What has happened to the high season?

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Where I live there have been a few small cafes opened up and loads of coffee shops and a handful of legit massage parlours that most of these massage shops owners suddenly decide they are wasting their time and close within 6 months.

 

What amazes me is that I never see any customers in the cafes and coffee shops and wonder why do they bother and how do they manage to stay open? All the Thai noodle cafes and stalls are closed by 4.00 pm. There are a couple of spit and sawdust local Thai shops that serve cheap whiskey at 20 baht a shot where a few locals sit round a table and have a chat, but these too are closed by 8.30 pm. After that the area becomes a ghost town, it becomes possible to hear a pin drop a mile away. And I live only 14 KL from the town.

 

Just back in from a few hours at 'the village' close to tintins (had a few SUVs parked there and a few tables occupied on my way out) and heres what I mean.. 

 

This place has craft / import bottles starting at 200 ish and going up rapidly.. early on a a couple of non cheap expats (fortuna or pajaro types) were there.. I of course lo-so 'ed it on a scoot.. but then a couple of tables of locals start filling the place.. a few new beemers.. then a new Merc e class coupe.. 

 

By the time I and my cheap mates, barely spending 200 a bottle, left.. Me on my PCX, mates in a lowly ford.. the car park is BMW, an E coupe merc, a mini SUV merc (GLC or whats that new mini soft road thing).. and half thier garden has customers.. None of these folks are concerned about the exchange rate.. 

 

This is a nowhere bar.. in a village back rd.. 15 plus kms from downtown or niman.. Hes got tables of Thais, 150b a salad or chicken wings.. 200 - 400 for mid size dishes.. ordering up a storm.. In the middle of nowhere !!!

 

Theres LOADS of money here is the local market.. I think its great becauses these folks will be demanding of services and quality so will help us all reduce those low end frustrations (at the same place my mate was singing the praises of a local home design interior design crowd) but the rapid pace of change is not going to be helpful to the fixed pension crowd... 

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

And I live only 14 KL from the town.

 

Which direction ?? 

[Thaiwrath]

People rabbit on about Thais in posh cars going in drinking/eating establishments.

A lot of these self professed hi-so's take their own spirits, normally a cheap brand whisky.

So they pay over the odds for mixers and ice, but believe me, the percentage profit margin is high, but if you relied on these types to pay your overheads, it ain't going to happen, unless you have an outside Thai venue with seating for literally hundreds. 

[elektrified]

On 12/1/2016 at 4:03 PM, WinnieTheKhwai said:

This topic feels like an alternate world.. I saw the headline and thought it would be about the large numbers of people around town.    It's a GREAT high season, in face I didn't even notice much of a low season, at all.

 

A smattering of gems:

 

 

Do you believe Flightradar24.com? 

 

Right?  Right.

 

 

Just in the tourist area there are 4-5 places that open very very late (early).  It's well and truly light when I still see some people stumble out of there.  Spotlight is now closing at 4am.  There's a new dance club (renovated Lucky Bar/Club) that stays open super late and is right on the moat.  And many many more.

 

Chiang Mai never sleeps!

 

 

So logically, either all of those people building hotels are stupid, or you missed something.  (And I know which one it is.)

 

I'm scrambling myself to grab more property;  in a couple years I will be saying here on this forum how low prices used to be in 2016 (relatively speaking) and nobody will believe me.    It's like free money flying in at CNX every 2-3 minutes and it needs grabbing!

 

(Even more so as it appears that civil war isn't going to break out.)

google Engine Failure Bangkok Post for a dose of reality.

[cyberfarang]

27 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

Just back in from a few hours at 'the village' close to tintins (had a few SUVs parked there and a few tables occupied on my way out) and heres what I mean.. 

 

This place has craft / import bottles starting at 200 ish and going up rapidly.. early on a a couple of non cheap expats (fortuna or pajaro types) were there.. I of course lo-so 'ed it on a scoot.. but then a couple of tables of locals start filling the place.. a few new beemers.. then a new Merc e class coupe.. 

 

By the time I and my cheap mates, barely spending 200 a bottle, left.. Me on my PCX, mates in a lowly ford.. the car park is BMW, an E coupe merc, a mini SUV merc (GLC or whats that new mini soft road thing).. and half thier garden has customers.. None of these folks are concerned about the exchange rate.. 

 

This is a nowhere bar.. in a village back rd.. 15 plus kms from downtown or niman.. Hes got tables of Thais, 150b a salad or chicken wings.. 200 - 400 for mid size dishes.. ordering up a storm.. In the middle of nowhere !!!

