papersource Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I would really appreciate some advice on this from you guys who know about foundations and fill. What we did was put 4 meters of fill over some riceland and only waited 9 months before building a very small house. It's just a 1 bedroom about 45 sq meters with a metal sheet roof and cost about 400,000. The local builder said we did not need to wait longer for the soil to settle because it was such a tiny house. He did not use pilings but built what I think are footings? 1 square meter boxes going down 1.2 meters and put steel inside the beams. This was in May. But now the last month we have had very heavy rains and I noticed that the floors in thenwhole housenare slanting. It is noticable to me but does not bother my wife. If you put an empty water bottle on the floor and give it a little push it will roll the entire length of the floor. I think the back of the house is now several cm highwr than the front. We have some cracks too but no problems with windows or doors (yet) I have heard that you need to wait a year for cracks to stop but am very worried that the front of the house seems to have sunk .3-4 cm in only the few months we have been here. This is not good. My question is do you guys think this will stop and if it gets worse and later eventually stops can we redo the tile flooring making up the grade with more cement? Is it very possible that the house will eventually need to be demolished? This is getting me stressed. TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papersource Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 I will try to post a couple of photos of the contstruction. I obviously do not know anything about construction but some of you guys should be able to figure out construction type that the builder used and if it might sink a lot. The house is 1 level and all cement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papersource Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 Here are the worst 2 cracks. I am thinking that the floors are now tilting by 2-3 cm not 3-4 and it is still ok and not bothersome as long as they don't get any worse....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Bit of filler and paint good as new. You only have to worry about the cracks when you can fit your hand into them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papersource Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 Good to hear about the cracks. :) What is freaking me out a little is the slope of the flooring inside the house. If you put a ball or marble at one side it will roll all the way to the other side on its own . The slant of the floor makes me a little dizzy like I am walking up and down hill. And this tilting is new in the last 2 months since we had those heavy rains.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankruatsteve Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 4 meters for fill??? Wow. Anyway... IMO if the fill was 4 meters then the footings should have been 4.1 meters. Not much you can do about the sinking now though. Just hope it eventually levels out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 The floors maybe "floating" separately from the foundations and concrete support beams (skeleton) which provide all the strength in most Thai houses.If you start getting cracks in the reinforced concrete beams that's something to worry about. Walls and floor could be removed completely and rest of the house (should) still stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRRR Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) Your problem is 4 metres of fill.....piles should have been sunk in to support the structure. Your only option to save it sinking even more and it will is to underpin the entire structure. Best to speak to an engineer who can design something for you, lots of digging and expense coming up, likely senerio is going down into the clay then rio and concrete 4.7 meters down and god knows how wide as you got to be able to dig that deep as it will eventually support your house in a number of places... Another way would be to sink 4 piles down into solid ground/ about half a meter from each corner and in line with the building , rio and concrete approx 500 below your footings then dig away soil on 2 sides from under the house then place something like 300 Steel U beam back over the 2 of the piles and lift up hard under footings then support support the steel beam placing packers between the pile and the beam bolt or weld to keep firm, this would stop the building tilting further. Again i would speak with an engineer over there there not hell bent on indestructible structures like they are here in Australia. Or you could do nothing, in time you will just roll out of bed with no effort in the morning, very bad advice you received and unfortunately in Thailand Builders are not required to give there client a 7 year structural guarantee like we have to here in Australia.... Edited October 16, 2016 by AlexRRR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papersource Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 I was afraid that I would hear underpinning as I have researched a little bit. But This is only a tiny house that cost 400k baht. An engineer is coming out in 2 weeks. But I was deeply hoping that someone had the same experience with a slight slant on their floor and it stopped after a while or you took out the old tiles after a while and built up the floor to even out the slant. as it is now it is not a problem and most people don't notice it. But I do and it is scaring me because it might not stop where it is. Absolutely nothing has been going right lately......