Foreign English teacher attacked and raped in rice paddy - rapist hunted in Bangkok

[connda]

Even I don't have a night-time stroll along the roads bordering the village rice fields after dark, and I'm a guy.  Once it's dark, any walking I do in the village is within the most densely populated area where a shout will bring people out of their homes. 
"Blaming the victim?"  Perhaps holding the victim partially responsible for engaging in risky behavior. 

[seahorse]

On 12/16/2016 at 10:19 AM, 248900_1469958220 said:

So nothing is learnt from what occured....all information regarding the behavior of the victim is of no consequence at all and nothing can be learned from it for future reference....In other words...carry on ladies get on the bike with whoever you like at any ungodly hour with two drunk men...No need to give advice to the contrary.....men just SHOULDNT RAPE and thats that. Well, that isnt going to work very well now is it?

 

The men that raped her are scum. We ALL agree on that. What advice, in hindsight would you have given that lady if she was your daughter....to possibly help PREVENT what happened? I am interested in your reply.

Unlikely Bluespunk has a daughter.

[Bluespunk]

8 minutes ago, seahorse said:

Unlikely Bluespunk has a daughter.

You know jack about me and I would prefer if you kept speculations on my family to yourself. 

[Bluespunk]

35 minutes ago, connda said:

Even I don't have a night-time stroll along the roads bordering the village rice fields after dark, and I'm a guy.  Once it's dark, any walking I do in the village is within the most densely populated area where a shout will bring people out of their homes. 
"Blaming the victim?"  Perhaps holding the victim partially responsible for engaging in risky behavior. 

The rapist scum is solely responsible for the rape. 

[connda]

On 12/15/2016 at 9:51 AM, Bluespunk said:

Victim blaming is wrong.

 

The only one's who are to blame in this case are the rapists.

 

The views you express on what is realistic, when referring to how women dress, are not only wrong but are straight from the rapists defence manual.

 

Blame the rapists.

 

No one else is to blame.

If you put yourself in a compromising situation and things go bad, then it is partially your fault for placing yourself in that situation.  This 'reality' doesn't just apply to rapes.  If you flash money and bling-bling then later get robbed;  if you flip someone a 'one-finger salute' in anger; if you walk though deserted streets or alleys in the cities looking for the strange and novel; if you accept rides from happy, smiling, overly-friendly drunks.  Place yourself in harms way and harm finds you, don't go absolving yourself of all responsibility for your actions and placing the blame 100% on the person who took advantage of that situation. 
One of my first lessons I taught my daughter was "don't take candy or gifts from strangers" which was actually advice to be wary of all people you don't know, and if you do find yourself in a compromising situation - have a game plan to minimize the the damage if an attack occurs.  But with my own daughter I taught her based on the realities of life, as unpleasant as they may be.  Reality is being aware of your surroundings, knowing you strengths and limitation, understanding other people's strengths, limitations, and perverse desires,  and acting accordingly.  Needless to say, you wouldn't find my daughter wandering solo thought a tourist venue in skimpy clothes after drinking as so many of the young, 'liberated', selfie-taking generation do.  That's about a ignorant as going to one of the various 'Tiger Camps' here in Northern Thailand and lulling yourself into a false sense of security that somehow that cute and cuddly 200 kilo fur-ball you're hugging and kissing isn't an alpha predator that is quite well equipped to kill and eat you -- because it is! -- and you've simply fooled yourself into believing that it isn't. 
In my world if I accept the risk and place myself in proximity of the tiger and the tiger mauls me, I personally would assume responsibility for placing myself in that position.
But I think nowadays I'm in a shrinking minority.  Others will place themselves in proximity to the tiger, the tiger mauls them, and it's the tiger's fault, the owner's fault, the government's fault, the tour operator's fault, everyone fault but your own. 

By extension, if you choose to act in a manner that places you at risk, and things go bad, it is partly your responsibility for placing yourself in that situation. 

I just don't agree with those out there who actually believe that victims of attacks never, ever bear any responsibility for there actions.  Because unfortunately in many cases there is a window of opportunity to avoid harm to one's self from happening in the first place.  It's the wise individual who sees that opportunity and seizes it. 

Edited December 17, 2016 by connda

[AGareth2]

Reckless behaviour?

[connda]

25 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The rapist scum is solely responsible for the rape. 

We'll have to agree that we disagree. 

 

Rapists are a fact of life; placing yourself in a compromising position is often a choice.  When it is a choice to take risks, and thing go badly, then there is an inherent responsibility for engaging in one's choices.  People who understand what I'm saying generally will choose their actions more wisely and if at all possible, avoid the situation.  As I stated, I would not walk down the road dividing our village rice fields after dark and alone.  Even for an adult male, that act is engaging in risky behavior.  But if I chose to do so and it went bad, by golly, it would be partially my fault.
Trust me, my parents drilled self-responsibility into me at a young age along with understanding risks and rewards.

