May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[pitrevie]

4 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Hey, I'm hardly a fan of Trump. But, in view of the fat that he's only been POTUS for a short few months, has he yet had the opportunity to actually renege on any major promises yet?

Yes would you like the list?

[Khun Han]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40540340

 

Read it and weep (and prevaricate) remainers. Cling to Merkel's skirt

Edited July 9, 2017 by Khun Han

[vogie]

It seems the remain side were the biggest liars?

 

 

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, jpinx said:

Apologies for the lack of a reference link, but it's buried in the past postings about the "bill" from EU for UK's departure.  I have no point to prove - it's there for reading by anyone with an open mind.  The EU talked about the redline being crossed if UK talked to future trading partners.  If you missed that point, it would explain your fundamental misunderstanding of what's going on in the run-up to the negotiations.

I haven't missed any point. There have been red lines laid down by both sides and more so by the UK. You cannot antagonise the other side without being reminded on the rules of engagement. Any talk of a "bill" is academic, there are no facts for anyone to read.

You seem to think that the EU pointing out the legalities of the negotiations should be seen as a threat, but that the UK prepared to walk away from its legal obligations is considered quite acceptable when in fact it is a bit of an embarrassment in terms of the so called British values.

[sandyf]

12 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

"Ah.....er.....a trade deal with the USA is not worth having."

The UK already trades with the USA and has a trade surplus. You obviously believe that leaving the EU is going improve trade over and above current levels and increase the trade surplus.

Where does Trump's promise to reduce the US trade deficit come into play with the new agreement?   Anyone can trade at a loss, we can only hope that TM takes her own advice "no deal is better than a bad deal".

[pitrevie]

16 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The UK already trades with the USA and has a trade surplus. You obviously believe that leaving the EU is going improve trade over and above current levels and increase the trade surplus.

Where does Trump's promise to reduce the US trade deficit come into play with the new agreement?   Anyone can trade at a loss, we can only hope that TM takes her own advice "no deal is better than a bad deal".

I have asked many times on here before who is it exactly that we are going to trade with following Brexit that we couldn't trade with while we were members of the EU. The fact that Khun Han is getting excited over some trade agreement with the USA suggests that he thinks that once we are free of the EU our trade with the USA will reach levels never before possible. Given the size of the EU and the size of the UK who is going to negotiate the most favourable trade deal?. This is something that even dawned on Trump that it was far more advantageous to do a trade deal with the EU than with the UK. 

I have even come across Brexiters rejoicing in the fact that now we would soon be free of the EU we would be able to sell a destroyer to the Australian Navy.

[Kwasaki]

11 hours ago, elliss said:

Really , my faithful  Kwacker ,  is a Jap  import . UK/EU cannot compete .

  Fond memories  of my old  BSA ,  Gold Star .  Those were the days of Great Britain.

   Never to return , RIP .

I've already said sorry for the wind up,  my Kwaka Versys was built in Thailand. 

Had BSA,  and other UK bikes until the Jap ones came. 

I guess it's awkward me saying l like the German BM Adventure. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by Kwasaki

[mommysboy]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

I see Germany's trade surplus is 300 Billion USD compared to China's 200 Billion USD and our deficit!

 

I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel for the UK for generations unless we start to get a grip!

We can export fairy dust.  The Brexiters have got tons of it.  Hey presto!

[nauseus]

9 hours ago, SheungWan said:

I had a Raleigh Bicycle and Singer Gazelle and Austin Allegro.

Figures! 

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, pitrevie said:

I have asked many times on here before who is it exactly that we are going to trade with following Brexit that we couldn't trade with while we were members of the EU. The fact that Khun Han is getting excited over some trade agreement with the USA suggests that he thinks that once we are free of the EU our trade with the USA will reach levels never before possible. Given the size of the EU and the size of the UK who is going to negotiate the most favourable trade deal?. This is something that even dawned on Trump that it was far more advantageous to do a trade deal with the EU than with the UK. 

