PM calls for cooperation from pavement vendors

[smutcakes]

I live on Sukhumvit and go to Ploenchit everyday for work. There are food vendors all over from when i go to work to when i go home. If you live on Sukhumvit you can see them all over especially outside Krungthai bank headquarters all day. I cannot even believe you are trying to say there is a curfew? Very odd.

[mcfish]

I'm talking about lower sukhumvit between asoke and Nana where there was extreme congestion . Your talking about a few food carts in a lower tourist area
Still you should have known About the curfew unless you never been to that area before 7


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[smutcakes]

6 minutes ago, mcfish said:

I'm talking about lower sukhumvit between asoke and Nana where there was extreme congestion . Your talking about a few food carts in a lower tourist area
Still you should have known About the curfew unless you never been to that area before 7


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Oh, you are talking about a 400 m stretch of road in Bangkok. I thought we were talking about a Bangkok wide issue.

 

I have not walked between the two stations in the evening for a number of years. I do remember walking through there and finding it a nightmare getting through when it was all blocked up, and generally i like street stalls, food carts etc. I enjoy having them, it is part of BKK life for me.

[mcfish]

 
Oh, you are talking about a 400 m stretch of road in Bangkok. I thought we were talking about a Bangkok wide issue.
 
I have not walked between the two stations in the evening for a number of years. I do remember walking through there and finding it a nightmare getting through when it was all blocked up, and generally i like street stalls, food carts etc. I enjoy having them, it is part of BKK life for me.

I agree with you about wider Bangkok, especially the little old ladies selling chicken and rice or fruit. As long as they are not interfering with foot traffic then leave them be. But that nightmare stretch down Nana way is a whole different scenario

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[metisdead]

A post has been removed:

 

While we make allowances for members who do not speak English as their first language, we expect everyone to make an effort to post in a manner which allows others to understand their posts. Posts full of intentional misspellings, all caps, no caps, l33tspeak, or similar slang may be deleted in order to preserve a standard of readability. This is a forum, not an SMS or Twitter message.

 

 

Some more nonsense posts using SMS/Twitter language has been removed.
 

Edited November 13, 2016 by metisdead
Added footnote.

[fruitman]

It's not only vendors blocking the pavement also the real shops like to occupy the sidewalks or just go sitting there themselves.

 

For me Singapore is a paradise, no lowclass uneducated annoying people on the sidewalks blocking the walkways. Everybody speaks good english, they have very good clean foodcourts and i feel respected as a person to walk there. In BKK i prefer to sit in the skytrain instead of walking around. There are lowhanging sharp objects everywhere, dripping aircons, stinky dirty soidogs, dirty foodvendors and the whole streets are filthy from their garbage. Pavement is broken/missing, mototaxi's driving on sidewalks and pedestrians are in danger all the time while out on the street, ridiculous.

 

There are far too many people in BKK who don't contribute to a better life for others, they all think it's normal to block traffic or even whole roadlanes all day long. This all is setting BKK and Thailand back, decent companies refuse to come here and so do educated people.

 

Bangkok is also far too busy, people who have no job shouldn't hang around but go back where they came from and build a life there. Trafficjam costs us many hours a day, it's unlivable now. Having a car is a mini-prison and all because lowclass taxi-drivers/minivans/bahtbuses just don't care at all about other roadusers. 

 

It's sad nothing is being done, i expected more from the General.

 

 

[dhream]

On 11/12/2016 at 11:12 AM, fforest1 said:

We like street vendors....Yea for street vendors....

No we don't!

The nation is a mess.

NYC proved when you clean up neighbourhoods you reduce crime.

Gangs rent the sidewalks, that's called anarchy, anywhere.

[dhream]

On 11/12/2016 at 6:34 PM, Moonmoon said:

I agree even if i dont agree with the coup n junta. this is 1 good thing that has happen since he took over. the streets with night mrkets r cleaner n theres more room for pedestrian to walk in safety. the traffic is much better after the roads r freed up. the street vendors r being relocated as well. there r many many night train markets being newly opened all over bkk as well. 

 

The payment of bribes to mafia is also real. who gives the authority to mafia to collect money for a space they dont own? 

 

Even in chinatown yaowarat, the police r coming down hard on illegal parking at night for the night markets. they will wheel clamp your vehicle if u park illegally. it used to be cars will park by the road out all 3 lanes creating a jam from midnight. now u have to find proper parking spaces which r available all around in chinatown. 

