Theresa May to tell EU's other leaders 'there will be no second referendum'

[webfact]

Theresa May to tell EU's other leaders 'there will be no second referendum'

Heather Stewart and Jennifer Rankin

 

Prime minister will be allowed to speak on the matter at the end of European council meeting, but allocation signals low priority on agenda

 

LONDON: -- Theresa May is to warn her 27 fellow European Union leaders over a working dinner in Brussels that Britain’s decision to leave is irreversible and there can be no second referendum.

 

Thursday’s meeting of the European council will be the prime minister’s first opportunity to address the leaders of all the other member states since the UK voted to leave the European Union in June.

 

Donald Tusk, the European council president, has insisted Britain’s future relationship with the EU will not be on the formal agenda for the two-day meeting, but he will give May the opportunity to set out the “current state of affairs in the country” over coffee at the end of the meal.

 

Full story: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/20/theresa-may-to-tell-eus-other-leaders-there-will-be-no-second-referendum

 

-- The Guardian 2016-10-20

[Laughing Gravy]

Brilliant. Hopefully that will put an end to that once and for all.

 

It still gives the remainers the opportunity to continually rubbish anything she does for the UK hoping for the apocalypse so they can say "we told you so". Which it won't happen. 

[dick dasterdly]

Sound political move.

 

It puts EU leaders in the 'hot seat' to give up their 'hard stance' and start thinking about changing the things disliked by most of the wealthy EU countries voting population.

[dunroaming]

None of this takes us any further.  It is just posturing on both sides of the channel.  Britain hasn't got a plan and the EU is not open to concessions as it would encourage other countries to jump ship too.  No need to build a wall as one already exists 

[dick dasterdly]

40 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

None of this takes us any further.  It is just posturing on both sides of the channel.  Britain hasn't got a plan and the EU is not open to concessions as it would encourage other countries to jump ship too.  No need to build a wall as one already exists 

Except EU leaders are becoming v aware that the population of the 'wealthy' EU countries are not at all happy about various EU policies.

 

I've no doubt that they would like to make an example of the UK to discourage others - but will they be in a position to do so in a few months time?

 

Its all 'crystal ball' speculating, but I do agree that negotiations are going on - despite the EU leadership claiming otherwise.

[mariner16]

Having just returned from UK after completing the sale of my house that has been rented out since I left, I wasn't surprised to find the whole subject of UK's membership of EU a total bore, in the same way that Trump v Clinton has nothing to do with reality, whether Brexit happens or not is a total irrelevance, the UK as a place to live is finished for me.

 

The main shame is the wasted 43 years that have past, the UK joined because it had to in order to replace its trading links that were disappearing with the end of empire, De Gaulle knew the UK would only be a disruptive force and tried to keep them out, but ultimately once he had lost power they managed to weedle their way in, and, surprise, have been nothing but a disruptive force ever since, with opt outs that no other country sought or wanted, seems to me if the referendum result had gone the other way the EU would ultimately have given UK the option, either you are fully in or get out.

 

However in the same way that a small group of anti EU persons have consistently caused political trouble for the last 40 odd years it now seems inevitable that the reverse will now happen for the next 40 years. The country is split neatly down the middle and the arguments will never stop, in fact are likely to get worse as the more affluent and skilled vote with their feet and get out and the rest are left behind at the mercy of a far right government and an ever worsening lifestyle.

[Grouse]

22 minutes ago, mariner16 said:

Having just returned from UK after completing the sale of my house that has been rented out since I left, I wasn't surprised to find the whole subject of UK's membership of EU a total bore, in the same way that Trump v Clinton has nothing to do with reality, whether Brexit happens or not is a total irrelevance, the UK as a place to live is finished for me.

 

The main shame is the wasted 43 years that have past, the UK joined because it had to in order to replace its trading links that were disappearing with the end of empire, De Gaulle knew the UK would only be a disruptive force and tried to keep them out, but ultimately once he had lost power they managed to weedle their way in, and, surprise, have been nothing but a disruptive force ever since, with opt outs that no other country sought or wanted, seems to me if the referendum result had gone the other way the EU would ultimately have given UK the option, either you are fully in or get out.

