Reducing The Heat In The House

[Strange]

3 minutes ago, Colabamumbai said:

Thanks now Ban Bung does not have Watsudu but I told the G/F that Chonburi city may have.  I am wondering if it is worth the cost. About 5 x 12 metres. And how much it will really reduce the heat. Subdivided   5 x 5.  But the whole interior should be done.

 

We have the white tiles inside for the ceiling. Having the room subdivided this week metal frame and plasterboard, so we can have air con installed. I use air very little an hour in the afternoon and a few hours at night.

 

Only one window and it does not get the sun.

 

Home Pro, Thai Watsadu, all those big stores likely have it, just have to go look. Chonburi area will have way more than I had man Im in Surin Province and still found it. I don't know how your contract was written with your contractor but sounds likely that he didn't want to install it for whatever reason. 

 

Is your ceiling warm/hot to the touch? Tile roof? 5X12 meters you can easily air-condition with 2 small 9k units and some insulation but the tile ceiling complicates it. I can't remember but I believe the ceiling tile pieces are narrower than the insulation and the way the tile ceiling is suspended makes it kinda hard. Can be done though. 

 

[Strange]

3 minutes ago, Grubster said:

Don't run the fans with the AC as you are only moving the air across the walls, windows, and ceiling transferring the heat from them into your conditioned air.

 

I was replying to a guy that does not run the ac much and didn't want to but needed circulation. 

[Grubster]

1 hour ago, Psychic said:

I built the house to reduce the need for a/c as much as possible.

8" q-con walls, white metal insulated roof and large windows on opposite walls of the rifms, 14 foot ceiling in the living room.

As I said, if you're on a ladder, near the ceiling is the hottest part of the house, thus the idea of the vents.

For the vast majority of the year, we're fine with fans. Around Songkran this year it would have been nice to have a/c since it was hot even for Thailand.

So before next year, I'll put a/c in the bedrooms just to have somewhere to get a break from the heat if it's as hot again.

I have built the same, I plan on AC in all rooms, I think 24/7 AC will cost about 10,000 baht per month in the hottest months, thats for 200 sq meters. I hope I'm right.

[Grubster]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

I was replying to a guy that does not run the ac much and didn't want to but needed circulation. 

Yeah I knew that, is it OK if I add that little bit of information. If not, Sorry

[Strange]

1 minute ago, Grubster said:

I have built the same, I plan on AC in all rooms, I think 24/7 AC will cost about 10,000 baht per month in the hottest months, thats for 200 sq meters. I hope I'm right.

 

No way man way WAY too expensive. 200 sq meters air-conditioned? There is no reason to air-condition rooms that are not occupied. 

 

Can you please explain how many units and how many BTU each and your plan? 

 

No way 10k a month

[Linzz]

8 hours ago, Strange said:

 

Yep agreed. It is a multi faceted task, but it needs to be said that you have to use whats available to you. 99% of houses are block wall, steel rafter/joist/purlin, tile roof structures. Florida is light years ahead and still we use forced ventilation because it helps lower cooling requirements for a home even on top of the fact that its well insulated with double paine windows etc... 

 

Roof tiles here imho the biggest mistake a person can make if they build their own home in Thailand. There is no benefit to anything other than aesthetics. But they are here and radiate and hold heat like a heat sink well into the night. 

 

 

 

Traditional Thai houses need to be considered instead of imported styles and materials from colder  countries. Houses on stilts have great underfloor air flow plus lattice panel and other natural airflow systems. There was no reliance on fans and aircons which did not exist historically. Incorporating forgotten techniques into modern design could be useful. BTW I don't live in Thailand so I'm guessing on the practicalities.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Linzz

[worgeordie]

Plant trees and bushes around the house,some water features,

leave the windows open,only use fans,cool  enough for us.

regards worgeordie

[Strange]

6 minutes ago, Linzz said:

 

Traditional Thai houses need to be considered instead of imported styles and materials from colder  countries. Houses on stilts have great underfloor air flow plus lattice panel and other natural airflow systems. There was no reliance on fans and aircons which did not exist historically. Incorporating forgotten techniques into modern design could be useful. BTW I don't live in Thailand so I'm guessing on the practicalities.

 

Sure, if you have no intention to run air-conditioning. Imported styles are fine and building materials local. Another thing to consider is that the ground is cooler than the ambient temp outside, so when you cap it with cement and build a house on it, the floor is a lot cooler and stays that way year round. 

[Grubster]

8 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

No way man way WAY too expensive. 200 sq meters air-conditioned? There is no reason to air-condition rooms that are not occupied. 

 

Can you please explain how many units and how many BTU each and your plan? 

