May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[beautifulthailand99]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

For those who voted to leave, the main reason, was to regain our national sovereignty. Just as this man from Barnsley said on BBC question time, listen to him again, he’s speaking for the majority,not on behalf of  the interest of some elitist group.

 

 

If the working class want more power and say in governance theN vote Corbyn - it's that simple. I can guarantee he isn't controlled by the 'elites' . We want 'our' country back  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-latest-poll-remain-ten-points-leave-bmg-a8114406.html

Edited December 16, 2017 by beautifulthailand99

[simoh1490]

8 hours ago, nontabury said:

Unfortunately the British media is not impartial on this subject. As shown by the majority of the media not publicising, the record speed that a petition has been signed by over 100,000 demanding that parliament debates, walking out of article 50, and basically telling the Brussel  Bureaucrats to fxxk off. Thankfully we now have other sources of information, the masses are waking up to this treacherous act. 

Indeed, some British media can be biased on some subjects. Although if a person reads several different versions of the same story, all from reliable mainstream sources, there's generally little difficulty in getting a true picture. The problem comes when people start to read fashionable, cult almost underground journals and believe them to contain the real truth, simply because they contain stories not contained in the broadsheets. It's a bit like reading The Express and learning that aliens have taken over the local Sainsbury's and then wondering why the broadsheets haven't covered that same important news. That fact alone doesn't make the news story a unique and startling revelation, it just means the Express is trying, as always, to appeal to it's natural audience and give them something interesting to tell their mates down the pub.

[simoh1490]

26 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

If the working class want more power and say in governance theN vote Corbyn - it's that simple. I can guarantee he isn't controlled by the 'elites' . We want 'our' country back  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-latest-poll-remain-ten-points-leave-bmg-a8114406.html

Yes, vote Corbyn and watch the UK economy get flushed down the pan, watch the return of super-sized benefits whilst wealth makers and industry departs the UK with the speed of light.

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

One does not serve time for war crimes in The Hague, though it is possible to be sentenced at The Hague for war crimes. 

 

The sentence comes  after a trial and the trial before a proclamation of guilt.

O.K. I knew that, as I think most people do.Just trying to keep my reply short.

 

re your previouse post, a typical comment from a selfish arrogant remoaner. 

Think to yourself,when you see someone not as fortunate as yourself, that there may be many factors involved, in why someone may not be successful in life.

There but for the grace of god.

[simoh1490]

Slowly but surely, the penny is dropping: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-latest-poll-remain-ten-points-leave-bmg-a8114406.html

 

I wonder, if we do have a second poll and we decide to Remain, can Brexiteers be billed for time wasting.

[aright]

Good News!

The UK film and TV industry contributed £7.7 billion to the economy in 2016. 

In the last 5 years its contribution has increased by 80%

 

 

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

Good News!

The UK film and TV industry contributed £7.7 billion to the economy in 2016. 

In the last 5 years its contribution has increased by 80%

 

 

That's excellent news, historical economics fact, see how well the economy can perform under a Conservative government within the EU.

[aright]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Slowly but surely, the penny is dropping: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-latest-poll-remain-ten-points-leave-bmg-a8114406.html

 

I wonder, if we do have a second poll and we decide to Remain, can Brexiteers be billed for time wasting.

More pertinent is, can Remainers  be billed for humungous financial losses incurred by the next Government (Labour) which through their efforts gets JC into Number 10.

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

More pertinent is, can Remainers  be billed for humungous financial losses incurred by the next Government (Labour) which through their efforts gets JC into Number 10.

I was confident the Brexit team would find some way to conveniently overlook the results of the Brexit referendum and ultimately find ways to blame the Remain group for a Corbyn government, congratulations that you haven't disappointed.

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

So you're saying that all the EU citizens from other nations who now live in the UK aren't immigrants? What are they then? And please, share your definition of immigrant with other Brexiters. I'm sure they'll be surprised.

And I noticed you completely failed to address the question of why you think that a difference in systems is irrelevant to wealth inequality? And why you think that cuts in taxation and social services are somehow the fault of the EU.

