May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, aright said:

Why the triumphalism?

For 784 pages you have been telling us about the importance of staying in Europe.

Nothing that happened yesterday stops Brexit. We are still leaving the EU.

Nothing that happened yesterday undermines the PM's basic process position although it does result in a loss of face when she goes to Brussels today. If weakening the UK's negotiation position and her authority brings a smile to your face .......so be it.

All that happened yesterday was a guarantee that the deal; be negotiated in good time so it can be scrutinised  and passed by the House of Commons. Reminder!  The amendment to the Bill was not passed yesterday ,it can still be amended during the later stages of it's passage through Parliament. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

 

 

 relief more than triumphalism. Common sense will prevail. The difference between the status quo ante and the new deal will be minimal (except with fewer benefits and a huge price tag). We Remainers should be bloody angry frankly. But.... time for another large Grouse!  

[vogie]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I'd love to see the Establishment's reaction to PM Corbyn. Unfortunately he's as weak on Brexit as May!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yeah but in Labours defence, if Dianne Abbott got hold of the purse strings I believe the EU settlement would be a 3 figure sum.

[aright]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

 relief more than triumphalism. Common sense will prevail. The difference between the status quo ante and the new deal will be minimal (except with fewer benefits and a huge price tag). We Remainers should be bloody angry frankly. But.... time for another large Grouse!  

I think Brexiteers should be angry.

Yesterdays vote was unnecessary . The government had already agreed a definitive vote on the leave deal  in both  Houses.

The attitude of Remainers and the Conservative rebels,  as a result of what happened yesterday, resulted as I have already said, in a  weakened  UK negotiation position and questioned Mrs May's authority.

Can you tell us how you feel this serves the national interest. 

 

[aright]

Tory rebels have made "no deal" Brexit more likely EU warn.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/14/tory-rebels-have-made-no-deal-brexit-likely-eu-leaders-warn/

[Khun Han]

6 hours ago, aright said:

I think Brexiteers should be angry.

Yesterdays vote was unnecessary . The government had already agreed a definitive vote on the leave deal  in both  Houses.

The attitude of Remainers and the Conservative rebels,  as a result of what happened yesterday, resulted as I have already said, in a  weakened  UK negotiation position and questioned Mrs May's authority.

Can you tell us how you feel this serves the national interest. 

 

 

It's moving us closer to a Corbyn government, which most definitely doesn't serve the country's interest. It doesn't even serve remain's interest, unless they believe that Project Fear's Labour party 'plant', Keir Starmer, can quickly stage a political coup. But then we would see social division and strife on a scale that would be beyond our worst nightmare.

[talahtnut]

16 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

It's moving us closer to a Corbyn government, which most definitely doesn't serve the country's interest. It doesn't even serve remain's interest, unless they believe that Project Fear's Labour party 'plant', Keir Starmer, can quickly stage a political coup. But then we would see social division and strife on a scale that would be beyond our worst nightmare.

Both Labour and Cons. do not serve the electorate..as someone once said..

   Two cheeks of the same arse.

[oldhippy]

Judging by the comments here, that Skinner character must be world famous in the UK. Like Johnny Halliday in France....

 

I googled him, apparently he said and did some things that I fully agree with - but I don't like him: too much of a loud mouth, not unlike Farage, too full of himself.

 

Small fish in small pond.

 

[oldhippy]

5 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Both Labour and Cons. do not serve the electorate..as someone once said..

   Two cheeks of the same arse.

And your alternative is?

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, aright said:

I think Brexiteers should be angry.

Yesterdays vote was unnecessary . The government had already agreed a definitive vote on the leave deal  in both  Houses.

The attitude of Remainers and the Conservative rebels,  as a result of what happened yesterday, resulted as I have already said, in a  weakened  UK negotiation position and questioned Mrs May's authority.

Can you tell us how you feel this serves the national interest. 

 

It affirms the sovereignty of parliament. I trust the British parliament far more than I trust this government. A decision of this importance should be entrusted to parliament. 

[Grouse]

May is STILL not ready for tough talks

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-trade-talks-delay-march-theresa-may-cancel-eu-european-council-brussels-a8111276.html

 

For goodness sake, call the whole thing off. The UK is being turned into a laughing stock by the Cons and the baying Brexiters.

