24 hour immigration registration

[Zappo]

I rent a couple of rai just outside Pattaya. On that land I sold an built 16 houses. ALL houses are bought and owned by farangs. My company is leasing this land from a thai landlord. I charge the house owners for land rent only.

Today we tried to help one of the house owners with a 90 days address renewal. we should not had done that.

The answer from immigration officer is as follows:

The house owner did not report to immigration that he moved in to his own house and therefore must pay a fine of 4.000 THB.

I have according to law the responsibility to register as well within 24 hours. I must pay a fine of 1.600 THB.

Immigration tells me that they will come visit my house area to collect a lot of fines (money in pocket) I suppose. 4.000 from each house owner and 1.600 for each house from me. They are all here on tourist visa.

The say they also come for visit to possibly arrest me. Why, and why me? Is it reasonable to arrest someone for a "possible" crime like this?

Now, the BIG question, hopefully someone can answer, is: I am NOT the owner of any of those houses. How can I then possibly be responsible for the house owners negligence of reporting 24 hour rule?

If I am responsible than EVERY manager of villages are responsible to do the same, ALL juristic persons of condos would also become responsible. Right?

[ubonjoe]

What your status here. Do you have a work permit for what you are doing?

Not sure they can fine you for not doing the reporting since all you are doing is leasing the land.

Perhaps you should look at section 38 that has the requirements for reporting and section 77 of the immigration act. Download: Immigration Act B.E. 2522, English translation  or Immigration Act B.E. 2522 Thai text

Section 77 sets the max fine for a home owner at 2000 baht. For a business it is a fine of 2000 baht to a max of 10,000 baht.

I think you have a situation that requires legal assistance.

[Zappo]

I have a work permit, marriage visa and it is my thai wife who is officially running the house area.

I read the law all ready and it clearly says it is the house owners responsibility. I told that to immigration officer but she ignored it.

Thai immigration seems to enforce their personal rules, not the law.

[stevenl]

Your wife is running it, don't get directly involved.

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[Zappo]

Seems I can not avoid getting involved. Immigration targeted me at once and nothing I say or do can change that.

[Maestro]

Refuse to pay the fines.

Call the immigration hotline 1178 to report this abuse of authority by an immigration officer.

Report the abuse also in writing on www.1111.go.th and on http://www.ombudsman.go.th

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[jossthaifarang]

Get a lawyer mate, they will sort it out in no time..

[boooker]

First of all you not the land owner thats your wife i assume in a private ltd.secondly if you build a company and lease the land and then provide house rental or sale ...then both act are apply different ....for example you buy the land sale the condos to foreigner them the duty of report lay by each individual not with you.You need to call the immigration to report it ..like it been said before.Or get a lawyer....anyhow it your situation as declared you not responsible for report them only if you gave it for rent

[BlindMagician]

Help help I broke the law and have been caught.

[craigt3365]

I was at the immigration office in Jomtien 2 weeks ago.  A guy was there with his Thai wife doing his annual visa extension based on marriage.  The official asked where he lived.  He said in my wife's house.  They asked the Thai wife if he was registered to live there.  No.  So, off they went to a back office.  We left, so don't know the outcome, but seems they are cracking down on this.  A new source of revenue for them????

[AlQaholic]

First, It is illegal for foreigners to own houses in Thailand. So there cannot be any house owners on your land that are foreigners, unless they own the houses using a Thai registered company, in which case the companies own the houses.

 

You need a lawyer, having some experience with lawyers in the Pattaya area, I recommend you do not contact any Lawyer from Pattaya, they are all working together/colluding within a corrupt system to extract maximum money from any foreigner stupid enough to use their services, instead contact your Embassy and get a lawyer from Bkk recommended by your Embassy, most Embassies have a list on their web sites.

 

It is primarily your wife who is in trouble, not you. Again it is very important you contact a Good lawyer immediately!

 

 

[Anythingleft?]

This has been bought up before I know but the form on arrival at the airport covers this, nobody is expected to unpack in the hotel or house then trot down immigration to sign in - are they? Am I missing or not understanding the process in some way?

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[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

First, It is illegal for foreigners to own houses in Thailand.

Not exactly correct. Foreigners cannot own land but can own a house on land from a lease or usufunk.

[AlQaholic]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not exactly correct. Foreigners cannot own land but can own a house on land from a lease or usufunk.

Yes, correct, my mistake, being a bit sloppy about the details. Of course each house has to be registered with the land office with a 30 year lease or a usufunk, right?

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Anythingleft? said:

This has been bought up before I know but the form on arrival at the airport covers this, nobody is expected to unpack in the hotel or house then trot down immigration to sign in - are they? Am I missing or not understanding the process in some way?

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There is a requirement under the immigration act that the owner. house master and etc of a residence to report a foreigner's presence within 24 hours of arriving at the residence.

