Need a Fitter and Turner's advice

[carlyai]

If there are no leaks no problem unless your thread sealant shrinks or breaks down in some way. Gas leaks are nothing to play around with. Up to you, but i would wait and take it back to australia and have it properly done.

Bugger.

Another thought.

1. If I undo the connection and there are no signs of cross threading (metal filings), would you consider it Ok to use a sealant?

2. If I have cross threaded it, or cut another thread in the metal female casing, then what is wrong with that? It would have the same female thread cut from the male thread?

Just asking, not questioning you. ?

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[Hereinthailand]

You can try but I think you need to put it back on the shelf and wait to have it done correctly. The more you mess with it the worse it will get and maybe not fixable, if you bum it up too bad maybe your regulator cannot take the next size hole up ? You have had it ten months ? another month and you can have no worries and a safe !!! working fireplace. Get some damn wood and start a fire outside lol the family are more comfortable with that anyway.

[carlyai]

You can try but I think you need to put it back on the shelf and wait to have it done correctly. The more you mess with it the worse it will get and maybe not fixable, if you bum it up too bad maybe your regulator cannot take the next size hole up ? You have had it ten months ? another month and you can have no worries and a safe !!! working fireplace. Get some damn wood and start a fire outside lol the family are more comfortable with that anyway.

Ok, no more thoughts, just thinking.

I've had it more like 2 years and it did work fine outside..testing.

Thanks again for your input.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[Crossy]

This is the stuff we have, I'm sure if you can get that much thread engaged this would seal it perfectly.

 

 

 

[sappersrest]

You will have to check the threads,the female thread on the gas valve is more likely BSP, and the thread on the male brass fitting is more than likely NSPT,

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME   

The photo shows a picture of a gas valve, used to ignite  the main burner of  the heater, once the thermocouple has been heated to the correct temp.

Ensure the gas bottle pressure regulator is matched to to the pressure data on the gas valve plate.

The pilot light and the burner pressure will need to be set up with a manometer if you do not posses one or know how to use it , The best bet would be to call someone in, or throw it in the bin.

it is not all about checking wether threads leak or not, there are internal seals o rings and jets.

 

Very importantly ensure the room is adequately ventalated in accordance withe manufactures instructions .

Edited November 8, 2016 by sappersrest

[carlyai]

You will have to check the threads,the female thread on the gas valve is more likely BSP, and the thread on the male brass fitting is more than likely NSPT,
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME   
The photo shows a picture of a gas valve, used to ignite  the main burner of  the heater, once the thermocouple has been heated to the correct temp.
Ensure the gas bottle pressure regulator is matched to to the pressure data on the gas valve plate.
The pilot light and the burner pressure will need to be set up with a manometer if you do not posses one or know how to use it , The best bet would be to call someone in, or throw it in the bin.
it is not all about checking wether threads leak or not, there are internal seals o rings and jets.
 
Very importantly ensure the room is adequately ventalated in accordance withe manufactures instructions .

Hi Sappersrest,

I did test run it outside for 4 hours and everything worked fine.

Under Australian law, it is supposed to have an outside vent (chimney), which I had made, but, at the moment I'm going to vent it inside and leave some sliding doors open. Years ago, in Aus we had gas heaters and vented inside with the outside doors open, no problems.

At the moment I couldn't come at drilling some more holes in the cavity wall.

The regulator came with the machine.

Sounds like there is a reason that there are only a couple of people in Thailand with gas log fires. [emoji3]

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[carlyai]

This is the stuff we have, I'm sure if you can get that much thread engaged this would seal it perfectly.
 

 

 

Thanks for that Crossy.

Off to Muk for Loy Kratong so hopefully will try Global there for some.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[sappersrest]

GAS SAFETY WARNING

 

If any one brings into Thailand a product that has run on natural gas in their home country, and wishes to use it on LPG here

Please read the following---

http://www.elgas.com.au/blog/474-converting-lpg-and-natural-gas-appliances

[carlyai]

GAS SAFETY WARNING
 
If any one brings into Thailand a product that has run on natural gas in their home country, and wishes to use it on LPG here
Please read the following---
http://www.elgas.com.au/blog/474-converting-lpg-and-natural-gas-appliances

Hi Sappersrest,

Thanks for your concern.

There are two types of these gas fires that the supplier in China supplies. I bought the LPG model.

As I said, I had it working for 4 hours before, outside, with no problems, so I've run it for about 6 hours all told, but over a year ago. One of those projects....

Hopefully you can help me with a new problem?

