A Warning Pension Stopped

[khastan]

54 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

... as it also erroneously quotes out of date criteria for the certification.

 

 

I guess the Pension Service will update their forms eventually.

 

In the meantime there will be people who will insist that the forms have to back in 8 weeks and that you need an 'official stamp'.

With the greatest respect. Whether they update their criteria is not the issue. The point is the actions they carry out.

[khastan]

44 minutes ago, thai3 said:

The whole process is entirely avoidable. In the UK these certs are not sent out as death certs trigger payments to cease. When UK deaths happen in Thailand the Embassy is informed, so all they have to do is pass the info on to works and pensions. In fact this would saved months, maybe years of over payment that they never get back when somebody dies here and relatives, or the useless Embassy say nothing. These certs are an imposition and a disgrace, pensioners should not be having to run around trying to prove they are still alive, no need for it.  

Thank you for your very enlightening post. I could not agree more with you.

 

I can also confirm what you say when a  UK citizen dies in Thailand. I had to handle a friends personal affairs who had unfortunately died whilst living In Thailand. I rung the UK Embassy in Bangkok to inform them of his death. I was told thank you for informing us but we have already received notification of his death from the hospital and this information will be passed on the relevant authorities in the UK.

Edited October 30, 2016 by khastan

[thai3]

Exactly khastan there is no need for this life cert harassment at all

[colinneil]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

More random than that.

 

 

I have friends over 70 who have never had one and friends under 70 who have had 2 in less than 2 years.

 

Yes correct, i have had 2 now in 15 months.

I am 68 so over 70 only is not correct.

[khastan]

29 minutes ago, colinneil said:

Yes correct, i have had 2 now in 15 months.

I am 68 so over 70 only is not correct.

It was only a guess and my experience. Before I reached 70 I only received one. Now I am nearly 72 I have had one each year. Logic would tell any sane person that the older one gets the more chance of the have of dying!

Edited October 30, 2016 by khastan

[Jip99]

50 minutes ago, khastan said:

It was only a guess and my experience. Before I reached 70 I only received one. Now I am nearly 72 I have had one each year. Logic would tell any sane person that the older one gets the more chance of the have of dying!

 

Amen to that!  

 

 

As said above, a pointless exercise and one that could easily be done electronically.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Jip99

[BlackJack]

getting the doc's notorised helps 700 baht

[theoldgit]

getting the doc's notorised helps 700 baht

How would having a Life Certificate notorised help? The issue seems to be with the delivery process.

[khastan]

44 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

How would having a Life Certificate notorised help? The issue seems to be with the delivery process.

Agreed but even if that goes right they can still c--k it up!

[OJAS]

1 minute ago, khastan said:

Agreed but even if that goes right they can still c--k it up!

 

Indeed, I think that the issue here relates to a fundamental internal DWP communications problem, which is, of course, not helped by these certificates being received by a mailing house based in Wolverhampton but processed by an office based in Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

[khastan]

12 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

Indeed, I think that the issue here relates to a fundamental internal DWP communications problem, which is, of course, not helped by these certificates being received by a mailing house based in Wolverhampton but processed by an office based in Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

Yes I agree with you. I think the same could be said for many other UK government departments and public service utilities who are managed by vastly overpaid people who have no idea what they are doing and have no commonsense whatsoever. I find this out to my cost when putting my late father and mothers affairs into order in the last couple of years.

[OJAS]

5 minutes ago, khastan said:

Yes I agree with you. I think the same could be said for many other UK government departments and public service utilities who are managed by vastly overpaid people who have no idea what they are doing and have no commonsense whatsoever. I find this out to my cost when putting my late father and mothers affairs into order in the last couple of years.

 

Indeed, HMPO and the dreaded "With-It Tower Passport Renewal Experience" which they inflicted on us nearly 3 years ago (requiring 2 physical trips at passport renewal time to the top floor of an office building in Bangkok with an exceedingly silly name from whatever far-flung corner in Thailand we live in) spring particularly to mind (or at least to mine) in this connection.