[Orac]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

It's moving us closer to a Corbyn government, which most definitely doesn't serve the country's interest. It doesn't even serve remain's interest, unless they believe that Project Fear's Labour party 'plant', Keir Starmer, can quickly stage a political coup. But then we would see social division and strife on a scale that would be beyond our worst nightmare.

 

Indeed it would be terribly ironic if through the anti-establishment vote and the Corbyn/Skinner/Galloway brexit-type supporters, after a break from the EU because it is not socialist enough, are able to get the mandate they need from an election to form a government - "will of the people"  and all that.

 

The big question would be how long it would take for the far-left to lose its tarnish and the centre ground of politics, both Labour and Conservative, to reassert itself in some form to get us back to the politics of the possible rather than the extremism of the present that cannot provide a solution acceptable to the majority.

[oldhippy]

40 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

Indeed it would be terribly ironic if through the anti-establishment vote and the Corbyn/Skinner/Galloway brexit-type supporters, after a break from the EU because it is not socialist enough, are able to get the mandate they need from an election to form a government - "will of the people"  and all that.

 

The big question would be how long it would take for the far-left to lose its tarnish and the centre ground of politics, both Labour and Conservative, to reassert itself in some form to get us back to the politics of the possible rather than the extremism of the present that cannot provide a solution acceptable to the majority.

You refer to Corbyn as far left? A social democrat? Seriously?

 

I remember the good old days when even Moscou communists would not be called far left.... As a matter of fact, Moscou communists and Mao huggers would call certain others far left.

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

Despite the title of the thread, May is still clearly not ready:

"Eyebrows were raised in Brussels about the future of the trade framework talks earlier this month after Downing Street confirmed that the Cabinet had not actually discussed what trade deal the Government wanted. The Prime Minister’s spokesperson said the discussion would be had before Christmas. 

The Government’s general level of preparedness for the process was also called into question after Brexit Secretary David Davis admitted that 58 government studies into Brexit’s effect on the economy which he previously claimed included “excruciating detail” and repeatedly claimed existed, did not actually exist."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-trade-talks-delay-march-theresa-may-cancel-eu-european-council-brussels-a8111276.html

[talahtnut]

17 hours ago, oldhippy said:

And your alternative is?

Live off grid

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Live off grid

Not a bad idea - do you?

 

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Not a bad idea - do you?

 

In UK, almost there, solar panels, woodburner, grow own veg, ducks give me eggs,

trees give me fruit/nuts, hedges gave me lots of blackberries this year.

[oldhippy]

7 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

In UK, almost there, solar panels, woodburner, grow own veg, ducks give me eggs,

trees give me fruit/nuts, hedges gave me lots of blackberries this year.

I admire you - I try too, but at my age I leave it mostly to the younger generations.

Just tell me, you do not believe that brexit is part of living off grid... it is only a different grid....

 

 

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

You refer to Corbyn as far left? A social democrat? Seriously?

 

I remember the good old days when even Moscou communists would not be called far left.... As a matter of fact, Moscou communists and Mao huggers would call certain others far left.

Pro-Soviet CP supporters in the UK gathered under the banner of the Broad Left and were criticised as reformist. The CP in turn attacked the Trotskyist and Maoist left as ultra-leftists. Corbyn comes from that ultra-left background but these days more populist in presentation at least on UK-based issues. For Brexit, Corbyn does not dare challenge former UKIP-inclined supporters in Labour Party held areas so backs off on Brexit and will under no circumstances go for a second referendum so that issue is dead while Corbyn the leader.

[SheungWan]

12 hours ago, vogie said:

Yeah but in Labours defence, if Dianne Abbott got hold of the purse strings I believe the EU settlement would be a 3 figure sum.

No way DA would be in charge of such other than in the idle minds of Brexiteers who prefer not to think about the real world of David Davis behaving like a chump.

[SheungWan]

30 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

In UK, almost there, solar panels, woodburner, grow own veg, ducks give me eggs,

trees give me fruit/nuts, hedges gave me lots of blackberries this year.

Ducks for Brexit.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Ducks for Brexit.

