Govt approves 10 year visas for foreigners over 50

[tropo]

27 minutes ago, jjczap said:

 

YES -  you missed one point that was in the Cabinet release -  read it again -  it is a multi entry visa --  3900 * 5 =  19,500 baht savings -  sounds pretty good to me -  plus your #5 is incorrect , you visit immigration for the visa twice in 10 years initial and renewal and with the multi entry and you enjoy to travel how many 90 days would you do in a year? and if you meet the income requirement there is no money tied up   --  again sounds pretty  good to me

 

Have multiple re-entry permits gone up? I thought they were 3800 baht.

[Thaidream]

Here is why I believe it will be a separate Visa:

-It will be offered only to 14 countries

 

-Some of the excluded countries are frequent Thai visitors and I doubt they would be excluded from being able to stay in Thailand on a 1 year extension of stay. This would be somewhat discriminatory and probably cause some reciprocation against Thai citizens

 

-It would limit the pool of  people coming to Thailand for long term stay to just 14 countries- excluding hundreds of millions of people- not a very smart way to market one's country

 

-The purpose of the new Visa was announced as to promote medical tourism for people over 50 thus the large bank deposit requirements and insurance. If one is already ill and they come to Thailand for medical treatment and to live here they need some type of means to do this. Other retiree's don't. They would go to government hospitals or return home for catastrophic coverage under their National health Plan

 

-If by chance the 1 year OA was eliminated that would leave the only retirees in Thailand -those who are already here (except those coming from 14 countries). Since there is a history of grandfathering- I am certain these people will remain under the current or previous financials- they will eventually leave or die which reduces the base even more. At some point that would leave only the medical retirees coming  here which has the making of a huge loss of foreign revenue

 

. While I am not 100% sure of any of this, I am sure that there are not many people who will come to Thailand for retirement at the financial levels suggested.  The  average American retiree does not have 3M Baht sitting free (and I doubt they would sell their American home to get it) nor do they have a monthly income of the equivalent of  100,000 Baht. The reason for this is that people now in the targeted age group starting working when salaries were low and pension programs very limited. Their major asset is in their home or if lucky a 401 retirement plan. Why retire in Thailand when you have to sell your major asset to do it and if your are ill already- your national health plan will cover it all. Again, a very small pool of people from each country.

 

The only advantage to anyone having a  5x5 Visa -10 year validity are those who are single; over age 50 and already in Thailand ; have saved a bunch of money and can let 3M Baht sit in a bank and don't want to go for an extension every year. The majority of those who are already here and married have their money in assets like houses; land; condos; cars etc and do not have extra money lying around to be deposited for a year. In other words; the pool is limited. 

That's my take on the issue.....

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Thaidream

[siam2007]

39 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Here is why I believe it will be a separate Visa:

-It will be offered only to 14 countries

 

 

 

No it is NOT restricted to 14 countries !!! When will people get that???  It only has been reported those countries are the "TARGET GROUP". That does in no way indicate that it is not available to any other nationalities.

Again: TARGET GROUP

 

.

Edited November 28, 2016 by siam2007
yeah

[Thaidream]

Every write up that I have read- indicates it is being offered only to 14 countries. Even if it wasn't- it still limits the potential pool of people based upon my argument. Why limit the pool if your eventual goal is log term tourism . You keep limiting the pool and eventually that's all you are left with. All other long term retirees eventually leave or die and you are left with a small number each year.  

[newnative]

 My Thai partner was at Jomtien Immigration today and he asked about the 10 year visa. He was told it was not going to be implemented any time soon and it would be an option, not a replacement for anything.  

[siam2007]

1 minute ago, newnative said:

 My Thai partner was at Jomtien Immigration today and he asked about the 10 year visa. He was told it was not going to be implemented any time soon and it would be an option, not a replacement for anything.  

 

 

Great news. Though, I am sure if we ask one Thousand immigration officers tomorrow, we will get one thousand different answers

[Thaidream]

Good news from Jomtien- second report  with the same answer. Heading in the right direction. An option makes the most sense.

[mcfish]

 My Thai partner was at Jomtien Immigration today and he asked about the 10 year visa. He was told it was not going to be implemented any time soon and it would be an option, not a replacement for anything.  

