Trump speaks with Taiwan's president, risking China tensions

[NeverSure]

8 hours ago, aslimversgwm said:

Exactly - very well responded to - totally agree Ginboy! The US deficit is what? 19 trillion $? and rising every minute - almost! That's a lot of naughts for the Trumpettes who can't count  - 12 in fact! 19,000,000,000,000! Doesn't that worry you and you want to reduce taxation and borrow even more!? Geese! One day soon the Chinese will realise that this is unsustainable and stop investing in dollar bonds, or whatever, ensuring the Yuan becomes the future international currency replacing the almighty dollar. It happened to the British pound so don't think it can't happen Trumpettes! 

 

My, so excitable while so very wrong.  

 

Please read my post #108 above so I don't have to type it for you again.

 

Cheers.

 

PS  The UK's debt is about the same as that of the US as a percentage of GDP. The UK's is rising faster due to trying to pay "benefits" to anyone under the sun.

 

Cheers.

Edited December 4, 2016 by NeverSure

[Credo]

Speaking with the president of Taiwan and publicly acknowledging it, is a big mistake.   Don't poke the (Panda) bear.   If you wish to take on China, then do so, but don't do it by simply p**ssing them off.   

 

He has no strategy with China and he has no strategy with Taiwan.   He's simply the King of Chaos.   

[NeverSure]

30 minutes ago, Credo said:

Speaking with the president of Taiwan and publicly acknowledging it, is a big mistake.   Don't poke the (Panda) bear.   If you wish to take on China, then do so, but don't do it by simply p**ssing them off.   

 

He has no strategy with China and he has no strategy with Taiwan.   He's simply the King of Chaos.   

 

Trump has every intention of poking that bear and has said so all along. He's made it clear that trade deals that favor China are completely unacceptable and that he will impose sanctions if China doesn't negotiate better deals.

 

China is a third world country with evil leaders and the US has allowed them to build themselves up to this point at the expense of the American worker.

 

Stand back and watch Trump handle China which respects only strength. China hasn't seen any strength from US leaders for decades.

 

The precious snowflakes on here appear to be so afraid of China that they run to their safe spaces the minute someone says "boo".

 

What a bunch of puzzies I have to listen to everywhere I look.  

 

Cheers.

[simple1]

3 hours ago, NeverSure said:

 

Trump has every intention of poking that bear and has said so all along. He's made it clear that trade deals that favor China are completely unacceptable and that he will impose sanctions if China doesn't negotiate better deals.

 

China is a third world country with evil leaders and the US has allowed them to build themselves up to this point at the expense of the American worker.

 

Stand back and watch Trump handle China which respects only strength. China hasn't seen any strength from US leaders for decades.

 

The precious snowflakes on here appear to be so afraid of China that they run to their safe spaces the minute someone says "boo".

 

What a bunch of puzzies I have to listen to everywhere I look.  

 

Cheers.

 

China controls approx 95% of the worldwide rare minerals market that are critical for hi tech  manufacturing. I find it rather odd Trumpsters believe the new Administration will create a New World Order without significant negatives for the US which could easily be applied in a trade war.

 

With regard to Trump's promise to apply a 35% (?) tariff on US companies imports from overseas outsourcing has the policy been clarified if it will apply to current offshore manufacturing contracts?. How will US companies compete with imports from non US multinationals who outsource to places such as India, China, Vietnam etc. Has Trump proposed to punish US software vendors, SI's and critical foreign software vendors such as SAP who outsource software development and maintenance overseas to lower costs for US Govt and domestic clients, rather than utilise extremely expensive US resources etc etc etc

[Morch]

On 12/4/2016 at 6:07 AM, NeverSure said:

OMG. Trump is actually putting the interests of the US ahead of China. For the first time in decades we'll have a president who doesn't bow down to China. Whatever is this world coming to?

 

Cheers.

 

Trump's reactions mostly addressed Trump. Not so much PRC or US interests.

[Morch]

On 12/4/2016 at 1:27 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

You think it won't come to that anyway?

How fast people forget the Chamberlain "piece of paper", and the result. Appeasing China isn't going to make them see sense.

At the moment, America could make China back down, but in a few years once they have built up their military, forgedaboudit.

 

Bullies always back down in the face of superior power.

 

It got nothing to do with appeasing the PRC, and everything to do with having a coherent plan as how to thwart the PRC's goals. Trump's actions and reactions do not seem to indicate much by way of forethought.

 

If Trump wishes to confront the PRC, fine. If Trump wishes to correct current trade issues between the US and the PRC, excellent. The suggestion made in this regard is to have some semblance of an integrated policy in place, rather than applying off the cuff actions.

 

It is also more appropriate for Trump to assume office before taking actions or issuing statements without being officially responsible for dealing with possible consequences.

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by Morch

[Morch]

23 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I have a very healthy fear of China expansionism, unlike many on TVF who seem to relish in the fact that China's expansionism is at the expense of American influence

 

My main point in all of this thread is that 'in your face' goading of China isn't going to work. That's not how they think, it's not how they respond.

