The expression: You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl....

[bokningar]

On 10/21/2016 at 3:53 PM, novo58 said:

how much do any of us really know about the female in our lives....not matter what country she is from.

 

What do any of us here on TVF really know about our wife or girlfriend from before we first met her ......................only what she has told us 

 

At least with a bargirl you know what you have

And better not ask how many she has had 

[oldhippy]

Let's rename this thread.

"The Male Chauvinistic Pig Thread" would be a much better title.

 

[i claudius]

It probably has more to do with an age gap. An old guy marries a much younger Thai girl - what else are they  (at home) going to think?

 

Even if she was never a whore, they know (or at least have a pretty good idea) why she's with him.

Don't say that to my ex ,she was 16 years younger than me, oh and Italian. And my first wife was 10 years younger than me.she was English,my now wife Thai is 23 years younger than me,God ,I was such a "hansom man" lol I wish I knew who that old sod in the mirror is?

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[metisdead]

A number of posts and replies have been removed:

 

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.
 

[tropo]

21 minutes ago, i claudius said:

Don't say that to my ex ,she was 16 years younger than me, oh and Italian. And my first wife was 10 years younger than me.she was English,my now wife Thai is 23 years younger than me,God ,I was such a "hansom man" lol I wish I knew who that old sod in the mirror is?

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The age gap (problem?) does depend on the age of the guy too. 10 and 16 year gaps are not considered unusual (or perverted) back at home if the guy is in his late 20's, 30's or early 40's.

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

You think all BG's are in it because they are messed up?

 

The reason most are in it is because they have it on good authority (parents, sisters, friends, cousins etc) it's a great way to score generous foreigners and very good money compared to working on the farm.

 

A lot of these girls end up in nice houses and driving around in nice cars. Sure, only a percentage achieve their goals, but it's guaranteed they will not succeed if they stay on the farm.

 

I didn't say BG's are messed up, I said they're usually in a "messed up situation."  Most BG's are single mothers.  They're not from wealthy families and don't have marketable skills or education.  That's what I mean by "messed up situation." 

 

Your last sentence implies that to "succeed," it's all about money.  You don't seem to realize that there are millions of Thais living normal, average, middle class lives and are quite happy/content.  The vast majority of Thai women do not need/want to go to Pattaya and sell their bodies to "succeed." 

[zorro1]

Never had this discussion about prostitutes with men in the West. However swap the name hooker to bar girl in Thailand and men line up with marriage proposals.. Total losers but hey.. Up to them.

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[sanemax]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

 

A lot of these girls end up in nice houses and driving around in nice cars. Sure, only a percentage achieve their goals, but it's guaranteed they will not succeed if they stay on the farm.

 

   Only the ones that marry a rich guy , the ones who stay single end up always living a hand to mouth existence, spending money as soon as they get it .

   I could be quite a lucrative trade with a bit of planing .

Not having a child back in the village .

Start work at 20 years old

Easily save a 1000 Baht a day .

Quite a lot more with a few big paydays

Then quit 5 years later , with 2-3 million Baht banked

Set up for life .

Then get married, and them have babies

But they all squander the money .

Is anyone aware of any working girls who have worked and saved and gotton out the trade ?

 

[Johpa]

8 hours ago, YeahSiam said:

The vast majority of Thai women from that type of background don't resort to opening their legs for strangers so your point is irrelevant

 

A majority yes, but vast majority is debatable. In the 1980s ILO report from Achaan Pasuk, "From Peasant Girls to Bangkok Masseuses", she estimated about 30% of Thai women had worked in the sex industry at one time.  Today you can Google "sugar daddies" or "sugar babies" to see how common it is for American college kids to pay for tuition in a similar manner.  So my point is not irrelevant and I maintain that yes, there for the grace of god go you!   If you had come from a poor background with few options, you too would very likely consider selling your sexual services in the back rows of a movie theater in exchange for money.

[tropo]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

 

I didn't say BG's are messed up, I said they're usually in a "messed up situation."  Most BG's are single mothers.  They're not from wealthy families and don't have marketable skills or education.  That's what I mean by "messed up situation." 

 

Your last sentence implies that to "succeed," it's all about money.  You don't seem to realize that there are millions of Thais living normal, average, middle class lives and are quite happy/content.  The vast majority of Thai women do not need/want to go to Pattaya and sell their bodies to "succeed." 

