May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[nauseus]

55 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

It's no good getting stuck on rather abstract concepts of democracy; ultimately, it ends up a nonsense argument that ignores the real issues of governance.

 

I'm more concerned with a small power elite in Westminster than the one in Brussels.

 

I see there's been a terrorist attack!

That's a really solid defence of the great EU democracy! And talking of nonsense, democracy and governance are not same thing, Bye. 

 

[mommysboy]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

That's a really solid defence of the great EU democracy! And talking of nonsense, democracy and governance are not same thing, Bye. 

 

democracy vs governance

 

Some might see a relationship.

 

As I said, the problem with abstraction is....

Edited May 23, 2017 by mommysboy

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

democracy vs governance

 

Some might see a relationship.

 

As I said, the problem with abstarction is....

A relationship between the types of each, yes. But the definitions of each word are not the same. Try looking them up? 

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

You are way off the (EU exit) topic and this UK election issue should be split off. You appear to pick out industry as a personal pet topic. Only one of the "evils" that you mention can be directly the choice of the British people. Some EU subsidies are good but the money is basically ours in the first place! The choices of national leaders don't seem to get any better either - the US is the classic example - but maybe one day the UK will have the chance to vote in a winner, which seems to be impossible as far as the EU goes. Yes time will tell but the big fire is yet to burn the EU due to the common currency and other poor policies.

"So this is my analysis of the rights and wrongs, the opportunities and risks, of our membership of the EU – and the reasons I believe it is clearly in our national interest to remain a member of the European Union. "

 

Teresa May 25th April 2016

http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2016/04/theresa-mays-speech-on-brexit-full-text.html

 

[sandyf]

Anyone who thinks the general election is off topic should think again. The topic title is "May ready for tough talks over Brexit" and she is certainly not ready.

 

"The UK's seat at the negotiating table will be filled by me or Jeremy Corbyn. The deal we seek will be negotiated by me or Jeremy Corbyn."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-latest-theresa-may-brexit-talks-jeremy-corbyn-eu-a7748431.html

[sandyf]

Quote of the day.  "“|t’s easy to forget the benefits, and what facilitated those benefits,” said Mr Swaffield. "

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-monarch-flights-boss-step-backwards-seventies-warning-latest-a7751641.html

[Grouse]

Interesting angle for Brexiteers to ponder

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/2017/05/aussies-and-kiwis-can-be-us-brexiteers-so-why-are-eu-citizens-them

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Interesting angle for Brexiteers to ponder

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/2017/05/aussies-and-kiwis-can-be-us-brexiteers-so-why-are-eu-citizens-them

I am increasingly coming to the view that the Brexiteers on this forum are not so much wrong as somewhat aloof to real life. Whatever it was that kept them rooted to the ground in their working lives, be it the forces or a respectable career, no longer provides that anchor.

[tprender]

Interesting angle for Brexiteers to ponder
 
http://www.newstatesman.com/2017/05/aussies-and-kiwis-can-be-us-brexiteers-so-why-are-eu-citizens-them

Bullshit on steroids!

Sent from my Lenovo K52e78 using Tapatalk

[nontabury]

30 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I am increasingly coming to the view that the Brexiteers on this forum are not so much wrong as somewhat aloof to real life. Whatever it was that kept them rooted to the ground in their working lives, be it the forces or a respectable career, no longer provides that anchor.

Well what is real life?  Here we have Nigel Farage addressing a conference for the media. Not the sort of people who have supported him. And I certainly don't support his thoughts on climate change. Yet is the media, such as the Independent and the New Statesman impartial. 

 

 

[AlexRich]

On 5/24/2017 at 8:16 AM, mommysboy said:

I am increasingly coming to the view that the Brexiteers on this forum are not so much wrong as somewhat aloof to real life. Whatever it was that kept them rooted to the ground in their working lives, be it the forces or a respectable career, no longer provides that anchor.

 

Not aloof, just trying to justify their decision to back an exit ... if it turns out to have far reaching adverse economic consequences it will be for others to shoulder that burden, not them ... if they did it for their grandchildren they must really hate them, as they don't want it. 

 

In the future we'll all know who the brexiteers were ... they'll be the one's with pee stains on their gravestones!    

[sandyf]

The brexiteers idea of things going well.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/pound-sterling-fall-labour-slashes-tory-lead-election-poll-markets-brexit-a7756546.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/economy-stalling-and-household-debt-soaring-and-we-havent-even-quit-the-eu-yet-a7755336.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-consumer-confidence-lowest-level-uk-leave-eu-vote-refrendum-yougov-a7755636.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-gdp-growth-latest-news-2017-q1-quarter-per-cent-economy-a7754786.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-car-production-smmt-easter-17-year-high-timing-brexit-eu-a7754651.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/tuc-government-boost-worker-pay-living-standards-crisis-trade-union-congress-election-2017-edited-a7754666.html

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

The brexiteers idea of things going well.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/pound-sterling-fall-labour-slashes-tory-lead-election-poll-markets-brexit-a7756546.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/economy-stalling-and-household-debt-soaring-and-we-havent-even-quit-the-eu-yet-a7755336.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-consumer-confidence-lowest-level-uk-leave-eu-vote-refrendum-yougov-a7755636.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-gdp-growth-latest-news-2017-q1-quarter-per-cent-economy-a7754786.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-car-production-smmt-easter-17-year-high-timing-brexit-eu-a7754651.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/tuc-government-boost-worker-pay-living-standards-crisis-trade-union-congress-election-2017-edited-a7754666.html

 

It's a shame you can't find some unbiased information from an independent source! 