 

We live in Asia, you know, or should do, how much 'face' means. To the regime in Beijing face is everything, publicly slap that face, and nothing good will ensue.

 

I agree with most of what you posted on this topic, and appreciate a point of view relying on personal experience.

 

Earlier in the topic though, you made a comment about the folly of reducing complex situations to bumper sticker slogans. Hear you on this one, even if it's a lost cause as far as TVF goes. That said, the "face is everything" mantra applied to Asia could be perceived as yet another instance of using a simplistic truism.

 

IMO, there's much value in understanding how other cultures see things, but that does not imply that all actions and reactions need to be dictated by their beliefs and sensitivities. Sometimes a bit of reverse culture shock is just what's needed, and sometimes it just won't do to bend over backwards.

[Morch]

On 12/4/2016 at 1:58 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

I find it alarming that you, and apparently the western authorities, take such fright at the very idea of upsetting China because of a phone call.

China is just a huge bully that is trying to take over SEA, and should be treated as a big bully, not as some valued member of a peaceful world community.

I scorn the idea that China can be that upset because Trump takes a phone call. If they really are, they need a reality check.

 

I find it alarming that you can read anything resembling "fright" in my post. Not surprising, mind, got accustomed to the constant hyperbole misrepresentations by now.

 

There's nothing wrong with challenging the PRC, and there are good reasons to do so. It is merely asserted that this ought to be done in more structured ways. It was also suggested that Trump may wait until he assumes office before engaging in actions which may results in consequences currently not under his jurisdiction.

[Morch]

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I guess you would have supported Chamberlain then.

 

Back to the OP. Does anyone outside the Washington bubble world give a rat's bottom if Trump talks to the Taiwanese president or not?

 

Other than your baiting comparisons with Chamerlain, which are nothing to do with most posted positions critical of Trump's actions, there was at least one post which detailed some Taiwanese views on this matter, not all cheerleading, apparently.

[Morch]

13 hours ago, NeverSure said:

 

Trump has every intention of poking that bear and has said so all along. He's made it clear that trade deals that favor China are completely unacceptable and that he will impose sanctions if China doesn't negotiate better deals.

 

China is a third world country with evil leaders and the US has allowed them to build themselves up to this point at the expense of the American worker.

 

Stand back and watch Trump handle China which respects only strength. China hasn't seen any strength from US leaders for decades.

 

The precious snowflakes on here appear to be so afraid of China that they run to their safe spaces the minute someone says "boo".

 

What a bunch of puzzies I have to listen to everywhere I look.  

 

Cheers.

 

To clarify, is this yet another instance in which we are expected not to criticize Trump (as he's not yet in office), but encouraged to believe things he will (surely) do once he does assume office?

 

[Kiwiken]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I find it alarming that you can read anything resembling "fright" in my post. Not surprising, mind, got accustomed to the constant hyperbole misrepresentations by now.

 

There's nothing wrong with challenging the PRC, and there are good reasons to do so. It is merely asserted that this ought to be done in more structured ways. It was also suggested that Trump may wait until he assumes office before engaging in actions which may results in consequences currently not under his jurisdiction.

You are right the PRC does need to be challenged. SE Asia is in a state of flux. And soon enough China will have to contend with a surging India. However for many of us in the Asian sphere of Influence. China economically here will rule the roost. And with the prospect of the USA killing the TPTA then the chinese Trading bloc with less checks and balances will be the norm. China is challenging the USA and others in the South China sea but it is not just about territory it is about who controls the next main currency vis - a - vis the US Dollar versus the Chinese Yuan. And the Chinese are positioning themselves for this. China has already bought into most Asian and Pacific Nations so in this they are on the front foot. If the USA becomes more Isolationist then they will lose by abdication. I hope this is not the case. Militarily i do not fear China. It is its economic muscle that must be watched and monitored

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Morch said:

 

It got nothing to do with appeasing the PRC, and everything to do with having a coherent plan as how to thwart the PRC's goals. Trump's actions and reactions do not seem to indicate much by way of forethought.

 

If Trump wishes to confront the PRC, fine. If Trump wishes to correct current trade issues between the US and the PRC, excellent. The suggestion made in this regard is to have some semblance of an integrated policy in place, rather than applying off the cuff actions.

 

It is also more appropriate for Trump to assume office before taking actions or issuing statements without being officially responsible for dealing with possible consequences.

 

If talking to someone that is a democratically leader for 10 minutes is actually threatening to the vile leaders of the PRC, excellent.

However, IMO, it's more about seeing what the effect of complaining has on the sugarbabies in congress, than actually threatening consequences. It was, after all just a phone call.

No doubt they will be encouraged by the reaction of the sugarpuffs.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If talking to someone that is a democratically leader for 10 minutes is actually threatening to the vile leaders of the PRC, excellent.

However, IMO, it's more about seeing what the effect of complaining has on the sugarbabies in congress, than actually threatening consequences. It was, after all just a phone call.