[Anythingleft?]

There is a requirement under the immigration act that the owner. house master and etc of a residence to report a foreigner's presence within 24 hours of arriving at the residence.

Thank you, if the house/land is in a couples company so the foreigner is stated as a shareholder then is this still applicable?
I know it becomes a technicality but does the rule still apply
As a side comment I went to Jomtien last week for a visa extension and was not queried at all so maybe there is something particular that the officials look for or just pot luck on the day?

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[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, Anythingleft? said:

Thank you, if the house/land is in a couples company so the foreigner is stated as a shareholder then is this still applicable?
I know it becomes a technicality but does the rule still apply

The home owner would be responsible for the report. If under a company the authorized person would be responsible to do the report. The owner of the land if on a lease would not be responsible.

[kovaltech]

Doesn't it depends on the registration of the house in the "blue book" ?

Who is registered as the house owner in the Tabien baan where as the foreigner/tourist resides ?

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, kovaltech said:

Doesn't it depends on the registration of the house in the "blue book" ?

Who is registered as the house owner in the Tabien baan where as the foreigner/tourist resides ?

If a Thai owns the house it would be the owner or housemaster. Or it can be the possessor of the house by way of rental or lease agreement.

A house book for a foreigner that owns a house, condo and etc their name would not be shown in the house book. But they would be responsible for the reporting since they are the owner/possessor.

[kovaltech]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If a Thai owns the house it would be the owner or housemaster. Or it can be the possessor of the house by way of rental or lease agreement.

A house book for a foreigner that owns a house, condo and etc their name would not be shown in the house book. But they would be responsible for the reporting since they are the owner/possessor.

Indeed my point, who's officially registered as owner/leaseholder/longtime rent is the question.

 

Further: all "long time" lease or rental contracts, must be registered and tax payed for ( longer then 3 years if i recollect correct)

All contracts must be bearing a tax/timbre according to the value

 

and so on... 

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, kovaltech said:

Indeed my point, who's officially registered as owner/leaseholder/longtime rent is the question.

 

Further: all "long time" lease or rental contracts, must be registered and tax payed for ( longer then 3 years if i recollect correct)

All contracts must be bearing a tax/timbre according to the value

 

and so on... 

Even for a month to month rental agreement the possessor can be considered responsible for the reporting.

The 3 years is only for land leases if I recall correctly.

The owner of a property is responsible for paying taxes on any in income earned from it.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, AlQaholic said:

First, It is illegal for foreigners to own houses in Thailand. So there cannot be any house owners on your land that are foreigners, unless they own the houses using a Thai registered company, in which case the companies own the houses.

 

 

 

Utter nonsense.. I wonder why people have this knee jerk reaction to post information they clearly dont know anything about. 

 

Owning a house, as separate and distinct from the land it sits on, is entirely legal and normal. 

 

In the OPs case it would seem clear he has leased the land, and is not liable for house master reporting. I agree its complicated as it means the farangs are individually responsible for house master reporting, a situation that immigration is trying to avoid, they want the 'thai' owner of house / land / etc to report. This is a recent re-application of the old laws and is being handled differently by different officers even at different times of the day it seems. 

 

Either pay the bribes or lawyer up. Both have downsides / risks.

[roath]

1 hour ago, AlQaholic said:

First, It is illegal for foreigners to own houses in Thailand. So there cannot be any house owners on your land that are foreigners, unless they own the houses using a Thai registered company, in which case the companies own the houses.

 

You need a lawyer, having some experience with lawyers in the Pattaya area, I recommend you do not contact any Lawyer from Pattaya, they are all working together/colluding within a corrupt system to extract maximum money from any foreigner stupid enough to use their services, instead contact your Embassy and get a lawyer from Bkk recommended by your Embassy, most Embassies have a list on their web sites.

 

It is primarily your wife who is in trouble, not you. Again it is very important you contact a Good lawyer immediately!

 

 

Wrong....it is perfectly legal for foreigners to own houses in Thailand. You can even register ownership of the house at the Amphur. What is not legal is to own land (although there are a few exceptions).   If you don't know the law, don't make statements which are wrong and misleading.

 

You say don't use a local lawyer, but often these are the people who have local contacts who can deal with things, whereas lawyers in BKK are (in this context) "outsiders". The law here is not consistently applied, and whilst I do not have a lot of time for the professional standards of Thai lawyers, you have to work with what you can get, and you can find reasonable lawyers all over Thailand. Generalisations don't help

[williamgeorgeallen]

you need to get a lawyer immediately.  here is the lawyer i use

http://www.pattayasolicitors.com/

she will help negotiate a fair fine. does not matter if you did anything wrong. if or when they turn up dont give them your passport but make sure you have photo copies and say your passport is being stored in a safety deposit box some where. they will try to take it from you and hold it which they have no right to do. 

i have been through something like this before and they held my passport for 2 years. you dont want to end up in that situation. PM me if you have any questions. PLEASE LISTEN TO ME WHEN I SAY GET A LAWYER IMMEDIATELY.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Anythingleft? said:

This has been bought up before I know but the form on arrival at the airport covers this, nobody is expected to unpack in the hotel or house then trot down immigration to sign in - are they? Am I missing or not understanding the process in some way?