 

No way 10k a month

I have a 120 sq meter great room, a 40 sq meter bed room, and a 25 sq meter man cave. those three will be 24/7 AC. Two other bedrooms and four bathrooms will not unless I have company. I will have two 24,000 btu AC's in the great room. one for normal use and the other for Party's or on very hot days. I will have a 12,000 btu unit for the big bedroom, and three 9,000 btu units for other beds and man cave.  I have a total of 250 sq meters inside. I hope it is less but 10,000 is very affordable for me. All those units are inverter type so are capable of backing down to lower btu output. I was in the AC business for many years and I have found that if you are going to use a room at all in a given day you are just as well off running the air in that room all day as to let it get hot and then try to cool it all at once. Also it will keep the humidity low in the entire house which is half the battle.

[Strange]

1 minute ago, Grubster said:

I have a 120 sq meter great room, a 40 sq meter bed room, and a 25 sq meter man cave. those three will be 24/7 AC. Two other bedrooms and four bathrooms will not unless I have company. I will have two 24,000 btu AC's in the great room. one for normal use and the other for Party's or on very hot days. I will have a 12,000 btu unit for the big bedroom, and three 9,000 btu units for other beds and man cave.  I have a total of 250 sq meters inside. I hope it is less but 10,000 is very affordable for me. All those units are inverter type so are capable of backing down to lower btu output. I was in the AC business for many years and I have found that if you are going to use a room at all in a given day you are just as well off running the air in that room all day as to let it get hot and then try to cool it all at once. Also it will keep the humidity low in the entire house which is half the battle.

If its affordable and you are happy with it then thats what matters. 300% agree with the humidity thats the worst part. Everything from furniture to clothes and bedding lasts and stays fresh. 

 

I think when its all done and you play with it for a minute you will find a significant savings to be had by using what you need. I use the air more than most and still shut it off in the bedroom when I get up. Same with the living room when I go to bed. 

 

I think I read in another post that you opted not to have insulation over the ceiling and no "attic" ventilation as well. I think after seeing the expense you are putting into your home and AC, it would be completely worth it to invest in this area. 

 

insulation and ventilation is not just about keeping hot air out but keeping cool air in as well. 

[Grubster]

8 minutes ago, Strange said:

If its affordable and you are happy with it then thats what matters. 300% agree with the humidity thats the worst part. Everything from furniture to clothes and bedding lasts and stays fresh. 

 

I think when its all done and you play with it for a minute you will find a significant savings to be had by using what you need. I use the air more than most and still shut it off in the bedroom when I get up. Same with the living room when I go to bed. 

 

I think I read in another post that you opted not to have insulation over the ceiling and no "attic" ventilation as well. I think after seeing the expense you are putting into your home and AC, it would be completely worth it to invest in this area. 

 

insulation and ventilation is not just about keeping hot air out but keeping cool air in as well. 

Yeah I'm sure I will turn them off at times, The house I'm renting now is a brick pizza oven and I have to have it on 24/7 or it can't catch up. As for the ceiling you will lose very little cooling there unless the ceiling is really hot. In large buildings with very high or no ceilings cooling can still be achieved if you don't circulate the air a lot. I did the AC in many and I can tell you that when you take a lift or climb a ladder up 15 or more feet it is very hot but the cool air stays down near the floor. I think no hotter than it is above my ceiling the payback on the insulation would be many years. I have seventy ceiling lights that cannot be wrapped or covered in insulation anyway as they will burn up. Also this insulation with the foil on it is a pain in the ass to fit together nicely and if it isn't tightly together you are wasting your time. Back home I used 15" thick raw fiberglass insulation fitted together very carefully as it gets to minus 25 degrees there at times and cold air definitely falls. Insulation is very expensive here too.

[Naam]

17 hours ago, louse1953 said:

Learn from the people around you.They worked this out centuries ago,including houses on stilts.

no thank you!

[Naam]

15 hours ago, Grubster said:

There will be no insulation on my ceiling as I feel it won't need it. I was in the HVAC business for many years in the US and I know how hot a well ventilated attic gets there. Most roofs I worked under there were asphalt shingles on plywood, the heat radiates thru that like crazy.

please Sir, i beg of you! what crime did i commit that you are torturing me with this kind of horror tales?

[Naam]

14 hours ago, Strange said:

 

No way man way WAY too expensive. 200 sq meters air-conditioned? There is no reason to air-condition rooms that are not occupied. 

 

Can you please explain how many units and how many BTU each and your plan? 

 

No way 10k a month

 

about 450m² of our home is airconditioned 24/7 @ 26-27ºC, another 150m² is airconditioned for 2-3 hours in the evening @ 28ºC. electricity bill varies between 12,000 and 21,000 Baht per month. out of that aircon consumption is ~50 to 60% from april till september and ~35 to 45% from october till march. so i think 10,000 Baht for 200m² is a fair estimate.

