Trump talks Taiwan on the telephone China lodges complaint

[Rob13]

22 minutes ago, NeverSure said:

. BTW the Cold War with Russia ended very well for the US.

 

The irony of that is that the Soviet Union had a troubled economy was spending money it didn't have on a drawn out war in Afghanistan and went bankrupt trying to keep up in an arms race with the US. Pretty much the same situation the US would be in in a cold war with China with the exception that the US is in debt to the PRC and USSR didn't owe the US.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by Rob13

[Si Thea01]

1 minute ago, boomerangutang said:

 

I am liberal.  I must also be unbelievable.  However, you didn't ask me whether I liked or disliked Trump's recent faux pas mentioned in the OP.  As much as I dislike Trump, I actually liked what he did re; Taiwan.  For decades I have been in favor of Taiwan being recognized for the country it is.   Dagnabbit: don't be so quick to put us liberals in a cubby hole that fits your biases.     

 

Wow Boomer, you have shocked me, are you drifting toward the centre or maybe a little to the right.? Once he gets thing up and running you might find you could even like him, even if it's just a little, it would make a change.  

[Si Thea01]

2 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

 

The irony of that is that the Soviet Union had a troubled economy was spending money it didn't have on a drawn out war in Afghanistan and went bankrupt trying to keep up in an arms race with the US. Pretty much the same situation the US would be in in a cold war with China with the exception that the US is in debt to the PRC and USSR didn't owe the US.

 

 

 

That's exactly why China wouldn't pull the pin on the US of A.  It would be their economy that collapsed not America's.  Why do you have a fixation with China and a cold war.  Can't be cold, don't we have global warming, oh sorry, went off topic a little.  Besides if China instigated a trade war and America retaliated, who would they sell all their junk to?  

[Pimay1]

14 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

 

I am liberal.  I must also be unbelievable.  However, you didn't ask me whether I liked or disliked Trump's recent faux pas mentioned in the OP.  As much as I dislike Trump, I actually liked what he did re; Taiwan.  For decades I have been in favor of Taiwan being recognized for the country it is.   Dagnabbit: don't be so quick to put us liberals in a cubby hole that fits your biases.     

Praise the Lord and pass the biscuits, there is hope for you yet Boomer.

[webfact]

Trump continues to defend his call with Taiwan's leader

By JONATHAN LEMIRE and GILLIAN WONG

 

NEW YORK (AP) — President-elect Donald Trump continued to use Twitter Sunday to defend his engagement with the leader of Taiwan, a breach of diplomatic protocol as the U.S. shifted recognition from Taiwan to China nearly 40 years ago.

 

In a series of evening tweets, Trump groused about criticism that he didn't work with China ahead of the contact. China considers Taiwan a rogue province.

 

"Did China ask us if it was OK to carry out a number of actions such as build up disputed islands in the South China Sea or take economic measures hurtful to the United States," Trump tweeted.

 

The Taiwanese leader, Tsai Ing-Wen, called Trump Friday to congratulate him on the election in a call set up by an American third party. Taiwan's official Central News Agency, citing anonymous sources on Saturday, said that Edwin Feulner, founder of the Washington-based Heritage Foundation, was a "crucial figure" in setting up communication channels between the sides.

 

The call prompted an understated complaint from China to the U.S. government. Foreign Minister Wang Yi said Saturday that the contact was "just a small trick by Taiwan" that he believed would not change U.S. policy toward China, according to Hong Kong's Phoenix TV.

 

"The one-China policy is the cornerstone of the healthy development of China-U.S. relations and we hope this political foundation will not be interfered with or damaged," Wang was quoted as saying. Chinese officials said they lodged a complaint with the U.S. and reiterated a commitment to seeking "reunification" with the island, which they consider a renegade province.

 

The call was the starkest example yet of how Trump has flouted diplomatic conventions since he won the Nov. 8 election. He has apparently undertaken calls with foreign leaders without guidance customarily given by the State Department, which oversees U.S. diplomacy.

 

"President-elect Trump is just shooting from the hip, trying to take phone calls of congratulatory messages from leaders around the world without consideration for the implications," said Bonnie Glaser, senior adviser for Asia at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

 

Vice President-elect Mike Pence said Sunday that the phone call shouldn't necessarily be interpreted as a shift in U.S. policy. He shrugged off the attention to the incident as media hype.

 

"It was a courtesy call," Pence told NBC's "Meet the Press."

