NHS Rant (UK)

[Strange]

5 hours ago, partington said:

It doesn't owe you anything unless you get sick.  It's insurance not a bloody Christmas Club.

 

insurance does not make you wait in line for weeks/months for a specialist (regardless of if its a 999 emergency or not)

[NanLaew]

On 10/21/2016 at 5:25 PM, homeseeker said:

... major problem is  that the UK allows thousands of poor people mainly immigrants etc into the place who can get unlimited health care without paying for it. ...

Wrong.

[Strange]

5 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Wrong.

 

Will they be turned away from the ER? Or will they treat them?

[NanLaew]

29 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Will they be turned away from the ER? Or will they treat them?

 

Will they be turned away from the ER in America? Or will they treat them?

 

Quote

... mainly immigrants etc into the place who can get unlimited health care ...

 

See emphasis above... totally incorrect.

Edited October 23, 2016 by NanLaew

[Strange]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

Will they be turned away from the ER in America? Or will they treat them?

 

Unfortunately illegal immigrants will be treated, and the bill gets eaten by the hospital, witch increases the cost of care for the insured and self pay.

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, Strange said:

 

Will they be turned away from the ER? Or will they treat them?

 

31 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Unfortunately illegal immigrants will be treated, and the bill gets eaten by the hospital, witch increases the cost of care for the insured and self pay.

 

Whereas we Brits who have moved out here on retirement will, on the other hand, be ruthlessly billed for every last penny of the cost of any NHS treatment we may require, notwithstanding the substantial tax and NI payments which we made during our working lives back in the UK.

 

The OP should, in my view, be grateful that he remains entitled to free NHS treatment.

[Sheryl]

8 hours ago, BudRight said:

 

The issue is that he already pays, in the form of taxes, but receives nothing for it.

 

He hasn't received "nothing".

 

He has been treated by a GP, and referred for consultation with a specialist. As the situation is non-emergent, there is a wait for that. It is the wait that he is complaining about.

[Strange]

I think the whole "free healthcare" thing in the UK only "Feels" free because you guys have been paying it your entire lives and don't know any better. You are used to it. 

 

What I mean is that if you restart the system right now, and go from keeping 75% of your income your entire life, then abruptly change it so that you get "Government Healthcare" and overnight keep 60% of your income, there would be a lot more complaints and it would definitely not "feel" free at all and you would not have any choice or say in the matter. 

 

From what I read, you guys on average keep only 57% of your total income whereas in the US the average is around 65-70% depending on state and personal wealth. 

 

Im not knocking it, but imho losing over 40% of your hard earned wage into a system where you have no choice kinda sucks. 

 

On the other hand, the US system is worse and with Obamas ACA system (mandatory) I went from about $230 a month for insurance (with the same income) to fuggin $730 a month. It would be far less if I made less money but the idea being that I can "afford" to subsidize people that can not "afford" it. Its BS. 

 

I would agree that OP should be happy that he can get healthcare and not freakout about where the hell the money is going to come from. 

[Bonobojt]

Yes I got lucky and have a really good and nice GP, she asked me to do another urine test and stool test, I am grateful she is getting these tests done, I noticed in Thailand they ask you to collect your urine sample right away, but in the UK they ask you to it first thing in the morning mid stream, which makes more sense.

 

Its the waiting that annoys me, I just don't understand how they can determine if something is serious or not when they don't know what the problem is, if my stool and urine tests come back negative, does that make it more serious or less serious ? how do they determine these things ? its frustrating but we live in an overpopulated world full of sick people and that's why its a long wait and it bothers me.

 

I was born in England and I pay my taxes and work, I shouldn't have to wait so long because of Immigrants if that's whats happening  

Edited October 23, 2016 by Bonobojt

[Sheryl]

From what you have posted elsewhere about your condition, it really, really is not because of immigrants nor anything else untoward. You have been placed at the very back of the queue because there is no indication at all of anything serious....and indeed scarcely grounds for seeing a specialist. Many GPs would not even have made the referral.

