May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

You have never been to York, you have never been to the Lake District, I am betting you have not seen much of your country of birth, yet you have the gall to call the country that gave you a start in life "a grotty hole" it says so much about you, you don't sound totally thick, so your 'country' must have gave you a good education for you to have acheived so much in life. You should be ashamed of yourself and the people that gave you 'likes' should be ashamed too. The UK is better off without people like you!

No it didn't. I studied further on my own money in Germany, to get out of the workshop ( I was a tool maker) and into the office. In those days Germany was short of skilled people in all sectors. I met through my net working the son of the owner of an industrial air conditioning firm, I met his father who told me I could learn designing air con units and factory layouts on the job with a skilled engineer, he gave me 6 months to be proficient in this and to speak fluent German (my German then,self taught, wasn't too good) or I was out. So I got myself a German girlfriend and lived with her while studying in the evenings. After this experience I saved money and studied full time and got a job at BMW ( at first as a tool maker) in the design office, all my own effort. As far as the UK was concerned I was a blue collar worker who shouldn't get above his God given station. Germany didn't care, they wanted people who could do the job, if you were a Turk or an Iranian, an Indian or an African that didn't matter, show willing and have knowledge, be willing to learn. 

As for not seeing much of the UK you are right,in those days before the EU you had two weeks summer holidays, no extra holiday money and with those wages you couldn't jump about much. My first wage as an apprentice was one pound a week and I wasn't living at home. As a skilled tool maker I was earning 27 pounds a week with overtime that was before deductions, so no I wasn't keen on the UK.

[lungbing]

One pound a week?  How old are you?  I started work in 1967 and got 7.50 a week.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Flustered said:

I see how many people think this way which is a bit sad.

 

The unification of Europe under EU terms is not a lot different to the unification of Europe through war.

 

Some people like to be subjugated but others prefer freedom.

 

The UK has chosen freedom as it has dome over the centuries in Europe. Without the UK taking the stance it did, Europe would either be a French or German state.

 

 

Hardly subjugated if one can leave! 

 

And I shocked that you, with military credentials, could utter such tosh. The Soviets would have overrun Western Europe as you well know. 

 

Do you feel subjugated in all the clubs to which you are a member?

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Is this an interrogation ? 7 although they weren't what you would call picturesque places with the exception of Bournemouth which I found quite nice but I didn't live there long, the worst place was undoubtedly Enfield followed by Dagenham. I would have liked to have visited York and the Lake District but never got round to it, The Lake District is only if you needn't work for a living. I also liked Cornwall but never lived there (the locals told me it was awful in winter, dead )

 I'm not saying that there aren't nice places to live in the UK, I just haven't been there and can only speak about my own experiences, I had to go where the work was, in the UK and on the continent, the continent was better from my point of view as to how one was treated as a working person and the living standards were better which meant ones free time was better spent, in England I would go swimming in the sea, walking in the downs, sometimes pony riding in Wales. In Germany I did a lot of skiing, ( I didn't live too far from the alps) once skiing at night with lamps with friends down from the mountain and through a forest directly into an almost magically light up small town,most memorable, swimming,sailing and canoeing on mountain lakes with the alps as a magnificent backdrop and of course the beer gardens with good food, beer and music, no fights, no rowdy behaviour. The Markets were also an entertaining visit.very clean but lively with street musicians, street cafes and small beer gardens and very easy to get into a conversation with the locals.

 The Germans actual like the British. For me it was all about atmosphere, I found Bavaria,even the Ruhr, Austria and Switzerland brilliant places to be. 

Spot on and I fully agree your sentiments

 

"no rowdy behaviour." Try explain that to the average Brit! We are still being an embarrassment in the South of Spain today!

[goldenbrwn1]

Turned into a Brit bashing thread......by fellow Brits....you couldn't make this s##t up.  This is the exact same kind of thing happening in the UK ..God help us all.

Edited July 19, 2017 by goldenbrwn1

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

You have never been to York, you have never been to the Lake District, I am betting you have not seen much of your country of birth, yet you have the gall to call the country that gave you a start in life "a grotty hole" it says so much about you, you don't sound totally thick, so your 'country' must have gave you a good education for you to have acheived so much in life. You should be ashamed of yourself and the people that gave you 'likes' should be ashamed too. The UK is better off without people like you!

"you don't sound totally thick, so your 'country' must have gave you a good education"

 

Splendid!