Exactly what I was told and reported here, but you can expect the jingy thing and NKM to be along in a flash and tell you that immigration wouldn't know but the low life fear mongers some how do
Thanks for the report

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[newnative]

46 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Here is why I believe it will be a separate Visa:

-It will be offered only to 14 countries

 

-Some of the excluded countries are frequent Thai visitors and I doubt they would be excluded from being able to stay in Thailand on a 1 year extension of stay. This would be somewhat discriminatory and probably cause some reciprocation against Thai citizens

 

-It would limit the pool of  people coming to Thailand for long term stay to just 14 countries- excluding hundreds of millions of people- not a very smart way to market one's country

 

-The purpose of the new Visa was announced as to promote medical tourism for people over 50 thus the large bank deposit requirements and insurance. If one is already ill and they come to Thailand for medical treatment and to live here they need some type of means to do this. Other retiree's don't. They would go to government hospitals or return home for catastrophic coverage under their National health Plan

 

-If by chance the 1 year OA was eliminated that would leave the only retirees in Thailand -those who are already here (except those coming from 14 countries). Since there is a history of grandfathering- I am certain these people will remain under the current or previous financials- they will eventually leave or die which reduces the base even more. At some point that would leave only the medical retirees coming  here which has the making of a huge loss of foreign revenue

 

. While I am not 100% sure of any of this, I am sure that there are not many people who will come to Thailand for retirement at the financial levels suggested.  The  average American retiree does not have 3M Baht sitting free (and I doubt they would sell their American home to get it) nor do they have a monthly income of the equivalent of  100,000 Baht. The reason for this is that people now in the targeted age group starting working when salaries were low and pension programs very limited. Their major asset is in their home or if lucky a 401 retirement plan. Why retire in Thailand when you have to sell your major asset to do it and if your are ill already- your national health plan will cover it all. Again, a very small pool of people from each country.

 

The only advantage to anyone having a  5x5 Visa -10 year validity are those who are single; over age 50 and already in Thailand ; have saved a bunch of money and can let 3M Baht sit in a bank and don't want to go for an extension every year. The majority of those who are already here and married have their money in assets like houses; land; condos; cars etc and do not have extra money lying around to be deposited for a year. In other words; the pool is limited. 

That's my take on the issue.....

 

Totally agree. It's only available in 14 countries--no way is Thailand going to offend all the other countries, including China and Russia.  I think we have 75 pages of comments because many are treating it like it's a big change that might be putting their retirement here at risk while Thailand sees it as not a big deal--just offering some countries a long-term visa OPTION--which Chiang Mai expats were clamoring for at some big meeting they had with Thai officials.  From what my partner said, Jomtien Immigration didn't think it was any big deal, either.

[Jingthing]

I'm still WAITING for the answers to two basic questions which nobody here can actually answer definitively. Is this new thing called an O-A visa? Will it replace O-A visas? 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Jingthing

[Thaidream]

I don't think we are going to get that answer officially for a long time....or never if it isn't implemented.

[mcfish]

I'm still WAITING for the answers to two basic questions which nobody here can actually answer definitively. Is this new thing called an O-A visa? Will it replace O-A visas? 

Get off your butt and go and ask yourself!! I will throw in your baht bus fee, pm you're bank account, but stop boring us with your drivel.



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[Thaidream]

The best place to get any answer is always the place that has to carry the implementation- Immigration. We already have 2 positive answers from 2 different people. Jomtien and Chaengwattana are the 2 most reliable IO's in the system. I am sure as time goes by we will get further response So far, we have had positive signs and positive logic. Thanks to those who shared  what Immigration said.

[newnative]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I'm still WAITING for the answers to two  basic questions which nobody here can actually answer definitively. Is this new thing called an O-A visa. Will it replace O-A visas? 

Here's what I don't understand.  If you're REALLY concerned, and I mean SO concerned that you're thinking about packing your bags and selling your property, as some have posted, wouldn't you march yourself down to your Immigration office first thing this morning and get some answers?  And, yes, they WILL be able to tell you whether you are being kicked out or not.  That's the question to ask.  That and has anything changed with your current income/bank requirements.  Maybe it's just more fun torturing yourself, scaremongering here,  and wringing those poor hands.  Stop WAITING and go get some answers if you're uncertain.