Turn on the pilot and light it, good strong 3 flames. [emoji4]

Turn the pilot to 'on' and the burners to 'on', and it all works as it's supposed to [emoji4]....for about 1 to 2 minutes, then this (sounds like a relay) clicks in and shuts it all down. Both the main burner and pilot light go out.

Tried a few times and the same thing happens.

Must be a temperature operated relay there somewhere, cutting in, I think.

I the manual it mentions about the exhaust gas could be a problem, so I have tried it with the 2 side vents open and closed (I think when opened, vented into the room, when closed vented to the flue).

Any ideas ?

(hope it's not like shutting down to stop the big explosion. ?)

The manual mentions about correct position of the logs, I'll try and take them off when it cools down, but I don't think that's the problem.

I think it could be a wiring error, but have checked, seems Ok, except the wire colours aren't the same as in the manual....will have to recheck.





Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[Crossy]

Sounds like a flame-failure device is operating.

 

Look for something poking into the flame area (thermocouple) that has become displaced.

[carlyai]

Sounds like a flame-failure device is operating.
 
Look for something poking into the flame area (thermocouple) that has become displaced.

Will do?

There's a thermocouple that the pilot is supposed to make contact with. The pilot has the 3 flames, but maybe I've moved the thermocouple.

Thanks.

Gonna buy one ?

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[carlyai]

Removed the fire logs, to see if their position was influencing the pilot flame on the thermocouple, and fixed the problem, now burner stays on. Need to reposition the logs and think that will fix the problem.

Not sure how many beers I owe you now. ?


Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[carlyai]

Thanks for that Crossy.

Off to Muk for Loy Kratong so hopefully will try Global there for some.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

Do you use this on your water pipe fittings instead of tape?

One of the next projects is to finish off an irrigation system and build a swimming pool. Would this stuff be better to use on these projects?

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[carlyai]

Wrong again. [emoji21]

The problem is when I replace the glass door.

Seems like it is a venting problem, and with the door off it vents into the room OK, and the heater stays on, but with the door on, even with the top side vents open, it doesn't vent properly, so I would presume that the hot gasses not venting quickly enough cause a heat sensor to operate and shut down the unit.

We don't have any young kids around, and real wood log fires are in an open fireplace, wait for it, so I suppose I could operate it with the door off?

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[Crossy]

9 hours ago, carlyai said:

Do you use this on your water pipe fittings instead of tape?
One of the next projects is to finish off an irrigation system and build a swimming pool. Would this stuff be better to use on these projects?
Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

 

It seems to attack PVC somewhat so I only use it on brass / bronze / iron fittings.

 

There are many similar products that are PVC safe which would likely be more suitable for your project.

[Crossy]

8 hours ago, carlyai said:

Wrong again.

The problem is when I replace the glass door.

Seems like it is a venting problem, and with the door off it vents into the room OK, and the heater stays on, but with the door on, even with the top side vents open, it doesn't vent properly, so I would presume that the hot gasses not venting quickly enough cause a heat sensor to operate and shut down the unit.

We don't have any young kids around, and real wood log fires are in an open fireplace, wait for it, so I suppose I could operate it with the door off?

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

 

I would be very, very wary of venting into the room, as a very minimum you should install a CO detector. Carbon monoxide is a silent killer, don't do it!

 

The correct fix would be to sort the flue so it vents properly to the outside.

 

An exhaust fan at the top of the flue may help at a sensible price.

 

[carlyai]

Yes of course you are correct.

I have the ss flue already built, so will just wait till next year to
finish this project.

I had the fire on for an hour today, with doors and windows open, but that's me, I couldn't leave it like that for the wifey.

I had a bit of a look around for any heat sensors, and there is one inbeded in the side of the machine where the flue is attached.


Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[sipi]

You mentioned earlier that this brass fitting is between the gas supply and the regulator, however it looks like a low pressure fitting between the regulator and the appliance. If the barb tail seals yet the tapered thread doesn't then I am thinking that you are looking at miss-matched threads, and no amount of thread tape or joint compound will help. I would clean it all off and measure both threads with pitch guages or a good steel rule to make sure.           Edit. Now that I have taken the time to look carefully at your photos. Even looking with my failing eyesight on a phone screen, frankly that female thread looks stuffed.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by sipi

[carlyai]

You mentioned earlier that this brass fitting is between the gas supply and the regulator, however it looks like a low pressure fitting between the regulator and the appliance. If the barb tail seals yet the tapered thread doesn't then I am thinking that you are looking at miss-matched threads, and no amount of thread tape or joint compound will help. I would clean it all off and measure both threads with pitch guages or a good steel rule to make sure.           Edit. Now that I have taken the time to look carefully at your photos. Even looking with my failing eyesight on a phone screen, frankly that female thread looks stuffed.
 
