Bike for a complete newbie (almost)

[Still Living]

3 hours ago, AllanB said:

 

A CRF250 is pretty tall, I have a Lifan Cross and people say I look okay (size wise) on it, or the Kawa KLX250, that sort of thing.

 

These bikes are very nippy in the traffic, great fun to ride and you can see over the top of the traffic... and you will be very visible, not a bad thing in BKK. ... and they handle speed bumps, ruts, drain grates and potholes with ease, again, not a bad thing.

 

You can do a bit of green-laning/dirt roading at the weekend a great way of learning control.

 

I haven't, but maybe get some road tyres....and you will need a rucksack, no storage.

 

Good for your image too, if , like most people on this forum, you are aesthetically challenged...........that rufty-tufty dirt bike rider look.... girls go for that a lot, I am fighting them off.

 

Great bikes! Would love a crf250! If I was in Thailand I would buy one. Seems Thailand, Cambodia and Philippines have plenty of dual sport options but not here in Vietnam. Would have to import one. 

 

If if I had a dual sport I probably wouldn't have crashed last night! ?

[AllanB]

If if I had a dual sport I probably wouldn't have crashed last night! ?

 

Just up the road from me someone drove over newly laid concrete before it was dry, left 4 deep tyre tracks about 15 degrees to the road. First time I hit them on the Honda Wave almost came a cropper, poo almost came out, that sort of thing.

 

Came home late one night, pitch dark and rode over them on the dirtbike, didn't notice a thing. big Knobbly tyres, the dog's <deleted> on anything but a racetrack.

 

The choice is yours OP, buy a dirt bike or soil your trousers.  

Edited December 18, 2016 by AllanB

[fullcave]

On 12/17/2016 at 4:45 PM, AllanB said:

 

A CRF250 is pretty tall, I have a Lifan Cross and people say I look okay (size wise) on it, or the Kawa KLX250, that sort of thing.

 

These bikes are very nippy in the traffic, great fun to ride and you can see over the top of the traffic... and you will be very visible, not a bad thing in BKK. ... and they handle speed bumps, ruts, drain grates and potholes with ease, again, not a bad thing.

 

You can do a bit of green-laning/dirt roading at the weekend a great way of learning control.

 

I haven't, but maybe get some road tyres....and you will need a rucksack, no storage.

 

Good for your image too, if , like most people on this forum, you are aesthetically challenged...........that rufty-tufty dirt bike rider look.... girls go for that a lot, I am fighting them off.

 

Honda wave fits pretty good..;)  

[siamcrut]

"10 km daily commuting in Bgkk
and 190 cm tall...":
Well, I would either go for a
Honda Wave 125i for commuting and buying groceries, or a
Honda CB500X
with a Hepco & Becker top pannier perfect for commuting and buying your groceries plus you can do solo day trips outside Bangkok.
Honda Africa Twin, BMW GS or Ducati if money really isn't an issue...
Regarding safety, take it easy with the throttle and start riding solo on an early Sunday morning...


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[ardokano]

Honda wave, click, psx etc..duke 390 or second hand 796. For city it's fine be..

[AllanB]

Yes lads these are similar bikes for the BKK melay....Honda Wave, Click, CB500 with some big boxes, Duke 390 (for a tall guy), 796 and also for this "Newbie" a Honda Africa Twin, BMW GS or Ducati, a choice to die for.

 

What were you two guys drinking over Christmas, whatever it was it is time for a change to something kinder to your grey matter.

[ardokano]

31 minutes ago, AllanB said:

Yes lads these are similar bikes for the BKK melay....Honda Wave, Click, CB500 with some big boxes, Duke 390 (for a tall guy), 796 and also for this "Newbie" a Honda Africa Twin, BMW GS or Ducati, a choice to die for.

 

What were you two guys drinking over Christmas, whatever it was it is time for a change to something kinder to your grey matter.

Ha ha.why it's "choice to die for"

796 I do not know any bike, more friendly for newbie. And it's not only me say it.If you can't learn on 796. I guess better no need for guy bike:)

use tuk tuck it's fine . Or scooter 110-150cc..

