Why so much criticism of Thailand?

[dotpoom]

I have to agree with you....I am constantly amazed by the shock and awe expressed on here when an unfortunate lady has been raped, a gang member gets shot, a man is violent towards his wife, a lady runs away with a new man after "cleaning" her husband out. I think to myself...."Were you living under a rock in your home country"?... which in my opinion is head and shoulders above anything that goes on here....Yes, I mean the average country in the West.

   One thing I find very insulting though and you referred to it in your post...how many times have I heard on American TV,  (only got the chance to watch it since coming to Thailand 16 years ago) and from my American friends... the phrase..... you know, I come from  "the greatest country in the world.".... the first time I heard it I was nearly rocked off my feet....how crass...how insulting is that to people who do not come from America. Most people love their own country as much as any American loves theirs and are equally as proud of it, even up to the point that they would be willing to give their lives for it. 

   The best way I can explain it is this way....Many years ago an Uncle of mine said to me.....B,... when you are talking to an educated man, he does not have to tell you...."I'm an educated man",.... Why?....because you will soon discover that for yourself. Likewise, using that principle....why do many Americans feel it is necessary to tell people....that they come from  "the greatest country in the world."

     If your answer is "because they do"..... I say ... that may be your opinion..... but we all have our own individual, personal opinions and it is not for one to put theirs onto another.

      PS. Like my Uncle said....if that were the case....you wouldn't have to keep telling us, would we not know already?

[joeyg]

2 hours ago, mamypoko said:

People bitch and moan all the time, maybe, especially when abroad...certainly when in the military.

 

I could walk through my local Thai market one day and be thinking...this is the coolest place in the world. The next day...god, will these people get out of my way!

 

I'm sorry you feel so poorly about the US right now. There are certainly many crappy things happening. But what I read about and see on TV is nothing like what I see when I'm Stateside. 

Actually I don't "feel poorly" about the US.  I left San Diego where I lived for 30 years and personally had a great life and career.  I guess my  point is the corruption/exploitation in Thailand is sophomoric compared to the US.

Kid's stuff really.

[Thaidream]

As an American, I probably criticise my own country more than anyone and realize it is not the same country I was born in and loved. However, the OP is not accurate in his description. There is still much freedom in the US. One can say what is on one's mind without fear of anything. The problem is that much of what is said in the media is based upon how well it will sell products or program time and there are very few real journalists who check facts and provide real insight.America is what I call a materialist democracy,  now ruled by the wealthy for the wealthy.

There are so many things wrong in America that it will take another American revolution to fix it 

 

I came to Thailand many decades ago and have watched the country advance to a newly industrialised nation . This didn't happen because Thai people are lazy or without leadership. I try and avoid discussing with Thais things in the country that could and should be improved. After all, no one wants to hear criticism from a non Thai about their own country or how we do it in America. Thais love their country and it is really up to them how they want it to develop and what direction they move the country. One thing, I do hope is that they do not adapt failed systems from the West and try to make Thailand look like the West. America, the UK, Europe and Australia are all developed countries but this development has come at a price that many of its citizens believe is too great a price and seek real change.

 

Thailand is indeed a country that is incredibly difficult to understand unless you live here a long time. Most of us first came here with 'rose colored glasses'-everything is wonderful and the peple are always smiling. My wife told me decades ago that when I learned to speak Thai- I might not like what I heard. Actually, she was right. I found that Thai people are just like people everywhere most are good- others not so. The feeling that everything was always wonderful has been tempered a bit but my dealings with the Thai people which mostly have always been cordial, polite and without major incident.Sometimes, I hear comments that are offensive and irritating but not  as often as I have heard  them in my own country.If I heard these same comments in my own country I would most likely speak up- in Thailand I ignore them and walk on.Once one adapts to the local culture and mores life remains good in Thailand. I prefer my life here and do not miss the Western 'rat race'. Foreigners in Thailand will always complain about this and that but the reality is we just have to live with it.

 

 

 

 

 

[Alive]

I meet plenty of Thais who hate Thailand and would like a better country. It's pretty much only the foreigners who come here with money, pensions or apathy to their financial future who are happy for a while. A lot of them eventually take some sort of hit and start complaining like a lot of the long term folks can. Wherever I go I just see the problems. Here the problems can be disgusting especially if you consider open human rights abuses. But I don't want to ruin the day and of course I can't talk about that here. Just be happy happy happy happy... for now....someday you may understand the other side of Thailand.

[upside]

Funny how Thais wanna get out and farang wanna get in .

[Strange]

8 minutes ago, joeyg said:

I guess my  point is the corruption/exploitation in Thailand is sophomoric compared to the US.

 

Um, no. Not its not. Corruption is EXPECTED here. From cops, to teachers, government employees, everyone. Its literally expected on just about every level. People take jobs with fixed low incomes because they know that there is plenty of money to scam and pocket. I mean the school system here is a money grabbing joke. 

