May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[billd766]

7 hours ago, sandyf said:

That is not quite the case Bill. 

At this point in time the border between NI and the Republic is a border between 2 EU member states and incorporated in the CTA.

On 29th March 2019, that border will come under the jurisdiction of Frontex, the EU Border Agency. The EU have every right to voice an opinion on how that border should be controlled.

It should be borne in mind that external borders are in fact 2 borders alongside each other with each being under the jurisdiction of the respective country. Also for each border there are separate issues in respect of people and goods.

 

That is correct as far as Eire is concerned as it is a bona fide country and a part of the EU. It is a net gainer from the EU AFAIK it gets money etc from the EU but is a negative contributor.

 

However N Ireland is still a part of the UK and for the next several years until Brexit is complete and the UK finally leaves the EU (or not) the EU has a voice there. After Brexit, it doesn't, no matter what bluster the EU put on it.

 

IMHO THEY are the ones dragging the negotiations down and not the UK.

[aright]

6 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Not sure about that lurid shirt.

I agree it's a bit more Pattaya  than London

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

That is correct as far as Eire is concerned as it is a bona fide country and a part of the EU. It is a net gainer from the EU AFAIK it gets money etc from the EU but is a negative contributor.

 

However N Ireland is still a part of the UK and for the next several years until Brexit is complete and the UK finally leaves the EU (or not) the EU has a voice there. After Brexit, it doesn't, no matter what bluster the EU put on it.

 

IMHO THEY are the ones dragging the negotiations down and not the UK.

The EU are the laggards. They are not intending to negotiate at all. Typical and as good a reason as any to leave.

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, aright said:

I agree it's a bit more Pattaya  than London

Flame tree  Delonix regia

 

Edited September 29, 2017 by nauseus

[aright]

He's certainly not cool and normal like me

 

 

 

[Grouse]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/18/vince-cable-likens-theresa-may-to-headteacher-barricaded-in-her-office

 

Vince is spot on target!

 

Acerbic wit at its best ?

[aright]

32 minutes ago, Grouse said:

We do the wings because we had to have a share and the wings are the most difficult bit.

 

In a truely open market, next plant should be in N America.

 

Boeing? Ha! Driven an American car? My wheelbarrow handles better ?

I will take a blonde in a Mustang any day over your preferred blonde in a wheel barrow I don't care how it drives.

Psst.  Don't the handles get in the way? 

[aright]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Vince is spot on target!

 

Acerbic wit at its best ?

For a party that got 7% of the vote in the general Election............Priceless

 

“I think there is an appetite in the country for moderate, common sense, middle-of-the-road politics, and that’s the kind of thing the Liberal Democrats represent.”

[Grouse]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/27/brexit-corbyn-hard-right-progressive-labour-europe

 

Essential reading

6 minutes ago, aright said:

I will take a blonde in a Mustang any day over your preferred blonde in a wheel barrow I don't care how it drives.

Psst.  Don't the handles get in the way? 

I've always found blondes' handles well placed in all seasons 

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, aright said:

For a party that got 7% of the vote in the general Election............Priceless

 

“I think there is an appetite in the country for moderate, common sense, middle-of-the-road politics, and that’s the kind of thing the Liberal Democrats represent.”

Did you read up on coalitions and how to get one?

[aright]

Just now, Grouse said:

Did you read up on coalitions and how to get one?

I am quite happy with what I have got but I did the research and gave you 9 options. I am waiting for you to choose one so I can show you how misguided you are.

Please don't choose "The Church of What's Happening Now"

[aright]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

Did you read up on coalitions and how to get one?

Did you read my comparisons on voter outcomes.

My analysis compared the way the people voted not the number of seats parties would have in Parliament.

 

[melvinmelvin]

 

An article (Bloomberg based) re Brexit in today's Bangkok Post.

Worth a read.

 

The capabilities of D Davis to handle the negotiations are questioned.

