Brexit hits speed bump as court rules lawmakers must get say

[Laughing Gravy]

14 minutes ago, Loeilad said:

We hope to reach again a Europe united but purged of the slavery of ancient, classical times, a Europe in which men will be proud to say:

"I am a European".

How peculiar is that? Just an honest question. So which European are you, as this as a country does not exist. As a continent yes. So which part of Europe are you. Out of curiosity.

[Guest]

Brexit vote was never really about Britain exiting EU. It was mostly about getting back to the British politicians who have behaved like children for ages. 

 

Each EU member states have these stupid politicians as well. It's a burden, but not a good reason to burn the bridges to the co-operation, which is helping us. 

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

18 minutes ago, Loeilad said:

We hope to see a Europe where men of every country will think as much of being a European as of belonging to their native land, and that without losing any of their love and loyalty of their birthplace. 

We hope wherever they go in this wide domain, to which we set no limits in the European Continent, they will truly feel:

"Here I am at home. I am a citizen of this country too".

I am now going to be serious and not pedantic. There has never been a European Country. there has always been many countries in Europe. They all have different personalities and languages. In fact all lovely and unique. The lie and rhetoric that you have been fed for the last 40 years, is that we are all the same and European. In fact the last 40 years we can all do trade together and be buddies. The last 20 years we have been fed the lie that we have to behave, abide to the same laws and regulations, and listen to an unelected council in Brussels that tells us what to do. Even worse, many of the countries have been told that you have to have the same currency. Then you have been told you have to take a number of economic migrants from different cultures and religions and if you question it, you will be classed as a racist and xenophobic.

They will then cause chaos in your country and if you complain you are anti European or even against your home nation.

So the populist classes have realized this is rubbish. The USA have just spoken and so did the majority of the UK, in the referendum. It is about time people accepted this.

 

 

[nontabury]

14 minutes ago, Loeilad said:

Personally, I think Brexit should be scrapped and anything that helps towards that is a "good thing".

I think that there are a lot of people who don't understand what the EU is about and prefer to think in terms of conspiracy theories....without actually looking into the practicality of those theories.

 

anyway here's a few words from Churchill (not a hero of mine, but a guy who recognised an good thing when he saw it)...

 

We hope to reach again a Europe united but purged of the slavery of ancient, classical times, a Europe in which men will be proud to say:

"I am a European".

We hope to see a Europe where men of every country will think as much of being a European as of belonging to their native land, and that without losing any of their love and loyalty of their birthplace. 

We hope wherever they go in this wide domain, to which we set no limits in the European Continent, they will truly feel:

"Here I am at home. I am a citizen of this country too".

 

let's not allow Brexit to destroy that.

 

 

Agree, Democracy it's a terrible thing, much better NOT to allow the people to vote.

 Can we go back to the old ways when only the landed gentry decided on the fate of the country and it's inhabitance.

[Laughing Gravy]

15 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Brexit vote was never really about Britain exiting EU. It was mostly about getting back to the British politicians who have behaved like children for ages. 

 

Each EU member states have these stupid politicians as well. It's a burden, but not a good reason to burn the bridges to the co-operation, which is helping us. 

 

 

I think you underestimate the intellect of the UK voter. The UK has tried to work with the EU. Even with the crap PM David Cameron and they didn't accept what we had to offer which was a sell out anyway.The UK voter has given the proverbial finger to the establishment and the EU commission. The arrogance is astounding. They will not change and I look forward to seeing the EU crumble and its demise. France Next.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[Laughing Gravy]

3 hours ago, Donutz said:

Such thins like Turkey joining or an EU army simply won't happen, cannot happen, unless all member states agree. In which case you'd need to direct curses or blessings towards your own parlaiment/government. So rather than fearing 'Brussels'  it's best to keep an eye on national parlaiments and giving them the middle finger if they seem to be about to do something aweful. It's those in Westminster and such that one might wish to fear.

