May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[stevenl]

 
Firstly, Mair denies saying those things. Secondly, if he did say them, he didn't say "This is for brexit. Brexit will always come first." or "I'm a brexit activist." Thirdly, his actions were the result of his mental illness, not politics. His target could just as easily have been a completely different one.
 
I totally understand why remain wants to pin this on brexit: it has the potential to be a game changer. But it's nothing more than political ambulance chasing of the worst kind. The real issue here is how Mair slipped through the social services net. But nobody involved even wants this on the agenda.

Yes, keep sticking your head in the sand.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[CharlieK]

59 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Firstly, Mair denies saying those things. Secondly, if he did say them, he didn't say "This is for brexit. Brexit will always come first." or "I'm a brexit activist." Thirdly, his actions were the result of his mental illness, not politics. His target could just as easily have been a completely different one.

 

I totally understand why remain wants to pin this on brexit: it has the potential to be a game changer. But it's nothing more than political ambulance chasing of the worst kind. The real issue here is how Mair slipped through the social services net. But nobody involved even wants this on the agenda.

 

You really are splitting hairs just because he didn't say brexit! He was compos mentis enough. He denies even killing Jo Cox, doesn't mean he didn't do it. He isn't claiming mental insanity either.  

 

Just how would it be a game changer! You think people would change their minds about Brexit? making it a social services issue is plain stupid. It is not the real issue in any way shape or form. 

Edited November 17, 2016 by CharlieK

[3NUMBAS]

Should read arrogant money hungry junta who will have to eat humble pie at the loss of their pet schemes and unaccountable to nobody ,just like heir Hitler 

[7by7]

5 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

If a document is leaked there's not much a firm like Deloitte's can do about it. But does that mean that the content and views expressed are any less accurate?

 

A lot of fuss around the fact that the document was leaked and did not in fact come from the Cabinet ... completely misses the point. A convenient distraction from the issues ... there is no brexit plan and the Mayhem government are more concerned with their own futures than the country's future.

 

 

As the statement from Deloitte makes clear, the contents of the memo contains no hard facts; just views and opinions. These views and opinions expressed in the memo are just that; views and opinions of their staff members.

 

The memo was prepared for internal use only, not, as claimed by the Times, "for the Cabinet Office." This memo proves absolutely nothing about what plans the government has or does not have. It contains absolutely no input from any branch of the government at all.

 

Those who prepared it probably have more knowledge and experience in such matters than any of us; but the contents of that memo are no more accurate than posts in this topic. The content is mere views and opinions. You may agree of disagree with those views or opinions, but as they are not facts they cannot be described as either accurate or inaccurate. They are educated guesses at best.

 

Unless the government intends to go for the full 'hard Brexit' which simply cuts all ties with the EU, then obviously they do have to make plans and decide upon their position once negotiations over the UK's post Brexit relationship with the EU begin.

 

But, as said before, revealing in advance what those plans are, what the government is prepared to concede and what they are not in advance would be the actions of a complete fool; an act of gross incompetence.

In PMQs yesterday,

Quote

Mrs May said setting out every detail of the UK's negotiating strategy in advance to the other 27 EU member states would be the "best possible way of ensuring we got the worst result for this country", adding: "That's why we won't do it."

Quite!

Edited November 17, 2016 by 7by7

[AlexRich]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

As the statement from Deloitte makes clear, the contents of the memo contains no hard facts; just views and opinions. These views and opinions expressed in the memo are just that; views and opinions of their staff members.

 

The memo was prepared for internal use only, not, as claimed by the Times, "for the Cabinet Office." This memo proves absolutely nothing about what plans the government has or does not have. It contains absolutely no input from any branch of the government at all.

 

Those who prepared it probably have more knowledge and experience in such matters than any of us; but the contents of that memo are no more accurate than posts in this topic. The content is mere views and opinions. You may agree of disagree with those views or opinions, but as they are not facts they cannot be described as either accurate or inaccurate. They are educated guesses at best.

 

Unless the government intends to go for the full 'hard Brexit' which simply cuts all ties with the EU, then obviously they do have to make plans and decide upon their position once negotiations over the UK's post Brexit relationship with the EU begin.