 

Chinatown now from midnight is less jam with cars n its a good change.

 

Its a good thing n the police r enforcing the traffic rules in the right way n they take no bribes, how do i know, i experienced it 1st hand. just obey the traffic rules n u be alright.

 

What r u trying 2 say? Ur English readz like a teenaged prettys txt screen.

[dhream]

On 11/12/2016 at 11:16 AM, retoohs said:

another vote here for street vendors

No mafia in your Sesame Soi world, I take it?

[dhream]

19 hours ago, smutcakes said:

 

Oh, you are talking about a 400 m stretch of road in Bangkok. I thought we were talking about a Bangkok wide issue.

 

I have not walked between the two stations in the evening for a number of years. I do remember walking through there and finding it a nightmare getting through when it was all blocked up, and generally i like street stalls, food carts etc. I enjoy having them, it is part of BKK life for me.

All well and good, but not when there's a fire or other access emergency. Apart from the blatant rentseeker gangs. so long as Lek can sell her pirated Viagra or fried crickets,  who cares eh?

It is a city wide issue.

Siam Square and Upper Silom are 'Hillsbourgh Stadium' disasters waiting to happen.

[dhream]

19 hours ago, mcfish said:

I agree with you about wider Bangkok, especially the little old ladies selling chicken and rice or fruit. As long as they are not interfering with foot traffic then leave them be. But that nightmare stretch down Nana way is a whole different scenario

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Ever heard of give an inch and they take a mile?

[smutcakes]

8 minutes ago, dhream said:

All well and good, but not when there's a fire or other access emergency. Apart from the blatant rentseeker gangs. so long as Lek can sell her pirated Viagra or fried crickets,  who cares eh?

It is a city wide issue.

Siam Square and Upper Silom are 'Hillsbourgh Stadium' disasters waiting to happen.

 

Stop being so dramatic. Control certain areas like between Asok and Nana sure, but they provide a much needed food service in the city.  The local Thai people use them daily and they are an everyday need for many workers.

[dhream]

20 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

Stop being so dramatic. Control certain areas like between Asok and Nana sure, but they provide a much needed food service in the city.  The local Thai people use them daily and they are an everyday need for many workers.

Ok I won't be dramatic. When the fire trucks can't get to a blaze because human casualties litter the streets from the first panic escape, on a sidewalk where at the best of times its single file each way, you can write a lovely prosaic eulogy, how the dead died happy with a fired chicken leg in their hand.

How is your unicorn today? Trained it to skip over its rainbow yet?

 

[kennw]

On 12/11/2016 at 2:51 PM, mcfish said:

Of courses. The other option was civil war

There are a thousand Thai bashers here that would love to see that.

As far as I'm concerned I hope the military never lose power and keep making sweeping reforms

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Agree and hope that they continue to use a big broom to clean up the house, and are able to chop away at the greatest scourge currently too big to tackle head on. 

[smutcakes]

9 minutes ago, dhream said:

Ok I won't be dramatic. When the fire trucks can't get to a blaze because human casualties litter the streets from the first panic escape, on a sidewalk where at the best of times its single file each way, you can write a lovely prosaic eulogy, how the dead died happy with a fired chicken leg in their hand.

How is your unicorn today? Trained it to skip over its rainbow yet?

 

 

If you need everything ship shape, safety compliant and sterile why bother living in Thailand?

 

Surely you knew what it was like before you came here. Its strange when people complain about lax law enforcement and this type of thing, when half the people who come here do so because it is more relaxed and less strigent than many other countries have become.

[dhream]

On 12/11/2016 at 6:24 PM, chainarong said:

I often think about these vendors and what they are doing now,  their little enterprises have been taken away , a typical Thai knee jerk reaction, why didn't they organize an alternative

You're conflating the issue.

The PRIORITY is safety and convenience for the majority. 

By your logic, lets wonder how all the petty African drug dealers, pickpockets, and corrupt rentseekers will survive now their 'environment' has been removed.

There is nothing to stop these vendors taking their grievances to city hall and getting a dedicated space, such as the Singaporean basement solution, employed all along Orchard Road.

As things were, we had fire traps, gangster landlords, parasite pickpockets, pirate vendors, trash, filth, discarded food scraps, rats, and the shambling bargain hunters all solved in one smart move.

Long may it last!