I have even come across Brexiters rejoicing in the fact that now we would soon be free of the EU we would be able to sell a destroyer to the Australian Navy.

I'll be the first to admit that I know bugger all when it comes to trade agreements with other countries.  But I'm old enough to remember how food prices increased significantly after joining the EU - as various EU food  'lakes' and 'mountains' became the 'norm'.  EU farmers were paid far more than the market price for their produce - resulting in said lakes and mountains.

 

Previously far cheaper imports from other (non EU countries) virtually disappeared or became far more expensive.

 

Its possible that the EU farming subsidies (nowadays directed towards trying to 'turn back the clock' by paying farmers to re-plant hedgerows and the like?) are now low enough that that EU farmers can compete with the rest of the world on price - but I doubt it.

[SheungWan]

57 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Figures! 

By the time even diehards realised that British mass made cars were junk it was all over.

The most interesting one for me was French made. Citroen DS23.

 

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by SheungWan

[sandyf]

42 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'll be the first to admit that I know bugger all when it comes to trade agreements with other countries.  But I'm old enough to remember how food prices increased significantly after joining the EU - as various EU food  'lakes' and 'mountains' became the 'norm'.  EU farmers were paid far more than the market price for their produce - resulting in said lakes and mountains.

 

Previously far cheaper imports from other (non EU countries) virtually disappeared or became far more expensive.

 

Its possible that the EU farming subsidies (nowadays directed towards trying to 'turn back the clock' by paying farmers to re-plant hedgerows and the like?) are now low enough that that EU farmers can compete with the rest of the world on price - but I doubt it.

When it comes to fresh produce, a large chunk of those cheaper imports you refer to died a death every time there was a customs hold up so there is no guarantee that they would still be available as "cheap" imports.

The single market allows produce to be picked on mainland Europe one day and on your table the next. Once customs control gets reinstated the quality of EU produce will go down and the price will go up.

[sandyf]

So much for "They need us more than we need them"

 

"Ministers have frequently claimed that German carmakers, along with other key European industries such as French farmers and winemakers, would lobby their governments to agree a comprehensive deal which maintains tariff-free trade between the UK and the other 27 EU member states."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-germany-business-warns-theresa-may-protect-single-market-trade-deal-uk-a7831401.html

[Grouse]

https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377

 

Balance from the FT as always

[AGareth2]

this whole fiasco is a disaster

[dick dasterdly]

51 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'll be the first to admit that I know bugger all when it comes to trade agreements with other countries.  But I'm old enough to remember how food prices increased significantly after joining the EU - as various EU food  'lakes' and 'mountains' became the 'norm'.  EU farmers were paid far more than the market price for their produce - resulting in said lakes and mountains.

 

Previously far cheaper imports from other (non EU countries) virtually disappeared or became far more expensive.

 

Its possible that the EU farming subsidies (nowadays directed towards trying to 'turn back the clock' by paying farmers to re-plant hedgerows and the like?) are now low enough that that EU farmers can compete with the rest of the world on price - but I doubt it.

 

Just now, sandyf said:

When it comes to fresh produce, a large chunk of those cheaper imports you refer to died a death every time there was a customs hold up so there is no guarantee that they would still be available as "cheap" imports.

The single market allows produce to be picked on mainland Europe one day and on your table the next. Once customs control gets reinstated the quality of EU produce will go down and the price will go up.

So you disagree with the points made in my post?

 

" a large chunk of those cheaper imports you refer to died a death every time there was a customs hold up"  - doesn't change the fact (?) that farm produce used to be cheaper before joining the EU.

 

You've changed my point from food imports to "fresh produce" whilst ignoring the points raised.  A good ploy, but a tad obvious.

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, pitrevie said:

I have asked many times on here before who is it exactly that we are going to trade with following Brexit that we couldn't trade with while we were members of the EU. The fact that Khun Han is getting excited over some trade agreement with the USA suggests that he thinks that once we are free of the EU our trade with the USA will reach levels never before possible. Given the size of the EU and the size of the UK who is going to negotiate the most favourable trade deal?. This is something that even dawned on Trump that it was far more advantageous to do a trade deal with the EU than with the UK. 