Have you been reading Tommy Coopers book of jokes again?

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Judging by the comments here, that Skinner character must be world famous in the UK. Like Johnny Halliday in France....

 

I googled him, apparently he said and did some things that I fully agree with - but I don't like him: too much of a loud mouth, not unlike Farage, too full of himself.

 

Small fish in small pond.

 

I take it your not British, otherwise you would surely know who he is,and what he stands for.

 Personally I disagree with him on most things, however he is a man of principle, not like turn coat May.

[ilostmypassword]

I've noticed a curious contradiction in the statements of Brexiters.

On the one hand they state that the EU is in a panic about the loss of the UK's net contribution of about 9 billion euros.

On the other hand, they say that if the UK couldn't come to terms on Brexit, the EU would make sure that it would impose serious alterations on the terms of the UK's renewed membership.

So the EU is so desperate for the UK's money that they're going to make a reversal more unlikely? Really?

[nauseus]

28 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I've noticed a curious contradiction in the statements of Brexiters.

On the one hand they state that the EU is in a panic about the loss of the UK's net contribution of about 9 billion euros.

On the other hand, they say that if the UK couldn't come to terms on Brexit, the EU would make sure that it would impose serious alterations on the terms of the UK's renewed membership.

So the EU is so desperate for the UK's money that they're going to make a reversal more unlikely? Really?

Quite a mouthful. Renewed membership - what are you are munching on?  

[nontabury]

32 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I've noticed a curious contradiction in the statements of Brexiters.

On the one hand they state that the EU is in a panic about the loss of the UK's net contribution of about 9 billion euros.

On the other hand, they say that if the UK couldn't come to terms on Brexit, the EU would make sure that it would impose serious alterations on the terms of the UK's renewed membership.

So the EU is so desperate for the UK's money that they're going to make a reversal more unlikely? Really?

Where does 9 billion come from, I was under the assumption that the figure is 40 billion, with some estimates of nearer 60 billion.

Yet remainer s like you only talk about the money, disregarding the loss of our democratic sovereignty. Preferring that we remain a colony of the Brussels elite.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2017 by nontabury

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

I've noticed a curious contradiction in the statements of Brexiters.

On the one hand they state that the EU is in a panic about the loss of the UK's net contribution of about 9 billion euros.

On the other hand, they say that if the UK couldn't come to terms on Brexit, the EU would make sure that it would impose serious alterations on the terms of the UK's renewed membership.

So the EU is so desperate for the UK's money that they're going to make a reversal more unlikely? Really?

You're missing the point that the vast majority of MPs (not to mention big business) prefer to remain within the EU, and are looking for a way to do so.

 

At the moment I've no idea as to what a parliamentary vote rejecting the eventual 'agreed' deal means.  An immediate decision to leave/a decision to keep negotiating?  Much the same applies to the latest 'agreement' - I've no idea as to what it actually MEANS.  I suspect the remainers are right in their interpretation, but in which case why would they put another spanner in the works that will only heighten voter unhappiness (in leave areas) with their MPs?

 

Perhaps it's in the hope that leave voters will be so frightened at the 'agreed' deal that they'd prefer to remain within the EU?  At which point the EU could magnanimously ride up on its white horse and offer membership on slightly less favourable terms?

Edited December 15, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[talahtnut]

17 hours ago, oldhippy said:

I admire you - I try too, but at my age I leave it mostly to the younger generations.

Just tell me, you do not believe that brexit is part of living off grid... it is only a different grid....

 

 

In or out of EU, not important to me.  I have a free trade agreement with nature.

[talahtnut]

17 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Ducks for Brexit.

Quackers.

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

I take it your not British, otherwise you would surely know who he is,and what he stands for.

 Personally I disagree with him on most things, however he is a man of principle, not like turn coat May.

So then, Theresa May added to the list of Enemies of the People. Let's see whether the other forum Hard Brexiteers fall into line on this one.

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

At the moment I've no idea as to what a parliamentary vote rejecting the eventual 'agreed' deal means.  An immediate decision to leave/a decision to keep negotiating?

It might be that the EU will make the decision - a UK hard Brexit.

Not further waste their time with negotiations that the UK cannot conduct in good faith.