[JLCrab]

I came to Thailand to do avocation NGO-type stuff that I enjoyed and for which I would have more opportunities here than in US. I never went through that enchantment / disenchantment motif. There may be things to criticize but I'm too busy to bother.

Edited October 28, 2016 by JLCrab

[Thaidream]

One thing is certain- that if Thailand adopted all the things that people complain about and try and emulate the West- it will cost a lot of money; prices and wages will increase significantly and the country will become like Singapore. Do we really want this ?  I doubt it and neither do the Thais.

[impulse]

Same reason guys bitch about their wives and women bitch about their husbands just before the divorce.

 

It takes a lot of soul searching to look at the mistakes I've made leading up to being miserable in any situation.  It's much more satisfying to blame external factors rather than just admit I've put myself in whatever situation.

 

And after the divorce, or the repatriation, the jagged edges mellow out.  Stay in that crappy marriage or bad situation and they stay jagged and raw.  Some of the long stay guys I've met here seem to be operating on that last frayed nerve in their body.

[moonseeker]

32 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

I am an ex-expat who returned to live in Australia where I am much happier.

I do not think that I whine about TH in my posts, but I do find many of the stories on TVF to be highly amusing, and post accordingly. When I lived there I did not find these things to be so amusing.

 

  Could not agree more and hope I can make the big step and move to different shores soon, too. "Always smarter in hindsight". Let' see what this discussion provides & has coming...  & Good night! MS>

[kannot]

2 hours ago, lucky11 said:

How wonderful for an American to be telling the truth as to how it is in his own country. You are spot on in all you say!! All of this freedom talk is a load of crap - you don't have any freedoms any more as corporations and the most reviled company in the world (Monsanto) run the show there.

 I can see the population of the US decreasing soon due to the death rate exceeding the birthrate. Big pharma alongside chemical poison manufacturers are helping Bill Gates to achieve his Utopian dream of depopulating the world.  All I can say, is that you people had better start standing up to them , and soon, as your destiny is nearing the point of no return, if it hasn't been reached already that is!! Thailand has a long way to go to match the appalling crimes being thrust upon it's own people, with the governments blessing unbelievably, alarmingly it seems destined not to change whoever gets into power.

the  world  needs  depopulating

[impulse]

Just now, kannot said:

the  world  needs  depopulating

 

The problem being, of course, that the way social Darwinism works, there'd be nothing but butt-munches and despots left.

[Jane Dough]

39 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Still is the greatest country in the world. We pay less tax per person than UK & AU, we can legally protect ourselves up to and including deadly force free of prosecution, our homes are out castles, our property is ours, we can shit talk the government publicly, criticize whatever we want, be whoever we want, just because you are a different race or ethnicity you are still american and protected by all the amendments and not "Farang" substandard people, roads are safer, 911 actually works.... 

 

Healthcare kinda sucks but jeez its not a deal breaker. 

 

Thailand is not better than the USA, but it has its benefits and coolness. Thailand is still third world, the USA is not. 

 

The newness will wear off and Thais will reveal themselves. Some are great, but a lot are not. 

Here is someone who might benefit from taking a look at Mike Moore's Where to invade next? Mr Moore is a patriot who sees through the nonsense that you purvey. See how he counters your point about now taxes. Then you will see why the reality is that US citizens are amongst the poorest people in the "developed" world. 

 

But both America and Thailand have noble ideals. In some areas, however, they have come off the tracks. In differing ways law and its enorcement, is in both countries well messed up. 

[joeyg]

2 hours ago, lucky11 said:

How wonderful for an American to be telling the truth as to how it is in his own country. You are spot on in all you say!! All of this freedom talk is a load of crap - you don't have any freedoms any more as corporations and the most reviled company in the world (Monsanto) run the show there.

 I can see the population of the US decreasing soon due to the death rate exceeding the birthrate. Big pharma alongside chemical poison manufacturers are helping Bill Gates to achieve his Utopian dream of depopulating the world.  All I can say, is that you people had better start standing up to them , and soon, as your destiny is nearing the point of no return, if it hasn't been reached already that is!! Thailand has a long way to go to match the appalling crimes being thrust upon it's own people, with the governments blessing unbelievably, alarmingly it seems destined not to change whoever gets into power.

Thank you.  From your lips to God's ear.  Don't get me wrong.  I was fortunate and had a great life in San Diego.  Hard place to leave really.  Been coming to Thailand since 1971 via US military.  I've lived many places.  San Diego was the best ever.  Thailand very close second.  Your observations are spot on.  Life is short.