Trade talks seems far away, still.

BJ's open opposition to the PM is mentioned.

Claims that D Davis and BJ are the two most frequently mentioned as replacement for May.

 

Have seen more effective governments/cabinets around.

 

Enjoy your Saturday.

 

 

[nontabury]

58 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

An article (Bloomberg based) re Brexit in today's Bangkok Post.

Worth a read.

 

The capabilities of D Davis to handle the negotiations are questioned.

Trade talks seems far away, still.

BJ's open opposition to the PM is mentioned.

Claims that D Davis and BJ are the two most frequently mentioned as replacement for May.

 

Have seen more effective governments/cabinets around.

 

Enjoy your Saturday.

 

 

I've read many articles in the B.P regarding Brexit. Everyone by establishment contributors who are anti Brexit. Therefore I regard the B.P as completely biased.

 

[sandyf]

12 hours ago, Grouse said:

We do the wings because we had to have a share and the wings are the most difficult bit.

 

In a truely open market, next plant should be in N America.

 

Boeing? Ha! Driven an American car? My wheelbarrow handles better ?

Its the thin end of the wedge, or should I say wing.

 

Britain’s position weakened during the shift from aluminium to lighter composite materials. While UK companies designed and manufactured virtually the entire wing for Airbus’s superjumbo, the A380, the top and bottom skins of the wing for the newer A350 went to Spain and Germany, both keen to accelerate development of their aerospace sectors. 

“There is a constant move by Germany to get as much wing work out of the UK because it is the most valuable,” says the aerospace executive. “There will be countries looking at the UK’s position as the world’s second-largest aerospace sector and thinking that if it wasn’t [in the EU] this could actually benefit them.”

https://www.ft.com/content/77e6e934-c571-11e6-8f29-9445cac8966f

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, aright said:

No problem.  You obviously have no firm evidence

The UK has already lost part of the A350 to Germany and Spain. Of course that couldn't be seen as a decline in UK participation, I suppose more of a negative incline.

[Grouse]

59 minutes ago, nontabury said:

I've read many articles in the B.P regarding Brexit. Everyone by establishment contributors who are anti Brexit. Therefore I regard the B.P as completely biased.

 

Everybody is anti Brexit now

[RuamRudy]

24 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Everybody is anti Brexit now

What, even those with undeniably cast-iron reasons for wanting to leave???

[nauseus]

42 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Everybody is anti Brexit now

If they were we wouldn't be on p676!

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

An article (Bloomberg based) re Brexit in today's Bangkok Post.

Worth a read.

 

The capabilities of D Davis to handle the negotiations are questioned.

Trade talks seems far away, still.

BJ's open opposition to the PM is mentioned.

Claims that D Davis and BJ are the two most frequently mentioned as replacement for May.

 

Have seen more effective governments/cabinets around.

 

Enjoy your Saturday.

 

 

At this point in time it seems increasingly unlikely that genuine negotiations are going to happen in the near future - if at all.

 

May has already tried to 'drag things out' for a further two years, and offered a large sum of money - without any substantiation as to how this was calculated....  Immediately rejected by 'important' people in the EU!

 

Sadly, it becomes ever more obvious that the EU has no intention of negotiating - far less reforming the most disliked aspects - so the 'best way forward' depends on ones' POV.  But in view of the EU's intransigence, surely there's no alternative to planning to leave in 2020 (i.e. in line with the latest EU budget plans)?

Edited September 30, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[sandyf]

38 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

At this point in time it seems increasingly unlikely that genuine negotiations are going to happen in the near future - if at all.

 

May has already tried to 'drag things out' for a further two years, and offered a large sum of money - without any substantiation as to how this was calculated....  Immediately rejected by 'important' people in the EU!

 

Sadly, it becomes ever more obvious that the EU has no intention of negotiating - far less reforming the most disliked aspects - so the 'best way forward' depends on ones' POV.  But in view of the EU's intransigence, surely there's no alternative to planning to leave in 2020 (i.e. in line with the latest EU budget plans)?