 

But, as said before, revealing in advance what those plans are, what the government is prepared to concede and what they are not in advance would be the actions of a complete fool; an act of gross incompetence.

In PMQs yesterday,

Quite!

 

Deloitte work with government and they also work with major business ... they are not a random guy in the street with an opinion ... they are insiders in this process and a great deal closer to the action than anyone on here. 

 

May's refusal to discuss what the Government are aiming at is not some negotiation tactic, it is merely a 'cover story' to hide the fact that they do not have a clear plan in place. Why? Because the complexity of the task at hand is enormous and they quite simply have not got their collective heads round it nor have they currently the manpower in place to do so. 

 

And that is why they are desperate to avoid parliamentary scrutiny ... it would expose their "gross incompetence". 

 

 

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, CharlieK said:

 

You really are splitting hairs just because he didn't say brexit! He was compos mentis enough. He denies even killing Jo Cox, doesn't mean he didn't do it. He isn't claiming mental insanity either.  

 

Just how would it be a game changer! You think people would change their minds about Brexit? making it a social services issue is plain stupid. It is not the real issue in any way shape or form. 

 

Mair's mental health issues are absolutely key to this murder:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/17/jo-cox-murder-thomas-mair-asked-for-mental-health-treatment-day/amp/

 

Can't you see that this case is being twisted into anti-brexit propaganda? It's staring you in the face, man.

 

Project Fear failed on the economy, so now it's concentrating on shaming brexiters away from support for brexit, in tandem with the legal battle, where it's also using the 'shame by association' tactics with it's little Gina Miller sideshow.

[CharlieK]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

Mair's mental health issues are absolutely key to this murder:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/17/jo-cox-murder-thomas-mair-asked-for-mental-health-treatment-day/amp/

 

Can't you see that this case is being twisted into anti-brexit propaganda? It's staring you in the face, man.

 

Project Fear failed on the economy, so now it's concentrating on shaming brexiters away from support for brexit, in tandem with the legal battle, where it's also using the 'shame by association' tactics with it's little Gina Miller sideshow.

 

What I see is a poster trying to make connections that aren't there in so far as this being anti brexit propaganda. At the end of the day there is no doubt that this guy killed Jo cox. That this would then be used as a reason to stop brexit is crazy on so many levels. 

 

Trying to spin this into a conspiracy is plain stupid.  

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, CharlieK said:

 

What I see is a poster trying to make connections that aren't there in so far as this being anti brexit propaganda. At the end of the day there is no doubt that this guy killed Jo cox. That this would then be used as a reason to stop brexit is crazy on so many levels. 

 

Trying to spin this into a conspiracy is plain stupid.  

 

The only attempted spin is being done by you and remain. Mair sought help for his mental illness the day before he murdered Jo Cox (and was turned away). Yet you have argued, absurdly, that his mental health is not relevant. And remain and their supporters want to apportion the whole blame for Jo Cox's death on some alleged climate of hatred created by brexit leave. It takes gutter politics to a whole new low. Disgusting!

[AlexRich]

16 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

The only attempted spin is being done by you and remain. Mair sought help for his mental illness the day before he murdered Jo Cox (and was turned away). Yet you have argued, absurdly, that his mental health is not relevant. And remain and their supporters want to apportion the whole blame for Jo Cox's death on some alleged climate of hatred created by brexit leave. It takes gutter politics to a whole new low. Disgusting!

 

Just looked at my BBC news app, they are reporting that a witness in court today stated that Thomas Muir shouted "Britain First".

 

... but I don't expect an apology from KH ... after all it is possible the witness was a lying Remain stooge, perjuring himself to stop Brexit from happening ... eh, KH? 

[CharlieK]

22 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

The only attempted spin is being done by you and remain. Mair sought help for his mental illness the day before he murdered Jo Cox (and was turned away). Yet you have argued, absurdly, that his mental health is not relevant. And remain and their supporters want to apportion the whole blame for Jo Cox's death on some alleged climate of hatred created by brexit leave. It takes gutter politics to a whole new low. Disgusting!