 

Theres LOADS of money here is the local market.. I think its great becauses these folks will be demanding of services and quality so will help us all reduce those low end frustrations (at the same place my mate was singing the praises of a local home design interior design crowd) but the rapid pace of change is not going to be helpful to the fixed pension crowd... 

Speaking from experience and having been in the business of selling expensive items before I retired, if someone, a company or a service is offering something that people really want, customers will always find the money somehow, providing the amenities and attractions are there where customers can spend their money. Limitations on nightlife and charging top rates for third rate amenities is bad business practice and have no idea what the motives are of whoever is in charge and makes the rules.

 

I live in the deepest, darkest depths of Hang Dong.

[mcfish]

Just got back from walking st and it's busy, the Baht buses to jomtien are overly full.. All of them but it annoys me to see dozens of flag following Chinese groups and to many buses.. I thought the government got rid of them?

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[cyberfarang]

On 01/12/2016 at 4:03 PM, WinnieTheKhwai said:

This topic feels like an alternate world.. I saw the headline and thought it would be about the large numbers of people around town.    It's a GREAT high season, in face I didn't even notice much of a low season, at all.

 

A smattering of gems:

 

 

Do you believe Flightradar24.com? 

 

Right?  Right.

 

 

Just in the tourist area there are 4-5 places that open very very late (early).  It's well and truly light when I still see some people stumble out of there.  Spotlight is now closing at 4am.  There's a new dance club (renovated Lucky Bar/Club) that stays open super late and is right on the moat.  And many many more.

 

Chiang Mai never sleeps!

 

 

So logically, either all of those people building hotels are stupid, or you missed something.  (And I know which one it is.)

 

I'm scrambling myself to grab more property;  in a couple years I will be saying here on this forum how low prices used to be in 2016 (relatively speaking) and nobody will believe me.    It's like free money flying in at CNX every 2-3 minutes and it needs grabbing!

 

(Even more so as it appears that civil war isn't going to break out.)

Very interesting. Maybe you should write a book; The Optimistic Tourist Guide To Chiang Mai, or maybe start your own business; walking tours around all the action areas of Chiang Mai.

[LivinLOS]

10 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

People rabbit on about Thais in posh cars going in drinking/eating establishments.

A lot of these self professed hi-so's take their own spirits, normally a cheap brand whisky.

So they pay over the odds for mixers and ice, but believe me, the percentage profit margin is high, but if you relied on these types to pay your overheads, it ain't going to happen, unless you have an outside Thai venue with seating for literally hundreds. 

 

They were into the wine list from what I could see.. No one in this well dressed / well heeled lot were drinking pipers and soda.. 

 

Thailand is a very unequal society, theres a large section of genuinely poor, and a small % of very rich and it used to be not much middle class.. Looks to me like the middle class is growing (along with their debt) and the very rich also. 

 

I think perhaps 'some' expats dont like to see the wealth dynamics changing.. After all it upsets their applecart, reduces thier importance and shows how the great white bwana is not really the neo colonial master that a modest pension would have given 10 or 15 years back. They would rather believe theres only ill travelled peasant farmers earning 10k a month and thats it. The recent reaction to the (possible) introduction of the 100k a month affluent retiree visa really nails that. 

[WinnieTheKhwai]

On 12/2/2016 at 1:48 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not like there are any viable alternatives to Loi Kroh for "nightlife", other than eating, unless it's being kept a very hidden secret place.

 

[WinnieTheKhwai]

10 hours ago, elektrified said:

google Engine Failure Bangkok Post for a dose of reality.

 

I liked that article.  It also states clearly (and accurately) that tourism is just about the only sector that still works properly in the Thai economy... as long as they don't actively #($&# it up.     

 

It doesn't mention that also tourism would have taken a small hit after His Majesty's passing, with all the articles claiming that Thailand would be closed for a full year or at least that any kind of fun was frowned upon.

 

With some of Prayut's sillier brain farts now being walked back, I'm quite confident this bounce back real strong.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

On 12/2/2016 at 8:00 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Dunno, but I googled Luk Thung in Chiang Mai and got no places that play it.

 

Good grief.. we are now down to the level of one poster's googling skills, as opposed to real life out there.

 

Tamnan Folk is a good / convenient start.

[stament]

52 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Thailand is a very unequal society, theres a large section of genuinely poor, and a small % of very rich and it used to be not much middle class.. Looks to me like the middle class is growing (along with their debt) and the very rich also. 

Indeed, only last week I read an article on a very well known British news website (sorry I cannot post links but it's also a TV and radio organisation linked to the Government so that should narrow it down) where it was stated that Thailand is placed 3rd in the world of the largest gap between the rich and poor where 1% of the rich own the most as a % of the total country worth.