 

However in the same way that a small group of anti EU persons have consistently caused political trouble for the last 40 odd years it now seems inevitable that the reverse will now happen for the next 40 years. The country is split neatly down the middle and the arguments will never stop, in fact are likely to get worse as the more affluent and skilled vote with their feet and get out and the rest are left behind at the mercy of a far right government and an ever worsening lifestyle.

 

Very good post!

 

worth reiterating Peter Hitchens' quip: the U.K. Is moving from a situation where we are half in the EU to a situation where we are half out! ?

Edited October 20, 2016 by Grouse
Punktuation

[pitrevie]

4 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Brilliant. Hopefully that will put an end to that once and for all.

 

It still gives the remainers the opportunity to continually rubbish anything she does for the UK hoping for the apocalypse so they can say "we told you so". Which it won't happen. 

 

Surely she means there will be no third referendum as this was referendum No 2 on membership of the EU. However May cannot prevent a future Parliament from holding another referendum on this matter. 

 

"If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy."  David Davis Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union

[Grouse]

I think we can safely say that there will NEVER be another referendum or a plebiscite. It's a cop out for a government to even suggest one.

 

However, parliament CAN kill off what ever it likes.

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

I think we can safely say that there will NEVER be another referendum or a plebiscite. It's a cop out for a government to even suggest one.

 

However, parliament CAN kill off what ever it likes.

Only if those MPs in brexit constituencies are will to lose their seat at the next election.

 

They need to tread very carefully to avoid this.

[Johnyo]

Sound political move.
 
It puts EU leaders in the 'hot seat' to give up their 'hard stance' and start thinking about changing the things disliked by most of the wealthy EU countries voting population.

The EU doesn't have to give anything up.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Only if those MPs in brexit constituencies are will to lose their seat at the next election.

 

They need to tread very carefully to avoid this.

 

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Only if those MPs in brexit constituencies are will to lose their seat at the next election.

 

They need to tread very carefully to avoid this.

 

I like to think that some MPs, most even, are honourable people who vote according to their conscience NOT just according the majority of their constituents however silly they may be. You do want wise, honourable MPs don't you?

 

Otherwise just replace Parliament with an ap. ?

[dick dasterdly]

34 minutes ago, mariner16 said:

Having just returned from UK after completing the sale of my house that has been rented out since I left, I wasn't surprised to find the whole subject of UK's membership of EU a total bore, in the same way that Trump v Clinton has nothing to do with reality, whether Brexit happens or not is a total irrelevance, the UK as a place to live is finished for me.

 

The main shame is the wasted 43 years that have past, the UK joined because it had to in order to replace its trading links that were disappearing with the end of empire, De Gaulle knew the UK would only be a disruptive force and tried to keep them out, but ultimately once he had lost power they managed to weedle their way in, and, surprise, have been nothing but a disruptive force ever since, with opt outs that no other country sought or wanted, seems to me if the referendum result had gone the other way the EU would ultimately have given UK the option, either you are fully in or get out.

 

However in the same way that a small group of anti EU persons have consistently caused political trouble for the last 40 odd years it now seems inevitable that the reverse will now happen for the next 40 years. The country is split neatly down the middle and the arguments will never stop, in fact are likely to get worse as the more affluent and skilled vote with their feet and get out and the rest are left behind at the mercy of a far right government and an ever worsening lifestyle.

I agree with pretty much all of this, but it needs to be borne in mind that the affluent have families to consider and jobs to find.

 

We all heard about the 'brain drain' a few decades ago, but it turned out that mainly only those with especially important skills to sell moved abroad permanently.  Which is why we still have many very intelligent people working in the UK.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Grouse said:

 

 

I like to think that some MPs, most even, are honourable people who vote according to their conscience NOT just according the majority of their constituents however silly they may be. You do want wise, honourable MPs don't you?

 

Otherwise just replace Parliament with an ap. ?

And I like to think that you're not naive enough to believe that most MPs are "honourable people who vote according to their conscience".....

[melvinmelvin]

46 minutes ago, mariner16 said:

Having just returned from UK after completing the sale of my house that has been rented out since I left, I wasn't surprised to find the whole subject of UK's membership of EU a total bore, in the same way that Trump v Clinton has nothing to do with reality, whether Brexit happens or not is a total irrelevance, the UK as a place to live is finished for me.