 

It wouldn't be the first time someone used mental issues to avoid prison. So because he couldn't get help he decides to go find Jo Cox and kill her? Was that to bring attention to his problem? Surely that he killed her is enough. That he said what he said (as per one of my previous posts)  rather than shout "this is because I can't get help for mental issues? or are all the witness's being forced to lie about what he said? 

 

Oh and by the way, I am for Brexit, certainly not a remainer. I just don't go for the BS that you are trying to spout. 

Edited November 17, 2016 by CharlieK

[Khun Han]

47 minutes ago, CharlieK said:

 

It wouldn't be the first time someone used mental issues to avoid prison. So because he couldn't get help he decides to go find Jo Cox and kill her? Was that to bring attention to his problem? Surely that he killed her is enough. That he said what he said (as per one of my previous posts)  rather than shout "this is because I can't get help for mental issues? or are all the witness's being forced to lie about what he said? 

 

Oh and by the way, I am for Brexit, certainly not a remainer. I just don't go for the BS that you are trying to spout. 

 

What on earth are you prattling on about? It's so plainly obvious that the reason why Mair murdered Jo Cox was because he is mentally ill. For christ sake, he sought help for it the day before he murdered her. That's a real connection, and the one that everyone should be focusing on. Not some alleged political comments he made as he was getting his head bashed in by the arresting officers. In a sane world, everyone would be focusing on how he slipped through the net so long, on why he wasn't receiving treatment and being monitored. Instead, we have this ludicrous situation where everybody (including us) is focusing on his politics, and many are blaming politics for this manifestation of his insanity. And you'd prefer not to even look at his insanity, even suggesting that it could be an excuse!!!

[AlexRich]

Mair was mentally unhinged, but had never attacked anyone ... before the referendum campaign. A catalyst, perhaps!

 

There's a clue of course ... a witness stated today he shouted "Britain First" ... looks like we now know what pushed him over the edge!

[AlexRich]

"Unemployed gardener Thomas Mair, 53, also stabbed the Labour politician 15 times, according to one eyewitness, and said 'this is for Britain' as he murdered her in cold blood, jurors were told".

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3945468/Jo-Cox-stabbed-15-times-shot-man-walked-away-hadn-t-care-world-say-witnesses-MP-s-murder.html#ixzz4QIwhQWVz 
 

[AlexRich]

KH and Laughing ... he wasn't pushed over the edge by the poisonous atmosphere created by the referendum debate? It would have happened anyway? Then why focus on local Remain supporting MP's?

 

"He also searched the internet for Jo Cox, William Hague - another 'Remain' supporting Yorkshire MP - assassinations and shootings, jurors have heard".

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3945468/Jo-Cox-stabbed-15-times-shot-man-walked-away-hadn-t-care-world-say-witnesses-MP-s-murder.html#ixzz4QIyckHEM 
 

[CharlieK]

5 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

What on earth are you prattling on about? It's so plainly obvious that the reason why Mair murdered Jo Cox was because he is mentally ill. For christ sake, he sought help for it the day before he murdered her. That's a real connection, and the one that everyone should be focusing on. Not some alleged political comments he made as he was getting his head bashed in by the arresting officers. In a sane world, everyone would be focusing on how he slipped through the net so long, on why he wasn't receiving treatment and being monitored. Instead, we have this ludicrous situation where everybody (including us) is focusing on his politics, and many are blaming politics for this manifestation of his insanity. And you'd prefer not to even look at his insanity, even suggesting that it could be an excuse!!!

 

Again you exaggerate, It is not focusing on his politics, rather that he seemed to be making a political statement when he committed the crime.

If he was insane, he wouldn't know he needed help with mental health issues! He was sane enough to go looking for help and then go looking for a specific person to kill rather than any joe bloggs because he couldn't get help. That is not insanity.

 

If you want to talk about mental health issues and the lack of support for such illnesses then start a new topic.  

Edited November 17, 2016 by CharlieK

[Laughing Gravy]

6 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Mair was mentally unhinged, but had never attacked anyone ... before the referendum campaign. A catalyst, perhaps!