[wheelin]

If you're not yet confused by various comments, I've one more suggestion for you, wannabebiker.  Get a second hand CB or CBR 300.  Any thing less will not have sufficient power to carry your weight.  I suggest a second hand bike, since this will be your learning bike, and you''ll  not loose much when you want to sell it to upgrade.   Honda is a good bike that you'll not go wrong.  The CBR 300 outsell all other brands by far, so there must be a reason for it.

 

It's not that difficult to sift through a good second hand bike. Just be careful when inspecting the bike.  Buy from the first owner, with < 12,000 km. on the odometer, and it must be in condition near to new bike,  with no accident or fall.  Have the bike held straight up, and look from the front to see that front and rear wheels are perfectly  aligned.  Insist on ride testing the bike. The handling and brakes should function flawlessly. The bike should feel neutral and do left and right circle easily. Clutch and brake levers shoul be properly adjusted. Gears mustbe easy to shift through.  All  signal lights should function, and the engine must start with first push of the start button.  Don't consider a bike in need of repair. Despite close inspection,  later you'll probably find out other items that need to be fixed.  I prefer to buy from a Farang, from Craiglist or Thaivisa.

 

A very good to excellent CBR/CB 300, not more than 2 years old, should cost around ฿82,000 Bahts +or - ฿2,000 bahts.  Finally, insist that the owner go to the Dept of Transportation to complete transfer of title, before you make the payment.  This will eliminate unwanted hassle.

Edited January 2, 2017 by wheelin
To correct mis-typed.

[ardokano]

Cb300 or my god what it's be  much different with wave? Second hand wave 10-25k easy can find:)

[wheelin]

wannabebiker

  I'm 1.90m and 120kg by the way. 

 

A Second hand Wave is going to struggle with the load, and will be no fun for a  'complete newbie (almost)".

[ardokano]

18 minutes ago, wheelin said:

wannabebiker

  I'm 1.90m and 120kg by the way. 

 

A Second hand Wave is going to struggle with the load, and will be no fun for a  'complete newbie (almost)".

I am 189cm and near 100 kg

what kind fun you talking on cbr300?? CBR 300 slow as hell.. not far from wave..

 

[AllanB]

A Second hand Wave is going to struggle with the load, and will be no fun for a  'complete newbie (almost)".  Are you kidding it has the same carrying capacity of a LWB Transit Van, with a trailer?

 

I am 189cm and near 100 kg

what kind fun you talking on cbr300?? CBR 300 slow as hell.. not far from wave..

Yes, plus the Wave won't break down ....and I am only 183 and the CB300 is way too cramped for me, so I bought a dirtbike.... which isn't.

 

A 795  

A Duke 795 "Monkey bike".....this isn't really a "Monster" unless you are Danny Divito.

 

Get a second hand CB or CBR 300. 

Yes, one that has hacked off the previous owner and is glad to get shot.

 

Actually the Filano we just bought is a good choice, not cramped, easy to ride a reasonable amount of power with it's 125cc via a torque converter. We just did the Mae Hong Loop 2 up with luggage, over the high mountain route, no problems...and it's 50k baht new. Get a bit of experience and buy then something sporty for the rides out later on.

Edited January 3, 2017 by AllanB

[canthai55]

A torque converter is a type of fluid coupling that is used to transfer rotating power from a prime mover, such as an internal combustion engine, to a rotating driven load.

 

A centrifugal clutch is a clutch that uses centrifugal force to connect two concentric shafts, with the driving shaft nested inside the driven shaft. It engages more at higher speeds. The input of the clutch is connected to the engine crankshaft while the output may drive a shaft, chain, or belt

 

Your Filano has the second type

 

 

Edited January 3, 2017 by canthai55

[Rhys]

thus what shall it be?  on the pegs.