 

The main shame is the wasted 43 years that have past, the UK joined because it had to in order to replace its trading links that were disappearing with the end of empire, De Gaulle knew the UK would only be a disruptive force and tried to keep them out, but ultimately once he had lost power they managed to weedle their way in, and, surprise, have been nothing but a disruptive force ever since, with opt outs that no other country sought or wanted, seems to me if the referendum result had gone the other way the EU would ultimately have given UK the option, either you are fully in or get out.

 

However in the same way that a small group of anti EU persons have consistently caused political trouble for the last 40 odd years it now seems inevitable that the reverse will now happen for the next 40 years. The country is split neatly down the middle and the arguments will never stop, in fact are likely to get worse as the more affluent and skilled vote with their feet and get out and the rest are left behind at the mercy of a far right government and an ever worsening lifestyle.

 

Enjoyed reading your summary!

 

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree with pretty much all of this, but it needs to be borne in mind that the affluent have families to consider and jobs to find.

 

We all heard about the 'brain drain' a few decades ago, but it turned out that mainly only those with especially important skills to sell moved abroad permanently.  Which is why we still have many very intelligent people working in the UK.

 

I agree with Mariner on this. Many that can, will go. Sorry to say the UK is not the nice country it used to be in so many ways. It's going to get poorer and not just financially. It really is getting dumbed down and becoming scruffier. I hate to think what the Gini coefficient is now...

 

I for one found Europe to be a civilising influence. The thought of increasing adoption of American attitudes fills me with horror. What exacerbates that for me is that so many of our brethren just don't see it ?

Edited October 20, 2016 by Grouse

[F4UCorsair]

The bad losers want another bite of the cherry, and if that was lost, they'd want another bite.

 

Losers never change.

 

Forget the reasons, the vote was in favour of leaving the EU, the democratic process exercised.....END OF STORY!!!

[Johnyo]

The bad losers want another bite of the cherry, and if that was lost, they'd want another bite.
 
Losers never change.
 
Forget the reasons, the vote was in favour of leaving the EU, the democratic process exercised.....END OF STORY!!!

I really hope you are no more than 12 years old.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

I agree with Mariner on this. Many that can, will go. Sorry to say the UK is not the nice country it used to be in so many ways. It's going to get poorer and not just financially. It really is getting dumbed down and becoming scruffier. I hate to think what the Gini coefficient is now...

 

I for one found Europe to be a civilising influence. The thought of increasing adoption of American attitudes fills me with horror. What exacerbates that for me is that so many of our brethren just don't see it ?

I know what you mean, but still think this predicted exodus of the wealthy won't harm the UK much.  Of course it takes a crystal ball to be sure, but meanwhile we rely on speculation.

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

The bad losers want another bite of the cherry, and if that was lost, they'd want another bite.

 

Losers never change.

 

Forget the reasons, the vote was in favour of leaving the EU, the democratic process exercised.....END OF STORY!!!

 

No, you don't understand.

 

Nobody is asking for a rerun

 

But parliament WILL have oversight and COULD stop the whole thing if it's getting to silly

 

What gives you the idea that the majority always have the right idea?

 

It was a referendum BTW not a plebiscite. It's not binding BUT I believe Parliament will go with it if the details are not too daft.

 

As Mariner put it, the country is currently split. Which people are most likely to leave for better salaries and lifestyles? The numpties? Of course not, you can expect the percentage of numpties in the remaining population to increase and breed . Good luck with that ?

[F4UCorsair]

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

No, you don't understand.

 

Nobody iss asking for a rerun

 

But parliamasnt WILL have oversight and COULD stop the whole thing if it's getting to silly

 

What gives you the idea that the majority always have the right idea?

 

It was a referendum BTW not a plebiscite. It's not binding BUT I believe Parliament will go with it if the details are not too daft.

 

As Mariner put it, the country is currently split. Which people are most likely to leave for better salaries and lifestyles? The numpties? Of course not, you can expect the percentage of numpties in the remaining population to increase and breed . Good luck with that ?

 

May Is saying there will be no rerun because there are those calling for a rerun.

You have referendum and plebiscite back to front. A referendum Is binding, a plebiscite Is not.