 

There's a clue of course ... a witness stated today he shouted "Britain First" ... looks like we now know what pushed him over the edge!

Whichever newspaper you read they all agree he was mentally ill. Depending which you read will tell you his politics. If you believe his brother which I am not saying you should he had no political views. the point being that bit is still debatable. His mental history is not. People with mental illness have the possibility of doing anything depending on a multitude of factors.

 

His brother, Scott, 49, said he had “a history of mental illness”. Scott Mair told reporters he had wept when he heard about the killing of Mrs Cox.

He said: “I am struggling to believe what has happened. My brother is not violent and is not all that political. I don’t even know who he votes for. He has a history of mental illness, but he has had help.”

"I don't think he belonged to any political party and I never heard him express any views about Europe or anything like that. To us, he was just Tommy, a local bloke we all knew.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/16/jo-cox-mp-everything-we-know-so-far-about-thomas-mair/

[Laughing Gravy]

People wonder why or how on earth did people vote for brexit.  when you see just what a club it is and corrupt, The sooner the UK is out the better. TM tell the Germans to get stuffed. Poland what a cheek. They hardly contribute. The sooner TM gets out the better.  I know some posters can't access the Times, hence the copy and paste of much of the article.

 

Britain could be forced to pay into the EU for a decade after it leaves, senior European politicians said yesterday.

Wolfgang Schäuble, the German finance minister, backed claims from Poland that the EU would continue to demand billions of pounds in contributions after Brexit to cover its previous pledges. He suggested that Britain could still be making payments ten years after it left the EU because some spending commitments may stretch forward by more than a decade.

“Until the UK’s exit is complete, Britain will certainly have to fulfil its commitments,” he told the Financial Times. “Possibly there will be some commitments that last beyond the exit even, in part, to 2030. Also we cannot grant any generous rebates.”

Under Theresa May’s plans Britain will leave the EU by April 1, 2019. Poland said it expected that British taxpayers would have to continue funding the European budget until at least the end of 2020 — the culmination of the EU’s seven-year financing period that began in 2014.

“I think the EU will stand on the position that in the current financial framework Britain’s budget contributions should be upheld,” Konrad Szymanski, Poland’s deputy foreign minister, said yesterday.

 

If Britain is required to meet its EU budget commitments for 2020 and the last nine months of 2019 after Brexit without its usual rebate the bill will be more than £30 billion. The demand for Britain to continue payments is expected to be a condition for the start of Brexit talks in March.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/britain-may-have-to-fund-eu-for-a-decade-after-leaving-6x2nmnrlm

 

[AlexRich]

" my brother isn't violent and not all that political" ... says Thomas Mair's brother?

 

Mmmm ... that's the same Thomas Mair who internet searches two local Remain MP's, stabs and shoots one of them to death, whilst shouting "Britain First"?

 

But LaughingGravy thinks it's still "debatable" that he had any political views ... I'm sure there's a few holocaust deniers who would agree with you, but given the evidence piling up in court even some of them would be embarrassed to be associated with you and Kuhn Han's view on this tragedy.

 

 

[AlexRich]

The EU is corrupt because it asks the U.K. To follow through on its commitments?

 

If you sign a contract to jointly fund a project you can't unfortunately vote your way out of it ... is it really that unexpected that it would end up on the negotiation table?

 

And that is the problem with the Pollyanna case for Brexit. We'll all fall off a rainbow into a pot of gold.

 

The reality is that it would be an immensely complex and convoluted process with a lose-lose outcome for all parties involved. No one on here has ever claimed that the EU was perfect, but it would have made more sense to stay and fight with like minded groups for change ... and given the growing tensions around a key subject like immigration that would have been quite possible. The Mayhem government are only just waking up to that complexity. We'll all be poorer at the end of this ... roll out the barrel! 

 

But it don't blame the EU for taking a negotiating stance ... they didn't vote for us to leave!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

2 hours ago, AlexRich said:

The EU is corrupt because it asks the U.K. To follow through on its commitments?

 

If you sign a contract to jointly fund a project you can't unfortunately vote your way out of it ... is it really that unexpected that it would end up on the negotiation table?

