May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[beautifulthailand99]

On 13/07/2017 at 7:04 PM, SheungWan said:

Never Go Back.

There's a lot of people who made that mistake in Thailand !

[aright]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The sovereignty issue was already comprehensively debunked by May in the section 50 notice.

 

The Economist debunked the "unelected" slur recently. I'll post it.

Please if you would.  I assume you are saying when we leave the EU our laws will still be made in Brussels

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, aright said:

Please if you would.  I assume you are saying when we leave the EU our laws will still be made in Brussels

The laws will be made by the European Parliament, whose members are elected.

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

As far as knowing what 'electorates wanted', at election time Tony Blair the most successful UK party leader ever.

It turned out we wanted 'free' stuff on the national credit card. Trouble is we have the bill now - HOW MUCH and with interest as well. Was a great party whilst it lasted though topped off with the party to end all parties The Olympics.

Edited July 15, 2017 by beautifulthailand99

[soalbundy]

10 minutes ago, aright said:

Anyone from outer space reading Mr Blairs article or this post would think the Referendum issue  was a single issue vote;  "Immigration and the free movement of people". I voted out as did many others because the most important issue for us was Sovereignty and still is. The people issue was not an over riding issue . Perhaps the remainers on this post can tell us how pleased they are to have people in Brussels who they did not elect making laws for them and comment on  the other Brexit issues. 

Get on with it Theresa 

How sovereign are you after you have put your cross on the ballot paper?  Westminster does what it wants, the average man on the street has no say in policies, yes after 4 years you can vote them out,unless they form a coalition ( DUP anyone ) but voters memories are short from watching love island or big brother. What you mean is you prefer to be shafted by a British government instead of a EU government.

[aright]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

The laws will be made by the European Parliament, whose members are elected.

Yes MPs elected by Germans, French, Spaniards etc. That cedes sovereignty to Europe.

I want British laws formulated and voted through by British MP's.

[Grouse]

Just now, aright said:

Yes MPs elected by Germans, French, Spaniards etc. That cedes sovereignty to Europe.

I want British laws formulated and voted through by British MP's.

Please read up a bit on this ?

[aright]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Please read up a bit on this ?

Can you save me the time and enlighten me

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, aright said:

Please if you would.  I assume you are saying when we leave the EU our laws will still be made in Brussels

https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2017/07/economist-explains-10

 

This concerns "unelected" Brussels Eurocrats specifically.

[soalbundy]

Just now, aright said:

Yes MPs elected by Germans, French, Spaniards etc. That cedes sovereignty to Europe.

I want British laws formulated and voted through by British MP's.

There are also British MP's in the EU parliament, are British laws by British MP's somehow better ? It's a wonder you didn't write krauts,frogs and dago MP's

[nauseus]

23 minutes ago, Grouse said:

OK. So who benefits from your trust?

 

A year ago we had the fast growth rate in the G7; now we're the slowest. Meanwhile EU growth has strengthened.

 

Politically, the EU is much stronger after the Austrian, Dutch and French elections. Assuming Germany votes sensibly later in the year, the EU will be much stronger than previously.

 

With Merkel on board, watch for positive modest changes.

Your first question/comment just refers to an opinion of mine. Who benefits from yours?

 

The G7 is not the EU and the numbers Q on Q are all poor anyway - Canada top at 0.9%! I don't think any leavers seriously  expected a Brexit vote to cause a mass of investment. If you mean that the EU is much stronger as a result of staving off the election of populist political parties in EU countries, then I disagree as Brexit will weaken the EU more than they care to admit .

 

Merkel has not only been on board for some time, she is also the Kapitan! Her recent insane orders regarding immigration have already fueled mutiny. 

Edited July 15, 2017 by nauseus

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, aright said:

Yes MPs elected by Germans, French, Spaniards etc. That cedes sovereignty to Europe.

I want British laws formulated and voted through by British MP's.

Laws are not proposed or made by MEPs - they are just rubber stamped by them.

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

Can you save me the time and enlighten me

Far too many but this is interesting

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-what-proportion-influenced-eu/

 

Of course we have to harmonise standards and regulations if we want to trade from outside the EU

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Your first question/comment just refers to an opinion of mine. Who benefits from yours?