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony5 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Am I the only one who think there is something wrong with the 4 meters fill quote, and that it actually is supposed to be 0.4 meter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, papersource said: I was afraid that I would hear underpinning as I have researched a little bit. But This is only a tiny house that cost 400k baht. An engineer is coming out in 2 weeks. But I was deeply hoping that someone had the same experience with a slight slant on their floor and it stopped after a while or you took out the old tiles after a while and built up the floor to even out the slant. as it is now it is not a problem and most people don't notice it. But I do and it is scaring me because it might not stop where it is. Absolutely nothing has been going right lately......... Just a couple things: 400K for 45 sq meter is a lot man thats 8800 baht a square meter. $250 a square meter!! Ive built a few houses here and been involved in several more, and this is a very high price. Anyway I'm sure its got nice finishes and its done so it is what it is. 4 Meters of topsoil is not crazy. Quite common. See it all the time. Everything regarding your footings and depth is quite normal in regards to how they do things. There is no science to the way they do it. I would advise you to not call any "Engineer" whatsoever unless you have money to burn. The cracks you see are very common and completely normal. Some filler and paint and all gone. Its very unlikely that your structure is shifting very much. Settling yes, whole house leaning? No. Are your floor tiles inside coming loose at all? Are you 100% sure that the house was completely level before the rains? Just get yourself a 4 foot level and monitor the floor level and concrete columns over a couple weeks. Its impossible to tell with the naked eye especially when you are paranoid about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 5 minutes ago, Anthony5 said: Am I the only one who think there is something wrong with the 4 meters fill quote, and that it actually is supposed to be 0.4 meter? 0.4 and 4.0 still normal See it all the time when they build up an old rice paddy and build on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony5 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, Strange said: 0.4 and 4.0 still normal See it all the time when they build up an old rice paddy and build on it. You see houses build on 4 meters fill? How did the rice farmers get to their rice paddy, did they use a mine shaft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Just now, Anthony5 said: You see houses build on 4 meters fill? How did the rice farmers get to their rice paddy, did they use a mine shaft? Jesus christ I'm thinking about elevations in feet. Yeah thats a shitload of topsoil but still don't think this is OP's problem. 4 feet, 0.4 or 4.0 meter still probably fine and not the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papersource Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) 4 meters is correct. This to get the land even with the road in front which is really 4 meters higher than the riceland. But the views of mountains in Phecthabun are worth the price of the fill if only the house is ok. Strange, thanks for your reply. Yes, I have used a level with the bubble in the window to check and it s sloping. Also, tonight I placed a full can of Chang on the floor and it rolled to the front of the house all by itself. But nothing in this house measures properly. No room is square. It was a real mess everywhere. my wife's family came over and complained and the builder reduced the contract price by 25,000 because of his admitted sloppiness. For example, I would not accept the bathroom door because it was upside down. he had to buy a new wooden one and throw away the old one and he said my wife was picky.... So, maybe there was some slope in the floor from the start and I just noticed it but I think I would have noticed it before. There are hardly any cracks outside the house and the floor tiles are perfect. One thing is that the back of the house is higher and all the rain water from the metal sheet roof goes back there. maybe the dirt/clay has expanded in the back of the house where the rainwater goes while the drier front has settled a bit. Just a guess...maybe I should get some gutters?? Will just have to wait and hope and see and will update..... Edited October 16, 2016 by papersource Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyIdea Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 It's too quick to say really, that is a light house so it could quite likely stop. 6 months will tell, until then: Relax, enjoy time in the new house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony5 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I say if it is really a 4 meter fill it would take several years to settle, and even then your footings should still be on natural compacted soil, so they would be at least 4 meters deep. Look what I found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 20 minutes ago, Anthony5 said: I say if it is really a 4 meter fill it would take several years to settle, and even then your footings should still be on natural compacted soil, so they would be at least 4 meters deep. Look what I found Did you see the size of OP's Bungalow? Also, when they dump the dirt, its one thing to just dump it and leave it for years, its another when they dump it and grade it with a tractor. The wheels of the tractor compacting the dirt as they grade it out. Layer after layer. Ive read the same things over the years but in reality nobody does that. Nobody waits years to build a house on a piece of land lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony5 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Just now, Strange said: Did you see the size of OP's Bungalow? Also, when they dump the dirt, its one thing to just dump it and leave it for years, its another when they dump it and grade it with a tractor. The wheels of the tractor compacting the dirt as they grade it out. Layer after layer. Ive read the same things over the years but in reality nobody does that. Nobody waits years to build a house on a piece of land lol. Exactly nobody waits years, but in more than 2 decades in Thailand I haven't seen a house build on 4 meters ( that is four thousand centimeters) of landfill. If you read the topic I linked to, they are talking about fills that happened decades ago, and still they use pilings of 20 meters long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 50 minutes ago, papersource said: Strange, thanks for your reply. Yes, I have used a level with the bubble in the window to check and it s sloping. Also, tonight I placed a full can of Chang on the floor and it rolled to the front of the house all by itself. Get your level out and put it in the area of most concern on the floor. Make a scratch or fine line on the edge of the bubble for reference. Now you have a baseline. Do the same when checking plum on center of your house. Mark the edge of the bubble on the plum window. You should have 2 separate windows in your 4 foot level. Its not scientific, but its a reading none the less. 53 minutes ago, papersource said: But nothing in this house