Police report filed - what happens next?

[Hal65]

My Thai landlord kept my deposit because I didn't notify them far enough in advance. I wasn't too happy with the "look there's the rule on the sign" argument (there was no contract). There was an exchange of words and actually some minor physical as well (he pushed me, I pushed his hands away).

 

We ended up at the police station. Long story short, the police sided with the landlord. The landlord, now enraged, suddenly figured out a bunch of stuff wrong with the apartment totaling about 2500 baht and demanded I pay that too.

 

I know, I shouldn't have fought a Thai. This was my lesson into how Thailand works. I'm sure it won't be the only one either. I'm shaken by the pushing, public escalation on the Soi (no face concerns today), and losing despite a lack of contract. I will just walk away next time.

 

The question turns to what happens next. The landlord filed a police report against me,. In the report, his driver's license and my passport number have been recorded. No contact information was written in the report, or taken down elsewhere by the police.

 

This is scary because the landlord chuckled as the report was written, saying "you pay or I make sure you not stay in Thailand anymore."

 

I spoke to an ex-pat friend who said it sounds like this guy is going to try and make my life miserable and cause problems at immigration. Not knowing how the Thai system works, I'm not sure what that means.

 

Can anyone help me understand how these things escalate for civil cases?

 

1. How (or if) I will be notified if a lawsuit is filed against me?

 

2. Do I need to be regularly checking up with the police, immigration, or something else to figure out what is going on? The police do not have my phone number or any other contact info.

 

Thanks for any advice

Edited December 12, 2016 by Hal65

[blackcab]

OK listen to me. You need to go find your landlord, go to the police station with him, sincerely apologise and pay him. Do this immediately.

 

It is extremely bad when a Thai male loses their cool in public, especially with a non-Thai. For that to happen, in the landlord's eyes things escalated out of all proportion.

 

From your post the amount you need to pay is a few thousand baht. It's not worth what is coming your way if you don't pay.

 

The landlord can't get you deported. What they can do, which is worse, is try very hard to ensure that you are prohibited from leaving Thailand while the Court case is running.

 

In a similar case one guy was prevented from leaving Thailand for 3 years while things rumbled on. Which is quite speedy for Thailand.

 

Just about every rental contract in Thailand has a 1 month notice requirement. It's nothing new. You didn't even have a contract, and decided to argue the point anyway. If it helps you understand your situation, in my opinion you were completely wrong.

 

Sort this out today. Sincerely apologise, and that includes doing a respectful wai. If you don't, your life is going to get very messy.

 

You may also have to pay the police a small fee for their mediation services. That's just the way it is.

 

 

[Hal65]

That's scary. How does the landlord escalate the issue and how does one find out what happens?

Edited December 12, 2016 by Hal65

[The Fat Controller]

I agree with blackcab, apologise profusely, pay up and leave.

[blackcab]

14 minutes ago, Hal65 said:

That's scary. How does the landlord escalate the issue and how does one find out what happens?

 

The landlord doesn't have to do much. The Thai justice system will escalate things for him.

 

if you disappear somewhere else in Thailand and don't inform the police, the next time you visit immigration or try to leave the country there is a possibility your passport will be retained.

 

Have you even considered what you will need to pay for a lawyer and a translator yet?

[Hal65]

4 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

The landlord doesn't have to do much. The Thai justice system will escalate things for him.

 

if you disappear somewhere else in Thailand and don't inform the police, the next time you visit immigration or try to leave the country there is a possibility your passport will be retained.

 

Have you even considered what you will need to pay for a lawyer and a translator yet?

 

I will stay in Pattaya, I am not "disappearing" anywhere. Yes the legal concerns seem very real. Is this not the case for him too though? It seems outrageous for a court case to happen over about $70.

 

How does the legal system notify the parties involved?

Edited December 12, 2016 by Hal65

[blackcab]

You seem quite fixated on how things progress, rather than solving the problem.

 

If you fail to turn up at Court, that's your problem. You weren't notified? You probably were, but you never received it. Again, that's your problem. You don't read Thai? That's your problem too.

 

You clearly don't understand the seriousness of your situation or you would never have gotten to this point.

 

As I said, go fix the problem. If you choose not to do so, be prepared for what may be heading your way.