I have even come across Brexiters rejoicing in the fact that now we would soon be free of the EU we would be able to sell a destroyer to the Australian Navy.

Exactly. I tried to sell into the US and failed. Spent a significant amount on product specifically designed for the US and funded exhibitions but got nowhere, at the end of the day certain product categories are just priced out of the market.

Trump is only interested in exports to the UK, additional imports are not on the agenda. He has the UK over a barrel, it has to be his way or a UK WTO arrangement.

Its the same with India which has never concluded a deal with a western nation, the UK could be the first if they capitulate on the visas, or would that be a U turn on immigration policy.

The whole concept of being better off in global trade is delusional.

[Flustered]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

You've changed my point from food imports to "fresh produce" 

Standard procedure for the FM. 

 

Take a clear statement and alter it to make it look worse.

 

The majority of British today do not remember that when we joined the EEC (Common Market), food prices jumped up as we had to pay levies on our usual sources.

 

Re the negotiations, TMs hand is made stronger every day by members of the EU coming out and stating the truth and not the normal fake news from the remain side..

 

EU will be in BIG trouble!' Hungarian MP claims Britain will BENEFIT from 'no trade deal'

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/825764/Brexit-Britain-no-trade-deal-Britain-Hungary-Peter-Szijj-rt-Theresa-May-Japan-Tusk

[pitrevie]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'll be the first to admit that I know bugger all when it comes to trade agreements with other countries.  But I'm old enough to remember how food prices increased significantly after joining the EU - as various EU food  'lakes' and 'mountains' became the 'norm'.  EU farmers were paid far more than the market price for their produce - resulting in said lakes and mountains.

 

Previously far cheaper imports from other (non EU countries) virtually disappeared or became far more expensive.

 

Its possible that the EU farming subsidies (nowadays directed towards trying to 'turn back the clock' by paying farmers to re-plant hedgerows and the like?) are now low enough that that EU farmers can compete with the rest of the world on price - but I doubt it.

Well we are about to get a double whammy they apparently rose when we went in and now this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/9572171/Misery-for-households-as-food-prices-soar-at-twice-the-EU-average.html

 

[sandyf]

12 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

So you disagree with the points made in my post?

 

" a large chunk of those cheaper imports you refer to died a death every time there was a customs hold up"  - doesn't change the fact (?) that farm produce used to be cheaper before joining the EU.

 

You've changed my point from food imports to "fresh produce" whilst ignoring the points raised.  A good ploy, but a tad obvious.

I haven't changed anything and apologise if you are saying that your idea of farm produce is not fresh produce.

As for being cheaper I took your word on that but I know for a fact that a lot of fresh produce never left the docks. If a supplier was on a contract then there would be little that could have been done. There is nothing to indicate that any supplier would not put their price up once the level of loss had been established. Its a bit of an unknown to say that cheaper imports would be available.

[nontabury]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

It seems the remain side were the biggest liars?

 

 

And they're still shoveling out the same rubbish. Just last week a report was published by the Remain side,predicting a drop in house values of 40% due to Brexit.  Guarantee that will not happen. It's all scare stories intending to frighten the electorate. 

 

 

[Flustered]

16 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I haven't changed anything and apologise if you are saying that your idea of farm produce is not fresh produce.

 

DD never mentioned the word "fresh".that was your interpretation of his post.

 

Farm produce in our shops today is far from fresh. Fruit and root vegetables are often stored in warehouses for up to one year in a nitrogen or cold atmosphere to stop them form ageing. meat is stored for anywhere up to six months.

 

There is very little fresh farm produce on the shelves today. You need to grow your own for that.