 

The G7 is not the EU and the numbers Q on Q are all poor anyway - Canada top at 0.9%! I don't think any leavers seriously  expected a Brexit vote to cause a mass of investment. If you mean that the EU is much stronger as a result of staving off the election of populist political parties in EU countries, then I disagree as Brexit will weaken the EU more than they care to admit .

 

Merkel has not only been on board for some time, she is also the Kapitan! Her recent insane orders regarding immigration have already fueled mutiny. 

Vince Cable, Ken Clark, Hillary Benn! Not many others....

 

BTW you confuse immigration generally with refugees. No easy solution to this but I see light at the end of the tunnel. A "Marshall" plan for Iraq and Syria will hopefully reverse the flow.

[aright]

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2017/07/economist-explains-10

 

This concerns "unelected" Brussels Eurocrats specifically.

Speed reading I am struck by no one disputes the EU's democratic deficit or its lack of direct accountability to voters which is what I thought I said

[dick dasterdly]

23 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Again, if you read things fully you might have a clearer view which side of the fence is more attractive ?

 

EU GDP is about 20 trillion Euro. That's 20,000,000,000,000 Euro

 

5 Billion waste is .025%

 

Lets concentrate on the big stuff like happiness, peace, prosperity and fairness

From where did you get your 5bn waste figure?  I'm interested to find out the aspects included and excluded.

 

Re. " happiness, peace, prosperity and fairness" - I assume this is a joke?

[nauseus]

14 minutes ago, nauseus said:

s not only been on board for some time, she is also the Kapitan! H

 

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Vince Cable, Ken Clark, Hillary Benn! Not many others....

 

BTW you confuse immigration generally with refugees. No easy solution to this but I see light at the end of the tunnel. A "Marshall" plan for Iraq and Syria will hopefully reverse the flow.

The Three Amigos - oh great!

 

I am not confusing anything that you assume that I might be. The light at the end of the tunnel that you talk of must be from a dream. A very bad one!   

[Johnyo]

Wrong. The majority arrived after the EU was created. There was limited immigration from the commonwealth and elsewhere up to the early 1990's, with a large contingent from Muslim countries like Bangladesh and Pakistan coming to the UK. But after Blair got to power the overall numbers increased dramatically and rose up as much as tenfold. Merkel has just compounded this problem by effectively opening the doors of Europe to just about anyone - this has actually hurt the chances of true refugees reaching safety and care.  

Wow you really have been brainwashed by project fear.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Johnyo said:

 

Wow you really have been brainwashed by project fear.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Why? This is just what has happened. Total annual immigration into the UK has gone from about 100-200k before the 90's to 300-600k+ after that. These numbers are published by the UK government. Project Fear was the all-round propaganda mission by the remain camp to keep the UK in the EU after the referendum, of course it did not say much about immigration! 

[vogie]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

What was the correct way to deal with refugees?

Come on grouse, get real, you know as well as I, most are economic migrants as you have stated in many of your posts, but it just doesn't fit your agenda at the moment. 

[melvinmelvin]

57 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Vince Cable, Ken Clark, Hillary Benn! Not many others....

 

BTW you confuse immigration generally with refugees. No easy solution to this but I see light at the end of the tunnel. A "Marshall" plan for Iraq and Syria will hopefully reverse the flow.

 

and Africa? no plan? increasing stream of nomads?

 

 

[goldenbrwn1]

15 minutes ago, vogie said:

Come on grouse, get real, you know as well as I, most are economic migrants as you have stated in many of your posts, but it just doesn't fit your agenda at the moment. 

Yes merkal and EU <deleted>###d up big time. And they know it . This brexit happened because of it . Sure there prob would of been a high vote still on leaving but staying in would of won in my opinion. These brexit negotiations ( if you go by the msm) at the moment look like hand bags at dawn but I'm hopeful behind the scenes at least , everyone is trying to sort this mess for both sides. At the end of the day , 1 of the big 3 in the EU has voted to leave, a member who has the second biggest economy in the EU and is the second largest net contributer and 5th largest economy  in the world , a country with Nuclear capabilities and a seat at the UN with veto powers!   No matter how many times the EU says brexit is not the first thing on their agenda , no matter how many times they spew it, behind the scenes a total different story, this is huge. 

 

Now iv forgot what my point was...I'm in hua hin st some water park on my umpteenth Chang so soz for chatting shi## e. 