[JAFO]

Man.......... Tough call.  Clearly the OP wants a "True universal" commute and weekend get out of town moto.   My experience; clutching around town through BKK traffic coupled with the electric fan cycling on and off will grow thin after awhile ( even more so when summer comes). I have done it on a RVF400 and it was not much fun. If you look at the 300 class they are nimble and manageable but not as nimble as say a Honda Wave 125 especially when the commute distance is only 5kms and speeds will never see range from 5km to tops of 35km

 

IMHO OP, If you really want to go ride on the weekend for fun and commute around BKK traffic just buy 2 Moto's. For appx 230K baht or so you can have a new Yamaha R3 or CBR or the other 300's mentioned above for the get out of town moto and the Wave 125 for the bouncing around traffic. I have both and am glad I do. The Wave is so much more relaxing in traffic and I am not as worried about someone clipping me on my R3. Plus Its nice to walk down and do a quick run on the Wave to the market or local store plus you have storage that the 300 class bikes do not and you do not want to add that big clugey black bucket on the back of a new R3 or CBR. 

 

As for Helmets, spend the money for an Arai or Shoei helmet. They are DOT approved. Get a good well ventilated one. Also get some good gloves where they have Kevlar at the knuckles for protection. I am sure there are some posters here that can refer you to some local places to buy the gear.

 

Good Luck

 

 

[canthai55]

If you want a bike to do 2 or 3 different tasks - you must be willing to accept compromise. As JAFO noted above, two bikes are the answer. A town bike - cheap, nimble, lots of storage. And a weekend bike - comfortable to cruise on all day and with enuf power to keep ahead of most traffic. I found that I could not do it with just 2, so bought a CRF last year. As I live in the mountains I can now access roads in poor shape, and with a lot less effort than having to manhandle a bigger bike in the twisties - some of which are 20kph corners.

[JAFO]

18 hours ago, canthai55 said:

If you want a bike to do 2 or 3 different tasks - you must be willing to accept compromise. As JAFO noted above, two bikes are the answer. A town bike - cheap, nimble, lots of storage. And a weekend bike - comfortable to cruise on all day and with enuf power to keep ahead of most traffic. I found that I could not do it with just 2, so bought a CRF last year. As I live in the mountains I can now access roads in poor shape, and with a lot less effort than having to manhandle a bigger bike in the twisties - some of which are 20kph corners.

 

I'd love a Kawi 250 enduro type moto. I grew up on dirt bikes. I mention it around my wife and she looks at me like I am nuts. But the OP lives in downtown BKK so a dirt bike really wouldn't be suitable as in a pinch he can do all that curb jumping and sidewalk riding on the Wave....LOL!!!

Edited January 4, 2017 by JAFO

[AllanB]

On 03/01/2017 at 1:08 PM, canthai55 said:

A torque converter is a type of fluid coupling that is used to transfer rotating power from a prime mover, such as an internal combustion engine, to a rotating driven load.

 

A centrifugal clutch is a clutch that uses centrifugal force to connect two concentric shafts, with the driving shaft nested inside the driven shaft. It engages more at higher speeds. The input of the clutch is connected to the engine crankshaft while the output may drive a shaft, chain, or belt

 

Your Filano has the second type

 

 

No, you are wrong, a torque converter is a mechanical method of converting low torque to high torque and a CVT (constant variable transmission) is a common example of that. This proportional device achieves this by pushing the belt further out on the drive pulley and further in the driven pulley, effecting a variance in I/O ratio. 

 

A centrifugal clutch is a clutch that engages when it rotates beyond the engagement rpm (though some slippage is permissible), it is an on/off device, the Finano has a CVT instead of a conventional gearbox and chain.

 

The fluid type torque converter you refer to has a fixed I/O ratio and generally works in conjunction with a gearbox, usually an auto-box.

[canthai55]

^^^  555 Argue with Wiki

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_converter

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_clutch

Edited January 4, 2017 by canthai55

[canthai55]

On 1/3/2017 at 10:57 AM, AllanB said:

Actually the Filano we just bought is a good choice, not cramped, easy to ride a reasonable amount of power with it's 125cc via a torque converter.

 

This is the post to which I replied.

A centrifugal clutch is a component of a CVT transmission, which your Filano and my PCX is equipped with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission

[AllanB]

Wikipedia pa! A bunch of pen-pushers who know nothing themselves.

 

I used to build off-road Karts and Dune Buggies in the 80's and we fitted these units, imported from the USA, similar to these  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Torque-converter-3-4-Bore-35-Chain-12T-Replaces-218352-For-Go-Kart-Mini-Bike-/171624672975?hash=item27f5a0aecf:g:1cIAAOSwRLZT~4Bl

 

Saying a centrifugal clutch is the same as a CVT because it is contained within one, is like saying a clutch is the same a gearbox.

