May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Flustered]

5 hours ago, pitrevie said:

and where in schedule 1 is this required. "So you are happy having to list everyone of your addresses from the day you were born?"

 

1 The following may be recorded in an individual’s entry in the Register— (a) his full name; (b) other names by which he is or has been known; (c) his date of birth; (d) his place of birth; (e) his gender; (f) the address of his principal place of residence in the United Kingdom; (g) the address of every other place in the United Kingdom or elsewhere where he has a place of residence.

 

. 

 

5 hours ago, pitrevie said:

Yes its a registerable fact nowhere does it say that it would be required along with every other so called registerable fact. I doubt that any individual could provide even a fraction of the so called registerable facts. However what they would have expected is current residences. I have lived in multiple locations and it is impossible for me now to recall other than their general location, name of town, not a chance of providing the specific address and neither is it required.

So once again try reading the document and not making outlandish claims.

 

 

Please read posts slowly taking care to see what FMs write.

 

I stated that Labour "wanted" not "required". You are the one who inserted words into the statement to make it look different. Several FMs have been warned about changing or inserting words by the moderators, perhaps you should pay heed.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, pitrevie said:

Every time I walk into my bank here and want to transfer from one book to another I have to produce my passport and I have been doing this in the same bank for 10 years. They have copied my passport umpteen times.

I once got stuck behind a woman in the UK was was withdrawing a large sum of money and was asked for some ID. Needless to say whatever document was mentioned she did not have it but expected the teller to hand over the money without any further ID. I envy these people who are able to carry a credit card size ID in their wallet. I retain my UK driving licence because it serves as a form of ID when I am in the UK and I either have to do some banking or need to pick up a parcel at the post office. As I mentioned earlier it was something from my early twenties until I retired that I got used to having on account of the type of employment I was in. 

I thought that Brexiters would have been in favour, so quite surprised to find one that isn't given his views on the NHS, immigration etc. 

 

For the 25 years I was in the RAF I carried my Form 1250 which was the RAF identity card and I had no problems with that. I am also old enough, and still have my Mum and Dad's National registration Identity Card from WW2. As I was only born in 1944 I didn't need one.

 

I was issued my first passport through the RAF to go to Bahrain in 1963.

 

I have photo ID driving licences from PNG, New Zealand and Thailand.

 

I have had passports for many years and TBH it has never bothered my in the slightest unlike friend Grouse.

 

quote

 

  6 hours ago, Grouse said:

I'm 100% against this kind of police state stuff. I will never agree to carry an ID card or a chip implant. Thank you.

 

FYI it is NOT police state stuff at all, not that I expect you to agree, but to me it is of no consequence and no different than carrying my passport or my driving licence.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

Cast your mind back to the reassurances that were made by the likes of Boris Johnson ... this was the classic they need us more than we need them argument ... Prosseco and German cars. Of course we'll still access the single market was the cry! 

Several Brexiteers on here made similar remarks. And it was all pure and utter tosh.

 

Just a precis of weak bits and pieces, and, overall an incorrect overview. Boris and the rest of the noise realized, admitted and declared publicly that the single market possibility under present rules was not an option before the vote. TM still hopes for some kind of unique arrangement and why not? The outcome of the need us more than we need them argument is yet to be seen. 

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, nauseus said:

2 hours ago, pitrevie said:

And the facts are that debt has increased under the Tories.

Even adjusted for inflation, public sector net debt rose £450 billion between 2010/11 and 2015/16, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility.

The government set deficit targets in 2010 (which it didn’t meet) and in 2015 (which it abandoned), Full Fact explain.
As a result, UK government debt has continued to rise.

 

And the solution to that is "withdraw from the EU", yep that should solve things.

And they are quite prepared to add the unknown cost of the withdrawal to the national debt. Not looking good for the younger generation.

 

Your post was a follow-on, agreeing with Pitrevie's assertion that the debt has increased due to the Tories. Well the primary reason that the UK debt increased, like it did in may countries, was the 2008 financial crisis. The Tories actually reduced borrowing during the aftermath but the damage was done.

 

AND if the cost of Brexit is unknown how can you ADD it anyway? Duh. 

 

So you think the cost of brexit will be taken away from the national debt.