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I can see Strasbourg being dumped that was a Gaullist vanity anyway. The main point is - it won't be Berlin!

Whereas I can't see it being dumped as its only a completely ridiculous waste of tax payer money!

 

Not Strasbourg as such obviously - just the incomprehensible idea of wasting so much tax payer money moving both EMPs and administrative staff between two centres.  All of whom will receive LARGE allowances for doing so, and likely the majority of whom will travel first class.....

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2017/07/economist-explains-10

 

This concerns "unelected" Brussels Eurocrats specifically.

 

an OK read

 

should be added that the hordes of red-tapers drawing up rules/regulations/admiistrative practices

deep down in the dungeons of British ministerial buildings are not elected and are not accountable either

 

 

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Yes merkal and EU <deleted>###d up big time. And they know it . This brexit happened because of it . Sure there prob would of been a high vote still on leaving but staying in would of won in my opinion. These brexit negotiations ( if you go by the msm) at the moment look like hand bags at dawn but I'm hopeful behind the scenes at least , everyone is trying to sort this mess for both sides. At the end of the day , 1 of the big 3 in the EU has voted to leave, a member who has the second biggest economy in the EU and is the second largest net contributer and 5th largest economy  in the world , a country with Nuclear capabilities and a seat at the UN with veto powers!   No matter how many times the EU says brexit is not the first thing on their agenda , no matter how many times they spew it, behind the scenes a total different story, this is huge. 

 

Now iv forgot what my point was...I'm in hua hin st some water park on my umpteenth Chang so soz for chatting shi## e. 

It's ok, it makes more sense than the remainers argument.

[melvinmelvin]

24 minutes ago, vogie said:

Come on grouse, get real, you know as well as I, most are economic migrants as you have stated in many of your posts, but it just doesn't fit your agenda at the moment. 

 

you may be right in what you are saying,

but I don't think it really makes much difference

 

masses, and now we talk really big masses, of people on the road to avoid bullets or to enhance their income stream is

a very major challenge

 

[beautifulthailand99]

I detest Blair nearly as much as I detest Brexit but he might be on to something here about coming back in but with immigration controls in place and such a deal it is said would be supported by up to 70% of the electorate. Shame is he is so toxic that it would be need to be brokered by somebody else. Vince Cable is a good guy. There could easily be a parliamentary majority around a sensible, pragmatic approach and the Eu are ready to parly. What needs to happen though is the little Englander headbangers need to be exposed for the frauds that they are and isolated from the developing consensus of there could be a good deal which is better than no deal or a bad deal.

 

Corbyn and the Scots /Welsh recent meetings with Barnier will have made some good inroads into that. The NAO head speaking out sounds like the Civil Service who will be at the forefront of building all this at an operational level are starting to be emboldened and they are savvy folk who are remainers to their very core and they may well input into to this national conversation. The election has been key in allowing a dialogue to begin that could shape and modify the Hard Brexit nut jobs.

 

We are not Remoaners we are the Resistance and the majority and we will not lie down and die.

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Come on grouse, get real, you know as well as I, most are economic migrants as you have stated in many of your posts, but it just doesn't fit your agenda at the moment. 

Also worth mentioning, many of those economic migrants in Germany, would have been eligible to enter the UK, in a couple of years time. Thank god for Brexit.

[beautifulthailand99]

From another forum that I frequent...the Civil Service at some point will rebel, it's already starting tbh - it's like the General's insisting that troops go over the top in the Somme. And politicians with no army means no war.

 

I posted earlier in the thread about my contact in Weights and Measures and about how they all had the most bizarre meeting with David Davies. Well the update is that a further meeting ensued with his department where they were still pitching the idea of going back to fluid ounces. It had to be carefully explained to them that every petrol pump in the country (as well as many sets of scales) would have all have to replaced or modified. This is all possible but the cost to business would be massive. This is the point everything changed, apparently the mantra coming down from on high is that Brexit should cost business nothing.

There is now a patch up deal going with Dublin to see if we can borrow their weights and measures for a bit. Dublin used to have the same deal with Teddington some years back. Oh how things progress on the good ship May, as every day goes past they are realising just what a mess they've got themselves into.

Edited July 15, 2017 by beautifulthailand99

[beautifulthailand99]

https://order-order.com/2017/07/14/times-journalist-claims-brexit-will-put-price-prostitutes/