Water pump problems

[Elvenesse]

Hello,

 

I come from the UK and I don't really understand how my water pump works. It turns on and off a lot, even when no water is being used (in the middle of the night when we're all in bed for instance).

 

A couple of our neighbours have indicated that it might be costing us money and we might have a leak somewhere (there's a small one in one of our bathrooms), but the language barrier prevents an in depth conversation.

 

We unplug the pump a lot of the time, obviously the water pressure drops, and our electricity bill has also dropped by a third, but we're using the air conditioning units less as well.

 

Our landlady doesn't seem to know much about it either, but had a look and said it was fine last time she was at the property. Is it likely to be related to the small leak we have?

[Anythingleft?]

Really need to fix any leaks first then check the pump pressure set points (cut in and cut out), after that make sure all of the lines from the pump are bled of any air

Only the basics but worth trying first before going any deeper

[Strange]

I have the same pressure pump. That pump pulls water from that stainless tank and pressurizes the house. Its already set at a certain pressure and shouldn't need any adjustment. Open a valve in the house and the pressure drops and kicks on, close the valve in the house and pressure spikes and it shuts off. 

 

If everything is setup correctly, that pump should not come on unless a valve is open in the house.

 

A small leak in the bathroom is more than enough to have that little pump kick on for a second when the pressure drops over time. 

 

Should not have to unplug it at all. Mine is hardwired with no plug. 

 

Gotta fix the leak. Just a drip drip drip leak will make it kick on for a sec. 

[Artisi]

"Is it likely to be related to the small leak we have? "   YES!

[petermik]

8 hours ago, Artisi said:

"Is it likely to be related to the small leak we have? "   YES!

My friend is from south Wales and he is a specialist with small leaks

[Artisi]

18 minutes ago, petermik said:

My friend is from south Wales and he is a specialist with small leaks

Will have to pay that one ?

[Gary A]

This may be a good pump but the constant on/off stinks. I have one. The best fix is simply to add a pressure tank. The bigger the better. It is a simple installation.

[Elvenesse]

Thanks for the replies. Sorry for the delay - I thought I was getting email notifications. I guess I'll be asking our landlady to fix the leaks in that case!

[Artisi]

Is the pump fitted with a non- return valve on the inlet to the pump,  I would assume so -  It is possible that the non return valve is leaking back to the supply side causing a drop in pressure.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Artisi

[Elvenesse]

On 06/11/2016 at 7:43 PM, Artisi said:

Is the pump fitted with a non- return valve on the inlet to the pump,  I would assume so -  It is possible that the non return valve is leaking back to the supply side causing a drop in pressure.

 

Got a friend visiting who's a plumber,  I'm sure he'll love to check it out for me. ?

[Strange]

8 minutes ago, Elvenesse said:

 

Got a friend visiting who's a plumber,  I'm sure he'll love to check it out for me. ?

 

Fix the leaks man. Obvious stuff first. 

[Strange]

On 11/6/2016 at 7:43 PM, Artisi said:

Is the pump fitted with a non- return valve on the inlet to the pump,  I would assume so -  It is possible that the non return valve is leaking back to the supply side causing a drop in pressure.

 

They are turn key units and don't require any supplemental check valves out of the box, but of course they can be added in the event of a failure. 

[Strange]

On 11/4/2016 at 10:15 AM, Gary A said:

This may be a good pump but the constant on/off stinks. I have one. The best fix is simply to add a pressure tank. The bigger the better. It is a simple installation.

 

These 'on demand' ones without the little pressure tanks are the best bet that I've found. Constant pressure all the time unless there are 3 people showering and flushing toilets & stuff at the same time. 

 

The Lucky Star type ones with the little pressure tanks surge like a bastard and the pressure switches wear out. 

 

If your talking about the big flowtec pressure tanks, I don't these constant pressure pumps will work very well with that. They don't have enough volume or pressure. Unless we want to get all mad-scientist & stuff then maybe... 

Edited November 7, 2016 by Strange

[Gary A]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

These 'on demand' ones without the little pressure tanks are the best bet that I've found. Constant pressure all the time unless there are 3 people showering and flushing toilets & stuff at the same time. 

 

The Lucky Star type ones with the little pressure tanks surge like a bastard and the pressure switches wear out. 

 

Unless your talking about the big flowtec pressure tanks, I don't these constant pressure pumps will work very well with that. They don't have enough volume or pressure. Unless we want to get all mad-scientist & stuff. 

 

If you have a decent size pressure tank with an air cushion, you can flush the toilet without the pump cycling on and off. With no air cushion pressure tank, the pump will cycle on and off several times.

[Strange]

Just now, Gary A said:

 

If you have a decent size pressure tank with an air cushion, you can flush the toilet without the pump cycling on and off. With no air cushion pressure tank, the pump will cycle on and off several times.