Just because I didn't mention something you came to the conclusion that "I don't seem to realise" it? You'd be surprised how much I realise from living in SE Asia for over 15 years.

 

"succeed" in the context of this discussion IS all about money. A lot of these girls realise the alternatives, such as "living normal, average, middle class (?) lives" and won't be happy or content with that. Do YOU realise that these seemingly "happy/content" average people are not as happy as you may think. They see many girls in their home towns living the good life (big houses, cars - don't have to work) and that is what makes the "normal, average" seem very mundane by comparison.

 

Some of them succeed. You've got to be in it to win it. If you go to the top gogos you'll see many girls who have never given birth. Even girls who have can still succeed.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2016 by tropo

[rogeroc]

7 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

I have never been with a bargirl or a prostitute, so I don't know what a heck you guys are talking about.

 

A meaningless and irrelevent comment but at least you have refrained from criticising bargirls this time.

 

Maybe just worth you going to have a chat with a bargirl one day, buy her a drink, get to know her just a little, don't need to sleep with her!  Just do that a few times and you may, hopefully, be a little less insulting to bargirls in general in future. Hey why not even ask her the question posed by the OP,  then you may be able to make some sensible comment on bargirl related threads.

Edited October 23, 2016 by rogeroc

[tropo]

On 10/23/2016 at 1:04 AM, ScotBkk said:

6,000 Baht


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I don't think so. We should do a comparison with NZ, where prostitution is now a legit, taxable occupation. There isn't 6000 baht difference, in fact, depending on who you get, it's probably more expensive here than over in NZ.

[rogeroc]

6 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

  

Is anyone aware of any working girls who have worked and saved and gotton out the trade ?

 

 

 

I know exactly the point you are making,  i have witnessed much squandering, but i do know a few that have already  gained long term from it (eg own a home in the country) and certainly a number whose family / kids have benefitted from their high earnings, or the kids being supported by the long gone father. More of a mystery may be why some (often 40 plus) carry on with the bargirl work when they probably do not need to. I think it is a combination of addiction to lifestyle and that 'it ain't such a bad job'.

 

Also just look how many have had motorbikes and coffee shops and hairdressing saloons brought for them as well. Not to mention occasional trips to beach resorts and 3 plus star hotels.

Edited October 23, 2016 by rogeroc

[Fabricus]

5 hours ago, Johpa said:

 

A majority yes, but vast majority is debatable. In the 1980s ILO report from Achaan Pasuk, "From Peasant Girls to Bangkok Masseuses", she estimated about 30% of Thai women had worked in the sex industry at one time.  Today you can Google "sugar daddies" or "sugar babies" to see how common it is for American college kids to pay for tuition in a similar manner.  So my point is not irrelevant and I maintain that yes, there for the grace of god go you!   If you had come from a poor background with few options, you too would very likely consider selling your sexual services in the back rows of a movie theater in exchange for money.

 

Here's the ILO report you refer to:

 

http://staging.ilo.org/public/libdoc/ilo/1982/82B09_502_engl.pdf

 

Please show me where it says "30% of Thai women had worked in the sex industry". I've done a quick search and can't find your source.

 

Whether your figures are accurate or not, no way is 30% correct.

 

I think it's actually very insulting to suggest nearly a third of all Thai women have at one time or another worked as prostitutes.

[ScotBkk]

I don't think so. We should do a comparison with NZ, where prostitution is now a legit, taxable occupation. There isn't 6000 baht difference, in fact, depending on who you get, it's probably more expensive here than over in NZ.

Eh' sorry, it's called humour !!!!

I don't know if it's me but it seems to be the general consensus nearly everyone has caught political correctness syndrome of late !! What's happening to all the funny negative remarks .......

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[Johpa]

14 minutes ago, Fabricus said:

 

Here's the ILO report you refer to:

 

http://staging.ilo.org/public/libdoc/ilo/1982/82B09_502_engl.pdf

 

Please show me where it says "30% of Thai women had worked in the sex industry". I've done a quick search and can't find your source.

 

Whether your figures are accurate or not, no way is 30% correct.

 

I think it's actually very insulting to suggest nearly a third of all Thai women have at one time or another worked as prostitutes.