[AGareth2]

there was a Chinese girl who got out of her car in a tiger park

she was dragged like a doll and killed

I think she acted recklessly

but only the tiger is to blame

[connda]

5 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

there was a Chinese girl who got out of her car in a tiger park

she was dragged like a doll and killed

I think she acted recklessly

but only the tiger is to blame

...and then sometimes s**t just happens.  Sometimes life just isn't fair. 
However, some people can accept that life isn't fair; other people will kick and scream about how unfair life is.  But they are both simply perspectives. 

[dick dasterdly]

I'm suprised that there seem to be a few posters who have never done something that they later realised was an unwise move/risky!  Or perhaps they have, but think that if they'd been attacked as a result of their mistake, they wouldn't have entirely blamed the attacker?

 

Having done risky things a few times (mainly when I was young, and also mainly realising after the event), I understand that people sometimes do things that could land them in trouble, if they are unlucky enough to come across criminals/deviants - and I entirely blame the attacker rather than the victim.

[Bonobojt]

do rapists put condoms on before they rape ? I mean will she be pregnant now ? hope they get their jail for life sentence 

[farcanell]

7 minutes ago, Bonobojt said:

do rapists put condoms on before they rape ? I mean will she be pregnant now ? hope they get their jail for life sentence 

 

I don't think you get pregnant from performing fellatio, admitted by asshit... 

[connda]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm suprised that there seem to be a few posters who have never done something that they later realised was an unwise move/risky!  Or perhaps they have, but think that if they'd been attacked as a result of their mistake, they wouldn't have entirely blamed the attacker?

 

Having done risky things a few times (mainly when I was young, and also mainly realising after the event), I understand that people sometimes do things that could land them in trouble, if they are unlucky enough to come across criminals/deviants - and I entirely blame the attacker rather than the victim.

I guess the difference between people who think as you do (and I'd say a majority of the TV members do think as you) as opposed to people who think as I do is simple:
Regardless of the events the transpire, people who believe as you do will always be 100% a victim.
With myself and people who believe as I do, if harm come to me by a choice I made, at the end of the day I won't frame myself in the perspective of being a 'victim' if a wiser choice would have led to avoiding the situation in the first place.
Take a few classes in Systema, Krav Maga, or other close-combat techniques.  After as little as 16 hours of instruction, you'll probably understand.  But most people gravitate to the status-quo, so 'victims' you'll continue to be and those who 'make you a victim' will always be 100% responsible.  It's all about choices.
And the gal that got raped.  She should never have been walking alone at dark on a road in the rice fields.  As I said, I won't even do that.  It's lunacy and asking for trouble.  And she found it.  I pray she recovers and is wiser in the future. 
But then on the flip side, I hope the justice department tosses her rapist in a Thai jail for an extended period of time, and perhaps karma will work itself out within the prison system.  
 

Edited December 17, 2016 by connda

[LannaGuy]

22 minutes ago, connda said:

I guess the difference between people who think as you do (and I'd say a majority of the TV members do think as you) as opposed to people who think as I do is simple:
Regardless of the events the transpire, people who believe as you do will always be 100% a victim.
With myself and people who believe as I do, if harm come to me by a choice I made, at the end of the day I won't frame myself in the perspective of being a 'victim' if a wiser choice would have led to avoiding the situation in the first place.
Take a few classes in Systema, Krav Maga, or other close-combat techniques.  After as little as 16 hours of instruction, you'll probably understand.  But most people gravitate to the status-quo, so 'victims' you'll continue to be and those who 'make you a victim' will always be 100% responsible.  It's all about choices.
And the gal that got raped.  She should never have been walking alone at dark on a road in the rice fields.  As I said, I won't even do that.  It's lunacy and asking for trouble.  And she found it.  I pray she recovers and is wiser in the future. 
But then on the flip side, I hope the toss her rapist in a Thai jail for an extended period of time, and perhaps karma will work itself out within the prison system.  
 

 

it is NOT 'asking for trouble'  what a way to think!  the attacker is 100% to blame for being a scumbag STOP blaming the victim

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, connda said:

I guess the difference between people who think as you do (and I'd say a majority of the TV members do think as you) as opposed to people who think as I do is simple:
Regardless of the events the transpire, people who believe as you do will always be 100% a victim.
With myself and people who believe as I do, if harm come to me by a choice I made, at the end of the day I won't frame myself in the perspective of being a 'victim' if a wiser choice would have led to avoiding the situation in the first place.
Take a few classes in Systema, Krav Maga, or other close-combat techniques.  After as little as 16 hours of instruction, you'll probably understand.  But most people gravitate to the status-quo, so 'victims' you'll continue to be and those who 'make you a victim' will always be 100% responsible.  It's all about choices.
And the gal that got raped.  She should never have been walking alone at dark on a road in the rice fields.  As I said, I won't even do that.  It's lunacy and asking for trouble.  And she found it.  I pray she recovers and is wiser in the future. 
But then on the flip side, I hope the justice department tosses her rapist in a Thai jail for an extended period of time, and perhaps karma will work itself out within the prison system.  
 