As to how they know: medical training. Clinical signs, test results, reported symptoms.

[Bonobojt]

13 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 Many GPs would not even have made the referral.

As to how they know: medical training. Clinical signs, test results, reported symptoms.

 

Discomfort around groin all the time, Pain when urinating sometimes, tingling on testicles and perineum  sometimes,  feeling the urge to urinate but nothing happens, urinating small amounts every 5 - 10 minutes at night. 

 

these symptoms aren't enough to get a referral ? I would be told to just live with it and hope it goes away by many GPs? wow scary, guess I got lucky then. 

[smokie36]

1 hour ago, Bonobojt said:

Discomfort around groin all the time, Pain when urinating sometimes, tingling on testicles and perineum  sometimes,  feeling the urge to urinate but nothing happens, urinating small amounts every 5 - 10 minutes at night. 

 

these symptoms aren't enough to get a referral ? I would be told to just live with it and hope it goes away by many GPs? wow scary, guess I got lucky then. 

 

The most likely reason for this is a Urinary Tract Infection....or a STI bearing in mind particularly what young men get up to in Thailand.

 

There are a few other much less likely causes......but you are not going to be seen urgently with this type of issue I'm afraid.

 

People with possible cancer diagnosis, bleeding, old ladies with broken hips, gangrenous toes etc are all going to be ahead of you in the queue.

 

As are those who are needing urgent cardiac stents to prevent them dying or have brain tumours which are growing.

 

People who require hip or knee replacements who can't even walk to the toilet due to their excruciating pain will also be taking priority over your minor issue.

 

You may still feel that is harsh so I suggest you make yourself a cup of tea and read my post again. 

[Sheryl]

Per other threads,he has already been extensively evaluated and tested for both sti and uti with all results negative. This fact would indeed lead many GPs to conclude that the situation is not urgent (and possible neurogenic in origin).

[Trevor1809]

"As to how they know: medical training. Clinical signs, test results, reported symptoms."

 

My son missed 2.5 months off school in the run up to important exams due to his GP's inability or refusal to diagnose a liver infection. Repeatidly said is was viral gastroenteritis. Now even I can go onto the internet and see that this should last up to 10 days so why after 2 months does his quack insist that it is viral gastroenteritis. The joke was then that he then gave him antibiotics. Again even I know antibiotics don't work on a virus. Only after insisting on a second opinion did they find that it had high levels of something or other but by now just border line to suggest he had a liver infection that completely knocked him out for over 2 months.

The upshot was my son flunked all his exams and is now on the UK unemployable scrap heap. Still, look how much money the NHS saved by not having to treat the actual cause of his illness. Mustn't complete too much though. At least he didn't die.

[dick dasterdly]

On 10/23/2016 at 0:59 AM, BudRight said:

 

The issue is that he already pays, in the form of taxes, but receives nothing for it.

I disagree.  If anyone requires emergency treatment they will receive good treatment free of charge - regardless of how long the emergency care is required.

 

On the other hand, if its not an emergency - then you will be fobbed off.

 

I can still remember my GP telling me that my long existing problem was in my imagination/due to age etc. etc., and then asking whether I had private insurance.  When I told him that yes, I had private insurance, he immediately referred to me a 'specialist' in an NHS hospital.

 

Presumably the 'specialist' also worked privately in the NHS hospital - and she told me nothing was wrong.  I have nothing but contempt for this NHS 'specialist' who not only charged private fees, but was also incompetent.

 

It was around a year later that I found a different doctor who referred me (privately) to a different doctor, who partly diagnosed the problem (insulin resistant).

[dick dasterdly]

On 10/23/2016 at 2:06 PM, Bonobojt said:

Discomfort around groin all the time, Pain when urinating sometimes, tingling on testicles and perineum  sometimes,  feeling the urge to urinate but nothing happens, urinating small amounts every 5 - 10 minutes at night. 

 

these symptoms aren't enough to get a referral ? I would be told to just live with it and hope it goes away by many GPs? wow scary, guess I got lucky then. 