[khastan]

3 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

Indeed, HMPO and the dreaded "With-It Tower Passport Renewal Experience" which they inflicted on us nearly 3 years ago (requiring 2 physical trips at passport renewal time to the top floor of an office building in Bangkok with an exceedingly silly name from whatever far-flung corner in Thailand we live in) spring particularly to mind (or at least to mine) in this connection.

Yes that is a typical example of fine thinking Government logic!

[evadgib]

6 hours ago, thai3 said:

The whole process is entirely avoidable. In the UK these certs are not sent out as death certs trigger payments to cease. When UK deaths happen in Thailand the Embassy is informed, so all they have to do is pass the info on to works and pensions. In fact this would saved months, maybe years of over payment that they never get back when somebody dies here and relatives, or the useless Embassy say nothing. These certs are an imposition and a disgrace, pensioners should not be having to run around trying to prove they are still alive, no need for it.  

 

Data protection legislation prevents the sort of disclosure you're alluding to, especially when no UK death cert has been issued. You might also look up the difference between FCO and Home Office re responsibilities. 

 

Some might nonetheless find this useful:

https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organisations-you-need-to-contact-and-tell-us-once

 

Edited October 30, 2016 by evadgib

[khastan]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

 

https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organisations-you-need-to-contact-and-tell-us-once

 

Went through all that with my late parents in  2014 and 2015. I also Informed everybody I could think of of their deaths including all utility companies council etc etc. However they still sent out a replacement blue badge for my disabled father and a new free TV Licence for my mother well after they had died. The one thing I remember vividly is after my mothers house was sold and I returned to Thailand is receiving, not one not two but five incorrect gas bills which they insisted on sending by snail mail!

[thai3]

I assume that data protection act would also stop the embassy ratting out people living here on a pension but using a UK address, when they apply for an income letter for example? Probably not.

Edited October 30, 2016 by thai3

[evadgib]

12 minutes ago, thai3 said:

Probably not.

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=tick&client=ms-unknown&site=webhp&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjbiLe1x4LQAhXKrY8KHanWDH8Q_AUIBygB&biw=1280&bih=720#imgrc=YveRgPyQo66tSM%3A

Edited October 30, 2016 by evadgib

[khastan]

31 minutes ago, evadgib said:

 

Data protection legislation prevents the sort of disclosure you're alluding to, especially when no UK death cert has been issued. You might also look up the difference between FCO and Home Office re responsibilities. 

 

Some might nonetheless find this useful:

https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organisations-you-need-to-contact-and-tell-us-once

 

Are saying that a legitimate death certificate issued by an hospital in Thailand and then sent to the UK Embassy for processing is breaking data protection laws?

[Retiredandhappyhere]

The Life Certificate that was mailed to me on June 12th was received on July 13th rain-soaked and unusable, so I mailed a letter by registered post on July 14th requesting a copy. Having heard nothing by 7th August, I wrote again by registered post and then again on 21st August, this time by EMS, (costing 31 pounds).  The Post Office tracking system confirmed that all letters had been delivered but not signed for, which was apparently the Pension Office's normal procedure, although obviously not helpful for its expat pensioners.

 

In desperation, I sent an email on September 7th to the Pension Office's "General Enquiry" address, (found on the Internet but not printed on their letterheads) and they emailed me a Life Certificate form which I printed, completed and had certified by my solicitor, before mailing it by registered post on October 19th.  On October 20th I received a letter dated October 4th informing me that my pension was stopped as from September 26th due to non-completion of the Life certificate.

 

I don't know how I could complete a form within the stipulated 8 weeks which effectively I had never received.  The form received by email was submitted within the 8 week period. Why were all my letters just ignored?  I have now sent an emailed summary of events to the "general Enquiry" email address and have asked them to ensure that a copy of it ends up in the hands of the person (supposedly) dealing with my file.  They have (automatically) acknowledged receipt of my email which they say will be dealt with within 10 days, so I am now waiting to hear what action they have taken.  