Edited December 5, 2016 by stament

[Thaiwrath]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

 

They were into the wine list from what I could see.. No one in this well dressed / well heeled lot were drinking pipers and soda.. 

 

Thailand is a very unequal society, theres a large section of genuinely poor, and a small % of very rich and it used to be not much middle class.. Looks to me like the middle class is growing (along with their debt) and the very rich also. 

 

I think perhaps 'some' expats dont like to see the wealth dynamics changing.. After all it upsets their applecart, reduces thier importance and shows how the great white bwana is not really the neo colonial master that a modest pension would have given 10 or 15 years back. They would rather believe theres only ill travelled peasant farmers earning 10k a month and thats it. The recent reaction to the (possible) introduction of the 100k a month affluent retiree visa really nails that. 

i 

I don;t give two hoots. 

when I go into a restaurant/bar, I don't look at people and try and judge their wealth, I just get on with my own thing.

Looks like you have an agenda, and make a point of noticing what people drive/wear/eat/drink..

Strange.

[kraxlhuber]

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 1:55 AM, Chicog said:

There's bugger all to do in the late hours because the nightlife has to close early.

 

I'm sure I'm not alone in seeking out alternatives until (if ever) it returns to normal.

 

 

Thailand will never return to NORMAL, the military will  reign for may years to come,  Tourists are not welcome with THEIR ways, especially ALL INCLUSIVE Russians and Chinese travellers, go somewhere else

[stament]

Why should they go elsewhere and may I ask why in particular you dislike the aforementioned types?

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

i 

I don;t give two hoots. 

when I go into a restaurant/bar, I don't look at people and try and judge their wealth, I just get on with my own thing.

Looks like you have an agenda, and make a point of noticing what people drive/wear/eat/drink..

Strange.

 

In case the point is lost.. 

 

Theres plenty of wealthy Thais spending decent amounts of money.. Supporting higher level businesses even in fairly rural settings. 

 

The idea of chiang mais fate hinging on the seasonal arrivals of westerners to drink 100b leos doesnt seem that valid to me. Asian tourism is doing well, Thai tourism isnt doing so badly, and that shifting demographic is making services to cater to them. Looks to me like Chiang Mai is doing just fine outside of the declining segment of more budget western oldies. 

 

The lack of bums on seats in Loy Kroh is really only a factor for those dinosaur bars that are not evolving with the new markets. 

[mania]

14 hours ago, elektrified said:

google Engine Failure Bangkok Post for a dose of reality.

 

That was a very sobering & I fear accurate report

[elektrified]

32 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

In case the point is lost.. 

 

Theres plenty of wealthy Thais spending decent amounts of money.. Supporting higher level businesses even in fairly rural settings. 

 

The idea of chiang mais fate hinging on the seasonal arrivals of westerners to drink 100b leos doesnt seem that valid to me. Asian tourism is doing well, Thai tourism isnt doing so badly, and that shifting demographic is making services to cater to them. Looks to me like Chiang Mai is doing just fine outside of the declining segment of more budget western oldies. 

 

The lack of bums on seats in Loy Kroh is really only a factor for those dinosaur bars that are not evolving with the new markets. 

I've been saying this for 2+ years now. The real spenders are the Thais, Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Malaysians, Singaporeans, etc. Just look around Central Festival. All of the expensive restaurants are occupied by the aforementioned patrons while the White Western backpackers,  and old folk white retirees are eating for 50 Baht in the Lanna food court on the basement floor. Look in Central at the Chinese purchasing expensive perfumes, handbags, etc., etc. by the bagful. The high-end hotels are 75% bookings with Asian tourists and Bangkokians. (Ask someone you know who works in a high-end hotel.) Take a look at the Bee product shop on Chiangmai Land where Asian tourists in busloads are dropping money like water. The demographics have long been shifting. Same on the Islands. On a recent trip to Koh Kood you could count the white Western tourists on maybe two hands. The Island's occupancy was almost entirely Thai tourists.

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, kraxlhuber said:

Thailand will never return to NORMAL, the military will  reign for may years to come,  Tourists are not welcome with THEIR ways, especially ALL INCLUSIVE Russians and Chinese travellers, go somewhere else

 

Codswallop!

