Germany: with or without Merkel

[webfact]

Germany: with or without Merkel

Joanna Gill

 

 

BERLIN: -- Angela Merkel’s decision to seek a fourth term as Chancellor has been met with little enthusiasm in Germany.

 

Her announcement was widely expected, but her re-election is not a given.

 

Her image as a liberal anchor in stormy political times is both a blessing and a curse for voters.

 

“I’m ambivalent about it. It’s good because she represents a force for stability in the western world, but on the other hand I’ve been unhappy for a while that she doesn’t really bring in any new ideas for German politics or foreign policy,” said one Munich resident.

 

Though she fails to excite many people at home, a lack of credible alternatives could work in Merkel’s favour. The socialists, currently the junior partners in her coalition, are divided on who to choose as a challenger in 2017.

 

Party leader Sigmar Gabriel, has yet to throw his hat into the ring. While European parliament president Martin Schulz is a possible contender.

 

Analysts largely agree that Merkel is likely to win a fourth-term, but that she faces tough times ahead with difficult international partners in the wake of Brexit and the election of Donald Trump.

 

 

-- © Copyright Euronews 2016-11-22

[klauskunkel]

My idea for her reelection campaign giveaways, she already has the main feature:

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by klauskunkel

[sweatalot]

a politician reigning against the will of the people dares to intend being reelected

- unbelievable

 

and probably she will be reelected

- even more unbelievable

 

if this is democracy ...

Edited November 22, 2016 by sweatalot

[soalbundy]

11 minutes ago, sweatalot said:

a politician reigning against the will of the people dares to intend being reelected

- unbelievable

 

and probably she will be reelected

- even more unbelievable

 

if this is democracy ...

what are you on about, if it is against the will of the people she wont be re-elected

[SgtRock]

Election results in France will play a significant part of the German election result.

 

A Le Pen win will change the mindset of a very large number of voters.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Let's just say I'm glad to be an American.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

Election results in France will play a significant part of the German election result.

 

A Le Pen win will change the mindset of a very large number of voters.

 

Germans voters taking their cue from French election results? Doubt it. More like Germany experiencing somewhat similar social and political conditions, which might lead to changes.

[sweatalot]

52 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

what are you on about, if it is against the will of the people she wont be re-elected

 

Democracy could be a wonderful form of society  ...

 

.... If the majority of people would be well educated, well informed and well intended

 

but what if the majority is not ?

(Btw I am far from apologizing dictatorship, tyranny or their likes)

Edited November 22, 2016 by sweatalot

[SgtRock]

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Germans voters taking their cue from French election results? Doubt it. More like Germany experiencing somewhat similar social and political conditions, which might lead to changes.

 

I fully agree with you on the similar social and political conditions.

 

Where I will disagree with you is that there is now a movement away from the sheeple accepting the status quo and every single political event, that bucks the status quo, between now and the German elections will embolden the sheeple.

[Morch]

Just now, SgtRock said:

 

I fully agree with you on the similar social and political conditions.

 

Where I will disagree with you is that there is now a movement away from the sheeple accepting the status quo and every single political event, that bucks the status quo, between now and the German elections will embolden the sheeple.

 

So everyone not seeing things your way is to be labeled. Gotcha. Next step is to whine when "your" side is labeled, eh?

You can disagree all you like, but would take more than a one liner on a forum to support the idea that the French elections results play a a significant role with regard in the way Germans vote. I think you assume a causal relationship without there necessarily being one.

 

[adhd]

hope the next one will kick all those pseudo refugees trouble makers out asap

 

they brought in hordes of people with no education, different religion, against the will of the people ... hope revolt will come one day, same same as the revolts that took place in those magreb countries

[SgtRock]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

So everyone not seeing things your way is to be labeled. Gotcha. Next step is to whine when "your" side is labeled, eh?

You can disagree all you like, but would take more than a one liner on a forum to support the idea that the French elections results play a a significant role with regard in the way Germans vote. I think you assume a causal relationship without there necessarily being one.

 

 

Morch, you are normally a delight to engage with.

 

I never assumed for one minute that you would take offence at the term '' Sheeple ''.

 

So let me rephrase it. The people who would normally vote for the status quo are no longer doing so, as they are now demanding that the status quo is not working and want change.

 

You do not have to take my one liner as proof of this.

 

Very recent history is proof positive that this is what is happening.

 

The next shining examples of this will come on 04 December when Renzi falls on his sword in Italy and Hofer gets elected in Austria.

 

Again, I will disagree with you. What has just happened and what is about to happen is not a casual relationship. It is a growing mass of people, who previously would vote for the status quo, saying no more and booting the status quo into touch.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

Morch, you are normally a delight to engage with.