[Flustered]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

You have never been to York, you have never been to the Lake District, I am betting you have not seen much of your country of birth, yet you have the gall to call the country that gave you a start in life "a grotty hole" it says so much about you, you don't sound totally thick, so your 'country' must have gave you a good education for you to have acheived so much in life. You should be ashamed of yourself and the people that gave you 'likes' should be ashamed too. The UK is better off without people like you!

It's easy to run down somewhere you have never been and have no intention of going to. They do not call it Gods own county for nothing but he would not know never having been.

 

 

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

You misinterpreted being at home with a British Passport, perhaps my writing skills weren't up to it, being at home in Europe with a British passport, made possible because we are in the EU. I consider escape appropriate it took a lot of planning and net working, I hitched around Europe at 22 for a year, working here and there especially in German firms, I returned to the UK for three or four years while still keeping contact with Germans that I had met, saving money with the object of running. I managed to get a job almost immediately upon arriving in Germany.

I get the basic pension 39 pounds something a week, how that was worked out precisely I don't know, I stayed an extra year at school so I started my apprenticeship with 17 not 16, it was a long time ago, I think that year counted towards my pension, it was certainly considered as 'time' when the German authorities worked out my German pension ( they requested and received my working time in the UK from DWP) when they considered my application for early retirement (minimum of 35 years worked,which I easily fulfilled)

I still do not see how you receive a UK state pension with only a few years contributions.The current rules are you need 10 years contributions but maybe it was different in the dark ages.

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

"you don't sound totally thick, so your 'country' must have gave you a good education"

 

Splendid!

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, lungbing said:

One pound a week?  How old are you?  I started work in 1967 and got 7.50 a week.

Was that an apprenticeship ?

[melvinmelvin]

34 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Turned into a Brit bashing thread......by fellow Brits....you couldn't make this s##t up.  This is the exact same kind of thing happening in the UK ..God help us all.

 

yes,

and considering this unsolicited aggr. behaviour it might be beneficial to the rest of Europe if brexit took

place asap and the borders closed, preventing such agr.ness to flow into continental Europe

 

[mommysboy]

Today's bad news story is a change in the pension scheme that will mean some middle aged people will now need to work until they are 68.  Wow!  At its most extreme then some poor souls will be doing 52 years!

 

But in the interests of positivity and balance- and especially for Brexiteers, isn't it good news that a pet gerbil in Runcorn has been freed after getting stuck on it's wheel?

 

 

[goldenbrwn1]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Today's bad news story is a change in the pension scheme that will mean some middle aged people will now need to work until they are 68.  Wow!  At its most extreme then some poor souls will be doing 52 years!

 

But in the interests of positivity and balance- and especially for Brexiteers, isn't it good news that a pet gerbil in Runcorn has been freed after getting stuck on it's wheel?

 

 

That's better ? Balance it out with humour. ? 

[vogie]

17 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Today's bad news story is a change in the pension scheme that will mean some middle aged people will now need to work until they are 68.  Wow!  At its most extreme then some poor souls will be doing 52 years!

 

But in the interests of positivity and balance- and especially for Brexiteers, isn't it good news that a pet gerbil in Runcorn has been freed after getting stuck on it's wheel?

 

 

Just for clarity, are you blaming this on brexit, the pension bit, not gerbil?

[mommysboy]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-david-davis-free-trade-migration-labour-laws-low-taxes-a7845421.html

 

Is this not the stark truth whether there is Brexit, or not?  I fear so.

 

"Surviving hard Brexit will require sacrifices not seen since the Second World War

In reality the only sensible way to make the UK a success is by another dose of full-on free market economics. In the short term that means unemployment; depressed wages because of more, not less migration; scrapping the living wage; no increase in public sector pay and tax breaks for corporations."

 

 

 

[mommysboy]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Just for clarity, are you blaming this on brexit, the pension bit, not gerbil?

No. I am beginning to think the Brexit issue is nothing but a side-show anyway.  Our problems are much more profound than this.  The economy was moribund before Brexit became an issue, and only grew by way of debt anyway.  What we are seeing is an economy that has been thoroughly maxed out imo, and only a very hardchange can kick start it again.  In this respect Brexiteers have a point imo.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2017 by mommysboy

[soalbundy]

12 minutes ago, Flustered said:

It's easy to run down somewhere you have never been and have no intention of going to. They do not call it Gods own county for nothing but he would not know never having been.

 

 

I still do not see how you receive a UK state pension with only a few years contributions.The current rules are you need 10 years contributions but maybe it was different in the dark ages.

