI equality and who has won a succession of gay equality cases in the HKG courts. 

 

The Umbrella Revolution of which Joshua is a primary founder and leader has the formal position in support of gay issues and causes. In fact....

 

Hong Kong gay pride gets boost from 'umbrella movement' democracy supporters

Leaders of the Occupy movement back call for equal rights for LGBTIs, however father of 18-year-old student leader Joshua Wong and himself the leader of an anti-gay group denounces the move

 

Two key figures in the Occupy protests, Federation of Students leaders Alex Chow Yong-kang and Lester Shum joined the parade and backed the call for equal rights for gays.

 

Joshua Wong, Nathan Law (elected in September to the Hong Kong Legislative Council), Alex Chow at Court August 26, 2016. The court "invited" the three student leaders to discuss their role in leading a storming of the government center complex in Admiralty in 2014 during the Occupy Central campaign. The Court nullified their arrest and dismissed the charges due to a late filing by government prosecutors (two years after the fact), as argued by their lawyer Michael Vidler.

 

‘Regardless of whether you are gay, bisexual or transgender, we all have the moral responsibility to speak out. Stand up to change the world. Confront unreasonable pride, prejudice, cruelty and indifference,’ Chow, the federation’s secretary general, told the crowd, Hong Kong’s South China Morning Post reported.

 

Parade spokeswoman Alice Wei Siu-lik said ‘umbrella movement’ supporters had boosted the turnout of the march but did not give an estimate.

 

http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/hong-kong-gay-pride-gets-boost-umbrella-movement-democracy-supporters091114/#gs.XQ8jsuw

 

So now the off center characters here would need to write up more ridiculous posts explaining why Wong is not a man of the cloth. They have everything else in their head only, so why not that too.

 

Joshua is aggressive in taking on the CCP Dictators in Beijing, however, he is not about to get into a public row with his father who anyway fully supports Joshua completely in his political activism.

 

Further, since when do 100% of a population turn out to demonstrate or protest anything, to include government. The statement that the universal suffrage movement in HKG is impotent because 6.9 million of the 7 m Hongkongers didn't show up is beyond laughable. It is idiotic, and it is moronic.

 

Here btw is the secret to the success of the 100,000 who did show up to support the Umbrella Revolution for universal suffrage in pursuit of independence....

 

Hong Kong’s pro-democracy protesters: “They can’t kill us all.”

 

As to Thailand and Asean -- Asean is divided 8-2 against CCP Dictators in Beijing in the matters of the South China Sea, as revealed since years ago in discussions and in the issuing of official statements related to Asean meetings. Only Cambodia and Laos consistently support Beijing in the SCS matters.

 

Asean stays out of HKG matters as each member government handles its relations with Beijing in respect of HKG in its own way(s).

 

The thread had been going reasonably well until the disruption of recent posts that are both off the wall and personally off center. Let's try to get things back in the reasonable zone again.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Publicus
Insert photo.

[LawrenceChee]

The boy is 19 and naive enough to believe the facts doesn't exist

Hong Kong belongs to China ; the fact it got a century under a British rule does not make it British or anything else . It belonged to the Chinese and is returned to the Chinese

Joshua if he truly believed in his aspirations for HK should understand governing 7 million in HK and wanting to make a real change in today's world doesn't involve hunger strikes etc

HK is an extremely practical society and while they have being identified as Chinese , they are Chinese with southern roots and you can see in the last protest while they clearly won some supporters , most HK were annoyed the Main Streets were blocked and transport diverted and if it spanned longer , the locals will be really annoyed as presenting your ideas is vastly different from obstructing way of life

He's 19, he has time to turn and join the CCP youth wing and try to influence things ...what people are forgetting is his party won a small % of the votes and can do little now

If he is strategic and climb up the ranks of the CCP he can influence policies that impacts millions in a province but he is clearly diverted in his views that protests is the way to go

In any Asian country , protest is the least effective way of getting your views heard.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[mcfish]

He's a threat to the junta, quite simple. 
 
Glad I am out of here in a couple of months. Embarrassed to stay here now.
 
 

Pushed out by a 20 year old kid? No wonder you failed here

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChee said:

The boy is 19 and naive enough to believe the facts doesn't exist

Hong Kong belongs to China ; the fact it got a century under a British rule does not make it British or anything else . It belonged to the Chinese and is returned to the Chinese

Joshua if he truly believed in his aspirations for HK should understand governing 7 million in HK and wanting to make a real change in today's world doesn't involve hunger strikes etc

HK is an extremely practical society and while they have being identified as Chinese , they are Chinese with southern roots and you can see in the last protest while they clearly won some supporters , most HK were annoyed the Main Streets were blocked and transport diverted and if it spanned longer , the locals will be really annoyed as presenting your ideas is vastly different from obstructing way of life

He's 19, he has time to turn and join the CCP youth wing and try to influence things ...what people are forgetting is his party won a small % of the votes and can do little now

If he is strategic and climb up the ranks of the CCP he can influence policies that impacts millions in a province but he is clearly diverted in his views that protests is the way to go

In any Asian country , protest is the least effective way of getting your views heard.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

Well possibly in China where protests will quite likely get you killed by the ruthless thugs who rule the country.But in other parts of Asia they have been very effective, not least in Thailand - both on the left and right of politics.In Thailand, though there have been aberrations, leaders and general shrink from murdering their own people.In China there are no such reservations.