 

I never assumed for one minute that you would take offence at the term '' Sheeple ''.

 

So let me rephrase it. The people who would normally vote for the status quo are no longer doing so, as they are now demanding that the status quo is not working and want change.

 

You do not have to take my one liner as proof of this.

 

Very recent history is proof positive that this is what is happening.

 

The next shining examples of this will come on 04 December when Renzi falls on his sword in Italy and Hofer gets elected in Austria.

 

Again, I will disagree with you. What has just happened and what is about to happen is not a casual relationship. It is a growing mass of people, who previously would vote for the status quo, saying no more and booting the status quo into touch.

 

I just find it takes away from arguments when labels are employed. Not exactly to do with PC, more about making discussions possible.

 

There is a general shift to the right, not only in Europe. Other places, might not be "right" per se, but perhaps the ascendance of religious, sectarian or restrictive ideologies. Guess there are a whole lot of factors in play, but to mention a few - a gradual breakdown of social trust in established modes of authority and related bodies, the surge in information technology and its availability, long term fundamental economic principals failing. 

 

Where we differ, it seems, is with regard to seeing the connections. I'd argue that while it could be said there's a global trend, calling it a movement or assuming causality are not accurate descriptions. Guess that's one of the reasons making this trend difficult to oppose.

[SgtRock]

12 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I just find it takes away from arguments when labels are employed. Not exactly to do with PC, more about making discussions possible.

 

There is a general shift to the right, not only in Europe. Other places, might not be "right" per se, but perhaps the ascendance of religious, sectarian or restrictive ideologies. Guess there are a whole lot of factors in play, but to mention a few - a gradual breakdown of social trust in established modes of authority and related bodies, the surge in information technology and its availability, long term fundamental economic principals failing. 

 

Where we differ, it seems, is with regard to seeing the connections. I'd argue that while it could be said there's a global trend, calling it a movement or assuming causality are not accurate descriptions. Guess that's one of the reasons making this trend difficult to oppose.

 

Like this one you mean 

 

Quote

There is a general shift to the right, not only in Europe.

 

I agree with you, just differing angles.

 

There are far too many factors in play, too many to list, one of the reasons that labels get used.

[Mosha]

Elected her not. The damage has been done.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Germans voters taking their cue from French election results? Doubt it. More like Germany experiencing somewhat similar social and political conditions, which might lead to changes.

I doubt that, Germans don't like change,they crave stability and Fr. Merkel is stability, she also has a rare quality in a politician these days, integrity.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, SgtRock said:

Election results in France will play a significant part of the German election result.

 

A Le Pen win will change the mindset of a very large number of voters.

 

No, results of elections in France don't count in the German election result; or visa versa. 

 

If you are suggesting that the results of the French election might influence the German voters then I seriously doubt that per se. Having worked in both France and Germany, I don't think Germans look to the French for political guidance or are easily influenced by them or anyone else for that matter.

 

The phenomenon is more to do with large numbers of people in some countries being fed up with the left / liberal PC politics that have been shoved down their throats for a longtime, regardless of what they actually wanted. Now they have people providing alternatives. Doesn't matter if they like all what their alternatives say, but they want someone who will stick two fingers up to what they perceive as an arrogant, elitist, self interested, bunch of shysters who couldn't give a fig for the electorates wishes and in some cases are trying to ensure the electorate can't really change things.

 

Italy, France, Germany. Will be interesting to see how, if at all, this phenomenon has spread. Bexit was a shock, Trump was a massive shock. Hope we get a few more.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

I doubt that, Germans don't like change,they crave stability and Fr. Merkel is stability, she also has a rare quality in a politician these days, integrity.

 

I don't think there's much integrity in making a unilateral decision to throw open Germany's doors to hordes of illegal migrants, without even consulting her own parliament, and then when the obvious happens try to force other countries to take quotas of those illegal migrants without any consideration of the opinions of those countries' governments or populations wishes and views.

 

And still today she pursues that arrogant dictatorial attitude without ever once admitting let alone apologizing for her stupidity.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I doubt that, Germans don't like change,they crave stability and Fr. Merkel is stability, she also has a rare quality in a politician these days, integrity.

 

I wasn't opining on the next elections results in Germany, but about political trends. It is quite possible that Merkel will win again, but there is no denying that the more of the natives are getting restless.

[Opl]

1 hour ago, SgtRock said:

Election results in France will play a significant part of the German election result.

 

A Le Pen win will change the mindset of a very large number of voters.

