May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Rhys]

happy holidays

[Laughing Gravy]

39 minutes ago, Rhys said:

happy holidays

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. At least whilst we  are still allowed to say that.

 

I am sure TM will have a interesting time coming with everything happening in the EU with the banks, Italy, Greece, terror attacks. The EU playing hard ball just might change their new years resolution, to being more sensible to TM and the UK.

[jpinx]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

TM on the spot.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-eu-immigration-plans-regulations-yvette-cooper-border-controls-a7487446.html

Actually it sounds much more like the other way around.  TM is not giving an inch to anyone because she needs a clear run at Brussels.  There is no need for debate about all the details, suffice to say that we're going for Brexit with the best deal available in every respect.  If you don't like the way your MP is handling this -- write to him/her. 

[Khun Han]

11 minutes ago, jpinx said:

9 hours ago, Grouse said:

So that's what she inferred!

 

These grammar school girls are very intuitive aren't they!!

Your arrogance doesn't quite mask your stupidity.  Such remarks make your presence unhelpful and unwelcome.

 

I was surprised by the poorness of Grouse's reply too. It was a remarkably perceptive (and, unusually for a prime minister, candid) statement by PM May that I quoted. It's this type of statement which puts politicians palpably in touch with 'the people'. Trying to belittle it is borderline pathetic.

[dick dasterdly]

12 hours ago, Khun Han said:

PM May appearing before the Liason Committee:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38383216

 

And showing that she has her finger on the pulse:

 

"It's important that we understand the wider meaning of the referendum result and respond accordingly. It wasn't just a vote to leave the EU, but to change the way the country works and the people for whom it works forever."

 

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I was surprised by the poorness of Grouse's reply too. It was a remarkably perceptive (and, unusually for a prime minister, candid) statement by PM May that I quoted. It's this type of statement which puts politicians palpably in touch with 'the people'. Trying to belittle it is borderline pathetic.

Whilst I entirely agree with May's statement - I'll believe it when I see it .

[jpinx]

16 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Whilst I entirely agree with May's statement - I'll believe it when I see it .

Court decisions notwithstanding, I prefer to give her the benefit of the doubt for now.  It was a poisoned chalice she took and no-one else in Westminster of any political colour has demonstrated anything like the ability to cope with the situation we are now living through.  There is a dearth of strong, positive leadership nowadays.  Politicians are all grey-faced nobodies, or loose cannons that can not be trusted to hand the biscuits around. 

Edited December 21, 2016 by jpinx

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Whilst I entirely agree with May's statement - I'll believe it when I see it .

 

I fully understand where you're coming from. I'm moderately optimistic (and it's a first for me, because I've never been optimistic about a Tory government in my life!), because she's so far walking the walk as well as talking the talk. Clearing the ministries of most of the public school toff MP network was a brave and bold move.

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I fully understand where you're coming from. I'm moderately optimistic (and it's a first for me, because I've never been optimistic about a Tory government in my life!), because she's so far walking the walk as well as talking the talk. Clearing the ministries of most of the public school toff MP network was a brave and bold move.

I didn't know that, but I liked the post hoping that its true.

[Khun Han]

29 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

38 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I fully understand where you're coming from. I'm moderately optimistic (and it's a first for me, because I've never been optimistic about a Tory government in my life!), because she's so far walking the walk as well as talking the talk. Clearing the ministries of most of the public school toff MP network was a brave and bold move.

I didn't know that, but I liked the post hoping that its true.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/prime-minister-theresa-may-new-cabinet-lowest-number-of-privately-educated-ministers-a7138116.html

[7by7]

22 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

I said EC rather than EU, mistake, I should have said EEC rather than EU

(as far as I remember the naming of the directives follows the name of the Union

 at the time where/when the buraucrats finds legal authority for the directive in the Treaty of Rome or later updates.

 The free movement stuff is old, hence EEC rather than EU.)

 

The freedom of movement directive came into force in 2004. It brought together all the freedom of movement rights in previous directives into one.

 

DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 29 April 2004

Quote

on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States amending Regulation (EEC) No 1612/68 and repealing Directives 64/221/EEC, 68/360/EEC, 72/194/EEC, 73/148/EEC, 75/34/EEC, 75/35/EEC, 90/364/EEC, 90/365/EEC and 93/96/EEC

 

But I'm being pedantic. What really matters, of course, is whether or not the UK will have to accept the free movement of people as per the directive in any post Brexit deal.

[Orac]

Thanks to the fall in sterling we have just dropped another place in terms of GDP down to 7th behind India after going below France a few months ago.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/for-the-first-time-in-nearly-150-years-indias-economy-surpasses-that-of-united-kingdom/articleshow/56064690.cms

[sandyf]

8 hours ago, jpinx said:

Actually it sounds much more like the other way around.  TM is not giving an inch to anyone because she needs a clear run at Brussels.  There is no need for debate about all the details, suffice to say that we're going for Brexit with the best deal available in every respect.  If you don't like the way your MP is handling this -- write to him/her. 