 

[dhream]

21 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

The people who buy things from them, and therefore encourage them to be there?

 

Just accommodate them better and it's win-win. The vendors are actually a relief from the baking, concrete, wire-strewn environment of a typical Bangkok street. Removing them would make the streets barren and soulless as well.

Until, one day, there is a panic stampede... but let's wring our hands after we've had our cheap pad kapow and sat there on our plastic stool like a hip sweaty lumpen fool "soaking up the *real* asia street life", eh?

[Moonmoon]

3 hours ago, dhream said:

What r u trying 2 say? Ur English readz like a teenaged prettys txt screen.

I feel young again.

[dhream]

4 hours ago, smutcakes said:

 

If you need everything ship shape, safety compliant and sterile why bother living in Thailand?

 

Surely you knew what it was like before you came here. Its strange when people complain about lax law enforcement and this type of thing, when half the people who come here do so because it is more relaxed and less strigent than many other countries have become.

You have a very valid point, I would be lying to say I don't benefit in some way from Thailands 'mai bpen rai' approach to many things, however, I think that long term, the dismal state of infrastructure, and people riding 'motosais' the wrong way with no lights, is not exactly the best way to run things.

I am not a fan of the nanny state, but when it gets to the point of criminals 'renting' the streets, and there are real, serious, multi-casualty, risks that are just laughed off as being 'dramatic', then the authorities are wise to act. Before we do, in fact, have a massive urban tragedy. It does not take much to start a stampede, it happens regularly in India and Saudi at religious pilgrimages, it happens everywhere there are nightclub fires. Most die trying to escape. A vat of hot oil spilling in Silom Road could trigger a panic in that crowd. I have been in a crowd panic (at Notting Hill Carnival as a LEO) and it is the most terrifying thing I have ever experienced, you can FEEL the fear in the air, the screams of people losing their shit does not help, and next thing, you have dead everywhere, all because some two-bit vendors and their criminal landlords are allowed to run amok? No thanks!

PS: Do you know what started the Notting Hill stampede? It is almost comical given where Notting Hill is, it was rain! It started raining, and they all crowded into the Notting Hill tube tunnel/bridge, there were barriers in there for crowd flow control, which then caused a crush, and next thing, it was pure pandemonium. That's how easy it is for things to go horribly wrong, my friend.

Edited November 14, 2016 by dhream

[dhream]

17 hours ago, fruitman said:

It's not only vendors blocking the pavement also the real shops like to occupy the sidewalks or just go sitting there themselves.

 

For me Singapore is a paradise, no lowclass uneducated annoying people on the sidewalks blocking the walkways. Everybody speaks good english, they have very good clean foodcourts and i feel respected as a person to walk there. In BKK i prefer to sit in the skytrain instead of walking around. There are lowhanging sharp objects everywhere, dripping aircons, stinky dirty soidogs, dirty foodvendors and the whole streets are filthy from their garbage. Pavement is broken/missing, mototaxi's driving on sidewalks and pedestrians are in danger all the time while out on the street, ridiculous.

 

There are far too many people in BKK who don't contribute to a better life for others, they all think it's normal to block traffic or even whole roadlanes all day long. This all is setting BKK and Thailand back, decent companies refuse to come here and so do educated people.

 

Bangkok is also far too busy, people who have no job shouldn't hang around but go back where they came from and build a life there. Trafficjam costs us many hours a day, it's unlivable now. Having a car is a mini-prison and all because lowclass taxi-drivers/minivans/bahtbuses just don't care at all about other roadusers. 

 

It's sad nothing is being done, i expected more from the General.

 

 

I kind of agree with you, but your constant referral to 'low class' people sucks. Be grateful you were born with the opportunities life has spread before you, a little humility would be a good thing, do you drive a 'luxury' Mini?

[dhream]

2 hours ago, Moonmoon said:

I feel young again.

Touche! :)

 

[fruitman]

5 minutes ago, dhream said:

I kind of agree with you, but your constant referral to 'low class' people sucks. Be grateful you were born with the opportunities life has spread before you, a little humility would be a good thing, do you drive a 'luxury' Mini?

 

It took more than a decade but now i 'm starting to feel/understand the class system of Thailand/Asia. For me all humans are equal but they also have to respect me as an equal which they don't, especially out there on the streets where the uneducated ones hang around all days.