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, elektrified said:

I've been saying this for 2+ years now. The real spenders are the Thais, Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Malaysians, Singaporeans, etc. Just look around Central Festival. All of the expensive restaurants are occupied by the aforementioned patrons while the White Western backpackers,  and old folk white retirees are eating for 50 Baht in the Lanna food court on the basement floor. Look in Central at the Chinese purchasing expensive perfumes, handbags, etc., etc. by the bagful. The high-end hotels are 75% bookings with Asian tourists and Bangkokians. (Ask someone you know who works in a high-end hotel.) Take a look at the Bee product shop on Chiangmai Land where Asian tourists in busloads are dropping money like water. The demographics have long been shifting. Same on the Islands. On a recent trip to Koh Kood you could count the white Western tourists on maybe two hands. The Island's occupancy was almost entirely Thai tourists.

 

Wouldn't be seen dead eating in the basement food court, it's the third floor food court for us every time.

[LivinLOS]

28 minutes ago, elektrified said:

I've been saying this for 2+ years now. The real spenders are the Thais, Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Malaysians, Singaporeans, etc. Just look around Central Festival. All of the expensive restaurants are occupied by the aforementioned patrons while the White Western backpackers,  and old folk white retirees are eating for 50 Baht in the Lanna food court on the basement floor. Look in Central at the Chinese purchasing expensive perfumes, handbags, etc., etc. by the bagful. The high-end hotels are 75% bookings with Asian tourists and Bangkokians. (Ask someone you know who works in a high-end hotel.) Take a look at the Bee product shop on Chiangmai Land where Asian tourists in busloads are dropping money like water. The demographics have long been shifting. Same on the Islands. On a recent trip to Koh Kood you could count the white Western tourists on maybe two hands. The Island's occupancy was almost entirely Thai tourists.

 

For me its multiple themes coming together.. Rise of east, decline in west, decline in western financial power, inflation in asian costs / wages / etc, more spending by asians on higher priced luxuries.. 

 

Mix in people on fixed income pensions, at exchange rates that are not moving in the right direction, and that spells doom and gloom. You can point to the declining businesses that cater to that market (and lets be clear, I also am baffled why they seem so intent on punishing Chaing Mais nightlife and not allowing more vibrancy and 'fun'... But for the whole city / society not only mongers and LK) but just pointing to that declining market / niche doesnt give the full picture. 

 

Also as said already.. I think theres a significant amount of grumps who want to 'blame the Thais' for these changes.. Oh how they have shot themselves in the foot, made thier currency too high, and wont be blessed by more fixed income retirees now.. I just dont think they care that much and are really just adapting to more global shifts. 

[kalbo123]

6 hours ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

 

I liked that article.  It also states clearly (and accurately) that tourism is just about the only sector that still works properly in the Thai economy... as long as they don't actively #($&# it up.     

 

It doesn't mention that also tourism would have taken a small hit after His Majesty's passing, with all the articles claiming that Thailand would be closed for a full year or at least that any kind of fun was frowned upon.

 

With some of Prayut's sillier brain farts now being walked back, I'm quite confident this bounce back real strong.

I also did read the article very carefully, and It said that they already @#%$# up tourism.

The Chinese are not coming anymore, and they are a big part of especially Chiang Mai tourism.

[SooKee]

Lots of mentions of LK on the thread recently but in terms of nightlife I doubt it would even feature. Seriously, if anyone wanted what LK had to offer they'd be much better going to another part of Thailand. It's all the other places that lack much of anything for me, as I said before, no life, no vibrancy, too far apart, too samey and crap hours.

As to these rural craft beer 'bars', and I use the term loosely, I'm just not sure what they would have to entice people:
- Good view - no. Gazing around at the local fields and mozzy swarms
- Good for people watching (in absence of good view) - nope
- Good atmosphere / vibe - most definitely not every time I've been past it
- Not too far (either to get to OR to get to the place if it's crap) - nope
- Good prices - nope. 300 for an IPA or whatever is OK if all the 4 above, or at least 2-3, apply, but they don't. 300 to sit in a dead bar that looks more like a cafe with nothing but a dusty road and bushes to look at! Sorry, but why would you do that??



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[cyberfarang]

3 hours ago, kraxlhuber said:

Thailand will never return to NORMAL, the military will  reign for may years to come,  Tourists are not welcome with THEIR ways, especially ALL INCLUSIVE Russians and Chinese travellers, go somewhere else

The decline in Chiang Mai nightlife began well before the military take over. The main dismantling took place during the Thaksin Shinawat era between 2001 and 2006 when he was prime minister and it seems never recovered, although the rot started setting in even before that.

 

The plan was that Chiang Mai was to become a cultural city and a sort of nature reserve and the Farlang tourists on budgets would be catered for in coastal resorts like Pattaya. The aim was to attract middle aged and elderly Westerners who would stay at the most expensive hotels, join expensive golf clubs, visit the expensive spas and resorts, invest in condos and properties. Then they believed all this would attract thousands of hi-so Chinese tourists who would, spend, spend, spend and also invest money into condos and join elite schemes. The problem was that although the TaT created a huge advertising campaign with their Amazing Thailand and hype, they failed to invest in amenities and features to accommodate these so called high end tourists meaning, they wanted more tourist revenue into the city but without creating anymore resources into it. It seems the TaT are still gambling on a pipe dream and until someone becomes in charge with real insight and marketing skills then this situation will continue.