I think if you take into consideration that the 1 year extra schooling was considered as 'time served, a 5 year apprenticeship and 4 years work afterwards you get to 10 years. I didn't consider the British pension as worth applying for myself, I received forms to fill out from the DWP in Thailand, how they knew my address I can only guess, through the German state pension people I presume, the EU connection,.I had been receiving a German pension and a top up from my German firm to bring my earnings to 90% of my last salary until I was 60 for years.  A few months before my 65th birthday I got post from the DWP explaining that I was entitled to a pension. It was written for a 5 year old, ''Why are you receiving this letter, you are receiving this letter because our records show......'' Anyway, I filled out the forms and sent them off, in fact I wrote at the bottom of the form that I didn't think I was entitled to a British pension but as they had taken the trouble to write to me I had filled out the forms. I received a letter that I would receive the minimum pension of.....

Off topic perhaps but what amazed me was that several years later the DWP rang me up on my Thai pre-paid mobile asking some question about my address, I asked how the lady knew my Thai mobile number,the Germans didn't have it and I had never written it down on any British forms. "I cant tell you that, it's in your file''. Ouch! real big brother.

[Flustered]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

No. I am beginning to think the Brexit issue is nothing but a side-show anyway.  Our problems are much more profound than this.  The economy was moribund before Brexit became an issue, and only grew by way of debt anyway.  What we are seeing is an economy that has been thoroughly maxed out imo.

 

 

You are nearer the truth than you realise.

 

The whole capitalistic world is near collapse as economies in countries are maxed out.

 

By 2030, (only 13 years away) best estimates are that over 50% of council tax will be going to pay council pensions. Pensions are but the tip of the iceberg. While debt, social benefits and pensions are paid out of tax receipts an ageing population can only make matters worse. You do not have to be a prize winner in maths or economics to extrapolate the debt curve.

 

Just take Corbyn's bribe to students of free tuition. He would have to borrow to pay for it and they would be the ones in the years to come paying off the interest but not the capital on the loan. Debt will only go up, never down so wait for the Big Bang in about 30 years time. Hey, no problems, I will be pushing up daisies by then.

[soalbundy]

Just now, Flustered said:

You are nearer the truth than you realise.

 

The whole capitalistic world is near collapse as economies in countries are maxed out.

 

By 2030, (only 13 years away) best estimates are that over 50% of council tax will be going to pay council pensions. Pensions are but the tip of the iceberg. While debt, social benefits and pensions are paid out of tax receipts an ageing population can only make matters worse. You do not have to be a prize winner in maths or economics to extrapolate the debt curve.

 

Just take Corbyn's bribe to students of free tuition. He would have to borrow to pay for it and they would be the ones in the years to come paying off the interest but not the capital on the loan. Debt will only go up, never down so wait for the Big Bang in about 30 years time. Hey, no problems, I will be pushing up daisies by then.

Which is why some European countries rely on immigration, young workers who pay taxes and put money into the pension pot, remember the money you pay in is not for YOUR pension,it is to support the old aged of the last generation (that is the way it works in Germany, but I think it is the same in the UK) it's called the generation contract, of course if fewer and fewer people have children it wont work, not enough workers to pay for the old so where can this gap be filled, immigration, it is the only viable answer and if people cry out our culture (watch out love island and big brother) is being destroyed then go back to basics and have children ( a little thing about affordability there) I have made two,one in Germany and one here and look after two step daughters and a step grandchild, no its not easy, you have to give up on things, I don't go on holidays anymore, my car is 12 years old but it is worth it in many other ways on an emotional level.

[Flustered]

Immigration is only making matters worse, not better. It is a viscous circle.

 

The more people you bring in, the more children they have, the more money is needed to support all of these people in local services such as schooling and health so more tax has to be raised and more money has to be borrowed. Then as they grow old, more money is required for pensions and health.

 

The cycle never ends with a growing population, it is false economics. The population needs reducing so that the cost of services goes down not up. It really is that simple.

[nontabury]

41 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-david-davis-free-trade-migration-labour-laws-low-taxes-a7845421.html

 

Is this not the stark truth whether there is Brexit, or not?  I fear so.

 

"Surviving hard Brexit will require sacrifices not seen since the Second World War

In reality the only sensible way to make the UK a success is by another dose of full-on free market economics. In the short term that means unemployment; depressed wages because of more, not less migration; scrapping the living wage; no increase in public sector pay and tax breaks for corporations."

 

 

 

You forgot- the value of UK houses would reduce by 40%. And that the  Black Death would once again reappear in the UK, just one week after we finally depart this so-called Union.