No doubt they will be encouraged by the reaction of the sugarpuffs.

 

It wasn't threatening to anyone, and the PRC's response was rather mild as expected. Non of my posts here even alluded to reactions from Congress and such, but to the wisdom (or rather, lack of) manifested by Trump's action. If anything, the above reads like the PRC actually gained something.  

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

You are right the PRC does need to be challenged. SE Asia is in a state of flux. And soon enough China will have to contend with a surging India. However for many of us in the Asian sphere of Influence. China economically here will rule the roost. And with the prospect of the USA killing the TPTA then the chinese Trading bloc with less checks and balances will be the norm. China is challenging the USA and others in the South China sea but it is not just about territory it is about who controls the next main currency vis - a - vis the US Dollar versus the Chinese Yuan. And the Chinese are positioning themselves for this. China has already bought into most Asian and Pacific Nations so in this they are on the front foot. If the USA becomes more Isolationist then they will lose by abdication. I hope this is not the case. Militarily i do not fear China. It is its economic muscle that must be watched and monitored

IMO N Z needs to seriously consider becoming part of Australia. If Trump does become more isolationist, or expects countries to pick up more of the tab for defending themselves, N Z is in the deep brown stuff. It has zero capability of defending itself against the PRC, or possibly any other country with an actual military capability. Even the ads for the NZDF on tv portray the armed forces as a civil defence force, with girlies rescuing old ladies from floods etc. As for the mechanized capability .

At least they did get rid of that Steyr abomination in favour of the real thing.

 

IMO if Australia was faced with being overwhelmed by the PRC, or allowing them to take over NZ without lifting a finger, I would expect a pragmatic response.

N Z did kick the US in the goolies over the nuclear ships stupidity, so why would the US bother about an almost unpopulated country with only trees, sheep and an aluminium smelter to contribute. Tasmania would be happy to take over the Antarctic support facility.

IMO N Z has been relying on the US to protect it, and things are going to change big time.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

It wasn't threatening to anyone, and the PRC's response was rather mild as expected. Non of my posts here even alluded to reactions from Congress and such, but to the wisdom (or rather, lack of) manifested by Trump's action. If anything, the above reads like the PRC actually gained something.  

Seriously? They got such an hysterical reaction by the sugarpuffs, that they must be high fiveing each other big time.

 

the PRC's response was rather mild as expected

LOL. A response over a phone call! 555555555555

 

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seriously? They got such an hysterical reaction by the sugarpuffs, that they must be high fiveing each other big time.

 

the PRC's response was rather mild as expected

LOL. A response over a phone call! 555555555555

 

 

I think it was addressed earlier on the topic: seems like they played it to the max, harping on Western sensitivities, going on about the rules etc. Still sounds like you're actually saying the PRC scored something.

[CWMcMurray]

 

If they did sell of all the US debt head... The value of the dollar would plummet

This would decrease the value of all of the US debt they were still holding to a very low amount and decrease a large portion of Chinese gov. wealth.

At the same time, crash of US dollar would make imports into the US super expensive and US Exports really cheap ..

Which would cause US exports to boom and make it more feasible for companies to manufacture in the US

Of course in short term Wall Street and stocks would likely take a huge hit..

But in the mid to long term would
Likely help US manufactures

Of course US importers would be crushed and could lead to huge increase in cost of many products unless there are alternatives that were made in America

... Who knows, maybe this is what Trump is trying to do???


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, CWMcMurray said:

 

 

If they did sell of all the US debt head... The value of the dollar would plummet

This would decrease the value of all of the US debt they were still holding to a very low amount and decrease a large portion of Chinese gov. wealth.

At the same time, crash of US dollar would make imports into the US super expensive and US Exports really cheap ..

Which would cause US exports to boom and make it more feasible for companies to manufacture in the US

Of course in short term Wall Street and stocks would likely take a huge hit..

But in the mid to long term would
Likely help US manufactures

Of course US importers would be crushed and could lead to huge increase in cost of many products unless there are alternatives that were made in America

... Who knows, maybe this is what Trump is trying to do???


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

Sounds like a plan.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎05‎.‎12‎.‎2016 at 2:07 PM, Morch said:

 

I find it alarming that you can read anything resembling "fright" in my post. Not surprising, mind, got accustomed to the constant hyperbole misrepresentations by now.

 

There's nothing wrong with challenging the PRC, and there are good reasons to do so. It is merely asserted that this ought to be done in more structured ways. It was also suggested that Trump may wait until he assumes office before engaging in actions which may results in consequences currently not under his jurisdiction.

It was also suggested  that Trump would not win the nomination and would not win the election. Yet some still try to look at Trump as if he were a conventional president elect. Will they never learn?

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It was also suggested  that Trump would not win the nomination and would not win the election. Yet some still try to look at Trump as if he were a conventional president elect. Will they never learn?

 

I get it that "Trump won!" is the fallback "argument" whenever nothing reasonable can be produced by his supporters.