 

I have not the time to reread the article some 30 years hence to search for a specific reference. And it may have been a slightly different number or a memory from a different article.  But I do not find the number out of line from that time period in the late 1970s and early 1980s when the Thai population was largely still rural. Keep in mind that the survey would have included women who admitted to exchanging sex for money even a single time.  It also matches my experiences in Thai villages during the 1980s.  And then I did find this quote on page 5 of A. Pasuk's report:  "Estimates of the proportion of young women involved in Bangkok's nightlife can be, as we shall see below, quite astounding."  Clearly you are astounded by such claims as well.  I would think that with the increased urbanization and industrialization, the move towards a middle class peasantry as described by Prof. Andrew Walker and others, that the number has decreased. But I doubt you would feel all that much better if the number were now 10%.

[tropo]

42 minutes ago, ScotBkk said:

Eh' sorry, it's called humour !!!!

I don't know if it's me but it seems to be the general consensus nearly everyone has caught political correctness syndrome of late !! What's happening to all the funny negative remarks .......

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You're not funny!!! It might have been funny a decade or 2 ago, but now they're charging that much.

[ScotBkk]

You're not funny!!! It might have been funny a decade or 2 ago, but now they're charging that much.

Up the Meds mate you've lost it !!

It's not important to me and not worthy of conjecture!!!

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[theguyfromanotherforum]

 
A meaningless and irrelevent comment but at least you have refrained from criticising bargirls this time.
 
Maybe just worth you going to have a chat with a bargirl one day, buy her a drink, get to know her just a little, don't need to sleep with her!  Just do that a few times and you may, hopefully, be a little less insulting to bargirls in general in future. Hey why not even ask her the question posed by the OP,  then you may be able to make some sensible comment on bargirl related threads.

They can buy me a drink and have a chat with me too. I'm also a human being and have my own set of problems just like everyone. It would be nice to get to know me and not just see me as a walking ATM.

[LannaGuy]

1 hour ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

 

They can buy me a drink and have a chat with me too. I'm also a human being and have my own set of problems just like everyone. It would be nice to get to know me and not just see me as a walking ATM.
 

 

 

 

They can't afford too, mostly, and as for 'getting to know you' they are working!  I have met some lovely girls in bars and really nice people they can be too struggling to pay for their kid that some young Thai selfish git has left them with - heroic they are sacrificing themselves nightly, but I wouldn't marry one, but I can respect them and treat them politely and with grace. But, going back to the OP, once an alcoholic always an alcoholic but there can be redemption and healing but you will always be in 'recovery' and one drink away from oblivion!  and so it is with a bar girl. It's just very unfortunate but it's the way the world is .

 

Treat them fairly, respectfully and warmly. I have had great times doing this all over SEA and 'there but for the Grace of God go I'

[Macthehat]

Everyone has a price ....

[Ace of Pop]

Everyone has a price ....

Well She Screwed the Union Lefties and the Argies rather well.


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[tropo]

11 hours ago, ScotBkk said:

Up the Meds mate you've lost it !!

It's not important to me and not worthy of conjecture!!!

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Who lost it? 

 

You made a comment that is no longer valid, then suggested you were only joking. Then say I need to take meds because I didn't find it humourous.

 

That IS funny!

 

 

 

[ScotBkk]

Who lost it? 
 
You made a comment that is no longer valid, then suggested you were only joking. Then say I need to take meds because I didn't find it humourous.
 
That IS funny!
 
 
 

I'm sorry if you feel this trivial claptrap is worth responding to albeit with your constant petty rants. However, as a matter of respect take me out of your field of discontent. I'm watching the grass grow which is more interesting...


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[The Deerhunter]

On 10/22/2016 at 8:49 PM, Deepinthailand said:

So you knew thai hookers in Australia what has that to do with bar girls. I would suggest the girls in Australia were indeed real prostitutes.  But they do not work in thailand so surley it a nonsense post.

The "Thai Hookers " in western countries are recruited from bars in Thailand by professional recruiters of referred by friends already in the life in another country.  Bare girls are prostitutes.  They have found a way of combining the big bucks from anonymous paid sex (prostitution by any other name) with a social life and the mixture is very addictive.  Bar girls are a subset of prostitution as are internet call girls, advertising to meet tourists.  Many of these girls provide "test drives' with no expectation or genuine desire in many cases to marry the individual that comes here to meet them.   Its's a money thing and that brings it back to prostitution.