 

Over the decades, the status of Taiwan has been one of the most sensitive issues in U.S.-China relations. China regards Taiwan as part of its territory to be retaken by force, if necessary, if it seeks independence. It would regard any recognition of a Taiwanese leader as a head of state as unacceptable.

 

Taiwan split from the Chinese mainland in 1949. The U.S. policy acknowledges the Chinese view over sovereignty, but considers Taiwan's status as unsettled.

 

Ned Price, a spokesman for the White House National Security Council, said Trump's conversation does not signal any change to long-standing U.S. policy on cross-strait issues. Yet the phone conversation prompted mixed reactions.

 

Yang Chih-kai, a 22-year-old university student in New Taipei City, said the call raised Taiwanese hopes for a stronger relationship with the United States.

 

"People will think that the U.S. will keep on helping Taiwan protect itself against China's threat," Yang said.

Taiwanese newspapers ran banner headlines Sunday about the call, and two noted on their front pages Sunday that Trump referred to Tsai as "the president of Taiwan," a formulation that would be a huge shift in American policy and infuriate China.

 

Douglas Paal, a former director of the American Institute in Taiwan, which unofficially represents U.S. interests in Taipei, said it was too soon to judge whether Trump was going to lead that shift, or if the incident was just a "complicated accident."

 

"Beijing will watch closely to see which it is," said Paal, now vice president for studies at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. "But until someone from Trump Tower explains further, it is unknowable."

 

The U.S. shifted diplomatic recognition to China from Taiwan in 1979. But the governments in Washington and Taipei have maintained close unofficial ties and deep economic and defense relations. The U.S. is required by law to provide Taiwan with weapons to maintain its defense, and since 2009, the Obama administration has approved $14 billion in arms sales to Taiwan.

 

The Taiwanese presidential office said Trump and Tsai discussed issues affecting Asia and the future of U.S. relations with Taiwan. Tsai also told Trump that she hoped the U.S. would support Taiwan in its participation in international affairs, the office said, in an apparent reference to China's efforts to isolate Taiwan from global institutions such as the United Nations.

 

Taiwan's presidential office spokesman, Alex Huang, said separately that Taiwan's relations with China and "healthy" Taiwan-U.S. relations can proceed in parallel. "There is no conflict" in that, he said.

 

China's foreign ministry said Beijing lodged "solemn representations" with the U.S. over the call.

 

"It must be pointed out that there is only one China in the world and Taiwan is an inseparable part of Chinese territory," Geng Shuang, a ministry spokesman, said in a statement. "The government of the People's Republic of China is the sole legitimate government representing China."

___

Associated Press writers Matthew Pennington and Darlene Superville in Washington, Johnson Lai in Taipei, and Nomaan Merchant and news researcher Henry Hou in Beijing contributed to this report.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-12-05

[55Jay]

Hillary Clinton and a group of her supporters went to Catalina Island, declared it a quasi-autonomous state with Clinton as the president.  The US obviously rejects the move and contemplates military action to put down the rebellious Clinton clan and assert its territorial authority.

 

Mexico doesn't want to interfere directly but indirectly, enjoys the opportunity to poke a finger in the US's eye by selling Clinton's Catalina clan military weapons and ammo to defend themselves against hostile US action AND says it will back them up if it comes to that. 

 

A new Mexican president is elected, seems like a bit of a jack ass.  Taking the initiative, Clinton rings the president elect to suss him out.  The Mexican president elect would take the call from a good customer, and giggles secretly watching the US freak out in the news about it.

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by 55Jay

[NeverSure]

53 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

 

The irony of that is that the Soviet Union had a troubled economy was spending money it didn't have on a drawn out war in Afghanistan and went bankrupt trying to keep up in an arms race with the US. Pretty much the same situation the US would be in in a cold war with China with the exception that the US is in debt to the PRC and USSR didn't owe the US.

 

 

 

 

 

Knock it off, please. The US isn't "in debt to the PRC." China has its own debt and it borrows money so that it can hold $USD for international trade. It holds those dollars in the form of US treasuries.

 

The US has leverage over China in that it could call in those treasuries, depriving China of USD and putting it out of biz. If the US blocked China from having $USD China would go tits up the next day as no one would buy or sell in Yuan.

 

Trump already bashed China today for devaluing its currency, charging duties on US exports and building up military in the SC Sea.

 

Does he act like he's afraid of China? He promised to go after China when running for office. Why is anyone surprised?

 

Good for him. It's about time someone did.