So the EU army is just a secret whisper.. Is someone going to own up and be adult and admit that this is a definite plan. Whichever the political divide you look, at it is there. By the way there is so many more credible sources that admit to the plan.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31796337

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/a-european-army-is-exactly-what-the-eu-and-uk-needs-a7050571.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/731265/EU-Army-Germany-joint-European-force-Donald-Trump-win-Brexit

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3612257/Plans-EU-army-kept-SECRET-British-voters-day-referendum.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11861247/Merkel-expects-Cameron-to-back-EU-army-in-exchange-for-renegotiation.html

https://www.rt.com/uk/344563-eu-army-secret-referendum/

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I am now going to be serious and not pedantic. There has never been a European Country. there has always been many countries in Europe. They all have different personalities and languages. In fact all lovely and unique.

 

I fully agree. EU is a collection of different type of personalities and languages. I think that is a good thing. Each of member state offers something to the collective soup. Each of us offers some new flavours.

 

The problem with the nationalists is that they tend to think that their individual country is perfect. These people simply lack the experience and knowledge about the larger picture.

 

For example northern European people often think British are a lot like French. Stubborn moderately intelligent, often have  great sense of humour. You do offer us good negotiation power when doing deals together.

[sandyf]

9 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

 So you are saying that 600,000 more people voted to remain then go for separation, while I said the figure was just 400,000.    O.K. If you insist I'll concede on this number.

 

   

You really should read the links before you comment.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, oilinki said:

 

I fully agree. EU is a collection of different type of personalities and languages. I think that is a good thing. Each of member state offers something to the collective soup. Each of us offers some new flavours.

 

The problem with the nationalists is that they tend to think that their individual country is perfect. These people simply lack the experience and knowledge about the larger picture.

 

For example northern European people often think British are a lot like French. Stubborn moderately intelligent, often have  great sense of humour. You do offer us good negotiation power when doing deals together.

OK what is wrong in loving and putting your country first (believing they are perfect). What do they lack in experience or intellect. How about they actually just want to put their country first and then care and love their neighbors second.

The only statement I really have a problem with is these people lack the experience and knowledge about the larger picture. Come on. What a statement. The fact that people may have a different view to yours.

[Johnyo]

I think you underestimate the intellect of the UK voter. The UK has tried to work with the EU. Even with the crap PM David Cameron and they didn't accept what we had to offer which was a sell out anyway.The UK voter has given the proverbial finger to the establishment and the EU commission. The arrogance is astounding. They will not change and I look forward to seeing the EU crumble and its demise. France Next

You are really not a very nice person. You won the vote and you will be leaving. To wish for the EUR to crumble and therefore the more than likely problems that could put many who have savings in EUR or live abroad on a EUR pension can only be wished by a miserable human being.

Enjoy your victory and leave others alone.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Laughing Gravy]

Just now, Johnyo said:

 

 

 

 

You are really not a very nice person. You won the vote and you will be leaving. To wish for the EUR to crumble and therefore the more than likely problems that could put many who have savings in EUR or live abroad can only be wished by a miserable human being.

Enjoy your victory and leave others alone.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

Why am I not a nice person. I Love The Germans and Finnish and the French and the other EU countries. You make a bold statement without any evidence. I lived and worked there. I have travelled and stayed in at least 14 other EU countries. I have lived in the Middle East and now Thailand for 15 years plus. So I am happy for each and every country to celebrate and love its culture and religion. I don't believe that  countries should be forced to submit to bullying and cultural diversity, which the EU is doing. I suggest that you go and live around the world and be the globalization citizen you feel you should be. I am the exact opposite to being miserable. I am happy.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

OK what is wrong in loving and putting your country first (believing they are perfect). What do they lack in experience or intellect. How about they actually just want to put their country first and then care and love their neighbors second.

The only statement I really have a problem with is these people lack the experience and knowledge about the larger picture. Come on. What a statement. The fact that people may have a different view to yours.

It's ok to be nationalist in a pub, it's not so good to be one in international scene. That's the difference between Nigel, Boris the great and the better leaders. 

 

It's easy to manipulate people for an while, but not for a longer time. That's what the brexiters did. 

 

The rest of us are and have been thinking how to make our collective soup better for all of us. 

[Laughing Gravy]

Should it be any clearer?

 

"Mr Johnson said: "I would respectfully say to my beloved European friends and colleagues that it's time that we snapped out of the general doom and gloom about the result of this election and collective 'whinge-o-rama' that seems to be going on in some places."

He added: "He is after all a deal maker. He wants to do a free trade deal with the UK.