 

Even in my own house i don't want ANY personell because they have no idea how to behave properly. I'm only talking 'bout not damaging my property and delivering good work (for what i pay them well). Out on the street i expect them to take care of my safety as well and not bringing me in danger all the time which they all do. Why do they put the hotdogs on skewers at the edge of the tables?? They hope somebody will accidently push them off the table so they can charge him/her, that kind of behaviour annoys me. If i happen to be the one who pushes their hotdogs off the table i hope they can spea inlit but they can forget about getting me to pay.

When i loose an eyeball on their umbrella-pins they also won't pay i guarantee you that.

 

Those people just holdup the development of the ones who do invest in their career/education/nice clothes and everything else.

They give BKK a bad name which it doesn't deserve. There are plenty of well behaved good educated hard working thai but they sit in cars/offices all days and leave thailand for a holiday.

 

So yes i'm becoming a snob and i don't care. Took 15 years but now i avoid all the streetvendors and likes. Heck i even avoid the whole streets and take the skytrain/car to the mall or even better to abroad. Even in the mall you meet the uneducated since they work there and have to serve me which they can't. In Singapore they ALL speak fluent english and even know what they're saying...what a relieve!

[ddavidovsky]

25 minutes ago, dhream said:

You have a very valid point, I would be lying to say I don't benefit in some way from Thailands 'mai bpen rai' approach to many things, however, I think that long term, the dismal state of infrastructure, and people riding 'motosais' the wrong way with no lights, is not exactly the best way to run things.

I am not a fan of the nanny state, but when it gets to the point of criminals 'renting' the streets, and there are real, serious, multi-casualty, risks that are just laughed off as being 'dramatic', then the authorities are wise to act. Before we do, in fact, have a massive urban tragedy. It does not take much to start a stampede, it happens regularly in India and Saudi at religious pilgrimages, it happens everywhere there are nightclub fires. Most die trying to escape. A vat of hot oil spilling in Silom Road could trigger a panic in that crowd. I have been in a crowd panic (at Notting Hill Carnival as a LEO) and it is the most terrifying thing I have ever experienced, you can FEEL the fear in the air, the screams of people losing their shit does not help, and next thing, you have dead everywhere, all because some two-bit vendors and their criminal landlords are allowed to run amok? No thanks!

PS: Do you know what started the Notting Hill stampede? It is almost comical given where Notting Hill is, it was rain! It started raining, and they all crowded into the Notting Hill tube tunnel/bridge, there were barriers in there for crowd flow control, which then caused a crush, and next thing, it was pure pandemonium. That's how easy it is for things to go horribly wrong, my friend.

 

You come across as a highly insecure or neurotic person. There is a mild risk in all things in Thailand - including walking down a cluttered street, or getting off a bus in the middle of the road, or trying not to fall in the khlong while getting off a canal boat. Yes, life is a little cheaper here. You have to keep your wits about you - but that rawness is precisely the appeal of it, I guess, to those who like the place and the vibrancy of its streets, as shitty as they are. If you feel insecure about every little thing like this, you won't be happy here.

[Dexlowe]

5 hours ago, smutcakes said:

 

If you need everything ship shape, safety compliant and sterile why bother living in Thailand?

 

Surely you knew what it was like before you came here. Its strange when people complain about lax law enforcement and this type of thing, when half the people who come here do so because it is more relaxed and less strigent than many other countries have become.

 

So, for your own personal and selfish reasons, you are opposed to progress? Bangkok is a major international city, and its people are generally upwardly mobile -- that means making their environment more liveable. I'm sure (from talking to my upwardly mobile  Thai friends) that most city Thais want more order and cleanliness. I don't think they give a toss about you and your touristy visions of chaotic bazaars in the exotic Orient. 

[Dexlowe]

20 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

You come across as a highly insecure or neurotic person.

 

No he doesn't. Not in the slightest. This is a very strange comment.

[fruitman]

1 hour ago, dhream said:

You have a very valid point, I would be lying to say I don't benefit in some way from Thailands 'mai bpen rai' approach to many things, however, I think that long term, the dismal state of infrastructure, and people riding 'motosais' the wrong way with no lights, is not exactly the best way to run things.