[Stargeezr]

China  mad,  blah   blah   blah.  Trump  bad  guy  again.

  I do hope  that when Donald is the President  he  will continue

to show  China, Russia  and others,  that  the USA is  not  the same.

Maybe  it  is time  for a change  in  some  policies.

Geezer

[Geoffggi]

I really do wish people would stop Trump bashing before he has had a chance to show what he can do, talk about "Spoilt Brat Syndrome" (It's my bat and ball and if you don't play to my rules we won't play at all) just because he won't cow tail to what the "Old Boys" want, he is not being given a chance; give the man every opportunity before finding him guilty prior to the offence, I personally wish him all the best of luck and hope he really does well also kicks the establishment's ass..!!!

[sgtsabai]

I'm no liberal, I'm a far left radical militant. While in some ways I like orange fascist giving China the finger, he is only interested in making money and has no clue as to what he is doing. I do think Taiwan should be recognized by the US. China is a bully, when they can't buy it, they will take it. Smarter the US, they buy instead of starting wars. The time to have stopped China's illegal expansion in the China Seas was before it began. Did the US information agencies blow it yet once again, were they too busy spying on their own citizens?

 

The US needs to stand up to China, unfortunately the orange fascist doesn't have the brain power to do it. He didn't have clue as to what his phone call could/would do and didn't care anyway. Just using his position to leverage another hotel

 

I believe the correct phrase is praise the lord (is that his majesty Trump?) and pass the ammunition. I don't think you or anybody else is ever going to change the boomer's center left stance.

 

The orange fascist's picks for cabinet/advisor's is all the chance anybody needed to give him. He failed, big time. With the exception of General Mattis, who shouldn't be Sec. of War Defense, his picks have been wacko racist, misogynist, right wing religious, white nationalist bretbrat jerks, including the VP. His words and actions in the run up to the debacle of an election and his history tells thinking people all the need to know. He is not nor ever will be my president. He is the establishment, the 1% that have been destroying the US.

Edited December 5, 2016 by sgtsabai

[onthesoi]

3 minutes ago, sgtsabai said:

China is a bully, when they can't buy it, they will take it. Smarter the US, they buy instead of starting wars. The time to have stopped China's illegal expansion in the China Seas was before it began.

 

Are you sure about this?

 

Make 2 vertical lists side by side, on the left list all the wars started by the US over the last 100 years, on the right list all the wars started by China!!!

 

& what right does the US have to poke its military nose into the China Seas?  How far is that region from the states? ....the clue is in the name of the sea.  Can you imagine if Chinese warships were patrolling and sticking their noses into the Gulf of Mexico?

[onthesoi]

5 hours ago, NeverSure said:

 

Knock it off, please. The US isn't "in debt to the PRC." China has its own debt and it borrows money so that it can hold $USD for international trade. It holds those dollars in the form of US treasuries.

 

The US has leverage over China in that it could call in those treasuries, depriving China of USD and putting it out of biz. If the US blocked China from having $USD China would go tits up the next day as no one would buy or sell in Yuan.

 

 

I'm calling bullshit...

 

How exactly could the US stop China from holding/exchanging dollars?   For eg, there was a lot of US dollars sloshing around in Russia at the height of the cold war.

 

Also, other countries are paying China in their own currencies not just US dollars.

 

& the US is in debt to the PRC to the tune of around $1.24 trillion.

Edited December 5, 2016 by onthesoi

[hdkane]

Perhaps the most difficult aspect of the job of POTUS is the nuance of diplomacy...what might seem like an innocuous phone call congratulating him (one of dozens) can have unexpected consequences...hopefully, the significant attention paid to this small event will stress to Trump the important role advisors will play in his presidency....before every phone call with another leader, Obama is briefed about everything from the possible topics of conversation to the nuances of certain words in different cultures...regardless of the nation, there is simply no way for one person to function independently as a leader...news outlets have reported that Trump has forgone daily briefings from the state department because he has not "officially" taken over at POTUS...moreover, he has always enjoyed the privilege of being autonomous in his daily activities...those days are over, possibly forever...everyone everywhere should hope that Trump is a quick study...

[Srikcir]

5 hours ago, NeverSure said:

It holds those dollars in the form of US treasuries.

US Treasury bonds are debt instruments. Very basic economics.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/treasurybond.asp

The bondholder cannot call the bond debt before its term expires unless the US defaults on bond payments - which it has never done. Such would be unconstitutional.