 

"I believe that this is a great opportunity for us in the UK to build on that relationship with America that is of fundamental economic importance for us but also of great importance for stability and prosperity in the world."

 

http://news.sky.com/story/snap-out-of-donald-trump-doom-and-gloom-says-boris-johnson-10652841

[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, oilinki said:

It's ok to be nationalist in a pub, it's not so good to be one in international scene. That's the difference between Nigel, Boris the great and the better leaders. 

I am a patriot, Not nationalistic at all. I think you will find over the next 12 -18 months the various EU countries will agree with me.. So please tell me, who are the great and better leaders. I am eager to hear.

[Donutz]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I think you underestimate the intellect of the UK voter. The UK has tried to work with the EU. Even with the crap PM David Cameron and they didn't accept what we had to offer which was a sell out anyway.The UK voter has given the proverbial finger to the establishment and the EU commission. The arrogance is astounding. They will not change and I look forward to seeing the EU crumble and its demise. France Next.

The UK tried to work with the EU, the other EU members tried to work with the UK. The UK was rather notorious for wishing things to go mostly their way rather then meeting somewhere halfway on which most members could agree. Such compromises do indeed mean nobody is entirely happy but neither entirely displeased.  But for those members who do not wish to water down their own interests too much, perhaps leaving the EU is better. It's a bit harsh to wish the EU to fall apart though. 

 

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

So the EU army is just a secret whisper.. Is someone going to own up and be adult and admit that this is a definite plan. Whichever the political divide you look, at it is there. By the way there is so many more credible sources that admit to the plan.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31796337

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/a-european-army-is-exactly-what-the-eu-and-uk-needs-a7050571.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/731265/EU-Army-Germany-joint-European-force-Donald-Trump-win-Brexit

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3612257/Plans-EU-army-kept-SECRET-British-voters-day-referendum.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11861247/Merkel-expects-Cameron-to-back-EU-army-in-exchange-for-renegotiation.html

https://www.rt.com/uk/344563-eu-army-secret-referendum/

 

Err? There are talks about it, so it's not secret, nobody here said there were no talks about an EU army. But it won't be happening unless the memberstates of the countries which would make up this army all agree. The EU gets nothing done if a member state does not agree, which means much of the EU are watered down laws and derectives that never entirely please anyone or things simply get shot down. If a memberstate doesn't like the idea of an EU army it won't be part of it, and if or only one or two states like the idea this EU army will not see the light of day and remain just a plan, a dossier collecting dust. The EU luckily isn't a dictatorship, could be more democratic for sure but indirectly and directly it all comes down to the various representatives of individidual governments and the representatives in the EU parlaiment (which the people do elect)  to vote and agree on legislation. Those who believe Brussels is a dictorship are letting themselves be fooled by their national parlaiments or national parties. 

 

Edit: Right now the Dutch minister-president Mark Rutte is on TV, every Friday at 18:30 there is a 15-20 minute interview with the Dutch public news broadcaster. Ofcourse they are talking about Trump and what he said about NATO and what this should mean for the Dutch militairy budget (about 1,3% of GDP, below the agreed upon 2%). The interviewer ask "so should we join an EU army?" and Rutte response that he strongly objects to that idea. No surprise there with the current coalition government (right winged liberal VVD & centrist labour party PvdA). So right now NL would say 'no, no EU army' and NL thus could not be made to sign up for such a a thing. If a the new coalition goverment that will follow after our March 2017 elections, would like the idea of an EU army, it could ofcourse tell in the EU council of ministers that NL would eager to join (rather unlikely though 555). This could ofcourse mean that the Dutch coalition would go against the wishes of a majoritiy of Dutchies but then I'd blame the Dutch goverment rather then 'big evil Brussels'. And if the new coalition also say so, well, NL won't be part of the EU army if it ever comes to that in the next few years. 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Donutz

[Laughing Gravy]

27 minutes ago, Donutz said:

The UK tried to work with the EU, the other EU members tried to work with the UK. The UK was rather notorious for wishing things to go mostly their way rather then meeting somewhere halfway on which most members could agree. Such compromises do indeed mean nobody is entirely happy but neither entirely displeased.  But for those members who do not wish to water down their own interests too much, perhaps leaving the EU is better. It's a bit harsh to wish the EU to fall apart though. 