 

Addition:  I have always tied to treat bar girls with good manners and common (probably UNcommon) grace.  It pays dividends. They appreciate guys who are polite and respectful, not hopelessly drunk, rude, smelly, rough and try to cheat them on money. And threy know how to show their appreciation.  I had long-term friendships with more than a few.   There are many funny (and  some not so funny) from some of us.  

 

Divorced in my early 40's in a western country and having my own business with a good income, I "went on the rantan"  (or slightly off the rails) for well over 10 years,.  I made a list and ticked most of  the items before I met and married a Thai who had a career and was never in bars.  Would I have married a bar girl?  Preferably not, but yes, if she ticked all the boxes and passed all the tests.  It would have been a long arduous testing program. LOL. If circumstances were different I could probably have been happily married to a few I met, but I think the percentage of potential "keepers" is relatively small; possibly much smaller than some of the optimists posting would like to think. 

Edited October 24, 2016 by The Deerhunter
addiition

[tropo]

10 minutes ago, ScotBkk said:

I'm sorry if you feel this trivial claptrap is worth responding to albeit with your constant petty rants. However, as a matter of respect take me out of your field of discontent. I'm watching the grass grow which is more interesting...


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You already stated that you're not interested in discussing this, so why continue to reply?

 

The only person ranting here is you... about grass, discontent, meds etc.

 

 

[The Deerhunter]

13 hours ago, Johpa said:

 

I have not the time to reread the article some 30 years hence to search for a specific reference. And it may have been a slightly different number or a memory from a different article.  But I do not find the number out of line from that time period in the late 1970s and early 1980s when the Thai population was largely still rural. Keep in mind that the survey would have included women who admitted to exchanging sex for money even a single time.  It also matches my experiences in Thai villages during the 1980s.  And then I did find this quote on page 5 of A. Pasuk's report:  "Estimates of the proportion of young women involved in Bangkok's nightlife can be, as we shall see below, quite astounding."  Clearly you are astounded by such claims as well.  I would think that with the increased urbanization and industrialization, the move towards a middle class peasantry as described by Prof. Andrew Walker and others, that the number has decreased. But I doubt you would feel all that much better if the number were now 10%.

I think the percentage would be 10% or almost certainly lower over the whole country. There are estimates of the numbers involved and some areas are known for it, however.  I don't have to enlarge on that and start arguments.  I am married and live in rural Thailand and I had wide relationships with Thais over many years before coming here to live.   I still say the longer they are in it, the harder it is to get out and the easier it is later to take that first drink again, to use the "AA" analogy.

Edited October 24, 2016 by The Deerhunter

[rogeroc]

10 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

15 hours ago, rogeroc said:

A meaningless and irrelevent comment but at least you have refrained from criticising bargirls this time.
 
Maybe just worth you going to have a chat with a bargirl one day, buy her a drink, get to know her just a little, don't need to sleep with her!  Just do that a few times and you may, hopefully, be a little less insulting to bargirls in general in future. Hey why not even ask her the question posed by the OP,  then you may be able to make some sensible comment on bargirl related threads.

 

 

They can buy me a drink and have a chat with me too. I'm also a human being and have my own set of problems just like everyone. It would be nice to get to know me and not just see me as a walking ATM.

 

 

 

Thanks for the response which was possibly more polite than i deserved. I am hearing the argument you have just used more and more frequently and i know a lot of ex pats have limited funds. An effective bargirl working in the right bar and under the right circumstances probably has potentially better spending power than many ex pats. However when a bargirl is looking for ex pats and not just tourists then there is a good chance she will want to get to know you and want your repeat custom. Most will be more relaxed and happier with someone that they know. Also some of these girls have to deal with 'guys' who don't want to know them, don't want to buy them a drink or chat, just pay the barfine and go. Of course that's the cheapest option for the guy but it will make the girls jaded.

 

I sort of agree with he walking ATM bit but the Thai approach to money is different and not so easy to understand. I think it is true that when a lot of Thais get money they squander and spend on friends / family. I think they have difficulty understanding our 'be cautious with money and save' approach.

[mercman24]

my thoughts are that after a while the girl misses the social life, in the bar and all her friends,for example i had a surprise line text, (friend ) saying she miss me, (to talk to ok) and the bar scene, her friends, she is totally bored at home as her son is on school holidays. a cracking looker but i think if any guy gets mixed up with her it wont last long.

[Deepinthailand]

On 22/10/2016 at 8:57 PM, sanemax said:

 

 

    What is the difference between a "real" Australian prostitute and a Thai bargirl