I know what you mean - for some reason doctors are (or were - I haven't seen a UK GP for at least 10 years) are very reluctant to send patients to consultants - unless they have private insurance.

[dick dasterdly]

On 10/23/2016 at 3:16 PM, smokie36 said:

 

The most likely reason for this is a Urinary Tract Infection....or a STI bearing in mind particularly what young men get up to in Thailand.

 

There are a few other much less likely causes......but you are not going to be seen urgently with this type of issue I'm afraid.

 

People with possible cancer diagnosis, bleeding, old ladies with broken hips, gangrenous toes etc are all going to be ahead of you in the queue.

 

As are those who are needing urgent cardiac stents to prevent them dying or have brain tumours which are growing.

 

People who require hip or knee replacements who can't even walk to the toilet due to their excruciating pain will also be taking priority over your minor issue.

 

You may still feel that is harsh so I sggest you make yourself a cup of tea and read my post again. 

And yet he wasn't treated for a urinary tract infection?

 

The funny thing is that I appreciate the NHS (or more accurately, appreciated the NHS - as even though I still pay tax on my income, I'm no longer entitled to NHS care....), but have little confidence in it.  Apart from emergencies, when the NHS works very well.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Trevor1809 said:

"As to how they know: medical training. Clinical signs, test results, reported symptoms."

 

My son missed 2.5 months off school in the run up to important exams due to his GP's inability or refusal to diagnose a liver infection. Repeatidly said is was viral gastroenteritis. Now even I can go onto the internet and see that this should last up to 10 days so why after 2 months does his quack insist that it is viral gastroenteritis. The joke was then that he then gave him antibiotics. Again even I know antibiotics don't work on a virus. Only after insisting on a second opinion did they find that it had high levels of something or other but by now just border line to suggest he had a liver infection that completely knocked him out for over 2 months.

The upshot was my son flunked all his exams and is now on the UK unemployable scrap heap. Still, look how much money the NHS saved by not having to treat the actual cause of his illness. Mustn't complete too much though. At least he didn't die.

I hope you or your son complained directly to the local NHS 'franchise' about this. If you did and and they ignored you, then I hope you lodged a complaint with the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman. Lamenting it on TV won't get much more than some saying sorry about that.

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

I hope you or your son complained directly to the local NHS 'franchise' about this. If you did and and they ignored you, then I hope you lodged a complaint with the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman. Lamenting it on TV won't get much more than some saying sorry about that.

How many people (who are already struggling to work all the hours possible to show that they are good employees) and dealing with various other problems in their life - are going to go through this procedure knowing that the medical profession are unlikely to criticise a colleague?

[smokie36]

26 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

How many people (who are already struggling to work all the hours possible to show that they are good employees) and dealing with various other problems in their life - are going to go through this procedure knowing that the medical profession are unlikely to criticise a colleague?

 

 

Different days post Shipman.

 

All complaints are looked at seriously these days.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

How many people (who are already struggling to work all the hours possible to show that they are good employees) and dealing with various other problems in their life - are going to go through this procedure knowing that the medical profession are unlikely to criticise a colleague?

 

1 hour ago, smokie36 said:

 

 

Different days post Shipman.

 

All complaints are looked at seriously these days.

You may be right to a certain extent, insofar as if there is an obvious, serious problem with a GP  (proven by a  number of people  complaining vociferously to the GMC who have made it clear that they are not about to give up - and will go to the press if necessary) - the GMC will look into the GPs 'statistics',

If said GP has an abnormally large number of deaths whilst under their care (and someone has complained loudly enough to make them look into it), then there is a possibility that the GMC will hold an enquirry/ ask the GP for an explanation.

But its all irrelevant, as only a few of those whose relatives have died will pursue the matter with the GMC, and the vast majority of poorly served patients (suffering problems that leave them incapacited to a whatever extent) are extremely unlikely to complain to the GMC....