 

And that is the problem with the Pollyanna case for Brexit. We'll all fall off a rainbow into a pot of gold.

 

The reality is that it would be an immensely complex and convoluted process with a lose-lose outcome for all parties involved. No one on here has ever claimed that the EU was perfect, but it would have made more sense to stay and fight with like minded groups for change ... and given the growing tensions around a key subject like immigration that would have been quite possible. The Mayhem government are only just waking up to that complexity. We'll all be poorer at the end of this ... roll out the barrel! 

 

But it don't blame the EU for taking a negotiating stance ... they didn't vote for us to leave!

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is the line I hear often the EU wasn't perfect. The fact is the UK government gave them many opportunities to reform and they refused. The EU has put a stranglehold on countries to make leaving difficult. The UK is taking the lead and soon others will follow. As for like minded groups for change. There is no change. just do as the EU commission demand. Putting the argument that staying in is easier and less complex than leaving has no credence. We will see how the EU changes its stance once some of the other populist parties get into power in the other EU countries, which won't be long. What will the doomsday preppers, EU lovers, do then. Commit mass suicide.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, AlexRich said:

" my brother isn't violent and not all that political" ... says Thomas Mair's brother?

 

Mmmm ... that's the same Thomas Mair who internet searches two local Remain MP's, stabs and shoots one of them to death, whilst shouting "Britain First"?

 

But LaughingGravy thinks it's still "debatable" that he had any political views ... I'm sure there's a few holocaust deniers who would agree with you, but given the evidence piling up in court even some of them would be embarrassed to be associated with you and Kuhn Han's view on this tragedy.

 

 

I agree insofar as the referendum resulted in some people becoming more obviously racist in general life, as opposed to just telling racist jokes.

 

Unfortunately there was one mentally ill person that took this a step further - and murdered Jo Cox  .

 

Entirely off topic though, and I'm sure there must be a thread on which this murder would be better discussed.

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, AlexRich said:

The EU is corrupt because it asks the U.K. To follow through on its commitments?

 

If you sign a contract to jointly fund a project you can't unfortunately vote your way out of it ... is it really that unexpected that it would end up on the negotiation table?

 

And that is the problem with the Pollyanna case for Brexit. We'll all fall off a rainbow into a pot of gold.

 

The reality is that it would be an immensely complex and convoluted process with a lose-lose outcome for all parties involved. No one on here has ever claimed that the EU was perfect, but it would have made more sense to stay and fight with like minded groups for change ... and given the growing tensions around a key subject like immigration that would have been quite possible. The Mayhem government are only just waking up to that complexity. We'll all be poorer at the end of this ... roll out the barrel! 

 

But it don't blame the EU for taking a negotiating stance ... they didn't vote for us to leave!

 

 

 

 

 

 

The EU is corrupt - which is why its accounts haven't been endorsed by accountants for many years.

 

I could be wrong about this though, and am sure that if this is not the case posters will point out my error very quickly.

 

Back on topic, I hope May is ready for "tough talks" despite the propaganda spread by the Deloittes 'memo' that was intended for internal consumption, but inexplicably given to others.  And ended up as a Times newspaper lie that it was prepared as a requested Cabinet memo....

 

At the moment, none of us know and just hope that the politicians are doing their best to respect the brexit vote rather than only considering their political position, both short term and long term.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

As the statement from Deloitte makes clear, the contents of the memo contains no hard facts; just views and opinions. These views and opinions expressed in the memo are just that; views and opinions of their staff members.

 

Everyone has views and opinions and is free to express them. The circumstances may have been a bit dubious but the content is a bit disconcerting when others are expressing similar views.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-civil-service-isnt-ready-for-enormity-of-brexit-says-former-cabinet-secretary-a7423206.html

 

The government is perfectly free to rubbish Deloitte, after all what is a few jobs when brexit means brexit at any cost.