measures properly. No room is square. It was a real mess everywhere. my wife's family came over and complained and the builder reduced the contract price by 25,000 because of his admitted sloppiness. For example, I would not accept the bathroom door because it was upside down. he had to buy a new wooden one and throw away the old one and he said my wife was picky.... All completely normal. Everything was built with a tape measure, water level (water hose with water in it) and string lines. Its not going to be straight or plumb or level. Keep this in mind when checking your floors and walls. The scratch marks on your level window are for reference to see if it gets worse, not how out of whack it is now. 56 minutes ago, papersource said: So, maybe there was some slope in the floor from the start and I just noticed it but I think I would have noticed it before. There are hardly any cracks outside the house and the floor tiles are perfect. Most likely, but now you can keep an eye on it. 57 minutes ago, papersource said: One thing is that the back of the house is higher and all the rain water from the metal sheet roof goes back there. maybe the dirt/clay has expanded in the back of the house where the rainwater goes while the drier front has settled a bit. Just a guess...maybe I should get some gutters?? Will just have to wait and hope and see and will update..... Its going to be more of a drainage issue than the small surface area of your roof. Gutters will relocate the water from the roof, but if the rain still wants to collect at your house, that is more of a concern. Its likely fine, no need to worry. Just watch it over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 4 minutes ago, Anthony5 said: Exactly nobody waits years, but in more than 2 decades in Thailand I haven't seen a house build on 4 meters ( that is four thousand centimeters) of landfill. If you read the topic I linked to, they are talking about fills that happened decades ago, and still they use pilings of 20 meters long. Well if we are talking about pilings then thats going to be region specific, and even then, just look around at what the other locals are doing. Likely won't even be a question of weather or not to use piling. It will already be known. By my house right now right off the main highway they are building a Tesco or something and I can guarantee you its every bit of 12 feet from the highway level to the base of the rice paddy in some areas. No piling, just fill dirt and tractor work and immediately build. If the ground is solid and the fill dirt is graded with a tractor, likely a non issue for a regular house. Especially the way they build here with footings and ground beams instead of concrete slabs sitting on the surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papersource Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) Anthony, take a look: this photo shows the neighbors house before we built ours but you can see the height of the fill. i couldn't believe it either at first. but it is 4 meters. I am told that if I want to build a bigger 2 story house on this site I would need to use 10 meter pilings. But for the little house everyone in the area said footings are ok even on 4 meters.. it looks like a light weight house but I selected red bricks for the interior walls which added to the weight. Might be an issue but maybe I am just getting paranoid lookng at the floor slope every 15 minutes lol appreciate all the replies. Edited October 16, 2016 by papersource Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 After seeing local builders "quality" I built my own houses, for 400k for me thats way too much especially as it might be sinking This cost me 150k most of that is materials..............I also built on almost solid rock, i see many houses built on fill, usually the driveway has dropped 6 inches or more from the house. This small house is 50 m2 took me about 10 months to do by myself thats mixing cement laying blocks electrics plumbing just me alone, time will tell if your house sinks....or swims.............first rule here trust nothing and no one..ignore the smiles and promises, they have have little to no experience and copy each others mistakes from one builder to the other. This house is just for visitors i have a second i also built for myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Mega Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 9 hours ago, Anthony5 said: Exactly nobody waits years, but in more than 2 decades in Thailand I haven't seen a house build on 4 meters ( that is four thousand centimeters) of landfill. If you read the topic I linked to, they are talking about fills that happened decades ago, and still they use pilings of 20 meters long. four thousand centimeters, yep thats a lot of fill. That rice paddy was nearly a 1/4 mile deep !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony5 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 1 hour ago, Don Mega said: four thousand centimeters, yep thats a lot of fill. That rice paddy was nearly a 1/4 mile deep !! Oooops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophon Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Don Mega said: four thousand centimeters, yep thats a lot of fill. That rice paddy was nearly a 1/4 mile deep !! 4,000 cm. = 40 m. 1/4 mile = approximately 400 m. Sophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Mega Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 12 minutes ago, Sophon said: 4,000 cm. = 40 m. 1/4 mile = approximately 400 m. Sophon Ooops !! still even 40m is a lot of fill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 3 hours ago, Don Mega said: four thousand centimeters, yep thats a lot of fill. That rice paddy was nearly a 1/4 mile deep !! yeah but u should have seen the rice, gm modified 350metres tall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Mega Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, kannot said: yeah but u should have seen the rice, gm modified 350metres tall nah i got my numbers wrong. 4000cm is 40m not 400m... my bad for posting before morning coffee !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyIdea Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Pardon me for making a stupid joke but don't Americans and the Burmese, being the only ones in the world still left to use inches and feet, feel lonely The correct translation of 4 meters is 400 centimeters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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