 

This is from the DM in 2011 and much progress has been made in storage since then.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370130/Just-fresh-fresh-food-supermarket.html

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'll be the first to admit that I know bugger all when it comes to trade agreements with other countries.  But I'm old enough to remember how food prices increased significantly after joining the EU - as various EU food  'lakes' and 'mountains' became the 'norm'.  EU farmers were paid far more than the market price for their produce - resulting in said lakes and mountains.

 

Previously far cheaper imports from other (non EU countries) virtually disappeared or became far more expensive.

 

Its possible that the EU farming subsidies (nowadays directed towards trying to 'turn back the clock' by paying farmers to re-plant hedgerows and the like?) are now low enough that that EU farmers can compete with the rest of the world on price - but I doubt it.

It would appear I made mistake, quite obvious you meant a lake of bottled milk and a mountain of tinned carrots.

[jpinx]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

I haven't missed any point. There have been red lines laid down by both sides and more so by the UK. You cannot antagonise the other side without being reminded on the rules of engagement. Any talk of a "bill" is academic, there are no facts for anyone to read.

You seem to think that the EU pointing out the legalities of the negotiations should be seen as a threat, but that the UK prepared to walk away from its legal obligations is considered quite acceptable when in fact it is a bit of an embarrassment in terms of the so called British values.

Fair comment - both the UK and the EU people are guilty of drawing redlines.  Can we move on now, please?  Personally, I don't have strong views anymore - though a year ago I was originally an advocate of "walk-away". Things have moved on now and we will need to negotiate --  in the true sense of the word.

Edited July 9, 2017 by jpinx

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

So much for "They need us more than we need them"

 

"Ministers have frequently claimed that German carmakers, along with other key European industries such as French farmers and winemakers, would lobby their governments to agree a comprehensive deal which maintains tariff-free trade between the UK and the other 27 EU member states."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-germany-business-warns-theresa-may-protect-single-market-trade-deal-uk-a7831401.html

 

Fred was a remarkable singer (saw live 3 times). He sounds strained here.  Perhaps he'd been arguing with a Brexiteer beforehand.

Edited July 9, 2017 by mommysboy

[nontabury]

42 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Fair comment - both the UK and the EU people are guilty of drawing redlines.  Can we move on now, please?  Personally, I don't have strong views anymore - though a year ago I was originally an advocate of "walk-away". Things have moved on now and we will need to negotiate --  in the true sense of the word.

And the EU will also have to negotiate. Which I think they will do. The alternative is for the UK to simple walk away. And I don't think that will be to the EU's advantage.

 

[mommysboy]

3 minutes ago, nontabury said:

And the EU will also have to negotiate. Which I think they will do. The alternative is for the UK to simple walk away. And I don't think that will be to the EU's advantage.

 

 

Straight in to the stormy waters of the Atlantic.

[Flustered]

Just watching Euro News and the Spanish Economy Minister Luis de Guindos being interviewed and saying that the EU needs to be reasonable with the UK and stop threatening them. He said that Spain needs a good relationship with the UK and that their economy depends on it.

 

Despite what Junkers and Barnier beat their chests and say, it will be the individual countries elected MPs that have the final say as they have to be held responsible to their electorate. 

 

Junkers and Barnier will have to climb down in the end and face reality. The EU needs the UK far more than the other way round and the various EU countries MPs and ministers know this.

[Flustered]

11 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

Straight in to the stormy waters of the Atlantic.

That's the English Channel, not the Atlantic. 

 

A product of Blair's dumbing down of education perhaps? 555

[beautifulthailand99]

Good except for the word 'potentially' I'd remove that !

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vince-cable-liberal-democrat-leader-brexit-may-never-happen-a7831526.html`

 

“I’m beginning to think that Brexit may never happen,” he told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show. “The problems are so enormous, the divisions within the two major parties are so enormous, I can see a scenario in which this doesn’t happen.

 

“Our policy of having a second referendum, which didn’t really cut through in the general election, is designed to give a way out when it becomes clear that Brexit is potentially disastrous."

Edited July 9, 2017 by beautifulthailand99