[Hal65]

Guilty as charged about the severity. I do need to understand this situation fully though. You already mentioned the non-court route but I also need to be clear on what the legal buildup entails.

 

A Thai person in my situation would have the same concern by the way. I need to know what happens next legally and who to check with (as would they)

Edited December 12, 2016 by Hal65

[blackcab]

17 minutes ago, Hal65 said:

Guilty as charged about the severity. I do need to understand this situation fully though. You already mentioned the non-court route but I also need to be clear on what the legal buildup entails.

 

A Thai person in my situation would have the same concern by the way. I need to know what happens next legally and who to check with (as would they)

 

I'm not quite sure you understand. Apologise, pay the landlord (and possibly the police), and everything goes away.

 

The longer this goes on the more expensive it will get.

 

If you are not going to do that I suggest this is serious enough that you need to get yourself a good solicitor. They will help you understand the processes and timeframes.

 

The solicitor will cost you many times what paying the landlord will cost.

 

Up to you.

[Hal65]

You already gave your path for getting this settled. This thread is about what happens next in the legal process, and I would like for us to get back on topic if anyone has gone through the process themselves.

[dotpoom]

Are you making this fuss over the 2,500 Baht for the "supposed damage" to the condo?...... Like the deposit, put it down to experience and move on.

What real chance does a Farang have of getting a deposit back froma Thai landlord, if the landlord refuses to give it....even with a contract?

[Hal65]

I'm not the one who filed the police report.

 

24 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

Are you making this fuss over the 2,500 Baht for the "supposed damage" to the condo?...... Like the deposit, put it down to experience and move on.

What real chance does a Farang have of getting a deposit back froma Thai landlord, if the landlord refuses to give it....even with a contract?

 

This part is sad although I kind of empathize now.

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

The landlord doesn't have to do much. The Thai justice system will escalate things for him.

 

if you disappear somewhere else in Thailand and don't inform the police, the next time you visit immigration or try to leave the country there is a possibility your passport will be retained.

 

Have you even considered what you will need to pay for a lawyer and a translator yet?

So you are saying this is a criminal matter rather than a civil one?

 

[blackcab]

49 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

So you are saying this is a criminal matter rather than a civil one?

 

 

It could be either. In reality it's whatever the landlord chooses it to be (assuming the alleged offence could be punished by criminal law).

 

My thinking is that if the landlord wants to apply pressure or be vindictive, it would end up as a criminal case.

 

It would be good if the OP keeps us updated so we can stay informed.

[henry15]

The OP clearly don't  listen to good advise. Up to him. Here  is an Som Namnaa story in the make.

[anon4637435435]

There is no laws here that will favor you ever. End of story.

Another poster said to take the guy to the police station and apologiz. Hes right but it will not fix all.

Befreind other neighbours, set an example of whats right and carry a gun.

Ive had a lot of experience and can tell you its easier to pay the money. Seeing your only renting it would be best to do.

[williamgeorgeallen]

my lawyer just settled something along these lines for a friend of mine. PM me if you want her contact details. she has an office beside tukcom.  you can go ask her advice and it will only cost you a small consultation fee. there is some very good advice on there but you really need someone thai with legal knowledge to fix the problem properly.

hopefully you have learned a lesson from this. just last week a cop pulled me over for turning on a red light. there was no red light. i should have said sorry and offered him 300thb but instead i argued there was no red light. result was a 1000thb fine and a long drive to the police station to pay it. then the hassle of trying to find the cop to get my licence. about 3 hours gone from my day. valuable thai visa posting time i might add.  i learnt my lesson, wont argue with a cop again. sometimes better to take a small hit and walk away from it all.

[mstevens]

40 minutes ago, henry15 said:

The OP clearly don't  listen to good advise. Up to him. Here  is an Som Namnaa story in the make.

 

The landlord has actually given the OP a very easy out but he seems to be foolishly refusing to take it.  Oh, boy, this situation could escalate out of control and now it is SO EASY to resolve.  To the OP, avoiding disputes and especially legal issues in Thailand is one of the tricks to enjoying a long, happy stay in the country.  BlackCab's advice was excellent...take it!