May rebuked Deloitte for “touting for business”. The company employs 16,000 people in the UK, generating over £3bn and handles many government contracts as well as auditing a host of FTSE 100 firms.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-deloitte-says-will-move-work-out-of-uk-theresa-may-immigration-restrictions-article-50-a7422461.html

 

 

[sandyf]

It is about time the brexit camp stood up and acknowledged that they have opened Pandora's Box.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-nurses-are-suffering-racist-abuse-and-heading-home-a-parliamentary-inquiry-is-told-a7423611.html

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Everyone has views and opinions and is free to express them. The circumstances may have been a bit dubious but the content is a bit disconcerting when others are expressing similar views.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-civil-service-isnt-ready-for-enormity-of-brexit-says-former-cabinet-secretary-a7423206.html

 

The government is perfectly free to rubbish Deloitte, after all what is a few jobs when brexit means brexit at any cost.

May rebuked Deloitte for “touting for business”. The company employs 16,000 people in the UK, generating over £3bn and handles many government contracts as well as auditing a host of FTSE 100 firms.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-deloitte-says-will-move-work-out-of-uk-theresa-may-immigration-restrictions-article-50-a7422461.html

 

 

Re. the first para, very true - as long as they don't pretend their opinions were anything other than opinions given in an internal memo for their own companies consumption.

 

Instead, they took a long time to admit that the Times article (that it was a Cabinet memo) was not true at all.

 

Give up trying to defend this ridiculous farce - it was nothing but a farce from start to finish.

[sandyf]

38 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

The EU is corrupt - which is why its accounts haven't been endorsed by accountants for many years.

 

I could be wrong about this though, and am sure that if this is not the case posters will point out my error very quickly.

 

Back on topic, I hope May is ready for "tough talks" despite the propaganda spread by the Deloittes 'memo' that was intended for internal consumption, but inexplicably given to others.  And ended up as a Times newspaper lie that it was prepared as a requested Cabinet memo....

 

At the moment, none of us know and just hope that the politicians are doing their best to respect the brexit vote rather than only considering their political position, both short term and long term.

Ref the EU accounts

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36276175

 

UKIP has been picked up.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-ukip-eu-money-misspending-eu-referendum-campaign-a7422471.html

 

[dick dasterdly]

15 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Ref the EU accounts

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36276175

 

UKIP has been picked up.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-ukip-eu-money-misspending-eu-referendum-campaign-a7422471.html

 

Depressing that I too 'fell' for the oft quoted lie that accountants hadn't 'signed off' EU accounts for many years .

[RuamRudy]

24 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Ref the EU accounts

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36276175

 

UKIP has been picked up.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-ukip-eu-money-misspending-eu-referendum-campaign-a7422471.html

 

 

I am looking forward to the Farage Fanboys trying to explain this one away.

 

EU - financially audited to international standards; UKIP a cheating, corrupt organisation living up down Farage's lies.

[dick dasterdly]

27 minutes ago, sandyf said:

It is about time the brexit camp stood up and acknowledged that they have opened Pandora's Box.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-nurses-are-suffering-racist-abuse-and-heading-home-a-parliamentary-inquiry-is-told-a7423611.html

Haven't read the article, but when it comes to nurses suffering racist abuse - I understand entirely having had the misfortune to visit a neighbour in a 'geriatric ward'.  Staffed pretty much by foreigners who made it very obvious that they didn't care about the elderly on their ward.

 

The 'care' was so bad/non-existent that I told everyone I know - <deleted>, finish me off rather than letting me go to one of those wards .

 

But then again, that's another topic - the way 'nursing' has changed over the last few decades.

[dick dasterdly]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I am looking forward to the Farage Fanboys trying to explain this one away.

 

EU - financially audited to international standards; UKIP a cheating, corrupt organisation living up down Farage's lies.

Do me a favour, and give up on the hyperbole.

 

You may well be right that the EU accounts are squeaky clean and that UKIP accounts aren't.  But at the end of the day (for the working class voter), I think it boiled down to  - is the EU working for you?

 

And, as it turned out, many thought it wasn't (and neither was their government) and so voted to reject their politicians/media recommendations/advice - and voted leave.

 

Edit - Personally, I've never understood why it took the working class to take so long to realise that they no longer had a party working for 'them'.

Edited November 18, 2016 by dick dasterdly