[soalbundy]

Just now, Flustered said:

Immigration is only making matters worse, not better. It is a viscous circle.

 

The more people you bring in, the more children they have, the more money is needed to support all of these people in local services such as schooling and health so more tax has to be raised and more money has to be borrowed. Then as they grow old, more money is required for pensions and health.

 

The cycle never ends with a growing population, it is false economics. The population needs reducing so that the cost of services goes down not up. It really is that simple.

A growing population feeds itself, more children means more clothes production,more toys, more food,more entertainment,more housing therefore more construction and as they get older, more cars,more transport, more factories, it worked well in Germany with the Turks who at the level of the third generation are well integrated, many speak only broken Turkish and have never even been to Turkey, they are to all intent and purpose German. A few years ago a national prize was given for the best German recitation in a nation wide school competition, a Turkish girl won. If you took all the foreigners out of Germany the industry would collapse as would the pension funds and the state. If you are fair and even handed with immigrants you don't have a land full of foreigners, after a few years you have a land full of new Brits, new Frenchman or new Germans, I know that from my own experience, I have a British passport but emotionally I am German, I have come to love the country that accepted me and gave me a chance so my loyalty belongs to them,with all their faults and as all nations they have quite a few.

[soalbundy]

18 minutes ago, nontabury said:

You forgot- the value of UK houses would reduce by 40%. And that the  Black Death would once again reappear in the UK, just one week after we finally depart this so-called Union.

If the black death came many Brits would think that their luck had changed for the better

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

You have never been to York, you have never been to the Lake District, I am betting you have not seen much of your country of birth, yet you have the gall to call the country that gave you a start in life "a grotty hole" it says so much about you, you don't sound totally thick, so your 'country' must have gave you a good education for you to have acheived so much in life. You should be ashamed of yourself and the people that gave you 'likes' should be ashamed too. The UK is better off without people like you!

Nice to see that the Lake District was made a UNESCO World Heritage Site this year, first UK national park area to get the award. Fresh air escape from the pompous guys.

[Flustered]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

A growing population feeds itself, more children means more clothes production,more toys, more food,more entertainment,more housing therefore more construction and as they get older, more cars,more transport, more factories, 

Wake up. There is a finite amount of land to build on and a finite amount of food that can be grown to feed people.

 

A growing population is a recipe for disaster. If you cannot see that this is the problem, then you are part of the problem. 

 

It's like one of our Omanie technicians used to say when asked who would provide for his wife an 14 children. Answer was of course "Allah will provide".

 

The world has too many people in it, we need a new black plague or some disaster to reduce this. Even China has realised that it has grown too big.

[SheungWan]

30 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Immigration is only making matters worse, not better. It is a viscous circle.

 

The more people you bring in, the more children they have, the more money is needed to support all of these people in local services such as schooling and health so more tax has to be raised and more money has to be borrowed. Then as they grow old, more money is required for pensions and health.

 

The cycle never ends with a growing population, it is false economics. The population needs reducing so that the cost of services goes down not up. It really is that simple.

It is a viscous circle: A thick and sticky analysis! Malthusian economics at its very best.

[Flustered]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Nice to see that the Lake District was made a UNESCO World Heritage Site this year, first UK national park area to get the award. Fresh air escape from the pompous guys.

You have forgotten the City of Culture's Humber Bridge as a Grade 1 listed building.

[Flustered]

Just now, SheungWan said:

It is a viscous circle: A thick and sticky analysis! Malthusian economics at its very best.

Picky, picky. I am taking a little drop of Spanish Vino Collapso while I am typing. I managed to steal it from the kitchen while the wife is slaving away.

[soalbundy]

Just now, SheungWan said:

Nice to see that the Lake District was made a UNESCO World Heritage Site this year, first UK national park area to get the award. Fresh air escape from the pompous guys.

I have seen many pictures, it is beautiful and deserves protection, I have also seen many pictures of small towns and villages in the 1920's and compared them with today's condition, as one commentator wrote "What have you stolen from us'' Tscha! can't stop progress even if it kills you.

[SheungWan]

2 minutes ago, Flustered said:

You have forgotten the City of Culture's Humber Bridge as a Grade 1 listed building.

Indeed I have. And also Liverpool's award as European Capital Of Culture in 2008. Liverpool was where I was introduced to Chinese run fish and chip shops.

[SheungWan]

16 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

If the black death came many Brits would think that their luck had changed for the better

I doubt it as the population loss estimated to have been 35-40%