 

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

There is a requirement under the immigration act that the owner. house master and etc of a residence to report a foreigner's presence within 24 hours of arriving at the residence.

 

 

If Chiang Mai officials information is to be trusted they maintain that the TM30 is the house master / landlords job.. the TM28 is the rentors / tenants job. The TM28 has to 'match' a equivalent TM30 registered in the computer, so they cannot match a TM28 done alone, without the previously done TM30.

 

Capt Tissaporn said, when I pointed out the utter impracticality of this that "we dont intend to be 'too strong' abot TM28s".. er.. yeah.. great.. 

 

So its enforcement is not current but that is the law. 

[mettech]

That 24 hours reporting is all new to me  I got in on October 02-16 did a visa run to Cambodia and returned to Thailand and fill up form for address where I am going in presence of the house owner in that case my common law dual citizen Thai/Canadian.

Was not asked if I had reported to Immigration.

Now I am going to immigration again for a extension of 30 days and do I to expect a fine since I or she did not go to Immigration and report my stay since.???

They are making life very uncomfortable for us these days.

[LivinLOS]

1 minute ago, mettech said:

Now I am going to immigration again for a extension of 30 days and do I to expect a fine since I or she did not go to Immigration and report my stay since.???

They are making life very uncomfortable for us these days.

Sadly the problem is no 2 officers or officers seem to treat it the same way. 

 

I posted about this when it first began in Chiang Mai and was shouted down how it wasnt real, was a storm in a teacup, gone by next month etc.. Despite things like immigration having gone to the trouble of printing dual language leaflets and clearly believing themselves it would not. Now its spread to large swathes of the country, fines are firmer, and yet the rules or immigrations understanding of them are no more concrete. 

 

Legally a renter must do a TM28.. The TM30, and its fines, are for the house owner.. They have stretched that to include the Thai wives of farangs (why god knows, my wife isnt mentioned on my contract, doesnt pay the bills, and is not in any way in the chain) even for rentals or, understandably, when the wifes the house owner. 

 

Turned into a nice little revenue source. 

[inzman]

The Thai govt now is enforcing the law of reporting within 24 hours. Even if you do a one day trip outside the country. But Jomtien immigration is making it almost impossible by also requiring the owner of the house to report. Even a rental contract is not accepted. It must be the owners house book. They are making  it as difficult as they can and the reason, collecting fines! Revenue is down, they are looking at all new revenue streams. We are pawns in this game with no recourse. 

[abrahamzvi]

1 hour ago, AlQaholic said:

First, It is illegal for foreigners to own houses in Thailand. So there cannot be any house owners on your land that are foreigners, unless they own the houses using a Thai registered company, in which case the companies own the houses.

 

You need a lawyer, having some experience with lawyers in the Pattaya area, I recommend you do not contact any Lawyer from Pattaya, they are all working together/colluding within a corrupt system to extract maximum money from any foreigner stupid enough to use their services, instead contact your Embassy and get a lawyer from Bkk recommended by your Embassy, most Embassies have a list on their web sites.

 

It is primarily your wife who is in trouble, not you. Again it is very important you contact a Good lawyer immediately!

 

 

I fully agree that the OP needs a lawyer to sort the whole matter up. What is his work permit for?

One point I have to correct you is the question of ownership of houses. A foreigner can own buildings, but not land. If the land is leased with a proper contact (presently maximum period of 30 years), then the houses can be owned by foreigners. 

Must admit the whole issue here is not clear and there must be something here that has to be sorted out immediately.

[Anythingleft?]

That 24 hours reporting is all new to me  I got in on October 02-16 did a visa run to Cambodia and returned to Thailand and fill up form for address where I am going in presence of the house owner in that case my common law dual citizen Thai/Canadian.
Was not asked if I had reported to Immigration.
Now I am going to immigration again for a extension of 30 days and do I to expect a fine since I or she did not go to Immigration and report my stay since.???
They are making life very uncomfortable for us these days.

Again, if you are lucky that day nobody will say a thing and all will be stamped as usual. Like I suggested earlier maybe there is something that triggers a different response from the immigration, hard to believe though more than likely it is just random depending on the officer and the time of day
Out of interest it would be entertaining to know just how many people actually do the 24hr reporting correctly

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