 

Err? There are talks about it, so it's not secret, nobody here said there were no talks about an EU army. But it won't be happening unless the memberstates of the countries which would make up this army all agree. The EU gets nothing done if a member state does not agree, which means much of the EU are watered down laws and derectives that never entirely please anyone or things simply get shot down. If a memberstate doesn't like the idea of an EU army it won't be part of it, and if or only one or two states like the idea this EU army will not see the light of day and remain just a plan, a dossier collecting dust. The EU luckily isn't a dictatorship, could be more democratic for sure but indirectly and directly it all comes down to the various representatives of individidual governments and the representatives in the EU parlaiment (which the people do elect)  to vote and agree on legislation. Those who believe Brussels is a dictorship are letting themselves be fooled by their national parlaiments or national parties. 

 

Edit: Right now the Dutch minister-president Mark Rutte is on TV, every Friday at 18:30 there is a 15-20 minute interview with the Dutch public news broadcaster. Ofcourse they are talking about Trump and what he said about NATO and what this should mean for the Dutch militairy budget (about 1,3% of GDP, below the agreed upon 2%). The interviewer ask "so should we join an EU army?" and Rutte response that he strongly objects to that idea. No surprise there with the current coalition government (right winged liberal VVD & centrist labour party PvdA). So right now NL would say 'no, no EU army' and NL thus could not be made to sign up for such a a thing. If a the new coalition goverment that will follow after our March 2017 elections, would like the idea of an EU army, it could ofcourse tell in the EU council of ministers that NL would eager to join (rather unlikely though 555). This could ofcourse mean that the Dutch coalition would go against the wishes of a majoritiy of Dutchies but then I'd blame the Dutch goverment rather then 'big evil Brussels'. And if the new coalition also say so, well, NL won't be part of the EU army if it ever comes to that in the next few years. 

So there will be no EU army. I agree there will not be. many here have said it is a fantasy. , I will be back to remind you in case it changes. Personally I think it is the desperate measures of the federalization of the EU. The EU countries will now start to dissociate from the EU. 

[muzmurray]

On 11/9/2016 at 11:37 AM, lostinisaan said:

Brexit Secretary David Davis said Britain's June 23 vote to leave the EU "must be respected."

 

    I hope that British citizens will have to pay more money for any German goods, such as cars, food,high tech, etc..

 

          Somebody should make them understand that such a move will  and must have some negative consequences.

 

You can't have all goodies after you left Europe with its huge problems.

 

         It's like a rat's leaving a sinking boat to me, sorry. 

 

And I hope you enjoy all the extra "refugees", seeing as we will not be taking them anymore.  :-)

[RuamRudy]

 
Having lived too long in Thailand I was unable to vote but tried in vain to glean what was happening from the garbage distributed by both sides in the media.  I paid scant attention to claims about the NHS but from personal experience on visits home was aware of the massive amount of Eastern European immigration that has taken place.  Try getting served by an English person in any hotel, car rental company or restaurant and you start to see just how many jobs have been taken over by immigrants.
 
The worst aspect of the campaign was the failure by the Government to provide any useful information stressing the benefits of remaining and instead relying on fear tactics.  This as much as anything persuaded me that they had nothing good to say about it thus would have made me opt for Brexit to support my own belief that the UK should rule itself and not be governed by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.  Maybe others felt the same way.
 
 

So basically you want the right to live wherever in the world you choose, but at the same time you want to prevent EU nationals having that right if it means that they choose to live in the country that you left many years ago?

[jpinx]

11 hours ago, oilinki said:

 

I fully agree. EU is a collection of different type of personalities and languages. I think that is a good thing. Each of member state offers something to the collective soup. Each of us offers some new flavours.

 

The problem with the nationalists is that they tend to think that their individual country is perfect. These people simply lack the experience and knowledge about the larger picture.

 

For example northern European people often think British are a lot like French. Stubborn moderately intelligent, often have  great sense of humour. You do offer us good negotiation power when doing deals together.

Most people do not mix their tomato soup with their carrot soup because they would end up with a muddy tasteless mess.  Much better to have them individually and enjoy their unique characteristics.

 

No-one thinks their country is perfect.  That is the mind set of the wealthy elite who just assume that the masses of voters think in a certain way, because it suits the purpose.  Nowadays almost everyone travels, so the breadth of their opinion encompasses a lot more than the little corner they might live in.