I am not a fan of the nanny state, but when it gets to the point of criminals 'renting' the streets, and there are real, serious, multi-casualty, risks that are just laughed off as being 'dramatic', then the authorities are wise to act. Before we do, in fact, have a massive urban tragedy. It does not take much to start a stampede, it happens regularly in India and Saudi at religious pilgrimages, it happens everywhere there are nightclub fires. Most die trying to escape. A vat of hot oil spilling in Silom Road could trigger a panic in that crowd. I have been in a crowd panic (at Notting Hill Carnival as a LEO) and it is the most terrifying thing I have ever experienced, you can FEEL the fear in the air, the screams of people losing their shit does not help, and next thing, you have dead everywhere, all because some two-bit vendors and their criminal landlords are allowed to run amok? No thanks!

PS: Do you know what started the Notting Hill stampede? It is almost comical given where Notting Hill is, it was rain! It started raining, and they all crowded into the Notting Hill tube tunnel/bridge, there were barriers in there for crowd flow control, which then caused a crush, and next thing, it was pure pandemonium. That's how easy it is for things to go horribly wrong, my friend.

 

Exactly, streets and sidewalks especially should be free in case of emergency so people can flee. Luckily that hasn't happened in BKK too often but just one bomb on the right place (or planecrash or fire or big accident/earthquake) can easy cause it. 

 

Also there are just far too many cars on the BKK roads and most have only a driver inside. The developed cities on the world do anything they can to get the cars out of the cities but not in BKK of course. The skytrain is nice but it's impossible/very hard to walk to it at many places. The sidewalks are very bad or full of vendors. On top of that they should be shaded with nice plants who also keep the air clean.

 

Kuala Lumpur, Taipeh, Tokyo, Singapore, Hongkong and so on all can manage to keep their capital livable but of course BKK can't. They would rather build skywalks everywhere instead of cleaning up the sidewalks or get the police to work.

 

Traffic is busy but most congestion is caused by public transport who just park on the road, why not? And when they leave they just push themselves into the qeueu of driving cars, why not? They don't need to wait or even use their blinkers, just push that minivan into the row of cars.

 

I'm happy the general focuses on cleaning up BKK but looking at what he did with the lottery tickets and how it goes now i don't think he'll book much result.

[smutcakes]

55 minutes ago, Dexlowe said:

 

So, for your own personal and selfish reasons, you are opposed to progress? Bangkok is a major international city, and its people are generally upwardly mobile -- that means making their environment more liveable. I'm sure (from talking to my upwardly mobile  Thai friends) that most city Thais want more order and cleanliness. I don't think they give a toss about you and your touristy visions of chaotic bazaars in the exotic Orient. 

 

If the Thais cared about them that much they would do something about them and get rid of them, they don't because they provide a vital cheap service to locals. They use the street stalls daily on the way to work, at lunch and at dinner. I don't use them regularly. And i doubt many Thais who love the street stalls give a toss about your sanitised view about what they should and should not be doing with street stalls which they use everyday. Its not my job to bitch and moan and tell what they should and should not do.

[scorecard]

4 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

If the Thais cared about them that much they would do something about them and get rid of them, they don't because they provide a vital cheap service to locals. They use the street stalls daily on the way to work, at lunch and at dinner. I don't use them regularly. And i doubt many Thais who love the street stalls give a toss about your sanitised view about what they should and should not be doing with street stalls which they use everyday. Its not my job to bitch and moan and tell what they should and should not do.

 

I agree with the comments about many Thais want to see things improve and moving towards international standards.

 

It's also true Thais are generally passive, they have grown up being taught to not cause conflict, not get involved in conflict, to avoid conflict, even small conflict so they find it hard to speak up. This behavior is not going to change quickly. 

[Dexlowe]

7 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

If the Thais cared about them that much they would do something about them and get rid of them

 

Hey, guess what? That's exactly what is happening. And there doesn't seem to be much of a people's movement opposing it. Funny, that. Guess Thais will do what people have been doing for millenia: adapt. And enjoy a slightly less stressful environment, especially for their kids. 

[mcfish]

 
Hey, guess what? That's exactly what is happening. And there doesn't seem to be much of a people's movement opposing it. Funny, that. Guess Thais will do what people have been doing for millenia: adapt. And enjoy a slightly less stressful environment, especially for their kids. 

I don't think he realises that it's already done. Many Farang can be a lot slower than Thais

The farang in denial can always blow an easy 700baht and go to Chang mai via train for a quick fix of nightmare congestion all the way down the main drag of street stalls but allow a good 45 mins of crawling [emoji23]

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