[AlexRich]

24 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Just a precis of weak bits and pieces, and, overall an incorrect overview. Boris and the rest of the noise realized, admitted and declared publicly that the single market possibility under present rules was not an option before the vote. TM still hopes for some kind of unique arrangement and why not? The outcome of the need us more than we need them argument is yet to be seen. 

Johnson said nothing of the sort ... he was for "having cake and eating it" ... and that's the message he was promulgating before the vote. He was the biggest liar out there.

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, sandyf said:

So you think the cost of brexit will be taken away from the national debt.

No, read, I said that the cost is unknown. However, the amount of EU contributions is. Debt argument dead then? Good.

3 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Johnson said nothing of the sort ... he was for "having cake and eating it" ... and that's the message he was promulgating before the vote. He was the biggest liar out there.

He did and he and others corrected this view before the vote. 

[jpinx]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Why would the financial interests of the world exert equal pressure on both sides of the negotiations? There seems to be some kind of subconscious assumption lurking in the minds of Brexiters that the British Empire is still extant.

Equal pressures are not assumed, but anyone who thinks the commercial and financial pressures are not what mould government policies is deluding themselves.  The UK, Dutch, Spanish, Chinese and other empires are all long since dead and gone, but we are still governed by the pressure of money flow.  

[beautifulthailand99]

Just watching Corbyn live on Sky he might just win this and wind back Brexit ....

 

https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/869114050403328000/video/1

[pitrevie]

8 hours ago, Flustered said:

 

 

 

Please read posts slowly taking care to see what FMs write.

 

I stated that Labour "wanted" not "required". You are the one who inserted words into the statement to make it look different. Several FMs have been warned about changing or inserting words by the moderators, perhaps you should pay heed.

This is the outlandish statement you made, "So you are happy having to list everyone of your addresses from the day you were born?" being the reason that you would not accept ID cards. I pointed out that there is no such requirement in fact I doubt that a very large number of people would be able to provide such information and certainly I know I could not. It is one of the registerable facts just like a NI number is a registerable fact. I go back to my original statement that you claim is outlandish and not only that but you then produce the document which indicates that is the case. There was never any requirement for anyone applying for an ID card to list every address from the day they were born whether Labour wanted or required it.

[pitrevie]

7 hours ago, sandyf said:

So you think the cost of brexit will be taken away from the national debt.

Had he bothered to look at the link I posted it states, "The Conservatives have been the biggest borrowers over the last 70 years" That includes the period from 2008 when Labour were faced with the financial crisis in the Private Financial Sector (Banks) thanks to a situation that arose under a right wing president in the USA and rapidly spread throughout the western world. In fact the author of the piece goes out of his way to take into account the 2008 financial crisis which he thought might have distorted the picture. However he still came to the same conclusion, Labour definitely borrowed less and repay national debt much more often in absolute and percentage terms than the Conservatives.

[Khun Han]

15 hours ago, Basil B said:

I have always thought there should be a ID card system for all, with today's technologies there would not even be any need to actually carry a card as hopefully the police and other agencies would have the technology to call up a photo from the database or confirm by finger printing.  

 

I just got a new ten year photo drivers license which came back with the same photo that I provided for my recent passport renewal. There is clearly a shared database.

[ilostmypassword]

46 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Had he bothered to look at the link I posted it states, "The Conservatives have been the biggest borrowers over the last 70 years" That includes the period from 2008 when Labour were faced with the financial crisis in the Private Financial Sector (Banks) thanks to a situation that arose under a right wing president in the USA and rapidly spread throughout the western world. In fact the author of the piece goes out of his way to take into account the 2008 financial crisis which he thought might have distorted the picture. However he still came to the same conclusion, Labour definitely borrowed less and repay national debt much more often in absolute and percentage terms than the Conservatives.

There are lots and lots of things to legitimately lambaste George W. Bush for. But the financial crisis in Europe isn't one of them. Banks foolishly lent large sums of money to private - not government - interests in Spain and Ireland. They lent impossibly large sums to the governments of Greece and Portugal. It was bankers' greed that led to the crisis. And the EU made it worse by socializing the debt and bailing out the banks and by deciding that austerity was the best approach to resolving the crisis.