If you are not happy with your terms of employment, do you hand in your notice and then expect to negotiate a better deal with your employer.

 

The UK has asked to leave the EU and the remaining 27 members have formulated an exit strategy to which they all agreed. Whether you like it or not the EU administration have a responsibility to protect the interests of those 27 member states and have little interest in the problems faced by the UK government. 

It was a fundamental mistake to use the term 'Brexit negotiations ' when in fact it is really a case of the EU telling the UK the conditions that must be met to avoid an acrimonious parting of the ways.

[SheungWan]

57 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

At this point in time it seems increasingly unlikely that genuine negotiations are going to happen in the near future - if at all.

 

May has already tried to 'drag things out' for a further two years, and offered a large sum of money - without any substantiation as to how this was calculated....  Immediately rejected by 'important' people in the EU!

 

Sadly, it becomes ever more obvious that the EU has no intention of negotiating - far less reforming the most disliked aspects - so the 'best way forward' depends on ones' POV.  But in view of the EU's intransigence, surely there's no alternative to planning to leave in 2020 (i.e. in line with the latest EU budget plans)?

Some people seem to live on a parallel planet of their own imagination.

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

What, even those with undeniably cast-iron reasons for wanting to leave???

I miss the bayonets, the screw-ins we still get with the new bulbs.

Edited September 30, 2017 by SheungWan

[dick dasterdly]

53 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

At this point in time it seems increasingly unlikely that genuine negotiations are going to happen in the near future - if at all.

 

May has already tried to 'drag things out' for a further two years, and offered a large sum of money - without any substantiation as to how this was calculated....  Immediately rejected by 'important' people in the EU!

 

Sadly, it becomes ever more obvious that the EU has no intention of negotiating - far less reforming the most disliked aspects - so the 'best way forward' depends on ones' POV.  But in view of the EU's intransigence, surely there's no alternative to planning to leave in 2020 (i.e. in line with the latest EU budget plans)?

 

Just now, sandyf said:

If you are not happy with your terms of employment, do you hand in your notice and then expect to negotiate a better deal with your employer.

 

The UK has asked to leave the EU and the remaining 27 members have formulated an exit strategy to which they all agreed. Whether you like it or not the EU administration have a responsibility to protect the interests of those 27 member states and have little interest in the problems faced by the UK government. 

It was a fundamental mistake to use the term 'Brexit negotiations ' when in fact it is really a case of the EU telling the UK the conditions that must be met to avoid an acrimonious parting of the ways.

"It was a fundamental mistake to use the term 'Brexit negotiations ' when in fact it is really a case of the EU telling the UK the conditions that must be met"

 

Which brings me back to "But in view of the EU's intransigence, surely there's no alternative to planning to leave in 2020 (i.e. in line with the latest EU budget plans)?"

[SheungWan]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

"It was a fundamental mistake to use the term 'Brexit negotiations ' when in fact it is really a case of the EU telling the UK the conditions that must be met"

 

Which brings me back to "But in view of the EU's intransigence, surely there's no alternative to planning to leave in 2020 (i.e. in line with the latest EU budget plans)?"

Intransigence is your spin. TINA is your spin on the spin.

[sandyf]

15 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

"It was a fundamental mistake to use the term 'Brexit negotiations ' when in fact it is really a case of the EU telling the UK the conditions that must be met"

 

Which brings me back to "But in view of the EU's intransigence, surely there's no alternative to planning to leave in 2020 (i.e. in line with the latest EU budget plans)?"

Not sure what you are getting at, the EU treaties will cease to apply to the UK on March 29th 2019.

There has only been a proposal for a transitional period, half in - half out. There has been no suggestion whatsoever of any extension to Article 50 and the treaties.