And by the way, your assertion that income inequality rose with the advent of the EU is false. Actually it declined until 1979.

https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/how-has-inequality-changed

And you know who got elected PM in 1979? Margaret Thatcher. And then it began a very rapid rise that lasted until 1991. Margaret Thatcher resigned in 1990. 

Excellent post. Very illuminating.

[ilostmypassword]

5 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

The PDF you linked doesn't appear to address the point I raised.

 

Clearly, you don't look at your own evidence properly. Income inequality continued to rise in the nineties and noughties until it fell after the last recession. And, according to the report, it continued to fall subsequently in part due to higher social security payments! Nothing to do with rising wages.

Yes it did continue to rise in the 90's but by how much?  At the worst the rise after Thatcher's reign accounted for 25 percent of the rise in inequality. That means that when inequality was highest,  75 percent of it still had occurred during her tenure. And this was BEFORE the single market and the free movement of people. Currently only about 10 percent of that rise happened after the advent of the single market.

 

As for my PDF being irrelevant. It showed that immigrant workers to Germany are paid on average 20% less across the board for the same labor that Germans do. Just possible, just maybe that has something to do with the fact that the German government hasn't managed to gut labor unions the way the Tories have in the UK.

 

And finally, your point about Social Security is bizarre. Income redistribution is one way to  make inequality less. There should be a lot more income redistribution in the UK. Repealing the latest rounds of tax cuts for the wealthy would be a good place to start and using that cash to support further income redistribution and helping working people get ahead. In most EU nations, higher education is just a fraction of the cost of what it takes to get a diploma in the UK. So working class people there have a lot easier time getting ahead and not either foregoing higher education or mortaging their future. In other words, they get to keep more of their money and have a much better chance at a higher paying future. The UK has a dismal record as far as getting its lower income citizens into University compared to other developed EU nations. And the costs have risen sharply. Or don't you think that the lack of affordable access to higher education is a huge reason for income inequality in the UK. And do you seriously believe that the huge rise in its cost has little to do with lower incomes for workers?

[talahtnut]

On 12/15/2017 at 7:04 PM, SheungWan said:

The loopy website versions.

I ask you again, Why have so many conspiracies been proven correct?

 

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, talahtnut said:

I ask you again, Why have so many conspiracies been proven correct?

 

How many is "so many" and what percentage of them have been proven correct?

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

Slowly but surely, the penny is dropping:  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-latest-poll-remain-ten-points-leave-bmg-a8114406.html

 

I wonder, if we do have a second poll and we decide to Remain, can Brexiteers be billed for time wasting.

1,509 polled. Probably outside a university. Hardly representive. Said befor. Last week, 10 Brits st the Noodle shop all backed Brexit, thats 100% in favour. The only real way is and what was done, a referendum and ee know the outcome already. 

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

How many is "so many" and what percentage of them have been proven correct?

If you were really interested you could find out for yourself.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, talahtnut said:

If you were really interested you could find out for yourself.

Probably not. But it's clear that you aren't interested in the least. You'd just rather make unquantifiable assertions in an attempt to score shoddy rhetorical points.

[oldhippy]

7 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

If you were really interested you could find out for yourself.

Ilostmypassword is clearly a prominent member of a conspiracy.

That's my theory.

We can not trust him.

He might actually be a member of several conspiracies simultaneously.

 

 

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

Yes it did continue to rise in the 90's but by how much?  At the worst the rise after Thatcher's reign accounted for 25 percent of the rise in inequality. That means that when inequality was highest,  75 percent of it still had occurred during her tenure. And this was BEFORE the single market and the free movement of people. Currently only about 10 percent of that rise happened after the advent of the single market.

 

As for my PDF being irrelevant. It showed that immigrant workers to Germany are paid on average 20% less across the board for the same labor that Germans do. Just possible, just maybe that has something to do with the fact that the German government hasn't managed to gut labor unions the way the Tories have in the UK.

