Constant water pump

[wayned]

Somehow/somewhere the out pipe from the tank in your picture #3 is connected to the input pipe of the tank in picture number 5.  There should be a non-return valve on this pipe as shown on Crossy's diagram in post #9, or at least an on/off valve that you have to turn on is you want water  from the street source when the electric is off.

 

The purpose of this valve is to allow you to have water from the street source when the pump is off, no electric.  It allows water to flow one way through the valve into your house plumbing but restricts any back flow into the water source when the pump is running and you house system is pressurized.  If the valve has failed ( or there is no valve, or there is an on/off valve in the on position) the pump will run all of the time constantly pumping water from the big tank right back into the it.  I think that your test has confirmed that this is where your problem is. Do you get water in your house at a reduced pressure when the output of the pump is off?

 

Since there is no non return valve in your picture I think that some digging is in order.  I would start in picture #7 where the pipe on the right goes underground and then seem to emerge on the left and go to the tank.  Which valve did you turn off to stop the water flowing into the tank?  the one on the right in picture 7 or is there another at the elbow in the filler pipe on the left (my picture is fuzzy).

 

Where are you located?  There might be some one nearby that is willing to give you a hand.

Edited November 28, 2016 by wayned

[wayned]

Above should say:  Somehow/somewhere the output pipe from the pump not "out pipe from the tank" in picture #3.

[bankruatsteve]

A pain-in-the-ass solution (hopefully short term) would be to:

 

1.  Turn off the valve at the meter.  Turn off the valve to your tank in.  The pump should run normally.

 

2.  To refill your tank, unplug the pump.  Turn on the valves to your tank in and at the meter.  Your tank should fill until the float engages.  

 

If your mains pressure is sufficient to give you a proper shower, etc. you may as well just leave it that way (#2).  Only use #1 when mains pressure is low.

 

Hope you can sort this out!

[nellyp]

5 hours ago, wayned said:

Above should say:  Somehow/somewhere the output pipe from the pump not "out pipe from the tank" in picture #3.

The tap I turned off was the one on the right of picture 7 which seems to run in line with the mains supply, so I have no idea what it's actual purpose is. Would the pipe going back into the mains supply have to be before this tap as it does in Crossy's diagram? If it does should I actually trace back from it to the mains supply rather than going from the stop tap towards the pipe? When the pump is off we get some water at reduced pressure, but that eventually stops. to find the non return valve I will need to see what they look like first. I am still confused why there is a tap before the tank but so randomly placed.

[nellyp]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

A pain-in-the-ass solution (hopefully short term) would be to:

 

1.  Turn off the valve at the meter.  Turn off the valve to your tank in.  The pump should run normally.

 

2.  To refill your tank, unplug the pump.  Turn on the valves to your tank in and at the meter.  Your tank should fill until the float engages.  

 

If your mains pressure is sufficient to give you a proper shower, etc. you may as well just leave it that way (#2).  Only use #1 when mains pressure is low.

 

Hope you can sort this out!

This is the solution I am using at the moment, but I have turned off the tap before the tank not the one at the meter. By the way there are 2 taps on the meter; one on the way in to it and one on the way out

[bankruatsteve]

8 minutes ago, nellyp said:

This is the solution I am using at the moment, but I have turned off the tap before the tank not the one at the meter. By the way there are 2 taps on the meter; one on the way in to it and one on the way out

 

If you don't turn off the valve at the meter, the mains pressure could become less than the pump is calibrated and then the pump would try to pump out to the "grid".  Two valves on either side of the meter is overkill and only one needs to be closed.  Your "mission" should be to find the connection after pump out back to the mains.  Perhaps there is no valve at all and just done incorrectly?  IE: at some point between the pump and where the pipe enters your house, there should be some junction back to the main.

[bankruatsteve]

Just to throw out another idea...  Could it be that the tank and pump were added as an afterthought?  In that case, the mains might be connected to the house at some other place.  (?)  

[wayned]

A non -return valve (check valve) looks like this It is normally brass but I have seen some that are PVC.

Now I am getting confused , easily done.  It seems that the valve on the right in picture 7 is the "tank valve" in Crossy's diagram.  But I am very curious of what is happening in the meter or so that it disappears underground and since I won;t have to use the pick and shovel I would you dig it up to see what is going on.

 

So lets try this to verify that the pump bypass input is working properly:

1. Turn the valve on the right in picture 7 off.

2. Open a faucet in the house or a hose and let the water run.  As you said the pump should run normally and switch on and off as the pressure builds and cuts off. Let the water run for a few minutes to drain some from the tank. Turn the faucet off and the pump should stop.

3. Turn the valve on the output of the pump off (not just unplug the pump).

4. Turn the valve on the right in picture 7 on.

5. Do you have water running through the ball valve and filling the tank?

6. Turn a faucet on in the house.  Do you have water running out of the faucet at a reduced pressure?

 

If the input bypass is installed correctly if you have water filling the tank then you should also have water running out of the faucet..

[wayned]

To answer your question in post 34, if that valve is the tank shut off valve in Crossy's diagram then yes the "T" with the check valve would be between that valve and the street water supply valve.

[wayned]

Just let me confirm what I think is happening as it's difficult, at least for me, to follow this thread.

1.  Whenever the pump is plugged in it runs all of the time with all of the faucets turned off.  The tank is filling.

2.  With the water turned off at either valve at the meter, the pump runs all of the time with all of the faucets turned off and the tank is refilling.

3.  With the valve on the right in picture #7 turned off, the pump operates normally as the faucets are turned on and off and the tank is not refilling.

4.  If the result of my post #38 is Yes you have water running into the tank and No you do not have water in the house, then you really need to find the non-return valve.

 

All indications to me indicate that the valve is installed backwards not allowing water to bypass the pump to your house and allowing the pump to continuously drain and refill the tank.

[bankruatsteve]

^ - that's the way it looks to me also.  My guess though is that the main connect to the house is either without any valve at all or more than one connection.  And, if underground, could make things tricky.

[wayned]

I don't think that it is either of the above, no valve or double connection.  In post #34 he said that when the pump is turned off they get water at a reduced pressure for a short period of time and then it stops.  That would be the water at pressure in the accumulator tank and it will stop as soon as the pressure bleeds off   The then gets no water.  He would get mains supply uif either the valve was missing or there was a double connection.  I still think that the valve is somewhere and installed bassackwards!

[nellyp]

Here is a picture of my meter. I was surprised there are 2 taps on it. if I turn the one nearest the house off, my tank still fills with water, so I am pretty sure that is messed up. There is a little circle (showing water flow I assume) that was trickling around when I turned the tap off before the main tank, but I am not sure if that was a problem or Ihadn't turned the tap enough I will check that this evening.

Wayned to answer some of your questions.

1. yes the pump runs all of the time and the tank is filling

2. This is true except that the valve at the meter doesn't stop the flow, only the tap before the tank.

3. Yes the pump works fine when the water to the tank is turned off and the tank is not refilling.

I need to check number 38 to see what the answer is

 

[wayned]

If you turn the valve off on the street side of the meter, not the one nearest the house, does the tank continue to fill with water?  If it does open the meter, is it still turning?