[Scott]

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[pitrevie]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

There are lots and lots of things to legitimately lambaste George W. Bush for. But the financial crisis in Europe isn't one of them. Banks foolishly lent large sums of money to private - not government - interests in Spain and Ireland. They lent impossibly large sums to the governments of Greece and Portugal. It was bankers' greed that led to the crisis. And the EU made it worse by socializing the debt and bailing out the banks and by deciding that austerity was the best approach to resolving the crisis.

I will try again since my previous post violated forum rules. I would not even begin to blame Bush as the author of the 2008 crisis but the fact remains he took over following 8 years of growth under the previous incumbent and when he left office we were in the middle of the biggest financial crisis in living memory, brought about initially by the collapse of Lehman Brothers which almost brought down the world's financial system and that evolved into a Euro crisis. As you indicate banker's greed led to the crisis which originated further back when banks and the financial system was were turned into casinos.

As a result of that crisis the EU attempted to introduce much stricter banking regulations but as usual our own terrible twins Cameron and Osborne opposed any such move. What always surprises me is that it is the EU that wants to take tough action whether its tougher banking regulations or preventing the dumping of cheap Chinese steel and its the UK that opposes it. 

[Laughing Gravy]

17 hours ago, Grouse said:

If you sent your postal vote today you're too late. Proxy by email is OK.

 

Now then, what years were you reading your undergraduate degree? I'll bet it was fully funded and, if your parents weren't so well off, you would have got a full maintenance grant. You sure all your ducks are in a row here?

No it went with a friend to the UK and my form said I had until the 8th June 2017. I got my fees paid for my undergraduate degree. I was older than 21, as I had done my time in the army, so I had to pay myself to live, eat etc etc  (worked jobs) for your information. Student loans had only come out at the end.

 

Anyway Grouse I have to say you sound more like Diane Abbott by the day. I suppose you will be saying Corbyn is the man for the UK.

 

I am not a Conservative  but Labour has lost its true identity and the Lib dems don't deserve a comment from me. It is the better of the two evils as you say.

 

We have different views lets keep it at that.

 

 

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, pitrevie said:

I will try again since my previous post violated forum rules. I would not even begin to blame Bush as the author of the 2008 crisis but the fact remains he took over following 8 years of growth under the previous incumbent and when he left office we were in the middle of the biggest financial crisis in living memory, brought about initially by the collapse of Lehman Brothers which almost brought down the world's financial system and that evolved into a Euro crisis. As you indicate banker's greed led to the crisis which originated further back when banks and the financial system was were turned into casinos.

As a result of that crisis the EU attempted to introduce much stricter banking regulations but as usual our own terrible twins Cameron and Osborne opposed any such move. What always surprises me is that it is the EU that wants to take tough action whether its tougher banking regulations or preventing the dumping of cheap Chinese steel and its the UK that opposes it. 

So you mean that the 2008 financial crisis was the driver of UK debt after 2008? 

 

[Basil B]

5 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

I just got a new ten year photo drivers license which came back with the same photo that I provided for my recent passport renewal. There is clearly a shared database.

Yes that is true...

 

But there again I still have the old style paper licence with no photo card.

[RuamRudy]

21 hours ago, Grouse said:

I'm 100% against this kind of police state stuff. I will never agree to carry an ID card or a chip implant. Thank you

The answer is maybe much simpler.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

No it went with a friend to the UK and my form said I had until the 8th June 2017. I got my fees paid for my undergraduate degree. I was older than 21, as I had done my time in the army, so I had to pay myself to live, eat etc etc  (worked jobs) for your information. Student loans had only come out at the end.

 

Anyway Grouse I have to say you sound more like Diane Abbott by the day. I suppose you will be saying Corbyn is the man for the UK.

 

I am not a Conservative  but Labour has lost its true identity and the Lib dems don't deserve a comment from me. It is the better of the two evils as you say.

 

We have different views lets keep it at that.

 

 

 

Oh no! Not Dianne Abbott! Please no, I can take anything but not that.....

[Flustered]

25 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Oh no! Not Dianne Abbott! Please no, I can take anything but not that.....

Don't forget that after the election and when she retires from the HoC that will be "Baroness Diane Abbott" to you as she sticks her oversized snout into the HoL trough.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Flustered
I should of course have said Baroness

[SheungWan]

On 5/29/2017 at 0:37 PM, Grouse said:

Consider this, University Trinity Term ends 17 June. A little cynical to choose 8 June for the election? If you have been to Uni you would realise that the last week of term is not to be missed.....