She is like a fish trying to get off the hook. In her time as Home Secretary she did little to reduce immigration and even if she stopped all Europeans from coming to the UK she would still be miles off target, but not prepared to admit the target is unrealistic. She was quite happy to abandon the previous public borrowing target, but immigration, different story.

She seems to think that this 'best deal' tactic is a get out of jail card, its about time people realised that there is no such thing as a 'best deal', there can only ever be a bad deal or an even worse deal.

[Khun Han]

50 minutes ago, sandyf said:

She is like a fish trying to get off the hook. In her time as Home Secretary she did little to reduce immigration and even if she stopped all Europeans from coming to the UK she would still be miles off target, but not prepared to admit the target is unrealistic. She was quite happy to abandon the previous public borrowing target, but immigration, different story.

She seems to think that this 'best deal' tactic is a get out of jail card, its about time people realised that there is no such thing as a 'best deal', there can only ever be a bad deal or an even worse deal.

 

I'll just add the "in my opinion" that Sandy forgot when making the above post.

[Grouse]

23 hours ago, Khun Han said:

PM May appearing before the Liason Committee:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38383216

 

And showing that she has her finger on the pulse:

 

"It's important that we understand the wider meaning of the referendum result and respond accordingly. It wasn't just a vote to leave the EU, but to change the way the country works and the people for whom it works forever."

 

To re-iterate, what is her justification to infer that? We are continuously told the referendum was a binary decision...

[Grouse]

11 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Sorry? Which/whose point? Yours? 

 

As you well know I opined that the UK contribution was no big deal compared to our GDP. I also made the point that there are 11 net contributor states. 

 

You are are becoming increasingly unpleasant ?

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

 

As you well know I opined that the UK contribution was no big deal compared to our GDP. I also made the point that there are 11 net contributor states. 

 

You are are becoming increasingly unpleasant ?

 

The point being made by another poster (that you are still trying to obfuscate by waffling on about percentage of GDP) is that only the nett contributions of a minority of those eleven are subtantial. The point being, rather obviously, that the money put in the pot by the other nett contributors probably wouldn't fund much more than the EU's fine wines and food bill, however much of a sterling effort it is on those smaller countries part as a percentage of their GDP.

 

And I think you need to address your own behaviour before complaining about that of others.

[Laughing Gravy]

in my opinion, I believe that the UK's exit from the EU is in a much stronger position than in June. The recent attacks in Berlin, The falling Banks, the economies of Italy, Greece and others. The fact that other states want there own referendum. The UK is doing just nicely and those who still can't seem to grasp what the referendum was about, getting out of the corrupt EU might start to see that the EU stranglehold on the UK, is not for good of the UK people and for many of the people of other EU states.

 

The UK has always been skeptical of the EU and rightly so. I expect TM is smiling contently with the way the EU is going recently. I am sure I will get the remain camp slapping me down for having this view.

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

in my opinion, I believe that the UK's exit from the EU is in a much stronger position than in June. The recent attacks in Berlin, The falling Banks, the economies of Italy, Greece and others. The fact that other states want there own referendum. The UK is doing just nicely and those who still can't seem to grasp what the referendum was about, getting out of the corrupt EU might start to see that the EU stranglehold on the UK, is not for good of the UK people and for many of the people of other EU states.

 

The UK has always been skeptical of the EU and rightly so. I expect TM is smiling contently with the way the EU is going recently. I am sure I will get the remain camp slapping me down for having this view.

" The UK is doing just nicely " - that's one way of putting it.

Is the will of the people stronger than the pound in their pocket? The cost of brexit will squeeze the pips out of government funding for years to come.

Phillip Hammond is on track with an undetermined deficit forecast. Of course they cannot say when the deficit will be cleared as they seek the best possible deal.

 

The Government borrowed a higher-than-expected £12.6bn in November, leading to fears that Brexit is having an impact on the UK’s public finances. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/borrowing-higher-than-expected-brexit-philip-hammond-a7488616.html

 

[sandyf]

9 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

To re-iterate, what is her justification to infer that? We are continuously told the referendum was a binary decision...

None. Maybe my ballot paper was different but I only saw one very simple question.

Any other views on the referendum result are nothing more than unsubstantiated speculation. The consequence is that certain groups have put their own interpretation on the result so conflict and confusion is the order of the day. 

The United in the Kingdom has been destroyed and the EU alienated, there can never be a good result.

[Khun Han]

13 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

To re-iterate, what is her justification to infer that? We are continuously told the referendum was a binary decision...

 

In your haste to put PM May down, you have forgotten that you have spent a fair bit of time on the forum agreeing with her on this matter: she has identified that one of the reasons many people voted leave is that they have been excluded/left behind by the way society has developed under the EU. And she has reiterated to parliament what she has stated previously: that government policies are going to try to change this for the better. How can any but the most selfish, elitist of individuals not agree with this?