 

[Morch]

Comments from Trump supporters here seem to oscillate between seeing it as a "storm in a teacup" and "Rules have changed"/"new sheriff in town".  Kindly pick one, enough that Trump himself flip-flops on so many statements without assistance.

 

Now, this is indeed a storm in a teacup with regard to actual consequences. The PRC won't be going on no warpath over a phone call, and US policy remains unchanged (that's actual US policy not ramblings about what Trump might do once he assumes office, and further extrapolating his actions having successful outcomes). So that too - no rules have been changed, certainly not due to a half-expected breach of protocol by Trump, or by supporters on this forum expanding their views of what his future policies might include.

 

The point is simply this apparently being not a well thought out move, but rather a more of an impulsive one. Always useful to consider Trump's initial reactions, before his minders and spokespersons get into damage control mode. None of the learned views or coherent reasoning currently offered was evident. I doubt that beyond partisan views, anyone actually sees this as a reassuring way of running a country or international relations.

 

Take on the PRC, just have a plan and let your team know what the plan is.

[zaZa9]

Why should China be dictating to the US its foreign policy ?

The US  'softly softly' approach with China hasnt stopped them from destabalizing relations with ALL of their  South China Sea neighbours by claiming territorial rights under their 'Nine Dashes' demands.

 

 

I didnt like Trump at all , but Im beginning to warm to him.

[sgtsabai]

They are taking shoals etc. and making islands of them in waters that do not belong to them because they can and the nations that they do belong to aren't powerful enough to stop the. I never said they started wars, I said they were too smart, they just buy. The US has a long history of being dumb and starting wars, overthrowing regimes, mostly the wrong ones, instead of just buying. China has bought Lao, they own it economically and are hated there. But, the military is still trained and run by Vietnam, centuries old enemies of China.

 

The US has the right to ensure freedom of passage and is the only country capable of doing so in the China Seas. They are a strategic choke point for shipping that many countries including the US depends on. China wants to control them, the US doesn't. The US wants to keep them open.

[Silurian]

13 minutes ago, hdkane said:

Perhaps the most difficult aspect of the job of POTUS is the nuance of diplomacy...what might seem like an innocuous phone call congratulating him (one of dozens) can have unexpected consequences...hopefully, the significant attention paid to this small event will stress to Trump the important role advisors will play in his presidency....before every phone call with another leader, Obama is briefed about everything from the possible topics of conversation to the nuances of certain words in different cultures...regardless of the nation, there is simply no way for one person to function independently as a leader...news outlets have reported that Trump has forgone daily briefings from the state department because he has not "officially" taken over at POTUS...moreover, he has always enjoyed the privilege of being autonomous in his daily activities...those days are over, possibly forever...everyone everywhere should hope that Trump is a quick study...

 

Don the Prez's style is to go by his gut and wing it. He barely sat still enough for the pre-debate mock sessions during the campaign so does one expect him to sit through those boring tedious daily briefings? Nah, that is what Pence is for, doing all the boring day-to-day stuff. Don is all about the flash and glory. Even now, instead of concentrating on his cabinet and getting prepared for the presidency he decides it is time to refresh his image (and ego) by traipsing around the US on his "I am so wonderful and you know it" Thank You tour. He doesn't have time to learn diplomacy nor does he even want to. He will shoot from the hip and smile all the while no matter the feathers he ruffles. It doesn't bother him in the least.

[Morch]

21 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

Comrade Xi must have got the shock of his life upon hearing of Trump's call...realizing it's a new game in relations with the United States and that there's soon to be no longer a pushover occupying the Oval Office ?

 

Creative imagination there, considering the actual response from the PRC. I doubt they were not expecting some nonsense or the other from Trump. As others posted, in reality this is nothing but a diplomatic storm in  a teacup - better wait and see how things develop with regard to actual issues rather than statements.

 

If we are to avoid criticism of Trump before he takes office, perhaps the same may apply when it comes to celebrating his imaginary future diplomatic victories as real?

[Briggsy]

What have China learnt from this?

 

Well, if they didn't know already, it is that Trump's family business interests now outrank the strategic security arrangements of the US including those states who rely upon a military alliance with the US.

 

So if you want to continue living as a member of the free world under the security umbrella of the US/NATO, you had better agree to whatever business terms Jared, Ivanka and Donald Jr acting on behalf of the Trump Organisation put in front of you. And if you want to get a good deal for your country irrespective of what sphere of influence you belong to, build a Trump Tower and pay Trump some hard cash. Gosh, even North Korea can apply.