[i claudius]

I have said from the outset that most on here are just scaremongering,does anyone really think that some poor guy who does not earn 100000 baht a month or has 3 mill to put in a Thai bank ,but has been married with kids for many years ,is going to be kicked out? Can you imagine the worlds press filming poor 70 year old Percy the pensioner leaving on a jet plane while his wife and crying kids are waving good by for ever,great publicity for Thailand. The land of smiles, and even better as he lands at Heathrow ,no home to go to and has to be housed ,multiply by a thousand or so ,

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[Luckysilk]

32 minutes ago, mcfish said:

Get off your butt and go and ask yourself!! I will throw in your baht bus fee, pm you're bank account, but stop boring us with your drivel.



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+ 1

 

 

[Jingthing]

52 minutes ago, newnative said:

Here's what I don't understand.  If you're REALLY concerned, and I mean SO concerned that you're thinking about packing your bags and selling your property, as some have posted, wouldn't you march yourself down to your Immigration office first thing this morning and get some answers?  And, yes, they WILL be able to tell you whether you are being kicked out or not.  That's the question to ask.  That and has anything changed with your current income/bank requirements.  Maybe it's just more fun torturing yourself, scaremongering here,  and wringing those poor hands.  Stop WAITING and go get some answers if you're uncertain.

 

You're putting words and thoughts in my mouth that I haven't expressed.

 

My POV all along has been wait and see how this HALF BAKED thing actually shakes out. Yes, I'm rejecting ALL VOICES here of full confidence that they really have the definite final answers yet.

 

Some of the guesses and opinions will of course turn out to be CORRECT, but we can't judge YET about that UNTIL the time comes that his change is FINISHED and starts to be implemented.

 

As far as local immigration officers, how would they DEFINITELY know the details about something that isn't FINISHED yet? Yes, you can trust them for current applications based on current law and current enforcement policies, but this thing ... TOO EARLY. 

 

If this is about O-A visas, where do you think O-A visas are issued? In Thailand?!? Since when do Thai immigration officers know much about what happens in Thai embassies abroad or vice versa? Answer ... they don't.

 

So many people are jumping the gun expecting final answers  before that's humanly possible.

 

Our top visa guru HERE, Ubonjoe, doesn't know DEFINITELY yet either. I posted about that. Why doesn't he know for sure YET? He posted an OPINION and made it clear that like all of us, he's WAITING FOR MORE DETAILS.

 

Because again, this change is HALF BAKED. Not finished. Details not implemented yet. 

 

We'll know when we know. That time isn't NOW. 100 percent certainty about this can't be RUSHED, and asking local immigration officers at this point in time cannot provide 100 percent certainty.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Jingthing

[Thaidream]

Actually the Immigration Offices would know if there were any changes to extensions that they have to plan for because they would have to implement these changes so if I want an answer to a potential policy or requirement change- I would go to Immigration. They may not have the exact details but they would know if there was a change in the wind. The current report from Jomtien makes sense to me- no known changes in the wind and they believe implementation for a new Visa is sometime off in the future.  Since there has to be co-ordination between the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Visa guidelines for Embassy/Consulates abroad) and the Ministry of Interior (Police Immigration -rules-guidelines-requirements) I am of the opinion this may take some time to implement. In addition- the Ministry of Tourism and Health may be involved for marketing and health issues. I seriously doubt that we will see anything in writing for a long time. If someone doesn't want to believe Immigration Officers that is up to them. Who else would you ask?

[Jingthing]

Multiple issues here.

As it's not finished, and the actual date of implementation is not determined, IF it actually becomes implemented law, yes they would know that it's not yet implemented law. But that's something we ALREADY know!  

That supports my point even more.

We can't be giving people DEFINITIVE advice about this until it actually happens. NOT YET. 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Jingthing

[newnative]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Hold on there, dude!

You're putting words and thoughts in my mouth that I haven't expressed, so back off!

My POV all along has been wait and see how this HALF BAKED thing actually shakes out. Yes, I'm aggressively rejecting ALL VOICES here of full confidence that they really have the answers yet. Because they bloody don't.