Whether the majority Is rihht or otherwise Is Irrelevant.  The democratic process has been exercised, exit won, and the outcome IS binding on the gov't..  If the losers prevail, and there Is another referendum, It's the slippery slope to anarchy, and next step Is the losers In an election demand another election because they don't lile the result.

 

Edited October 20, 2016 by F4UCorsair

[F4UCorsair]

17 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

 

I really hope you are no more than 12 years old.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

 

Just explain exactly what you mean by that simplistic comment.

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I know what you mean, but still think this predicted exodus of the wealthy won't harm the UK much.  Of course it takes a crystal ball to be sure, but meanwhile we rely on speculation.

 

I don't worry about the wealthy who will have distributed lives anyway.

 

No, it's the "pointy heads" you need to worry about. The engineers and scientists I have known want to live in nice areas and have a great lifestyle. BIG risk for UK Ltd.  Been, there, done that. Years ago, the CEO of Texas Instruments was asked why their European HQ at the time was just outside Juan Le Pins? Because it's a nice place came the answer. Correct. 

 

OK there're some cool areas around our top universities, but there's a limit. I see a major brain drain...

 

The effect of losing quants, material scientists, biochemists and so on could be major ?

[rockingrobin]

16 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

The bad losers want another bite of the cherry, and if that was lost, they'd want another bite.

 

Losers never change.

 

Forget the reasons, the vote was in favour of leaving the EU, the democratic process exercised.....END OF STORY!!!

But what does leave EU mean, surely if the UK is to maintain parliamentary sovereignty then it as a role in shaping the objectives and negotiations. The referendum result was a vote to leave , does this mean that the interests of only leave voters should be heard and everybody who voted to remain, didnt vote or   unable to vote they dont  count

[Grouse]

15 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

May Is saying there will be no rerun because there are those calling for a rerun.

You have referendum and plebiscite back to front. A referendum Is binding, a plebiscite Is not.

Whether the majority Is rihht or otherwise Is Irrelevant.  The democratic process has been exercised, exit won, and the outcome IS binding on the gov't..  If the losers prevail, and there Is another referendum, It's the slippery slope to anarchy, and next step Is the losers In an election demand another election because they don't lile the result.

 

 

I am not a lawyer. From the etymology, I deduce a referendum is a recommendation whereas a plebiscite is a mass vote. However, happy to bow to your expertise

 

Nevertheless, Parliament IS sovereign and will be exercise its power as it sees fit

 

Why are Brexiteers so nervous? Can't believe your luck? Got one  b over on the big heads and toffs? Good for you! We're leaving! Bye!

[Grouse]

F4U are you a Vought Corsair driver? Fine aircraft!

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

May Is saying there will be no rerun because there are those calling for a rerun.

You have referendum and plebiscite back to front. A referendum Is binding, a plebiscite Is not.

Whether the majority Is rihht or otherwise Is Irrelevant.  The democratic process has been exercised, exit won, and the outcome IS binding on the gov't..  If the losers prevail, and there Is another referendum, It's the slippery slope to anarchy, and next step Is the losers In an election demand another election because they don't lile the result.

 

Referendum not binding , the act that brought the EU ref was silent on the issue as to what happened afterwards

Back in 2010 the referendums not legally  binding

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-senior-conservative-mps-seize-on-a-forgotten-government-pledge-to-let-parliament-decide-the-a7366316.html

[jobin]

'Otherwise just replace Parliament with an ap. ?'

 

A mis-spelling?  Should be 'ape'. 

[Grouse]

37 minutes ago, jobin said:

'Otherwise just replace Parliament with an ap. ?'

 

A mis-spelling?  Should be 'ape'. 

 

Sorry for typo - should of course be app.

 

when quoting me, please post the entire boring message ?

[Retiredandhappyhere]

You only have to witness the way in which Tusk, Merkel and to a lesser extent Hollande, seem to speak for all 27 or 28 Nations to see the way things are headed. These three just do not want their own or any other country's ordinary people to have any say in their future. How often do we see Merkel and Hollande holding a press conference in which they appear to speak for all countries without appparently consulting them first.  Hence the immigration crisis and the individual country's leaders' reluctance to hold a referendum on membership.