[Bonobojt]

my GP has asked me for  a mid stream first thing in the morning Urine sample and a stool test, which I handed in and will get the results on Monday next week, I think I got lucky as this GP is getting tests done and she doesn't look or sound miserable like the other GP's I've seen, I just think my issue is something that can't wait 4 months  to see a specialist for, as I type this I'm in discomfort around my groin area. 

 

I haven't been referred to a specialist yet. she wants me to measure my urine intake and then measure my urine outtake first, I'm not complaining about my current GP, I'm complaining about how the system will think my issue isn't important or serious and it will make me wait for 4 months even though I'm in bad discomfort everyday.

 

I'm hoping I will get a diagnose and treatment on Monday, if the tests are all negative then I will have many questions to ask, you know, like an actually discussion on what my issue could be, something none of my GP's have done yet.

 

As I've said on another post, this all seemed to start after sex, so everything is pointing to a UTI, as I got tested for STD's and HIV last month and that was negative, it has to be  UTI, this is really a horrible problem I've got.  

Edited October 24, 2016 by Bonobojt

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

You may be right to a certain extent, insofar as if there is an obvious, serious problem with a GP  (proven by a  number of people  complaining vociferously to the GMC who have made it clear that they are not about to give up - and will go to the press if necessary) - the GMC will look into the GPs 'statistics',

If said GP has an abnormally large number of deaths whilst under their care (and someone has complained loudly enough to make them look into it), then there is a possibility that the GMC will hold an enquirry/ ask the GP for an explanation.

But its all irrelevant, as only a few of those whose relatives have died will pursue the matter with the GMC, and the vast majority of poorly served patients (suffering problems that leave them incapacited to a whatever extent) are extremely unlikely to complain to the GMC....

After my fathers death was accelerated by non-existent post-surgical care (he had been transferred from the excellent city hospital where the surgery had been done to a terrible, smaller one nearer his home), we complained to the hospital where both my mother and sister were dismissed as troublemakers meddling in matters they knew nothing about. Then we lodged a formal complaint with the Ombudsman who promptly responded that the matter would be investigated. Four months later we received a 4-page letter of their findings, their solution to the problems that confirmed our complaint, a profound apology and an invitation to respond and take it to a higher authority if we were not satisfied with their findings and actions.

 

About three years later, my mother was also transferred to the same hospital after her surgery. This was a hospital that she had previously vowed to avoid since in her words, 'They killed my husband.' The staff, most of whom were new faces could not have been a more caring, diligent and professional and although she passed away there several months later, she was deeply grateful for their care and devotion and doing the little extras to make her as comfortable as possible.

 

There are good NHS trusts and there are absolutely diabolical ones but if one does not complain, one does not get heard and abuse, malpractice and mistreatment will continue.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Bonobojt said:

my GP has asked me for  a mid stream first thing in the morning Urine sample and a stool test, which I handed in and will get the results on Monday next week, I think I got lucky as this GP is getting tests done and she doesn't look or sound miserable like the other GP's I've seen, I just think my issue is something that can't wait 4 months  to see a specialist for, as I type this I'm in discomfort around my groin area. 

 

I haven't been referred to a specialist yet. she wants me to measure my urine intake and then measure my urine outtake first, I'm not complaining about my current GP, I'm complaining about how the system will think my issue isn't important or serious and it will make me wait for 4 months even though I'm in bad discomfort everyday.

 

I'm hoping I will get a diagnose and treatment on Monday, if the tests are all negative then I will have many questions to ask, you know, like an actually discussion on what my issue could be, something none of my GP's have done yet.

 

As I've said on another post, this all seemed to start after sex, so everything is pointing to a UTI, as I got tested for STD's and HIV last month and that was negative, it has to be  UTI, this is really a horrible problem I've got.  

A few good points there.

 

My dad was diagnosed with cancer in December many years ago, and told he would be sent an appointment for chemo.