As far as local immigration officers, they don't either! If this is about O-A visas, where do you think O-A visas are issued? In Thailand?!? Since when do Thai immigration officers know much about what happens in Thai embassies abroad or vice versa. Answer ... they don't.

So many people are jumping the gun expecting final answers  before that's even possible.

So stop BAITING me to waste my time asking questions of people that wouldn't know definitely about this YET.

Our top visa guru HERE, Ubonjoe, doesn't know DEFINITELY yet either. I posted about that. Why doesn't he know for sure YET? Because again, this change is HALF BAKED. Not finished. Details not implemented yet.  Did anyone wonder why he hasn't posted here with definitive answers, instead of opinions? Because he doesn't deal in FAKING definitive answers when that is not humanly POSSIBLE. 

We'll know when we know. That time isn't NOW. 

You're missing my point. The 75 pages of posts are mostly from retired people here in Thailand--most of whom seem to be distressed regarding their retirement status and what's going to happen to them.  This really isn't about Thai embassies abroad--we're here already.  My point is if you or anyone else is worried, plant yourself at the Immigration Office, tell them what your status is, and ask if you are being kicked out or if there are any changes to your requirements.  That's what it all boils down to.   And, yes, the Immigration office will be able to answer these routine questions. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, newnative said:

You're missing my point. The 75 pages of posts are mostly from retired people here in Thailand--most of whom seem to be distressed regarding their retirement status and what's going to happen to them.  This really isn't about Thai embassies abroad--we're here already.  My point is if you or anyone else is worried, plant yourself at the Immigration Office, tell them what your status is, and ask if you are being kicked out or if there are any changes to your requirements.  That's what it all boils down to.   And, yes, the Immigration office will be able to answer these routine questions. 

Agree to disagree. I maintain until this is finished law and begins to be implemented, it's a waste of time for both expats and officers to bother them with questions. It's cool that people have posted the responses, but front line officers do NOT finalize the details of national level police orders, and those details do NOT exist yet.  

For those that want to waste their time ... ask them that ... is this law finalized yet and all final details published yet? Shocking if they said yes, because then we could definitely interpret this here already. 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Jingthing

[Thaidream]

In addition to what I have already said onhis subject- I firmly believe the word was put out on this  this in advance of the actual implementation to get a reaction from those who would be the target audience. I am certain certain officials are monitoring various sites and note the reaction.

 

I also believe that the line IOs do have some basic knowledge of what is being proposed because these type of things have to be implemented by the line Officer. They may not know the exact details but they have a good idea of the drift. I personally will believe what they say until proven otherwise.

[Jingthing]

That's fine. You seem to be focused only on your personal situation, but I'm more interested in how this fits into the entire retirement status system. Is it TRULY and FULLY entirely separate from the current system? Or not? As such, it still hasn't been broadcast whether this new thing will be called O-A visa and will it replace the current O-A visa. It would be  very odd if there are two levels of O-A visas ... but of course, there could be, that would just need to be written in the law.

 

 I have posted before why I think that's significant for the total system. As it's not done yet, I wouldn't bother asking front line officers about this, especially considering O-A visas at this time are only issued abroad. 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Jingthing

[boomerangutang]

       I've often had experiences with Thais, that go something like this, "If the farang will spend more money, then I'll up the ante, and get more."  The context here is visa fees, but also relates to insurance company fees and banks.   All three entities:  Imm Dept., insurance companies (plus medical services), and banks continually want to make more money.  

 

        Let's assume the new visa idea is an add-on option, and doesn't supersede the current O-A one year visa.  It's now looking like that's our current scenario.  But then later, Imm dept (and insurance dealers + banks) realize many rich farang actually like the idea of paying more money and, to take it a step further;  encourage Imm Dept to cater to rich folks,  ........then Imm heads may decide to cull the current one year visa, and please the rich farang who are fine with higher costs, and such.   

 

        It reminds me of a Swiss man who was advising (in an unofficial capacity) TAT about what sorts of facilities TAT should focus its sales campaigns upon.  The farang considered himself high class, so he was advising TAT to cater to wealthy farang, and not get concerned about non-wealthy or backpacking youth.   I don't agree with that elitist attitude.  I think TAT and, in a roundabout way, Thai Imm heads should be inclusive - and not base their decisions on trying to soak as many dollars from tourists and resident-wannabes, as possible.