Edited December 13, 2016 by mstevens

[Surasak]

I had something similar a few years back. I know the contract my wife signed was for minimum 6 months. Rather than continue with the letting, we decided to end it and stay at a small hotel for the 10 days to completion of our building. The landlord refused to return the deposit, insisting the contract was for 12 months. I of course objected but my dear lady said to forget it as it would cause more trouble than the B5000 was worth. No one likes being obviously ripped off, but it is best to write it off to experience than being found staring sightless at the sky. Which road to take is a no brainer.

[NoshowJones]

11 hours ago, Hal65 said:

You already gave your path for getting this settled. This thread is about what happens next in the legal process, and I would like for us to get back on topic if anyone has gone through the process themselves.

Take Blackcabs advice, wait a good few months, or even a year, then report the landlord to the Tax Authorities, there was no contract, so it is almost certain that he was not paying his tax.

I am not one for grassing, but I am one for taking revenge if you were done wrong by anyone, he grassed you to the police, so get your revenge.

As one poster said, you were in the wrong, how much notice did you give the landlord? Going by your OP, the landlord assaulted you first, and he also knew the police would take his side, any Thai would know that, so in the end, you were done wrong where that was concerned.

[lungnorm]

The land of smiles. This guy seems experienced at bullying ferangs and knows the ropes. I would pay a few thousand baht and get him fixed up the old fashioned way.

[NoshowJones]

9 minutes ago, lungnorm said:

The land of smiles. This guy seems experienced at bullying ferangs and knows the ropes. I would pay a few thousand baht and get him fixed up the old fashioned way.

The landlord has probably been doing the police a few favours so knows they will take his side.

[williamgeorgeallen]

11 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

The landlord has probably been doing the police a few favours so knows they will take his side.

 

 

24 minutes ago, lungnorm said:

The land of smiles. This guy seems experienced at bullying ferangs and knows the ropes. I would pay a few thousand baht and get him fixed up the old fashioned way.

wonder if any of the many posters on here who gives this type of advice has ever actually done it them selves. starting a cycle of violence is a mistake. better to put the money toward solving the problem. not escalating it.

[Hal65]

It's a tough one guys. I'll probably update this thread in 3-12 months to let you know what the outcome was. I can sense that I'll need to talk to a lawyer about this, so I'll go ahead and risk derailing the thread by opening up a bit more.

 

I didn't give a notice of moveout. This was indeed my fault.

 

The landlord is a husband/wife. The wife immediately told me about the no refund of deposit rule. My neighbor alerted me to her ways, and so I told her I would go to the tourist police if she didn't give me back my deposit fairly. I actually read about that tactic on Thaivisa also (many years ago). You live and you learn.

 

She kept trying to get me to hand over the key.  We checked around the room, she wrote a reasonable receipt with reasonable fees. She then asked for the key again, and I figured it was the time to hand over the key since the receipt was already written. As soon as I gave it to her she pocketed it and told me "you can go to the police now, I'd like to talk to them." I grabbed the receipt off the desk and went to the station, very angry. She had pocketed the key in order to get me to check out early while still keeping the deposit (I had a day left)

 

A Thai cop called them and spoke for about 10 minutes. After the call, he basically repeated their rule and said he negotiated that I would not have to pay extra for the amount on the receipt. He said that they would simply accept the forfeited deposit.

 

I went back and took a lock that my knowing neighbor gave me and locked the door. The maid saw this and ran to report it to the male landlord. He ran up the stairs and grabbed me and attempted to push me against the wall. Much bigger than him, I raised my hands and let him know that if he interfered as I walked back to the police station, I might use force myself. He started yelling and everyone in the soi looked up at us, it was a real scene at that point.

 

He ran and grabbed bolt cutters from a room as I walked out. Then he chased after me in the soi still yelling. He tried to grab me and then cocked back as if to swing,  but then stopped himself.

 

Back at the station I told them what happened, including the technical assault. The police dispatcher sent 2 policemen on a motorbike and I met up with them back at the apartment. I recounted the scene, but they started speaking in Thai to the landlord who redirected their attention to the unit.  He then proceeded to overplay all these theoretical damages. Frankly I don't know how he got away with it because the policemen were looking at the unit which was in reasonable shape. Maybe the police were staying neutral, although it's hard to tell and in such a situation where you cannot speak yourself, you feel you are in a big disadvantage.