 

Unless you *are* a north-european (whatever that is?) how can you tell what they think?

[jpinx]

54 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

So basically you want the right to live wherever in the world you choose, but at the same time you want to prevent EU nationals having that right if it means that they choose to live in the country that you left many years ago?

You're mixing "country" with "continent".  Everyone can live in any nation state country if they pass the requirements for entry and working.  The EU's attitude is that the countries under their "command" no longer count.  In that case they should create a nation state called Europstan and have elections.  Let's see how that one plays out :)

[jpinx]

3 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

And I hope you enjoy all the extra "refugees", seeing as we will not be taking them anymore.  :-)

The EU could always do a deal as Oz has done and send them to USA :)

[jpinx]

8 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

So there will be no EU army. I agree there will not be. many here have said it is a fantasy. , I will be back to remind you in case it changes. Personally I think it is the desperate measures of the federalization of the EU. The EU countries will now start to dissociate from the EU. 

For those of us who have read how Germany created a huge war-machine prior to 1934, coming back from their defeat only 16 years before, the EU army proposal, heavily backed by Merkel, sends shivers down the spine.

Edited November 12, 2016 by jpinx

[jpinx]

9 hours ago, Donutz said:

The UK tried to work with the EU, the other EU members tried to work with the UK. The UK was rather notorious for wishing things to go mostly their way rather then meeting somewhere halfway on which most members could agree. Such compromises do indeed mean nobody is entirely happy but neither entirely displeased.  But for those members who do not wish to water down their own interests too much, perhaps leaving the EU is better. It's a bit harsh to wish the EU to fall apart though. 

..............

The UK tried to get better terms several times, considering the amount of money they were pumping into the EU.  The Dublin agreement was meant to do something, but it was in reality a PR exercise to allow Harold Wilson an opportunity to have a referendum which would produce the result he needed to not consult the electorate again, and thereafter the EU basically had a free hand in drafting some of the stupidest regulations ever known - anyone remember "square tomatoes? standard eggs? straight bananas?  

 

Cameron tried the same trick, but fortunately the great unwashed UK electorate said -- "Hang on a minute - - they've tried this trick before!"  ; )

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, jpinx said:

EU basically had a free hand in drafting some of the stupidest regulations ever known - anyone remember "square tomatoes? standard eggs? straight bananas?  

 

You do realise, don't you, that these are all gross misrepresentations of reality, designed to fool those who are naturally indignant about the EU but lack the substance to justify the indignation?

 

[jpinx]

19 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

You do realise, don't you, that these are all gross misrepresentations of reality, designed to fool those who are naturally indignant about the EU but lack the substance to justify the indignation?

 

I hope you can describe your version of reality ? ; )

[jpinx]

Tusk and Junkers are worried  now,,,,,

https://euobserver.com/foreign/135851

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37957673

....All these elections coming up within the EU..

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37935120

... not to mention the possibility of CalExit...

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/10/politics/calexit-donald-trump/index.html

Edited November 12, 2016 by jpinx

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, jpinx said:

I hope you can describe your version of reality ? ; )

 

It's easily explained, as is just-about anything and everything when one drinks the EU kool aid. They have a smartar$e one-size-fits-all answer for everything, just like the EU itself.

[Khun Han]

5 hours ago, jpinx said:

For those of us who have read how Germany created a huge war-machine prior to 1934, coming back from their defeat only 16 years before, the EU army proposal, heavily backed by Merkel, sends shivers down the spine.

 

Europhiles keep their heads determinedly in the sand over Germany's long-term (and long time) ambitions. It's foolishness personified.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Khun Han

[jpinx]

Anyone who refuses to look at the juggernaut of the right-wing resurgence across Europe is in denial. They try to stop anyone else from seeing it, but all the news channels are carrying stories based on the same facts and polls.  2017 could easily be the demise of the EU.  This is not a forecast or a prophecy - just a statement based on the information available.

[Grouse]

16 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I am a patriot, Not nationalistic at all. I think you will find over the next 12 -18 months the various EU countries will agree with me.. So please tell me, who are the great and better leaders. I am eager to hear.

 

Chauvenist is a better word

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04f77j7