 

It is annoying that I can submit a UK Tax Return to the Inland Revenue each year and pay the tax due twice a year and yet the Inland Revenue (Pensions section) require me to inform them that I am still alive.  As far as I know, dead men do not personally submit Tax Returns.  As I have already lost 18% of my total income due to the deterioration in the value of the pound resulting from Brexit, the temporary loss of my pension is another blow I could well do without, although naturally I do not expect the UK government to care two hoots about the welfare of expats, many of whom pay the same amount of Income Tax as UK residents, without being able to claim any benefits other than a State Pension and even that is restricted to its starting level, after a full working life in the UK.      

[evadgib]

...the state pension is an entitlement for which you have paid.

[khastan]

14 hours ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

The Life Certificate that was mailed to me on June 12th was received on July 13th rain-soaked and unusable, so I mailed a letter by registered post on July 14th requesting a copy. Having heard nothing by 7th August, I wrote again by registered post and then again on 21st August, this time by EMS, (costing 31 pounds).  The Post Office tracking system confirmed that all letters had been delivered but not signed for, which was apparently the Pension Office's normal procedure, although obviously not helpful for its expat pensioners.

 

In desperation, I sent an email on September 7th to the Pension Office's "General Enquiry" address, (found on the Internet but not printed on their letterheads) and they emailed me a Life Certificate form which I printed, completed and had certified by my solicitor, before mailing it by registered post on October 19th.  On October 20th I received a letter dated October 4th informing me that my pension was stopped as from September 26th due to non-completion of the Life certificate.

 

I don't know how I could complete a form within the stipulated 8 weeks which effectively I had never received.  The form received by email was submitted within the 8 week period. Why were all my letters just ignored?  I have now sent an emailed summary of events to the "general Enquiry" email address and have asked them to ensure that a copy of it ends up in the hands of the person (supposedly) dealing with my file.  They have (automatically) acknowledged receipt of my email which they say will be dealt with within 10 days, so I am now waiting to hear what action they have taken.  

 

It is annoying that I can submit a UK Tax Return to the Inland Revenue each year and pay the tax due twice a year and yet the Inland Revenue (Pensions section) require me to inform them that I am still alive.  As far as I know, dead men do not personally submit Tax Returns.  As I have already lost 18% of my total income due to the deterioration in the value of the pound resulting from Brexit, the temporary loss of my pension is another blow I could well do without, although naturally I do not expect the UK government to care two hoots about the welfare of expats, many of whom pay the same amount of Income Tax as UK residents, without being able to claim any benefits other than a State Pension and even that is restricted to its starting level, after a full working life in the UK.      

Sorry to hear that but it does not surprise at all. Have you tried to contact them on this email address and fax number.  [email protected]  fax number 0191 21 87307. Hope it helps.

They also told me that my state pension had been stopped from the 7th of this month. It was according to them because they had not received my Life Certificate back in the stipulated time allowed This was a downright lie because they acknowledged my Life Certificate had been received and my account had been updated by email well before the cut off point. They then informed me after an irate phone call and similar toned email that this was not correct and my pension had not been stopped, despite me having a letter saying it had. However I have no idea if my pension had been stopped or is still stopped for that matter because my next state pension due date is 5th November. Quite frankly after this debacle I cannot trust them at all. I do not blame the staff however because they get their instructions down the line from vastly overpaid managers who have no idea how to manage people that are appointed on the basis of who they know and not what they know.  

Edited October 31, 2016 by khastan

[khastan]

This state of affairs of course would have been avoided for everyone if they still allowed faxing of completed Life Certificates like they once did. I wonder what brain box came up with this decision and the reason why. 

[evadgib]

The Bee in your bonnet no doubt contributed significantly to whatever hardships you might have encountered.

[khastan]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The Bee in your bonnet no doubt contributed significantly to whatever hardships you might have encountered.

Sorry do not understand please explain.

[khastan]

Dont 

4 minutes ago, khastan said:

Sorry do not understand please explain.

Don't bother I have looked it up. All I can say is I just hope a similar thing never happens to you.

[OJAS]

22 hours ago, thai3 said:

I assume that data protection act would also stop the embassy ratting out people living here on a pension but using a UK address, when they apply for an income letter for example? Probably not.

 

Where fraud is suspected (e.g. using a UK address with the purpose of receiving annual State Pension increases to which DWP have deemed you not entitled), it would not.