 

He only told me this the following March, presumably because he still hadn't received an appointment, and knew that the symptoms were so bad that he didn't have much longer to live.  He died on the 2nd of April and, infuriatingly, received a letter from the NHS a week later with an appointment for chemo in August,,,,,,

 

He was obviously considered unimportant - an appalling indictment of the NHS who would have given him immediate chemo if he'd been someone they considered important and likely to get press coverage if they'd been left to die that way.

 

But its the ever increasing way of things throughout the world.  If you're famous or 'important' (ie. wealthy and have the means to proclaim injusticies) - the NHS will provide immediate treatment.  If not, then your appointment will be put back, and put back - until they run out of excuses and give you an appointment 8 months later for a disease that obvioisly needs to be treated immediately .

 

Edited October 24, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[NanLaew]

9 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

A few good points there.

 

My dad was diagnosed with cancer in December many years ago, and told he would be sent an appointment for chemo.

 

He only told me this the following March, presumably because he still hadn't received an appointment, and knew that the symptoms were so bad that he didn't have much longer to live.  He died on the 2nd of April and, infuriatingly, received a letter from the NHS a week later with an appointment for chemo in August,,,,,,

 

He was obviously considered unimportant - an appalling indictment of the NHS who would have given him immediate chemo if he'd been someone they considered important and likely to get press coverage if they'd been left to die that way.

 

But its the ever increasing way of things throughout the world.  If you're famous or 'important' (ie. wealthy and have the means to proclaim injusticies) - the NHS will provide immediate treatment.  If not, then your appointment will be put back, and put back - until they run out of excuses and give you an appointment 8 months later for a disease that obvioisly needs to be treated immediately .

 

Grounds for complaint there. You get the feeling that there was a quick score card and he failed to get sufficient points to warrant attention? My father passed away due to sepsis after non-existent post-surgical care. A complaint was ultimately upheld and changes were made.

 

However, my mother in her late 70's was diagnosed with a breast lesion. Already frail from several pre-existing conditions that were exacerbated by years of getting only palliative care from the local surgery, the NHS system railroaded her into having a mastectomy. She never recovered which was probably the desired result since the older one gets, the more expensive it becomes to be treated. That aspect is the grounds of another complaint but it would need to be directed at the whole NHS's raison d'être rather than local malpractice.

[scubascuba3]

Annoying thread. Comparing paid for service in Thailand with free NHS in UK, apples and oranges. I'm out.

[ThaiPauly]

Sorry mate, I don't find it annoying, exactly the opposite in fact

[chiang mai]

On 25/10/2016 at 9:16 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Annoying thread. Comparing paid for service in Thailand with free NHS in UK, apples and oranges. I'm out.

 

You've clearly never been seriously in need of medical care in BOTH locations if you say that.

[Henryford]

On 25/10/2016 at 9:16 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Annoying thread. Comparing paid for service in Thailand with free NHS in UK, apples and oranges. I'm out.

 

The NHS is certainly NOT free. After a lifetimes's work i have probably paid 100,000 pounds towards the NHS for which i got a few GP visits and a couple of OP attendances. Well worth it !!

[al007]

On 10/23/2016 at 2:06 PM, Bonobojt said:

Discomfort around groin all the time, Pain when urinating sometimes, tingling on testicles and perineum  sometimes,  feeling the urge to urinate but nothing happens, urinating small amounts every 5 - 10 minutes at night. 

 

these symptoms aren't enough to get a referral ? I would be told to just live with it and hope it goes away by many GPs? wow scary, guess I got lucky then. 

 

Well you are 25 yrs old, or young

 

You may have a lot still to learn, and patience is a requirement

 

In England you will not be left to die, even as a foreigner, go to A&E and tell them you are in so much pain

 

They will asses you, if your problem were in the head, they might put you in a nut house

 

I have the feeling you have spent a lot of time traveling

 

Many good UK companies will give you health benefits 

 

Maybe you need to settle, if by chance you are a teacher go work (if that be an acceptable concept) at a private school and get free healthcare

 

I have a feeling you need to look at many problems not just health

 

In any case good luck, also the TV forum is the wrong place for bitching about the UK system