[Usernames]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's fine. You seem to be focused only on your personal situation, but I'm more interested in how this fits into the entire retirement status system. Is it TRULY and FULLY entirely separate from the current system? Or not? As such, it still hasn't been broadcast whether this new thing will be called O-A visa and will it replace the current O-A visa. I have posted before why I think that's significant for the total system. As it's not done yet, I wouldn't bother asking front line officers about this, especially considering O-A visas at this time are only issued abroad. 

 

Laborious and repetitive.  But you're almost at 28,000 posts.  This topic alone might get you there.

[Wilsonandson]

This is the reason for the new visa. Old age pensioners coming to Thailand to die instead of going to an old people home in their own country.
Look at this care home in Chiang Mai. This was in a German newspaper today. It was opened back in 2012. Thai visa was there to welcome them with this thread.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/594074-retirement-care-facility-to-open-in-chiang-mai/

[dhream]

Maybe they read "The Lean Start Up" and put out this visa concept at its most basic iteration, they then 'pivot' as the user feedback comes in, to quickly and accurately create a polished product people will buy?

....Naaah!

That would mean actually reading a book!

[Wilsonandson]

http://www.careresortchiangmai.com/index.php?viewID=7
Quote:-
Visas
Similar to most countries, Thailand has a requirement for visas for non-Thai nationals. The Thai retirement visa is a generally straightforward process although it does require the applicant to have a level of financial support. We can assist with all visa requirements. Once the visa is obtained in Thailand there is no requirement to leave the country on a timed basis but it does require an annual renewal.

[dhream]

18 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

       I've often had experiences with Thais, that go something like this, "If the farang will spend more money, then I'll up the ante, and get more."  The context here is visa fees, but also relates to insurance company fees and banks.   All three entities:  Imm Dept., insurance companies (plus medical services), and banks continually want to make more money.  

 

        Let's assume the new visa idea is an add-on option, and doesn't supersede the current O-A one year visa.  It's now looking like that's our current scenario.  But then later, Imm dept (and insurance dealers + banks) realize many rich farang actually like the idea of paying more money and, to take it a step further;  encourage Imm Dept to cater to rich folks,  ........then Imm heads may decide to cull the current one year visa, and please the rich farang who are fine with higher costs, and such.   

 

        It reminds me of a Swiss man who was advising (in an unofficial capacity) TAT about what sorts of facilities TAT should focus its sales campaigns upon.  The farang considered himself high class, so he was advising TAT to cater to wealthy farang, and not get concerned about non-wealthy or backpacking youth.   I don't agree with that elitist attitude.  I think TAT and, in a roundabout way, Thai Imm heads should be inclusive - and not base their decisions on trying to soak as many dollars from tourists and resident-wannabes, as possible.

Never mind that Thailands tourism industry seems to get the bulk of its business from the great unwashed of every nation. Now I am guessing of course, but it would be interesting to see how the revenue breaks down from super luxury, all the way thru to packbackers. Bearing in mind super luxury also have super overhead. 

It is doubtful the Thai ministry of silly walks has such a breakdown, giving the hamfisted way EVERYTHING is done here.

So if the idea is just "How much more can we make with a rich guys in poor guys out" policy, then it could seriously backfire.

Super luxury people do not keep tuk tuks, bargirls, backpacker hovels, jetski thugs, budget airlines, and even mid range resorts in business.

All these folks rely on 'regular' tourism to make any money worth speaking of. 

having said that. It is looking more and more like a poorly marketed palliative care/hospice/geriatric medical visa for relatively wealthy wheezers without family, sent out here to die at less cost to their governments than back home. But then again I'm trying to make sense of what is basically a shambles!

[Wilsonandson]

Retirement facility in Phuket
http://www.carewell-service.com/useful-information/health-insurance
Health insurance no problem
Quote:-
However, many national and international insurance companies do offer various levels of travel insurance which can prove to be inexpensive. These policies can offer a wide range of coverage periods from 30 days to 5 years