 

by the way, there are valid reasons to aircondition rooms which are not or hardly occupied, e.g. antique furniture, works of art like sculptures and paintings and oriental rugs.

[Naam]

Quote

14 hours ago, Linzz said:

 

Traditional Thai houses need to be considered instead of imported styles and materials from colder  countries. Houses on stilts have great underfloor air flow plus lattice panel and other natural airflow systems. There was no reliance on fans and aircons which did not exist historically. Incorporating forgotten techniques into modern design could be useful. BTW I don't live in Thailand so I'm guessing on the practicalities.

 

 

14 hours ago, Strange said:

 

Sure, if you have no intention to run air-conditioning. Imported styles are fine and building materials local. Another thing to consider is that the ground is cooler than the ambient temp outside, so when you cap it with cement and build a house on it, the floor is a lot cooler and stays that way year round. 

 

correct! but hardly anybody will believe you and keep on telling fairy tales how homes on stilts will be cooler because "the hot ambient air can pass below the home".

[Strange]

25 minutes ago, Naam said:

 

about 450m² of our home is airconditioned 24/7 @ 26-27ºC, another 150m² is airconditioned for 2-3 hours in the evening @ 28ºC. electricity bill varies between 12,000 and 21,000 Baht per month. out of that aircon consumption is ~50 to 60% from april till september and ~35 to 45% from october till march. so i think 10,000 Baht for 200m² is a fair estimate.

 

by the way, there are valid reasons to aircondition rooms which are not or hardly occupied, e.g. antique furniture, works of art like sculptures and paintings and oriental rugs.

 

Agreed 100% I would love to climate control the entire house. Just cringe at the electric bill. In the states I had a 2600 sq ft house (central heat and air 72F) and 2000 sq ft shop (non climate controlled) with welders and compressors and in the summer its was about 7,000 baht for the house and the shop, and the price for electricity is slightly more expensive at home with a climate just as hot and humid. 

 

Whats your power supply? 3 Phase? 

 

Thats a big ass house btw

Edited October 12, 2016 by Strange

[Naam]

23 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Agreed 100% I would love to climate control the entire house. Just cringe at the electric bill. In the states I had a 2600 sq ft house (central heat and air 72F) and 2000 sq ft shop (non climate controlled) with welders and compressors and in the summer its was about 7,000 baht for the house and the shop, and the price for electricity is slightly more expensive at home with a climate just as hot and humid. 

 

Whats your power supply? 3 Phase? 

 

Thats a big ass house btw

-power supply is of course 3-phase, available max current 150 amps, installed aircon capacity ~270,000 btu/h (actual used capacity of course much lower),

 

-near identical to our home we built in Florida,

 

-unfortunately being an IRS slave you don't have the advantages of a German citizen living in Thailand income tax free using only 4-6% of his tax savings to pay for his utility bills.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2016 by Naam
grammar

[Strange]

14 minutes ago, Naam said:

-power supply is of course 3-phase, installed capacity ~270,000 btu/h (actual used capacity of course much lower),

 

-near identical to our home we built in Florida,

 

-unfortunately being an IRS slave you don't have the advantages of a German citizen living in Thailand income tax free and uses 4-6% of his tax savings to pay for his utility bills.

 

Im on the IRS Physical Presence Exemption but I'm young and invest and keep my emergency fund full with the tax savings. Live here full time but everything I do here is a hobby or investment not a life long plan. Everytime I build a house I sell it as soon as I can get 20-25%

 

Different strokes & stuff

 

Did you have 3 phase available when building, or did the PEA have to bring it out to you?

Edited October 12, 2016 by Strange

[Naam]

12 minutes ago, Strange said:

Did you have 3 phase available when building, or did the PEA have to bring it out to you?

3-phase was available when we built but meter was installed only after home was ready to move in. during building period only single phase provisional connection.

[Naam]

18 minutes ago, Strange said:

Everytime I build a house I sell it as soon as I can get 20-25%

Different strokes & stuff

may the force be with you!

i gave up working 26 years, 11 months and 12 days ago

Edited October 12, 2016 by Naam

[masuk]

On 11/10/2016 at 8:16 PM, Strange said:

 

lol he said he wanted to vent his ceiling into his roof area cause the heat was collecting up top. Why do that if you have any intention to run aircon at any time. 

 

Put up a couple ceiling fans and switch the rotation to pull air from the bottom up and circulate. Or if it feels cooler blow from the top down. If your windows are open and there is heat collecting at the top, pulling air from the bottom to the top will help draw outside air into the house.