 

So, what do you think China are gonna to do in the long term strategic interests of the CCP now knowing that bribery is the name of the game in the White House now? Those Chinese know a thing or two about bribery, you know.

[Morch]

21 hours ago, bassman said:

China has been slapping Obama around for 8 years, time for that to stop.  Think China will refuse Trump steps when he lands in China?  We all seen that shaming of Obama...and it was so sad.

 

And all the libos talk about Trump not working with the State Dept., when we all know how corrupt, crooked and stupid that organization has been for the last 8 years.  State needs reformed ASAP, they are not qualified to talk to themselves, intelligently.

 

And as far as protocol goes, when did the last president (before the apologist) praise the commies in Cuba?

 

 

 

The US foreign policy with regard to the PRC (and specifically, the question of Taiwan) is not a liberal construct, not even a Democratic party one. It's been in place for quite a while now, even through terms of Republican presidents. Apparently, anyone or anything not falling in line with Trump cheerleading is labeled "corrupt", "crooked", clueless or weak. The next thing you know, Trump supporters go on about then nasty democrats and liberals labeling them. Go figure.

[Morch]

14 hours ago, Trouble said:

Please do explain how the Republic of China is not a legal country and never was. Seems like your definition of a legal country is one which changes by the whim of other nations rather than being that of a self governing entity.  If my memory serves me correctly it was recognized by the international community, and held a place on the Security Council of the UN.  It was when the relations with China improved that the US just dumped Taiwan as being no longer needed when it was expedient to do so.  It was as much as embarrassment as our Congress not providing money to South Vietnam in 1975 after 58,000 men died fighting a war.  This type of state department behavior is exactly the reason many don't trust the US as an ally. I would hate to the be the rebel fighters that we have supported and encouraged in Syria when Assad and Russia finally defeat ISIS and start on the rebels that we have supported.  Surely the US will pack up and run for the hills. 

 

Maybe some people elected Trump to shake up things a bit.  It's about time we had someone who thinks outside the box.  Our foreign policy has been in shambles for decades and hopefully we have someone at the helm who can get it straightened out. I'm certainly not worried that China is going to do anything reckless.  They have been calculated in their movements in the South China Sea and will push until stopped.  That's the way they operate.  Economically both the US and China have economic interests.  Neither country is foolish and maybe it is time the Taiwan situation was brought up and things discussed again so it can eventually be brought to a close. China has been blackmailing the world for decades over the issue.  

 

 

 

For the most part, that's a fair enough assessment.

Were we differ is with the "thinking outside the box" bit. Doesn't seem like there was a whole lot of that to begin with, more about "shake things up a bit". I think both are essential for anything productive to come out of it.

 

[simple1]

27 minutes ago, hdkane said:

Perhaps the most difficult aspect of the job of POTUS is the nuance of diplomacy...what might seem like an innocuous phone call congratulating him (one of dozens) can have unexpected consequences...hopefully, the significant attention paid to this small event will stress to Trump the important role advisors will play in his presidency....before every phone call with another leader, Obama is briefed about everything from the possible topics of conversation to the nuances of certain words in different cultures...regardless of the nation, there is simply no way for one person to function independently as a leader...news outlets have reported that Trump has forgone daily briefings from the state department because he has not "officially" taken over at POTUS...moreover, he has always enjoyed the privilege of being autonomous in his daily activities...those days are over, possibly forever...everyone everywhere should hope that Trump is a quick study...

 

It has now been reported Trump's advisors had planned 'talking points' for the call for months, the call was not spontaneous .

 

 

[Morch]

13 hours ago, NeverSure said:

What Trump could do and might, is form an alliance against China with the following countries:

 

1.  India which HATES China, is a US ally, has a military and nukes. It's also geographically close.

 

2.  Russia which HATES China and would also like to form a defense. It's also dangerously close to China.

 

3.  Japan which HATES China but has little military and no nukes. It is however a manufacturing powerhouse and has the potential of military bases up close and personal.

 

4. The US, of course.

 

Even without any puzzy W. European countries involved you'd have China cornered. Now you could defend the S C Sea and anything else you wanted to. You'd really put the screws to the bully.

 

Cheers.

 

Russia isn't all too friendly with Japan, and if memory serves, just had a memorandum signed with the PRC about oil/gas supply. The obvious carrots the US might offer involves lifting of sanctions and accepting Russian gains in the ME (mainly Syria) and Europe (mainly Ukraine). That could cause some friction with current allies. Some posters may dismiss it out of hand in favor of a new global realignment, but things are usually more complicated than computer simulation games.