[kalbo123]

5 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

The decline in Chiang Mai nightlife began well before the military take over. The main dismantling took place during the Thaksin Shinawat era between 2001 and 2006 when he was prime minister and it seems never recovered, although the rot started setting in even before that.

 

The plan was that Chiang Mai was to become a cultural city and a sort of nature reserve and the Farlang tourists on budgets would be catered for in coastal resorts like Pattaya. The aim was to attract middle aged and elderly Westerners who would stay at the most expensive hotels, join expensive golf clubs, visit the expensive spas and resorts, invest in condos and properties. Then they believed all this would attract thousands of hi-so Chinese tourists who would, spend, spend, spend and also invest money into condos and join elite schemes. The problem was that although the TaT created a huge advertising campaign with their Amazing Thailand and hype, they failed to invest in amenities and features to accommodate these so called high end tourists meaning, they wanted more tourist revenue into the city but without creating anymore resources into it. It seems the TaT are still gambling on a pipe dream and until someone becomes in charge with real insight and marketing skills then this situation will continue.

Between 2001 and 2006 there where no limitations how long a bar could be open.

It was great, those times never seem to come back.

 

BTW Thaksin wanted to create casinos in Chiang Mai, of course that never happened.

[hml367]

16 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

The decline in Chiang Mai nightlife began well before the military take over. The main dismantling took place during the Thaksin Shinawat era between 2001 and 2006 when he was prime minister and it seems never recovered, although the rot started setting in even before that.

 

The plan was that Chiang Mai was to become a cultural city and a sort of nature reserve and the Farlang tourists on budgets would be catered for in coastal resorts like Pattaya. The aim was to attract middle aged and elderly Westerners who would stay at the most expensive hotels, join expensive golf clubs, visit the expensive spas and resorts, invest in condos and properties. Then they believed all this would attract thousands of hi-so Chinese tourists who would, spend, spend, spend and also invest money into condos and join elite schemes. The problem was that although the TaT created a huge advertising campaign with their Amazing Thailand and hype, they failed to invest in amenities and features to accommodate these so called high end tourists meaning, they wanted more tourist revenue into the city but without creating anymore resources into it. It seems the TaT are still gambling on a pipe dream and until someone becomes in charge with real insight and marketing skills then this situation will continue.

 

 

Gi Gi's was finally made to close at the required hours I believe. 

 

Take a look at this thread 

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by hml367

[LivinLOS]

21 minutes ago, SooKee said:

As to these rural craft beer 'bars', and I use the term loosely, I'm just not sure what they would have to entice people:
- Good view - no. Gazing around at the local fields and mozzy swarms
- Good for people watching (in absence of good view) - nope
- Good atmosphere / vibe - most definitely not every time I've been past it
- Not too far (either to get to OR to get to the place if it's crap) - nope
- Good prices - nope. 300 for an IPA or whatever is OK if all the 4 above, or at least 2-3, apply, but they don't. 300 to sit in a dead bar that looks more like a cafe with nothing but a dusty road and bushes to look at! Sorry, but why would you do that??

 

Its not if they have appeal for you, its simply to demonstrate that theres a lot of money in the Thai market, which asians dont seem to mind spending. 

All this 'tourism is dead and Chaing Mai will pay the price' seems vastly over blown when you see how much business Thais seem to be able to bring. 

[Thailand]

The casinos were past the discussion stage with Macau consortiums in early 2006 but another one of those coo thingies got in the way.

[mcfish]

The Russians arrived in jomtien with a vengeance around 5 days ago. I'm in view talay 2 most baht buses are full especially at night and often Need to wait for the 4th or 5th..its like someone flipped a switch and went from quite to super busy in a day or 2

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, mcfish said:

The Russians arrived in jomtien with a vengeance around 5 days ago. I'm in view talay 2 most baht buses are full especially at night and often Need to wait for the 4th or 5th..its like someone flipped a switch and went from quite to super busy in a day or 2

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk
 

 

Same in my condo block in Jomtien, it filled up 3-4 weeks ago, all the deck chairs are taken, car park is full, towels on every balcony. There are more baby strollers in the foyer than motorbikes outside. 3 deep at the 7/11 counter. 

 

Its not really high season without a couple of "what happened to high season" posts, same every year