[Strange]

2 minutes ago, Jane Dough said:

Here is someone who might benefit from taking a look at Mike Moore's Where to invade next? Mr Moore is a patriot who sees through the nonsense that you purvey. See how he counters your point about now taxes. Then you will see why the reality is that US citizens are amongst the poorest people in the "developed" world. 

 

You think I would say something like I said, and haven't done any reading about the subject? We got stuff to improve but I'm not about to watch a comedy-documentary like its oath.

 

"Poorest people in the developed world"? 

 

You think what I said was nonsense? Untrue? Keep your conspiracy theories to yourself. 

 

Mike Moore says we are the "Poorest people in the world" 

 

Seems Legit, Ill watch a documentary and be enlightened. 

[stephen tracy]

58 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Still is the greatest country in the world. We pay less tax per person than UK & AU, we can legally protect ourselves up to and including deadly force free of prosecution, our homes are out castles, our property is ours, we can shit talk the government publicly, criticize whatever we want, be whoever we want, just because you are a different race or ethnicity you are still american and protected by all the amendments and not "Farang" substandard people, roads are safer, 911 actually works.... 

 

Healthcare kinda sucks but jeez its not a deal breaker. 

 

Thailand is not better than the USA, but it has its benefits and coolness. Thailand is still third world, the USA is not. 

 

The newness will wear off and Thais will reveal themselves. Some are great, but a lot are not. 

"Thailand is still third world, the USA is not."    Debatable

[stephen tracy]

42 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

As an American, I probably criticise my own country more than anyone and realize it is not the same country I was born in and loved. However, the OP is not accurate in his description. There is still much freedom in the US. One can say what is on one's mind without fear of anything. The problem is that much of what is said in the media is based upon how well it will sell products or program time and there are very few real journalists who check facts and provide real insight.America is what I call a materialist democracy,  now ruled by the wealthy for the wealthy.

There are so many things wrong in America that it will take another American revolution to fix it 

 

I came to Thailand many decades ago and have watched the country advance to a newly industrialised nation . This didn't happen because Thai people are lazy or without leadership. I try and avoid discussing with Thais things in the country that could and should be improved. After all, no one wants to hear criticism from a non Thai about their own country or how we do it in America. Thais love their country and it is really up to them how they want it to develop and what direction they move the country. One thing, I do hope is that they do not adapt failed systems from the West and try to make Thailand look like the West. America, the UK, Europe and Australia are all developed countries but this development has come at a price that many of its citizens believe is too great a price and seek real change.

 

Thailand is indeed a country that is incredibly difficult to understand unless you live here a long time. Most of us first came here with 'rose colored glasses'-everything is wonderful and the peple are always smiling. My wife told me decades ago that when I learned to speak Thai- I might not like what I heard. Actually, she was right. I found that Thai people are just like people everywhere most are good- others not so. The feeling that everything was always wonderful has been tempered a bit but my dealings with the Thai people which mostly have always been cordial, polite and without major incident.Sometimes, I hear comments that are offensive and irritating but not  as often as I have heard  them in my own country.If I heard these same comments in my own country I would most likely speak up- in Thailand I ignore them and walk on.Once one adapts to the local culture and mores life remains good in Thailand. I prefer my life here and do not miss the Western 'rat race'. Foreigners in Thailand will always complain about this and that but the reality is we just have to live with it.

 

 

 

 

 

Europe is not actually a country. 

[rijb]

This is not a 'why so much criticism about Thailand' thread.

 

It's just another pathetic 'Thailand is better than my home country' thread.

 

Why are people so desperate to convince others that they made the right decision to move here?

[joeyg]

3 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Criticize where it is deserved.  The current Thai government deserves little praise as does Clinton or Trump.   Leadership world wide is not less than exciting.  The current leader of Hong Kong is gawd awful, but the women running Korea, Taiwan and Burma probably deserve some praise. 

 

Feel lucky to work with Thais in and outside of Thailand.  They are patient, talented, and hardworking.  Thailand has great potential, but highly placed, influential people are holding it back. 

 

Indeed.

 

[joeyg]

2 hours ago, upside said:

One of the dumbest original posts ive read or you're just naive.

 

You wanna compare a first world country to a third ,  seriously  ? 

 

Never been to the usa but it must be a complete shitehole if you compare it as worse than Thailand. 

Read back through the posts, think about what you read and post again.

[joeyg]

2 hours ago, upside said:

Ive heard the usa doesnt treat its expats as refugees like Thailand treats all the farang.

 

If you havent worked out you'll never be welcome you must be wearing horse blinkers.

I work out everyday.  The USA is crushing the middle class and supporting a flood on illegals.  I think 13,000,000 and counting.  Don't get out much do ya?

[Strange]

30 minutes ago, stephen tracy said:

"Thailand is still third world, the USA is not."    Debatable

 

No debate. Sounds like a "Stephen" problem. Deal with it. 