 

Yeah I know man you are 100% correct. I brought this up with several posters in another thread with 4" Franklin Submersible pumps capable of watering 10 Rai, but choose to fill a 1000l tank AND STILL use a pressure pump like in the OP, after their tank. 

 

Got one at the Florida house. Flowtec piece, about 5' tall, with a schrader valve on top for applying air pressure.

 

What I meant was I don't think the constant pressure pumps we all have here are capable of supplying a pressure tank. 

[Charlie Cabana]

I have a Hitachi water pump. The type with a round base that is the pressure tank. My pump cycles on when I'm not using water, and the frequency of the cycling on depends on the temperature. If it's clear and sunny, it will not cycle on from about 10 AM to midnight. Then it will start cycling on every 5 minutes or so. Then from about 7 AM to 10 AM, every interval between cycling on will be progressively longer. Your thoughts?

[Gary A]

Pumps have a check valve built in that prevents the water from feeding back to the source. You should have a foot valve in addition to the built in valve. The foot valve may be redundant but it is cheap and easy insurance.

[Charlie Cabana]

Thank you.

[Charlie Cabana]

Some more detail. Yesterday I got up at 3AM and turned on the pump. I turn it off at night so it does not wake me up. From 3:17:30 until 5:49:02, I did not use any water. From 3:17:30 until 5:49:02 the interval progressively decreased from 5:16 to 4:12. After 9AM until about 5PM, the pump worked normally without cycling on. It was a hot, sunny day. A Hitachi service man came yesterday and could offer no solution. After he left, when the pump started cycling on every 5 minutes at 5PM, I did the following tests. First I turned off the valve on the in pipe. The pump cycled on after 5 minutes. So it seems like another check valve would not do anything. Also the Hitachi check valve operates with a spring. There is no difference-spring or no spring. I've tried both ways. Then I turned off the valve on the out pipe and the pump did not cycle on for 20 minutes. When I opened the valve the pump resumed cyclying on every 5 minutes.

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, Charlie Cabana said:

Then I turned off the valve on the out pipe and the pump did not cycle on for 20 minutes. When I opened the valve the pump resumed cyclying on every 5 minutes.

 

Sounds like you have a leak, weepy toilet valve or similar.

 

Turn off your toilets at the wall and have a hunt for dripping taps.

 

Do you have a pool?

[bankruatsteve]

Or.... are you absolutely sure you are not feeding back to the main when the supply pressure gets low?

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Or.... are you absolutely sure you are not feeding back to the main when the supply pressure gets low?

 

Weepy bypass valve (or even incorrectly plumbed), good thought.

 

Some photos of the pump and its associated plumbing would be useful, just to be sure.

[Artisi]

Simple test. 

Drain the tank, prime the pump run it till is stops, immediately close the valve on the pump discharge. If it holds pressure would seem you have a leak downstream of the pump. 

If it restarts let it run until it stops, immediately shut the valve on the inlet side. It should hold pressure as there is no where for the water to go. If the pump comes online either the discharge valve leaks and you have a downstream leak or the non return valve is faulty and so is the  inlet valve.  I 

[The Fat Controller]

We had the same nightmare !

 

If the pump bladder is holding pressure, then you probably have a leak.

 

Are you on a government water supply and if so, do you have a supply line that completely bypasses the tank and pump ?

 

I only "proved" my leak by making sure the house was only connected to the government water supply by shutting off the tank inlet and pump outlet valves and seeing the meter still going round.

 

That was the easy part, breaking through reinforced concrete and digging to find the 3 branches into the house, then cutting and capping them to find which area the leak was in was no fun at all.

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by The Fat Controller

[Charlie Cabana]

I do not think there are any leaks, because the pattern here is that the pump does not cycle on and off during the warmer parts of the day. I have a recently constructed one-room 27 square meter home. Very simple.

[Wirejerker]

Charlie me thinks your problem has nothing to do with temperature but all things to do with mains pressure. Day time low mains pressure so high differential across check valve forcing it to seal. Night time high mains pressure so low differential across check valve, with less pressure forcing it closed it allows it to leak. With no information on your system and components it's all crystal ball gazing.


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[Charlie Cabana]

'mains pressure'? Is that the pressure in the village water? When I use the pump I turn off the village water. The last photo is my temporary arrangement. I brought the pump wire into my house so I can turn it off and on inside. I can live with this, but I would like to solve the problem. 

[bankruatsteve]

Yes, "main" would be from the village water.  Your photos show a very strange (to me) configuration.  Have you worked out where everything is going?  Do you just have one connection (pipe) to the meter?  If so and that is off and you have no apparent leaks it seems to be a true mystery.

[Artisi]

Is there any demand during the day? 

[Charlie Cabana]

I finished the house over a year ago and added the pump and tank a couple of months ago. My set up was the only way I could do it. It works well except for this mystery. If the electricity is off, I can still use the village water. Also the pump system is independent of the village water and if I'm using the village water, the water does not pass through the pump. The pump only works if I'm using that system. 

Thank you for your input.