 

I think you are correct....nearly stuffed.

I did have someone machine it out, but will have to check when I go back to Aus at Christmas if this really happened.

I think I didn't tighten it enough, this time, due to my past experience of breaking it, so I screwed it in another few threads, tested it and it doesn't leak.

I read up on the tape I used, and this seal should last I feel.

I didn't realise that there are such a wide variation of threads and pitches etc.

It would have been nice if the manufacturer specified the thread size and pitch of the connection, but probably because the Chinese factory that makes these gas log fires, makes them for the Aus market they didn't see the point.

In my next life, if I ever get another one I will get the fitting too.

Thanks for the reply. [emoji3]




Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[sipi]

Good news. Normally low pressure lpg is regulated to 2.75kPa... not even half a psi, so the proper thread tape or a quality sealant would do the job unless either thread is a real mess.

The high pressure side is a different story.

 

 

[carlyai]

Good news. Normally low pressure lpg is regulated to 2.75kPa... not even half a psi, so the proper thread tape or a quality sealant would do the job unless either thread is a real mess.
The high pressure side is a different story.
 
 

Thanks again.

The more I learn the less I know.

Those figures are good to know.

You know there is a lot more behind the connector story than I've told, but I couldn't believe how stupid I was at not finding a simple (I thought) matching thread.

I tried to measure the thread, looked on the internet, and nothing seemed to be the same.

I went to the major shops here in Thailand (global etc ) and bought fittings, but none of them seemed exactly the same. Impossible I thought, so I got on ebay and bought a few from the States, but again they fitted but just a little bit out.

I then wrongly thought that ' this is the way it is'.

I think the post from Sappersrest explained to me about the two different threads.

So now I try and check with TV before I do something I think is not exactly correct.

Thanks again.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[upside]

On Saturday, November 05, 2016 at 7:20 PM, Strange said:

 

Theoretically yes. 

 

But you still have to be able to start the thread and have enough 'meat' engaged to start to 'seat' it all together, without stripping anything. Brass and cast aluminum strip/crack pretty easy. 

 

Its pretty hard to put too much on though. 

 

Yes it is actually. It's 3 wraps for water and 4 times for gas. Ask any plumber/gas fitter. 

 

[Strange]

Just now, upside said:

 

Yes it is actually. It's 3 wraps for water and 4 times for gas. Ask any plumber/gas fitter. 

 

 

I had to choose if you were sarcastic or not.... I chose not. 

 

LMAO they teach people this nonsense? And its followed? The variations in NPT would make that point moot in about 1 second. 

[upside]

16 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

I had to choose if you were sarcastic or not.... I chose not. 

 

LMAO they teach people this nonsense? And its followed? The variations in NPT would make that point moot in about 1 second. 

 

Lol I was thinking exactly the same about your last post. 

 

Picture him wrapping the pipe till it gets 1 turn on. 

[Strange]

2 minutes ago, upside said:

Lol I was thinking exactly the same about your last post. 

 

Picture him wrapping the pipe till it gets 1 turn on. 

 

I was thinking the opposite as I was replying to another poster that said "you can't put too much on" and imagined someone taking it to heart and using half a roll on a 1/2" NPT fitting and complaining why it won't 'fit'

 

Most of this stuff - its hard to explain in words on a forum how things 'feel' by hand when you know you have it right, and experience is the only way to know you got it 'right' 

[upside]

Just now, Strange said:

 

I was thinking the opposite as I was replying to another poster that said "you can't put too much on" and imagined someone taking it to heart and using half a roll on a 1/2" NPT fitting and complaining why it won't 'fit'

 

Most of this stuff - its hard to explain in words on a forum how things 'feel' by hand when you know you have it right, and experience is the only way to know you got it 'right' 

 

Another way is add a rubber washer. 

[Strange]

Just now, upside said:

 

Another way is add a rubber washer. 

 

On tapered pipe threads?

[upside]

3 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

On tapered pipe threads?

 

O ring. 

 

 

[Strange]

15 minutes ago, upside said:

O ring. 

 

Thats not tapered pipe and tapered pipe has no 'seat' for an o-ring. That appears to be the female side of a gas bottle containing flammable/poison gas judging by the left hand thread marks on the valve side. 

 

OP's threads were tapered pipe and use a very slight taper in the tapped area + compression in the threads to seal combined with a thread sealant like PTFE. 

 

Different stuff. 

 

 

EDIT:

 

I haven't read through the thread so I don't know if something was discovered indicating it is not, in fact, tapered pipe, but the brass fitting in the OP is 100% definitely tapered pipe. 

Edited November 12, 2016 by Strange