 

And finally, your point about Social Security is bizarre. Income redistribution is one way to  make inequality less. There should be a lot more income redistribution in the UK. Repealing the latest rounds of tax cuts for the wealthy would be a good place to start and using that cash to support further income redistribution and helping working people get ahead. In most EU nations, higher education is just a fraction of the cost of what it takes to get a diploma in the UK. So working class people there have a lot easier time getting ahead and not either foregoing higher education or mortaging their future. In other words, they get to keep more of their money and have a much better chance at a higher paying future. The UK has a dismal record as far as getting its lower income citizens into University compared to other developed EU nations. And the costs have risen sharply. Or don't you think that the lack of affordable access to higher education is a huge reason for income inequality in the UK. And do you seriously believe that the huge rise in its cost has little to do with lower incomes for workers?

You're on good form! Go get 'em ?

[Grouse]

37 minutes ago, baansgr said:

1,509 polled. Probably outside a university. Hardly representive. Said befor. Last week, 10 Brits st the Noodle shop all backed Brexit, thats 100% in favour. The only real way is and what was done, a referendum and ee know the outcome already. 

Not now we don't. Let's see what the situation is now. 

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Some of the forum Hard Brexiteers never expected or wanted Theresa May to come to an agreement with the EU on stage 1 of the negotiations. They now know that stage 2 will be a possibility and we may have a smoothish transition whereas what they wanted was the car crash option of out now. So, they are not going to waste any time discussing the economic models or fine detail of trade partnerships. No. Not interested. Now they return to base where their core support is interested in one thing and one thing only. Immigration. Not even going to pretend it is about other things. Objective? Push Theresa May off the edge. She is just an Enemy of the People now.

An opinion of opinions from the all seeing....all knowing.....Mystic Wan.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

An opinion of opinions from the all seeing....all knowing.....Mystic Wan.

Really? There were no Brexiters on this forum advocating for an absolute hard Brexit? Amnesia much? Or were they just kidding?

[bert bloggs]

55 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Not now we don't. Let's see what the situation is now. 

So if there is another vote and its to stay in ,but in a years time people are shouting that they want to leave and polls say they are in the majority ,do we have another vote?

[bert bloggs]

1 hour ago, talahtnut said:

If you were really interested you could find out for yourself.

I think if you really know you should tell us .come on ,

[nauseus]

23 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Really? There were no Brexiters on this forum advocating for an absolute hard Brexit? Amnesia much? Or were they just kidding?

The term Hard Brexit was first sputtered out out by the remainers, only after the referendum result. Or did you forget that? 

Edited December 17, 2017 by nauseus

[Grouse]

16 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

So if there is another vote and its to stay in ,but in a years time people are shouting that they want to leave and polls say they are in the majority ,do we have another vote?

Yes, if there is a significant swing in public opinion. Are you saying that nothing has changed over the last 28 months?

[taipeir]

Which rules would they be then, the rules when we joined or the rules we have now?

The moaning and whining can be heard a thousand miles away.
Be careful its not just a symptom of getting old.

Things change.

[bert bloggs]

42 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Yes, if there is a significant swing in public opinion. Are you saying that nothing has changed over the last 28 months?

No i believe people still want to leave , but i am sure you think they want to stay . we had a vote ,it was to leave , its cost me dear , in monetry terms ,but that it , you cant just keep on voting .

[taipeir]

"Moral fortitude"? Who on earth are you referring to? It is quite apparent that there will no benefit to isolating ourselves and eventually the majority will realise this. The decision to leave can, should and in my view, will be reversed.

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

The majority have already realised it.

10% majority for remain now.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-latest-poll-remain-ten-points-leave-bmg-a8114406.html

 

[taipeir]

1,509 polled. Probably outside a university. Hardly representive. Said befor. Last week, 10 Brits st the Noodle shop all backed Brexit, thats 100% in favour. The only real way is and what was done, a referendum and ee know the outcome already. 

Have another referendum then if so confident?

[taipeir]

No i believe people still want to leave , but i am sure you think they want to stay . we had a vote ,it was to leave , its cost me dear , in monetry terms ,but that it , you cant just keep on voting .

Why can't you have another vote exactly?