 

The CCP is an impressive organisation but it lives dangerously.The unspoken contract is that it will ensure continuing and increasing prosperity in return for a monopoly on power and very restricted political rights for the people.To date this has worked well but it is an impossible guarantee in perpituity.THe main distinction between Chinese leaders and Thai leaders is that the former are mainly highly intelligent and capable people whereas many of the latter possess an almost impenetrable stupidity.I sympathise with the CCP leadership particularly in view of their stunning and unequalled achievement in taking their people out of poverty.I understand the patriotism, the need for firm central control and the wish to transcend the historical humiliation.It may be that these very intelligent people will find a way through - but I doubt it.

[boomerangutang]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChee said:

He's 19, he has time to turn and join the CCP youth wing and try to influence things ...what people are forgetting is his party won a small % of the votes and can do little now. If he is strategic and climb up the ranks of the CCP he can influence policies that impacts millions in a province but he is clearly diverted in his views that protests is the way to go. In any Asian country , protest is the least effective way of getting your views heard.

 

Wow, I  hope you're wrong about your closing sentence, "protest is the least effective way of getting your views heard."

 

For an establishmentarianist, yes, joining the largest or the only political party is seen as the right way to get heard.  Though, in Asia, that would entail being a good boy, always saying 'yes' to party elders, not rocking the boat for about half a century (join at 20, have a voice at 70, ....maybe).  That's assuming you won't be banned or ostracized during the 50 years you're waiting to be heard.   

 

Perhaps Chee has been able to learn some history of people who have made big positive changes without taking the establishment route.  Some names that come to mind:  Ghandi, M.L.King, Mother Jones, Harriet Tubman, or the hundreds of other activists who aren't household names, yet (through their far-sightedness, yearning for freedom, and tenaciousness) were able to push through women suffrage, freeing slaves, kicking out royal despots, kicking out dictators, allowing regular people to own land, and many other improvements. 

 

 

[LawrenceChee]

 
Wow, I  hope you're wrong about your closing sentence, "protest is the least effective way of getting your views heard."
 
For an establishmentarianist, yes, joining the largest or the only political party is seen as the right way to get heard.  Though, in Asia, that would entail being a good boy, always saying 'yes' to party elders, not rocking the boat for about half a century (join at 20, have a voice at 70, ....maybe).  That's assuming you won't be banned or ostracized during the 50 years you're waiting to be heard.   
 
Perhaps Chee has been able to learn some history of people who have made big positive changes without taking the establishment route.  Some names that come to mind:  Ghandi, M.L.King, Mother Jones, Harriet Tubman, or the hundreds of other activists who aren't household names, yet (through their far-sightedness, yearning for freedom, and tenaciousness) were able to push through women suffrage, freeing slaves, kicking out royal despots, kicking out dictators, allowing regular people to own land, and many other improvements. 
 
 

Yes this is Asia , we are taught from young respect the elders ....clearly some in TVF have benefitted from that sense of hospitality in Asia and got away with the Asian respect for the elders

Indeed most of the antics of Pattaya or the likes of strolling down the beach with a 19 year old sweetheart would have attracted glares / insults back home... in Thailand they are just too polite to tell you "bloody fool" in your face while one may pretend for a few days / weeks all is sweet and rosy

One need to understand in Asia this is the set culture , Joshua needs to know what he wants to change for HK , he has convince 7 million that youth is a better format of leadership and he has real ideas ; in Asia where largely experience counts, few young Politicians have made their mark

However consistently going against the system or establishment gives one little creed in the Politics of Asia ; he needs to understand that without being a victim of being swayed by western editorial or methods . He is trying to convince an Asian electorate or population that is in general bored of politics

Going against the establishment is the wrong strategy


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[MiKT]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChee said:

The boy is 19 and naive enough to believe the facts doesn't exist

Hong Kong belongs to China ; the fact it got a century under a British rule does not make it British or anything else . It belonged to the Chinese and is returned to the Chinese

Joshua if he truly believed in his aspirations for HK should understand governing 7 million in HK and wanting to make a real change in today's world doesn't involve hunger strikes etc

HK is an extremely practical society and while they have being identified as Chinese , they are Chinese with southern roots and you can see in the last protest while they clearly won some supporters , most HK were annoyed the Main Streets were blocked and transport diverted and if it spanned longer , the locals will be really annoyed as presenting your ideas is vastly different from obstructing way of life

He's 19, he has time to turn and join the CCP youth wing and try to influence things ...what people are forgetting is his party won a small % of the votes and can do little now

If he is strategic and climb up the ranks of the CCP he can influence policies that impacts millions in a province but he is clearly diverted in his views that protests is the way to go

In any Asian country , protest is the least effective way of getting your views heard.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

You say most HK were annoyed about the blocked streets, but more than a million turned out to block the streets so statistically that would not ring true in any real sense. The protests were and are widely supported.

 

Also I think that you are missing the vital point. HK was British for 100+ years and was a haven for people trying to escape the terrible events and killings of 50 million + people during the years of the communist repressions with the Mao reigns of terror and after.

 

The vast majority of the HK people were refugees until recently when Beijing has been trying to bring in more immigrants to change the politics and the refugees don't forget what happened.

 

They experienced real democracy under British rule (at least in recent years) and would like to see it continue in HK and spread across China. This frightens the Chinese Leaders as they would rather retain power the old fashioned way by the barrel of the gun; and this is why young people like Joshua (if he keeps his religion to himself and out of his politics) are needed to make waves and try to advance democracy. You can't do that in the CCP youth wing.

 

But making waves is why he was kicked out of Thailand. They certainly don't want any kind of democracy advocates swanning around here.