 

India is pretty much doing its own thing, and while it sees itself as competing with the PRC, that's been overall rather mild with less by way of open confrontation and outright hostility. For India to firmly align against the PRC, there will be need of carrots, and here the carrots could  run in direct opposition to Trump's economy related statements.

 

Japan, while very weary of the PRC is perhaps less inclined to risk an outright confrontation. As being much closer to the PRC, and less able to fend for itself, it will need some strong assurances of US support. This again, is not quite what Trump was on about with regard to present US allies.

 

IMO, the only thing which may bring about closer cooperation as you suggest is the PRC dramatically accelerating its South China Sea expansionism, especially with regard to military presence and moves. Right now, they still seem to be keeping it at a pace which allows for objections, indignation and resistance to quiet down before making another step. In that sense, Trump's statements with regard to the US backing off from trade agreements, and raising tariffs etc. might play in the PRC favor.

[wwest5829]

23 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

 

And how would you know that, since not all eligible citizens voted, and lying Hilary just got a small majority of the popular vote of those that voted.

 

So I look forward to a link to a credible source that confirms your superior knowledge

 

There are numerous public ally available scourges confirming the Trump did not receive the majority of eleigible citizen voters endorsement. You are looking to deny the facts. Try reading. That said, neither major political party presented viable candidates to win my vote. Our system has Trump as President-Elect ... that is fact. He is elected without the majority of eligible citizen votes, that too is fact.

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, Geoffggi said:

I really do wish people would stop Trump bashing before he has had a chance to show what he can do, talk about "Spoilt Brat Syndrome" (It's my bat and ball and if you don't play to my rules we won't play at all) just because he won't cow tail to what the "Old Boys" want, he is not being given a chance; give the man every opportunity before finding him guilty prior to the offence, I personally wish him all the best of luck and hope he really does well also kicks the establishment's ass..!!!

 

I agree, this is Trump's ship now and he has to be allowed to steer it where he wants to.  The abyss is out there and he can either head for it or away from it.  If he wants to go toe to toe with China then so be it.  It is his call. 

[Morch]

8 hours ago, NeverSure said:

Here's Trump's latest tweet about this on Twitter. It's obvious that Trump has disdain for the MSM and is going directly to the people. Good for him. NOW do you think Trump or his highly experienced advisers are afraid of China?

 

"Did China ask us if it was OK to devalue their currency (making it hard for our companies to compete), heavily tax our products going into their country (the U.S. doesn't tax them) or to build a massive military complex in the middle of the South China Sea? I don't think so!"

 

Which "highly experienced advisers" are referred to? Not baiting, inquiring.

[Morch]

On 12/4/2016 at 8:46 AM, Dagnabbit said:

Liberals are unbelievable.

 

They make heroes of Che Guevara, Fidel Castro and Pablo Escobar. They call CEOs greedy but laud overpaid Hollywood stars. And now they side with China...

 

They think that the US should bow down to a Communist regime and not speak to the leaders of a true democracy.

 

Screw China, seriously. Taiwan is a great country, not a pariah state. 

 

I rather think posts filled with such nonsense blanket statements are unbelievable. Yet apparently some do believe in them. Or are at least so obsessed with partisanship to accept them.

[Morch]

On 12/4/2016 at 9:19 AM, impulse said:

 

Or maybe we should realize that this war isn't like the last ones, it's a fight for jobs and resources and food and technology.  Basically, our way of life.

 

Read Tsun Tsu and you'll realize that China doesn't plan to follow any rules in this war, regardless of what agreements they sign onto.

 

Edit:  But they'll squeal like little girls and make all kinds of threats any time we break any rules.

 

If the PRC is playing a long game, and references to the Art of War are made - doubt that Trump's flaunting of diplomatic protocol plays much to the US advantage or provides evidence for any well thought out counter-strategy.

 

Fair enough to say that the PRC will keep any rule as long as it fits their goals, and disregard others. I don't see the "squealing" as being any different, though. Just another diplomatic move, not genuine indignation. They do seem to have both plan and patience.

[Morch]

On 12/4/2016 at 8:21 AM, Luckysilk said:

Nice to see President Elect stand up to China.

 

Taiwan should be recognized as a sovereign nation.

 

Thank You President Elect Trump.

 

Does Taiwan actually wish to be recognized as a sovereign nation by the US?