 

Should be able to vote online actually.

Ever so occasionally you bark up the wrong tree and bay at the moon.

[Flustered]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Ever so occasionally you bark up the wrong tree and bay at the moon.

Sometimes I read your posts and pray that you might make a contribution to the thread. You did this once and it was very informative.

 

Why do you post pointless remarks at FMs when you are capable of sensible contributions?

[dick dasterdly]

22 hours ago, Grouse said:

You think students have limitless wealth? 

 

You think the average 18-21 year old would prioritise going home to vote over hanging out at Uni? You once said you had several degrees? Which university were you at? No balls? No fun? Halcyon days indeed!

 

You think the Con Party don't know this? It's cynical I tell you.

 

In my day, at this time of year, the done thing was to be seen rolling up at breakfast still in your dinner jacket from from the night before with bow tie akimbo!

 

Go home a week early???

I agree to a large extent.  The average uni student didn't care enough to go home and vote in the referendum.

 

Oh sorry, you're talking about the election?  It seems likely the same will apply in the general election.

 

Mind you, I'm so happy to hear that in your day "the done thing was to be seen rolling up at breakfast still in your dinner jacket from from the night before with bow tie akimbo!".

 

Most of us don't boast about turning up in the previous day's clothes at breakfast the next morning - but I'm sure its more worthy of respect when turning up in a dinner jacket and with bow tie akimbo.....

[dick dasterdly]

22 hours ago, sandyf said:

Why do you continually try and take a post in a different direction.

 

Its quite simple I agree with Grouse " I would not like to see her with a huge majority. "  because I do not trust her either.  There is little doubt she will win and at this particular point in time I believe it may well be beneficial to have a minority government.

I'd agree - but we already know your view about the apocalyptic nature of brexit - and why you are therefore likely to prefer a minority government that may possibly result in non-brexit.

[Flustered]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'd agree - but we already know your view about the apocalyptic nature of brexit - and why you are therefore likely to prefer a minority government that may possibly result in non-brexit.

Much as I love banter, it is good to see a very sensible post.

 

Hit the nail on the head....

[SheungWan]

On 5/29/2017 at 2:54 PM, Flustered said:

Standards are relative according to what is available. You cannot compare today and say you are better off than yesterday as different items are available in different eras.

 

Just because we did not have an ultra high definition TV in the 50s and had a 7" black and white Pye does not mean we were worse off. Just because we went on holiday to Margate instead of Marbella does not mean we were worse off. There was much about the 50s that was superior to today's dumbed down world. The NHS worked and was a shining example of how a medical system should be. A university degree meant something other than a piece of paper saying you had a BA in "Circus Management". The population born in the 40s and 50s are estimated to outlive those born in the 70s onwards.

 

As for the rest, I agree with it.

If you went on holiday to Margate instead of Marbella you were definitely worse off.

[dick dasterdly]

22 hours ago, Grouse said:

I'm 100% against this kind of police state stuff. I will never agree to carry an ID card or a chip implant. Thank you

Funny how we change our minds when moving abroad!

 

Living in Thailand, I'm now used to keeping my passport on me at all times .  Nonetheless, I agree and hate the idea of it being necessary to carry an ID card in the UK.

 

When it comes to NHS care, an NI number should be enough and easily trackable in the computer system.

[Flustered]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

If you went on holiday to Margate instead of Marbella you were definitely worse off.

Groan....yet another pointless post without any contribution to the thread.

[Flustered]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Funny how we change our minds when moving abroad!

 

Living in Thailand, I'm now used to keeping my passport on me at all times .  Nonetheless, I agree and hate the idea of it being necessary to carry an ID card in the UK.

 

When it comes to NHS care, an NI number should be enough and easily trackable in the computer system.

I think that keeping your passport with you at all times is very sensible. That way you know where it is.

[SheungWan]

2 minutes ago, Flustered said:

I think that keeping your passport with you at all times is very sensible. That way you know where it is.

Wereas if you keep it in the safe you obviously forget where it is. Is this the logic that will lead us towards the sunny uplands post-Brexit?