You seem to take the view that following a plan agreed by the heads of state constitutes intransigence, well its each to their own opinion. Following the Lancaster House speech TM said she had a plan and would be sticking to it, that must have been a flexiplan.

 

BTW. you shouldn't truncate quotes in an attempt to change the context. 

Edited September 30, 2017 by sandyf

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, sandyf said:

If you are not happy with your terms of employment, do you hand in your notice and then expect to negotiate a better deal with your employer.

 

The UK has asked to leave the EU and the remaining 27 members have formulated an exit strategy to which they all agreed. Whether you like it or not the EU administration have a responsibility to protect the interests of those 27 member states and have little interest in the problems faced by the UK government. 

It was a fundamental mistake to use the term 'Brexit negotiations ' when in fact it is really a case of the EU telling the UK the conditions that must be met to avoid an acrimonious parting of the ways.

'Negotiations' are mentioned in Article 50, it doesn't matter what you call them and using the term 'Brexit negotiations' makes no difference. How on earth can this be a 'fundamental' mistake?? Dramatics again I suppose.

 

Article 50 makes no mention of 'conditions' but these have been set by the EU anyway, so that practical successful  negotiations are virtually impossible for Britain. 'Strategy' will have been 'formulated' by Juncker and the Commission and just approved by the Council. So, a poor chance of eventual agreement unless the UK submits to the majority of the EU 'conditions', which they know is impossible unless the general referendum question is ignored.

 

Typical EU bullying tactics - they are showing their true colours more and more now -  it's time to get out of Dodgy City.       

[dick dasterdly]

40 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Not sure what you are getting at, the EU treaties will cease to apply to the UK on March 29th 2019.

There has only been a proposal for a transitional period, half in - half out. There has been no suggestion whatsoever of any extension to Article 50 and the treaties.

You seem to take the view that following a plan agreed by the heads of state constitutes intransigence, well its each to their own opinion. Following the Lancaster House speech TM said she had a plan and would be sticking to it, that must have been a flexiplan.

 

BTW. you shouldn't truncate quotes in an attempt to change the context. 

"BTW. you shouldn't truncate quotes in an attempt to change the context."

 

I quoted the entire post, and then repeated/put in italics and quotation marks the part of the post to which I was responding - as advised by a Mod when I received a 'holiday' for quoting an entire post, but emboldening the part of the post to which I was replying.

 

Presumably you was responsible for my 'holiday' (even though I'd just emboldened part of an entire quoted post, and even said "my emboldening".....)

 

How exactly would you personally prefer me to reply to one part of a post?.....

Edited September 30, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[SheungWan]

28 minutes ago, nauseus said:

'Negotiations' are mentioned in Article 50, it doesn't matter what you call them and using the term 'Brexit negotiations' makes no difference. How on earth can this be a 'fundamental' mistake?? Dramatics again I suppose.

 

Article 50 makes no mention of 'conditions' but these have been set by the EU anyway, so that practical successful  negotiations are virtually impossible for Britain. 'Strategy' will have been 'formulated' by Juncker and the Commission and just approved by the Council. So, a poor chance of eventual agreement unless the UK submits to the majority of the EU 'conditions', which they know is impossible unless the general referendum question is ignored.

 

Typical EU bullying tactics - they are showing their true colours more and more now -  it's time to get out of Dodgy City.       

Talk about 'dramatics' !

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"BTW. you shouldn't truncate quotes in an attempt to change the context."

 

I quoted the entire post, and then repeated/put in italics and quotation marks the part of the post to which I was responding - as advised by a Mod when I received a 'holiday' for quoting an entire post, but emboldening the part of the post to which I was replying.

 

Presumably you was responsible for my 'holiday' (even though I'd just emboldened part of an entire quoted post, and even said "my emboldening".....)

 

How exactly would you personally prefer me to reply to one part of a post?.....

I apologise for repeating my own post - but I'm quite bad-tempered at some of the tactics used by the 'odd' person with a different opinion to get another (generally civil poster) a holiday.