Maybe France's next choice ...INSPIRED by Brexit & US  Elections... and this is not Le Pen...

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Opl

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, sweatalot said:

 

Democracy could be a wonderful form of society  ...

 

.... If the majority of people would be well educated, well informed and well intended

 

but what if the majority is not ?

(Btw I am far from apologizing dictatorship, tyranny or their likes)

One would hope that in Europe a majority of people would be well educated and take an interest in politics, having said that i think most people will vote for whoever gives them an advantage or as a means of protest hence the rise of populism, we live in an age of instant gratification,long range thinking isn't in vogue

[SgtRock]

4 minutes ago, Opl said:

Maybe France's next choice ...INSPIRED by Brexit & US  Elections... and this is not Le Pen

 

 

 

 

It may well be that Fillon could well be the next French choice.

 

I was basing my thoughts on French political analysts, commentators and journalists, many of whom are saying that Macron will take many, many votes away from Fillon / Juppe, whoever goes through. 

 

Thus leaving the door wide open for Le Pen.

[thai3]

she's a communist, always was

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I don't think there's much integrity in making a unilateral decision to throw open Germany's doors to hordes of illegal migrants, without even consulting her own parliament, and then when the obvious happens try to force other countries to take quotas of those illegal migrants without any consideration of the opinions of those countries' governments or populations wishes and views.

 

And still today she pursues that arrogant dictatorial attitude without ever once admitting let alone apologizing for her stupidity.

They aren't migrants, a misused word, they are refugees and one would think that once the danger had past they would have to go back. Integrity. yes, because even though she, as an experienced and wily politician, must have known that her policy of helping those in need would be unpopular she stuck to her guns. Fr. Merkel is not the EU,she cant force her views on 27 other countries, the quotas was an EU decision

[thai3]

Not migrants or refugees, almost all are illegal economic chancers who threw away any ID and who lie with their hands out.

Edited November 22, 2016 by thai3

[soalbundy]

Just now, thai3 said:

Not migrants or refugees, almost all are economic chancers who threw away and ID and who lie with their hands out.

I think you would need more proof than just your opinion, fleeing ones own country with children and encountering danger to life smacks to me of desperation.

[Opl]

17 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

It may well be that Fillon could well be the next French choice.

 

I was basing my thoughts on French political analysts, commentators and journalists, many of whom are saying that Macron will take many, many votes away from Fillon / Juppe, whoever goes through. 

 

Thus leaving the door wide open for Le Pen.

 

I understand your thought.

I now believe people - at least in France - may choose someone of experience ( he is a former PM) with a smooth apparence if no charisma - but someone they think is able to protect them. And Fillon recently wrote a book  about " "how to defeat islamic totalitarism",  he is catholic , conservative , is not showing off... and ....... appreciated by Putin

Concerning Angela Merkel, I'm not sure , but the immigration issue will impact the choice, as well as  for France - why would it be different?  

Edited November 22, 2016 by Opl

[Morch]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

I think you would need more proof than just your opinion, fleeing ones own country with children and encountering danger to life smacks to me of desperation.

 

And you'd need more than a feeling to assert that all or most are genuine refugees. Given not all were even properly screened that's quite a stretch.

[SgtRock]

3 minutes ago, Opl said:

 

I understand your thought.

I now believe people - at least in France - may choose someone of experience ( he is a former PM) with a smooth apparence if no charisma - but someone they think is able to protect them. And Fillon recently wrote a book  about Radical Islamism, he is catholic , is not showing off...

 

You might be correct.

 

The flip side could also be that he has been there, done that and now it is time for something totally different.

 

I also believe that one of the game changers might be that Le Pen wants to also withdraw from the EU. It is not something that is being given much media coverage ( as far as I can tell ) so a bit difficult to gauge what the French electorate feels about this.

[Opl]

9 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

You might be correct.

 

The flip side could also be that he has been there, done that and now it is time for something totally different.

 

I also believe that one of the game changers might be that Le Pen wants to also withdraw from the EU. It is not something that is being given much media coverage ( as far as I can tell ) so a bit difficult to gauge what the French electorate feels about this.

 

He was opposed to Maastricht Treaty.

Actually in France, to speak frankly, people are so embarrased with the government in charge , that they will vote for a change, but not for an " aventurous one" - and M. Le Pen has never been in public service - nor can claim to be a successful business woman.

Fillon is offensive in his positions and stays calm - so he reassures people who are fed up with potical weathercocks. He does not behave like a populist - so it would be OK for what french people expect from a state man.  

For Macron, former banker - the fruit is not ripe  

I might be wrong but that how it looks to me today.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Opl