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

Not aloof, just trying to justify their decision to back an exit ... if it turns out to have far reaching adverse economic consequences it will be for others to shoulder that burden, not them ... if they did it for their grandchildren they must really hate them, as they don't want it. 

 

In the future we'll all know who the brexiteers were ... they'll be the one's with pee stains on their gravestones!    

The primary reasons for out votes were not economic and most remain fans never acknowledge this. But the economic aspect is the one most frequently used by EU supporters to justify staying in! If this EEC>EC>EU mutation had turned out to be the economic and trading partnership of European nations ,that most of the UK voters believed was the intention in the 1970's, I don't there would be a problem now!

 

[SheungWan]

7 hours ago, nauseus said:

The primary reasons for out votes were not economic and most remain fans never acknowledge this. But the economic aspect is the one most frequently used by EU supporters to justify staying in! If this EEC>EC>EU mutation had turned out to be the economic and trading partnership of European nations ,that most of the UK voters believed was the intention in the 1970's, I don't there would be a problem now!

 

Somebody arguing that economic priorities take a back seat are usually trying to sell you a pig in a poke. Interesting that the Tory storyline on Brexit is getting pushed back by the uproar on social care reform which had immediate and measurable impact on pensioners if implemented. Theresa May wobbled and another bit of Brexiteer blah that economics is disposable hit the dust. Was that the price of Brexit? was the accusation and the poll lead started shrinking. Moving on.......

[Grouse]

On 24/05/2017 at 2:27 PM, tprender said:

 

Bullshit on steroids!

Sent from my Lenovo K52e78 using Tapatalk
 

 

Your response is a little too intellectual for me. Please explain because I'm slightly deaf

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, nauseus said:

The primary reasons for out votes were not economic and most remain fans never acknowledge this. But the economic aspect is the one most frequently used by EU supporters to justify staying in! If this EEC>EC>EU mutation had turned out to be the economic and trading partnership of European nations ,that most of the UK voters believed was the intention in the 1970's, I don't there would be a problem now!

 

Should have sorted out the Islamic issue and the effect on immigration first. We are Europeans.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Grouse

[pitrevie]

32 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Somebody arguing that economic priorities take a back seat are usually trying to sell you a pig in a poke. Interesting that the Tory storyline on Brexit is getting pushed back by the uproar on social care reform which had immediate and measurable impact on pensioners if implemented. Theresa May wobbled and another bit of Brexiteer blah that economics is disposable hit the dust. Was that the price of Brexit? was the accusation and the poll lead started shrinking. Moving on.......

The hoped for collapse of the EU and the Euro don't look as if they are going to materialize. Methinks that the excuses are being put in place for the economic calamity that Brexit entails. It wasn't the money but getting our country back. What was it GBS said, "patriotism the last refuge of the scoundrel".

[AlexRich]

7 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Somebody arguing that economic priorities take a back seat are usually trying to sell you a pig in a poke. Interesting that the Tory storyline on Brexit is getting pushed back by the uproar on social care reform which had immediate and measurable impact on pensioners if implemented. Theresa May wobbled and another bit of Brexiteer blah that economics is disposable hit the dust. Was that the price of Brexit? was the accusation and the poll lead started shrinking. Moving on.......

 

Quite. Those that voted Brexit didn't think it would affect them ... May realises that care will be even less affordable in a post-Brexit world, and thought that she could sneak that one in ... a major error as Corbyn's catching up in the polls ... who would have thought? 

[AlexRich]

6 hours ago, pitrevie said:

The hoped for collapse of the EU and the Euro don't look as if they are going to materialize. Methinks that the excuses are being put in place for the economic calamity that Brexit entails. It wasn't the money but getting our country back. What was it GBS said, "patriotism the last refuge of the scoundrel".

 

As an avid watcher of Question Time I've lost count of the number of Brexiteer audience members who argue that it's best to leave the EU as it's about to collapse ... the truth is that all economies and regions go through bad patches ("sick man of Europe" anyone) only to bounce back strongly. 

[nauseus]

14 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Somebody arguing that economic priorities take a back seat are usually trying to sell you a pig in a poke. Interesting that the Tory storyline on Brexit is getting pushed back by the uproar on social care reform which had immediate and measurable impact on pensioners if implemented. Theresa May wobbled and another bit of Brexiteer blah that economics is disposable hit the dust. Was that the price of Brexit? was the accusation and the poll lead started shrinking. Moving on.......

The economy is obviously important but what part of "the primary reasons for out votes were not economic" can you not understand? 

[Scott]

A post making reference to news sources as fake news has been removed.   Making such allegations is not going to be tolerated and suspensions will be given.  