 

unless of course its just hot as balls everywhere, then just close up and turn the aircon on. 

 

 

[Strange]

31 minutes ago, masuk said:

<<Snip Youtube Vid>>

 

And? I mean we got them too but whats your point?

 

Edit:

 

Not trying to be combative, genuinely curious.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Strange

[Grubster]

7 hours ago, Naam said:

 

 

 

correct! but hardly anybody will believe you and keep on telling fairy tales how homes on stilts will be cooler because "the hot ambient air can pass below the home".

The brick oven I live in is on stilts, the floor is hot at all times, I mean hot, heat rises its a no brainer. My new home is on a concrete slab, and I believe the only way to build in this climate.

[Strange]

31 minutes ago, masuk said:

<<Snip>>

 

If you are talking about a Hip Roof then yeah they are a good system. 

[Naam]

1 hour ago, Grubster said:

The brick oven I live in is on stilts, the floor is hot at all times, I mean hot, heat rises its a no brainer. My new home is on a concrete slab, and I believe the only way to build in this climate.

you bad'un! then you don't follow traditional Thai building rules

[taichiplanet]

11 hours ago, Grubster said:

 

18 hours ago, Naam said:

 

 

 

correct! but hardly anybody will believe you and keep on telling fairy tales how homes on stilts will be cooler because "the hot ambient air can pass below the home".

The brick oven I live in is on stilts, the floor is hot at all times, I mean hot, heat rises its a no brainer. My new home is on a concrete slab, and I believe the only way to build in this climate.

 

you can enclose the stilted area to take advantage of thermal mass coolth (absensce of warmth).

 

Some great info on Passive Cooling from an Australian government website

http://www.yourhome.gov.au/passive-design/passive-cooling

 

i use an air-con mainly to dehumidify to stop any mould. As i get older i do appreciate the cool side affect!

[whaleboneman]

On 10/11/2016 at 2:44 AM, Strange said:

 

Man, this is a point of contention for a lot DIY guys building in Thailand. IMO, if you build here, build the "Thai Way" with local materials but in a foreigner design. Saves so much headache and everything is mostly understood. 

 

With this in mind, there are only 3 real types, tile, fiber type, and a metal type

 

The tile roof being the most expensive option and the most restrictive in room size. It requires a lot more roof steel for support, and on top of that, its hard to go over large spans with all that weight. There are ways around this but its just increasing cost. They are a heat sink, you can easily pry them up and get into someones house... The only good thing is aesthetics, and even that is us to the person. 

 

IMHO the best option is a colorbond roofing material, light, reflective, very durable, installed in a day, can span greater distances with less support steel, cools off as soon as the sun goes down.... On and on and on. 

The money saved going for a colorbond roof, can be put into 6" insulation and reflective sheeting under the metal and you end up with a better roof and insulation for about the same money as tile. Its cooler and better in just about every way. Some will say that its loud during the rain, but its not at all if you spend the money on insulation. Real insulation and you can barely hear the rain inside the house. 

Hi. Is colorbond a brand name? Thanks.

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, whaleboneman said:

Hi. Is colorbond a brand name? Thanks.

 

I think it's this:

 

http://www.bluescope.co.th/bluescope-thailand-en/

 

You see it everywhere in DIY stores and on houses, I always thought it was a cheap alternative and I think some Thai's will get hung up on not having CPAC tiles, but it does look very suitable.

[bobbin]

Since there seem to be some knowledgeable people commenting on this thread (especially Naam, the AC guru) I would appreciate your thoughts on a system I saw on television.

 

 

This fellow runs a small eco-resort in Cambodia. What he did was install piping underground with an intake above ground (fan assisted) and an outlet into each small bungalow (also fan assisted). These were quite small fans btw. There was a constant flow of cooled air coming into the bungalows for only the cost of running the small fans.

 

Coming from Canada, I remember talk of geo-thermal heating (the reverse process of using warmer temps in the earth to heat).

 

I remember thinking what an ingenious low cost cooling option!

 

He also was treating his waste water by running it through a system of pools with water plants filtering the water.

[Strange]

Just now, chiang mai said:

 

I think it's this:

 

http://www.bluescope.co.th/bluescope-thailand-en/

 

You see it everywhere in DIY stores and on houses, I always thought it was a cheap alternative and I think some Thai's will get hung up on not having CPAC tiles, but it does look very suitable.

 

Not a cheap alternative at all but you are 300% correct that thais will be like "Why you cheap" because they are very uninformed and don't wanna "look" (face) bad. 

 

Its cheap cost wise but superior in just about every way imho

 

We use it in the states and its hurricane rated and guaranteed for 20 years.