Edited January 5, 2017 by AllanB

[canthai55]

Don't care what the Chinese - who made the product in your link - call it. That is not a torque converter.

What is the torque converter?

In brief, the torque converter is a type of fluid coupling, which allows the engine to spin somewhat independently of the transmission. It is responsible for pressurizing automatic transmission fluid, a pressurization that supplies the force necessary to shift transmission gears.

 

[AllanB]

9 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Don't care what the Chinese - who made the product in your link - call it. That is not a torque converter.

What is the torque converter?

In brief, the torque converter is a type of fluid coupling, which allows the engine to spin somewhat independently of the transmission. It is responsible for pressurizing automatic transmission fluid, a pressurization that supplies the force necessary to shift transmission gears.

 

This is nonsense, it is an American product and in 1989 when I started buying them they were built in the USA, that is what they call them. Whilst I am not a Yank, the description clearly fits what it does, it converts low torque high rpm to high torque low rpm. They also call them CVTs.

 

If I remember correctly, the first time I heard the expression CVT was when Dutch manufacturer Daff used them on their Daffodil, but they were not automatic. You pulled a lever back to engage and start off and continued pulling back as the car sped up. So to my way of thinking a CVT is a manual version of a torque converter, but that is old school me. so I am not just being awkward here.

 

As I have tried to explain, there is more than one type of torque converter, please try to register that and move on. I think most others have that on board, so have a happy new year.

Edited January 6, 2017 by AllanB

[guzzi850m2]

Yes it's called a CVT transmission.

http://www.scooterunderground.com/knowledge/faq/CVTScooterTransmission.htm

 

Okay now back to topic which was what bike for an almost newbie.

[BaldPlumber]

Honda wave.

A two wheeled tractor.

I defy anyone to wear one out to the point where it can't be fixed for a few baht by any roadside motorbike shack.

Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk

[canthai55]

I rest my case ...

The clutch allows the scooter to idle with the engine running by isolating the rear wheel from the transmission. It operates in much the same way as the variator, being of a centrifugal design. As you twist the throttle, the engine increases its speed and the belt drive spins the clutch. As the rotational speed increases, centrifugal force causes the clutch inner to expand, and begin driving the clutch outer, which is connected to the rear wheel

Correct info is essential for those not conversant on the subject.

Edited January 6, 2017 by canthai55

[AllanB]

On 07/01/2017 at 6:48 AM, canthai55 said:

I rest my case ...

The clutch allows the scooter to idle with the engine running by isolating the rear wheel from the transmission. It operates in much the same way as the variator, being of a centrifugal design. As you twist the throttle, the engine increases its speed and the belt drive spins the clutch. As the rotational speed increases, centrifugal force causes the clutch inner to expand, and begin driving the clutch outer, which is connected to the rear wheel

Correct info is essential for those not conversant on the subject.

You are describing a separate (mechanical) centrifugal clutch, but that is not how a CVT (or a torque converter, or indeed variator) works, so before you rest your case do read......

http://www.scooterunderground.com/knowledge/faq/CVTScooterTransmission.htm

In essence....During "idle" the belt is free to slip on the driver pulley, until the engine rpm increases sufficiently and the belt is collected and driven. 

[canthai55]

http://www.cyclepedia.com/scooter-servic/

 

Read 'The Clutch' in the link you posted above

Edited January 8, 2017 by canthai55

[AllanB]

On 08/01/2017 at 5:56 PM, canthai55 said:

http://www.cyclepedia.com/scooter-servic/

 

Read 'The Clutch' in the link you posted above

 

Okay, I stand corrected, things have moved on and it does appear that they do now use a separate clutch rather than the belt itself. Also under those circumstances the term CVT would seem more appropriate, since "torque converter" would refer to the variator part only.

 

My apologies.

[canthai55]

My only point was to correct erroneous information posted here. Trying to make sure the correct info gets out to the uninitiated. Never my intention to chuck S**T. Apologize if it came out sounding like that.