[Khun Han]

8 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

in my opinion, I believe that the UK's exit from the EU is in a much stronger position than in June. The recent attacks in Berlin, The falling Banks, the economies of Italy, Greece and others. The fact that other states want there own referendum. The UK is doing just nicely and those who still can't seem to grasp what the referendum was about, getting out of the corrupt EU might start to see that the EU stranglehold on the UK, is not for good of the UK people and for many of the people of other EU states.

 

The UK has always been skeptical of the EU and rightly so. I expect TM is smiling contently with the way the EU is going recently. I am sure I will get the remain camp slapping me down for having this view.

 

The big argument for remainers is the money. They won't even touch upon the issue of EU economic bullying, and stick their heads in the sand when it comes to the EU's stated aim of a federal Europe.

 

In the 1930s, remainers would have been in the appeasment camp, blithely glossing over the bigger issues for the sake of short-term economic and political stability.

[lannarebirth]

 

Quote

 

Economic growth is defying Brexit forecasts and 'picking up pace'

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/cbi-economic-growth-defys-brexit-forecasts-q4-picking-up-pace-2016-12

 

 

 

[SheungWan]

34 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

The big argument for remainers is the money. They won't even touch upon the issue of EU economic bullying, and stick their heads in the sand when it comes to the EU's stated aim of a federal Europe.

 

In the 1930s, remainers would have been in the appeasment camp, blithely glossing over the bigger issues for the sake of short-term economic and political stability.

 

It is the French National Front which is against the EU which has its roots in the Vichy Regime which appeased the Nazis in actualite. Marine Le Pen said last month that there wasn't a hair's breadth between the NF and UKIP. Appeasement? Racism and nationalism to the fore? Well fancy that again.

[Khun Han]

4 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

It is the French National Front which is against the EU which has its roots in the Vichy Regime which appeased the Nazis in actualite. Marine Le Pen said last month that there wasn't a hair's breadth between the NF and UKIP. Appeasement? Racism and nationalism to the fore? Well fancy that again.

 

I was discussing the UK, not France.

[evadgib]

This'll keep you lot going for a while :)

 https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/brexit-and-the-commonwealth-what-next-speech-by-paul-rennie         

  

[Grouse]

14 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

The point being made by another poster (that you are still trying to obfuscate by waffling on about percentage of GDP) is that only the nett contributions of a minority of those eleven are subtantial. The point being, rather obviously, that the money put in the pot by the other nett contributors probably wouldn't fund much more than the EU's fine wines and food bill, however much of a sterling effort it is on those smaller countries part as a percentage of their GDP.

 

And I think you need to address your own behaviour before complaining about that of others.

 

No obfuscation intended. Merely pointing out facts and voicing an opinion.

 

It's a pity you feel the need to continue being unpleasant. I toned down my rhetoric weeks ago because of the sensitivity of certain posters.

 

I suspect that you just do not like people taking a different viewpoint.

 

?

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

In your haste to put PM May down, you have forgotten that you have spent a fair bit of time on the forum agreeing with her on this matter: she has identified that one of the reasons many people voted leave is that they have been excluded/left behind by the way society has developed under the EU. And she has reiterated to parliament what she has stated previously: that government policies are going to try to change this for the better. How can any but the most selfish, elitist of individuals not agree with this?

 

My comment about May was facetious.

 

I'm a grammar school boy and it didnt't do me any harm ?

 

No my point, and not entirely serious, was that May is interpreting the referendum result. In fact, I think we can agree, there were multiple motivations

 

As to May being for a fairer society, I'll believe it when I see it! I note austerity will pretty much continue but with reduced taxes for the better off and corporations.

 

I must say I do not like her hectoring style - bit like head girl?

 

We shall see ?

[Laughing Gravy]

7 hours ago, sandyf said:

None. Maybe my ballot paper was different but I only saw one very simple question.

Any other views on the referendum result are nothing more than unsubstantiated speculation. The consequence is that certain groups have put their own interpretation on the result so conflict and confusion is the order of the day. 

The United in the Kingdom has been destroyed and the EU alienated, there can never be a good result.

Oh dear sandyf still bitter it would seem.  It has been said time and time again. Go and see what David Cameron said about the referendum as Prime Minister. It has been killed to death. You really still seem angry. I suggest you should come to terms with what the people voted for. I am not going to spell it out again as it is becoming repetitive.

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

The big argument for remainers is the money. They won't even touch upon the issue of EU economic bullying, and stick their heads in the sand when it comes to the EU's stated aim of a federal Europe.

 

In the 1930s, remainers would have been in the appeasment camp, blithely glossing over the bigger issues for the sake of short-term economic and political stability.

 

You need to go back a bit further 

 

We should never have gone to war in 1914.

 

off topic methinks...

[Grouse]

10 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Oh dear sandyf still bitter it would seem.  It has been said time and time again. Go and see what David Cameron said about the referendum as Prime Minister. It has been killed to death. You really still seem angry. I suggest you should come to terms with what the people voted for. I am not going to spell it out again as it is becoming repetitive.

 

 

I think May's interpretation was not exactly the same as yours and your mates'?

 

I don't think anyone is angry; just reconciled. (It was the wrong decision though)