[Strange]

17 minutes ago, joeyg said:

I work out everyday.  The USA is crushing the middle class and supporting a flood on illegals.  I think 13,000,000 and counting.  Don't get out much do ya?

 

You should be thanking the gods you were privileged enough to have a good career and life in the USA, and that it has provided you with the opportunity to retire/live in a foreign country, whilst shit talking it. 

 

If you think the middle class are crushed, there are other first world countries out there that pay more than we do and get less (aside from the healthcare issue) than we do, and hilariously, they don't even realize it. 

 

I agree with you, middle class gets screwed and illegals rewarded, but we have it better than a lot and you shouldn't take that for granted, my friend. 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Strange

[4MyEgo]

4 hours ago, pgrahmm said:

Let's face it....

 

There isn't a country that exists that isn't easy to criticize.....Some are international laughing stocks; either for the running of the country or the behavior of the people in/from a particular country....

 

People come here to Thailand and find it to be a charming place with charming people - for awhile....Partially because they're still in tourist, on demand mode.....Because of that they can only see things as how they think it should be - like a spoiled child....

It can't be, and never will be....Everything here is about 180 off back home & the "honeymoon" phase is gone.....

 

Some people adapt well - some never will....They want everything to adapt to their self important selves .......They don't get that so they whine in their own incompleteness ......Usually alcohol plays a part.....

 

Whiners whine - it's what they do - it's their way of trying to assert their contol over something they cannot control....Most whiners are very manipulative people & whining/bitching/pissing/moaning /woe is me are their tools.....And a little thing is all they need for an opening....They grasp a hold of it - it's their (perceived) strength/ace card.....Although to most it's viewed much differently.....

 

The Thais are a lovely & benign people/culture - easy to accept & get along with.....The country holds a lot of beauty....This makes both an easy target for the whiney bitchers......

 

They actually should go back to where they came from (they're not doing any good for themselves or the Thai's by being here) - but odds are they aren't welcome there as they whined/bitched their way through everybody back home....

 

Thailand, like everywhere else, is not perfect.....But it is light years better than the whiney bitches would have you believe....

 

Unhappy bitchy people are unhappy bitchy people anywhere....

 

Usually LOUD too.......Even at a whisper......

 

 

I dare say you summed it up brilliantly 555

[4MyEgo]

4 hours ago, kannot said:

"The Thais are a lovely & benign people/culture - easy to accept & get along with"

 

I dont find  that so, I started off giving them the benefit  of the doubt, later they proved me wrong.

Ive met a  few who are decent Ive met many who arent, of  course I cant speak for them all and my opinion like yours  is  "just that"

 

You could say they are a mixed bag, like everywhere, some will bite more than you would like them too chew, others will be humble, they are the ones I like, don't forget, education has a lot to do with it IMO, and us being street wise.

[stephen tracy]

12 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

No debate. Sounds like a "Stephen" problem. Deal with it. 

What's a "Stephen" problem?

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, upside said:

One of the dumbest original posts ive read or you're just naive.

 

You wanna compare a first world country to a third ,  seriously  ? 

 

Never been to the usa but it must be a complete shitehole if you compare it as worse than Thailand. 

 

You might as well throw Australia in as well, because it has gone to the dogs, and if you haven't been there, zip it 555

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, upside said:

 

I actually live in both worlds mate . I highly enjoy Thailand  ,  but I'd never give up a first world country for a developing one and id never move full time to a country that treated me like a refugee.

 

My child can choose if she loves the royal family.

 

Call it what you want ,  but its not rocket science.  

 

Hmmmm must be related to georgemandm, and the 183 day rule, its all about the money, money money, best of both worlds, never live in the 3rd world country, then why be here at all, to fleece her for all she has ?

[Strange]

13 minutes ago, stephen tracy said:

27 minutes ago, Strange said:

No debate. Sounds like a "Stephen" problem. Deal with it. 

What's a "Stephen" problem?

 

A "Stephen" problem:

 

YOUR problem. Not mine. You are the one with the issue, not me. 

[joeyg]

2 hours ago, wump said:

What really annoys me is that a large portion of Thais shows no care about people of foreign descent. They use slave ships for fishing and people get murdered on a regular basis. But nobody cares because it's just "dumb, dark-skinned Cambodians". Then there is refugee prison camps in the jungle where people are slaughtered and hold for ransom. Again the population won't care because it's foreigners.

 

What sickens me most is the face thing. Nobody dares to challenge authority and everyone is so proud of their country with all its shortcomings. Speak about any problem and the reply will be that you are free to leave if you don't like it. It's always face face face and never any problem-solving. Let's cover up everything and continue as usual, feeling damn proud in the process 

Again my point is Thailand's "social injustice" and crimes against humanity are nothing compared to those committed my country, the USA.  "Big Brother"  Sophomoric at best.