 

Because you do not like what is reported does not make it fake news.  

 

 

[pitrevie]

This is the sort of thing we are going to have to pay for whether we are in the EU or not unless of course we listen to the more extreme voices who want no part of any EU organisation and damn the consequences.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/27/eu-theresa-may-combat-terror-brexit-europol

 

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, pitrevie said:

This is the sort of thing we are going to have to pay for whether we are in the EU or not unless of course we listen to the more extreme voices who want no part of any EU organisation and damn the consequences.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/27/eu-theresa-may-combat-terror-brexit-europol

 

 

I'll be interested to see how the Brexiteers who I agree with on the Manchester bombing thread react to this. Obviously we need close cooperation will all of our European colleagues.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Grouse

[SheungWan]

The Remain campaign was successfully labelled Project Fear and the risks up until now have been seen by many as abstract and kicked down the road as an unknown. Easier therefore for Brexiteers to seize the moral high ground. The downside risk was complacency. Even the dropping of the pound was shrugged off. The sting in the tail however has been twofold. First, when people see a direct attack on their family wealth, they are not so high and mighty. The so-called Dementia Tax hit the Tories hard and fast. Even with rapid withdrawal, the question lingers as to what is the price now for Brexit. Secondly, the extra filling in this sandwich is rising inflation. Brexiteers now choking on their own menu and that is why the poll lead has dropped to single figures.

[dick dasterdly]

On 5/24/2017 at 2:16 PM, mommysboy said:

I am increasingly coming to the view that the Brexiteers on this forum are not so much wrong as somewhat aloof to real life. Whatever it was that kept them rooted to the ground in their working lives, be it the forces or a respectable career, no longer provides that anchor.

Seems unlikely as presumably the vast majority of posters are retirees living in Thailand, and consequently very interested in exchange rates?

[dick dasterdly]

20 hours ago, Grouse said:

Should have sorted out the Islamic issue and the effect on immigration first. We are Europeans.

No - we're British.

 

Of course we're also Europeans, but human nature dictates that we care more about those in the country in which we live/lived.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The Remain campaign was successfully labelled Project Fear and the risks up until now have been seen by many as abstract and kicked down the road as an unknown. Easier therefore for Brexiteers to seize the moral high ground. The downside risk was complacency. Even the dropping of the pound was shrugged off. The sting in the tail however has been twofold. First, when people see a direct attack on their family wealth, they are not so high and mighty. The so-called Dementia Tax hit the Tories hard and fast. Even with rapid withdrawal, the question lingers as to what is the price now for Brexit. Secondly, the extra filling in this sandwich is rising inflation. Brexiteers now choking on their own menu and that is why the poll lead has dropped to single figures.

on their own menu and that is why the poll lead has dropped to single figures.

This has little to do with the EU or Brexit. Care costs for the aged have increased due to the fact that more people are just living longer. The UK average life expectancy is now 81+, up ten tears from the 71 average in 1960. This puts a lot of extra folk into the zone where they are likely to need more special care because that's commonly what happens when people reach 80+! The Tories see the need for extra funding soon, as the baby boomers near 70 and start to experience senior moments every millisecond. At least the Conservatives were up front about it and included it in their UK general election manifesto, when they must have known that it would be unpopular. I guess that Jeremy and Diane would just pay for it all for a while from their money tree, until the debt cripples the whole UK economy completely and then there would be no care at all.      

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The Remain campaign was successfully labelled Project Fear and the risks up until now have been seen by many as abstract and kicked down the road as an unknown. Easier therefore for Brexiteers to seize the moral high ground. The downside risk was complacency. Even the dropping of the pound was shrugged off. The sting in the tail however has been twofold. First, when people see a direct attack on their family wealth, they are not so high and mighty. The so-called Dementia Tax hit the Tories hard and fast. Even with rapid withdrawal, the question lingers as to what is the price now for Brexit. Secondly, the extra filling in this sandwich is rising inflation. Brexiteers now choking on their own menu and that is why the poll lead has dropped to single figures.

UK inflation was on the rise before end 2016. I suppose you expected it to stay at zero forever? Or negative? Really good for the economy that! 

[Johnyo]

This has little to do with the EU or Brexit. Care costs for the aged have increased due to the fact that more people are just living longer. The UK average life expectancy is now 81+, up ten tears from the 71 average in 1960. This puts a lot of extra folk into the zone where they are likely to need more special care because that's commonly what happens when people reach 80+! The Tories see the need for extra funding soon, as the baby boomers near 70 and start to experience senior moments every millisecond. At least the Conservatives were up front about it and included it in their UK general election manifesto, when they must have known that it would be unpopular. I guess that Jeremy and Diane would just pay for it all for a while from their money tree, until the debt cripples the whole UK economy completely and then there would be no care at all.      

Yeah yeah that is why they U-turned as soon as they realised they were paying a significant political price. They are so arrogant they thought they were immune to any crap, just spout strong and stable 1000 times and all would be OK. May is a coward, she hasn't even got the balls to appear in a debate and is sending her guard dog to battle. Is this the leader that is going to deliver the best deal for the country?


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