 

Both me and the landlord went back to the police station. We must've spent two or three hours there. Basically they said that the lack of contract didn't matter, because it then defaults to a sign that was in public view. The landlord was in the right. I slumped, accepting defeat. At this point they also showed a lack of interest in me pointing out the physical grabbing, and chasing with a weapon. So I was suddenly without any case.

 

The landlord went on the offensive and started demanding 5,300 baht, which was 2300 more than my deposit. he was clearly doing this out of revenge. He did take many pictures, and frankly they didn't show damage, but the police told me he was claiming everything had a foul odor. I really hope the police that went to the unit can be located to help contradict the story. I have no way of knowing how to find them again.

 

Long story short I told him I would not pay extra and he proceeded to file a police report.

 

So that is where we are now. I have no idea what happens next but I hope to find out soon after getting the report translated and figuring out how to follow up with the process. What is in the report will really guide my next decision, and I may just attempt to close it out with him.

 

I also may not to learn the full lesson. I think I would be okay spending the extra few hundred dollars as there is no better teacher than first-hand experience, and I don't want to spend the next few decades scared of the legal system, eyeing it as some black hole for ex-pats.

 

Even if I wanted to cut a deal with him though, there is a good chance he would not accept it due to the physical assault and out of his mind behavior he displayed on the soi. I'm not even sure it's safe to go down that soi anymore because the landlord has many friends and they could easily turn into a pack.

 

I should add the report was only a few paragraphs long. I would guess it focused on the deposit/demand gap from the landlord based on the length and numbers.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Hal65

[williamgeorgeallen]

well sounds like you can probably just hammer out a deal with the cops. should not cost you much really to have a clean slate.

 

[NoshowJones]

3 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

 

 

wonder if any of the many posters on here who gives this type of advice has ever actually done it them selves. starting a cycle of violence is a mistake. better to put the money toward solving the problem. not escalating it.

No, I have never done it, but I would if I was rich and someone did me a bad turn and the police just turned a blind eye to it. In all the time I have lived in Thailand, no Thai has ever done me a bad turn, unlike in the UK, the vast majority of Thai people are non confrontational. 

Back in the UK, I was a great believer in taking the law into my own hands if the police or courts let anyone off with doing a bad turn towards me.

[blackcab]

Why did you go back and put a lock on the landlord's property after you had checked out?

 

What was your reasoning?

[dentonian]

If I'm understanding this correctly, you owe 2,300 baht as claimed by the landlord for 'odours'.

 

You were clearly in the wrong initially, not being able to communicate lead to a physical confrontation.

Allowing this to escalate will cost you more in the long run.

Swallow your pride, apologise and pay up for a stress free life.

 

They have your passport number, so you can be traced through Immigration wherever you stay.

Doesn't bare well with Immigration knowing your being sued, rightly or wrongly.

[puffy]

For some unknown reason you seem to prefer to want to take this matter to court rather than resolving it.

Obviously you need to get a Lawyer. The money for the room will go to a civil court and the first step is mediation.

Many cases are resolved here, but obviously both parties will need to agree, You don't have to have a Lawyer present

at the mediation but obviously it helps. There are up to three separate rounds of mediation before a full court case, the mediation

process is likely to take more than a year. Obviously there will be costs involved every time and which will be substantially higher than the original amount, but you are aware of this and want to go ahead anyway. If you have representation at all times you will be looking at a lot more than a few hundred dollars. My best friend in Thailand is a criminal Lawyer in Thailand and when I had a civil dispute for 35000 baht she told me it would not be worth the fees to pursue it, luckily she helped me settle the matter before mediation for free. The Landlord has also pressed criminal charges against you with the assault, this will go to a criminal court, you may get nothing or a small fine depending on the Judge. You may not be allowed to leave Thailand during this time and may be blacklisted after the court case.

As you are aware there is no version of this where you come out ahead. Best case scenario massively out of pocket with legal fees, worst case even more out of pocket, Fined and blacklisted with a possibility of jail time. Good luck with your chosen course of action.

[Hal65]

The assault was him on me unless he badly construed it. His own CCTV shows who is the aggressor, though you would have to slow it down.

 

Do these escalating fees apply to him as well? His case is not clear cut, he must prove his property was damaged. He has pictures but they do not show what he suggests (remember he is claiming foul odors)