Re. the emboldened part (my emboldening), I worked in the West End and City of London for decades - went out with friends/colleagues after work and ended up catching the last train home literally hundreds of times!  During that time I lived in 'dangerous' areas and so walked aggressively when leaving the train and was never attacked.

 

The last thing anyone who knows me would call me (in these types of scenarios) is an obvious "victim"  - which presumably, is why (even though I'm a female), I was never harmed despite where I lived.

 

So please don't argue that "people who believe as you do will always be 100% a victim"!  In my experience its the soft/gentle people who end up being victims (I know a few people who have been attacked, albeit not raped), and trying to 'pin' it on people who think the same way as me is not only obviously incorrect, but also ridiculous.

[bannork]

Blimey, dick dasterdly is a woman.I'm changing my name to Fearless Fanny.

[Bluespunk]

7 hours ago, connda said:

If you put yourself in a compromising situation and things go bad, then it is partially your fault for placing yourself in that situation.  This 'reality' doesn't just apply to rapes.  If you flash money and bling-bling then later get robbed;  if you flip someone a 'one-finger salute' in anger; if you walk though deserted streets or alleys in the cities looking for the strange and novel; if you accept rides from happy, smiling, overly-friendly drunks.  Place yourself in harms way and harm finds you, don't go absolving yourself of all responsibility for your actions and placing the blame 100% on the person who took advantage of that situation. 
One of my first lessons I taught my daughter was "don't take candy or gifts from strangers" which was actually advice to be wary of all people you don't know, and if you do find yourself in a compromising situation - have a game plan to minimize the the damage if an attack occurs.  But with my own daughter I taught her based on the realities of life, as unpleasant as they may be.  Reality is being aware of your surroundings, knowing you strengths and limitation, understanding other people's strengths, limitations, and perverse desires,  and acting accordingly.  Needless to say, you wouldn't find my daughter wandering solo thought a tourist venue in skimpy clothes after drinking as so many of the young, 'liberated', selfie-taking generation do.  That's about a ignorant as going to one of the various 'Tiger Camps' here in Northern Thailand and lulling yourself into a false sense of security that somehow that cute and cuddly 200 kilo fur-ball you're hugging and kissing isn't an alpha predator that is quite well equipped to kill and eat you -- because it is! -- and you've simply fooled yourself into believing that it isn't. 
In my world if I accept the risk and place myself in proximity of the tiger and the tiger mauls me, I personally would assume responsibility for placing myself in that position.
But I think nowadays I'm in a shrinking minority.  Others will place themselves in proximity to the tiger, the tiger mauls them, and it's the tiger's fault, the owner's fault, the government's fault, the tour operator's fault, everyone fault but your own. 

By extension, if you choose to act in a manner that places you at risk, and things go bad, it is partly your responsibility for placing yourself in that situation. 

I just don't agree with those out there who actually believe that victims of attacks never, ever bear any responsibility for there actions.  Because unfortunately in many cases there is a window of opportunity to avoid harm to one's self from happening in the first place.  It's the wise individual who sees that opportunity and seizes it. 

I repeat.

 

The victim bears no responsibility for the actions of scum who rape. 

 

None at all. 

[Rc2702]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Re. the emboldened part (my emboldening), I worked in the West End and City of London for decades - went out with friends/colleagues after work and ended up catching the last train home literally hundreds of times!  During that time I lived in 'dangerous' areas and so walked aggressively when leaving the train and was never attacked.

 

The last thing anyone who knows me would call me (in these types of scenarios) is an obvious "victim"  - which presumably, is why (even though I'm a female), I was never harmed despite where I lived.

 

So please don't argue that "people who believe as you do will always be 100% a victim"!  In my experience its the soft/gentle people who end up being victims (I know a few people who have been attacked, albeit not raped), and trying to 'pin' it on people who think the same way as me is not only obviously incorrect, but also ridiculous.

Your off your rocker. male female whatever walking into the aarshole of nowhere on your jack in thailand as a foreigner is dangerous and the more that can be done to educate people who make silly decisions to walk alone, drunk? (sober is actually worse in this case) is a blatant mistake which if had been avoided would not have led to the crime. accepting a lift off drunk strangers is bad enough. the fact she lived to tell the take is a godsend and I'd rather hear this story than not have heard it and instead heard how she was killed.  quick question if they had crashed and she was only one to die? whose at fault there?  she made a massive error, she's lucky. hope the chap gets a good sentence anyway hope she recovers and I hope she learns a lesson her mom likely tried to teach her at age 3 years old.

[Thaiwrath]

Spunk was obviously abused as a kid.

It is not right. but his blame thing is bizarre.

 

[Harveyg]

  On 12/14/2016 at 10:00 AM, ricku said:

An excellent opportunity to make an example. Execute them both.

 

Doesnt fit the crime.  But removing the offending part?  I think so.