UN Security Council demands end to Israeli settlements

[thetruth revealer]

3 hours ago, ezzra said:

Why are we all wasting our times here to put forward our opinions?

we all know very well that no UN resolutions will change anything

on the landscape, and believe it or not, it's not even up to Israel to give

the Palestinians a country, there're far stronger agendas at play here,

most of it is clandestine and hidden, even if Israel will tomorrow withdraw

back to it's pre 1967 borders, nothing will change, as the Palestinians want

a lot more than just land, they want revenge and blood and at any cost,

so guys, no one is going anywhere, US resolution or not.....

How arrogant , the Israeli giving the palestinians a country....They illegally occupied a foreign territory and break world wide standards, dont forget.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, thetruth revealer said:

How arrogant , the Israeli giving the palestinians a country....They illegally occupied a foreign territory and break world wide standards, dont forget.

Some truth revealer. Palestine has never been a nation state to begin with. Hopefully, someday it will be one living side by side in peace with Israel. That's the dream anyway and trump's bizarre far right wing politics notwithstanding, that's where most Americans are at still supporting. 

Edited December 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[Kiwiken]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

As was predictable in any Israel political topic, the HARD CORE Israel demonizing rhetoric comes out of the closet that it's not in. Suggesting an equivalence between modern Israel and Nazi Germany is Jew hating hate speech. Once you go there, you lose all chance of having any reasoned discussion on these matters.. 

Define a Jew Hater. I suspect you are a hater of Islam. I personally have no issue with any Human being as long as they live by the credos. Of Do unto others as you wish done to you.

I do not have problems with israelis unless they transgress against my Country which they have. I have met quite a few israelis. My view on the Settlements is not based on race but One side more powerful with a big Thug Supporter that physically bullies out its neighbour. Don't label people you do not know me or others. You assume! An old saying never assume less you make an Ass out of You and Me!

[deathmule]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Some truth revealer. Palestine has never been a nation state to begin with. Hopefully, someday it will be one living side by side in peace with Israel. That's the dream anyway and trump's bizarre far right wing politics notwithstanding, that's where most Americans are at still supporting. 

 

Well, neither Israel before Nakba 1948

[thetruth revealer]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Some truth revealer. Palestine has never been a nation state to begin with. Hopefully, someday it will be one living side by side in peace with Israel. That's the dream anyway and trump's bizarre far right wing politics notwithstanding, that's where most Americans are at still supporting. 

Israel occupied foreign land and thats all what matters. Whether you name it Palestine or not, doesnt change any thing , because its fact that they commit crimes against humanity. And on top of all, they was given land and home they massacre those neighbours until today, because backed up from US.

What a shameless parasite state.

[canthai55]

That did not take long - to raise the Islamic Terrorist card.  Not the Topic. USA does big business with Israel - that is the reason why they will not condemn them. All a matter of $$$  I had great hopes for the UN when it started - to be the Worlds Police Force when small countries are preyed upon by larger, richer ones. But the US has taken on that role, and brought their own play book. Honor, Compassion, Fairness, Equality not in there.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, thetruth revealer said:

Israel occupied foreign land and thats all what matters. Whether you name it Palestine or not, doesnt change any thing , because its fact that they commit crimes against humanity. And on top of all, they was given land and home they massacre those neighbours until today, because backed up from US.

What a shameless parasite state.

Disgusting hate speech.

I've no interest in communicating with people posting such extremist hate rhetoric. 

Welcome to my ignore list. 

[canthai55]

The only official definition of Fascism comes from Benito Mussolini, the founder of fascism, in which he outlines three principles of a fascist philosophy.

1."Everything in the state". The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator.

2."Nothing outside the state". The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government.

3."Nothing against the state". Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens.

 

 

 

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The thing about the U.N. and Israel is that there no doubt at all that Israel get's dissed by the U.N. way out of proportion to whatever flaws they have relative to other nations that really deserve much more attention. I think that's a big part of the "traditional" U.S. veto of such U.N. resolutions. If you're going to unfairly gang up on one nation, a very close ally of the U.S., then that's what veto power is good for. So it's a precedent but a short lived one as trump is coming very soon. 

 

While Israel will of course ignore this U.N. resolution, they're right to be concerned that it will open Israel up other actions from other international bodies, and also of course, I wonder if this will give a boost to the BDS movement, which lately seems to be have faded rather significantly. 

 

Here's the full text of Power's speech, also incorporating the case for the issues outlined in your first paragraph:

 

READ: U.S. Ambassador to the UN Samantha Power's Full Speech at the Security Council
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.761017

[Morch]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

Jews are not one single ethnoreligious group. Apart from religion, what do Ashkenazi Jews have in common with Jews from the Arab world? Actually, they have a lot less in common with Arab Jews than with the European locals.

 

Not that this is in anyway on topic, but the common thing would be that most anti-Semitics exercise equal opportunity regardless of which groups Jews belong to and the same goes for Arabs. Do we really need to further derail the topic?

[dexterm]

The wording of the resolution itself is very powerful. Well worth a read. Covers most of the bases.

 

Whatever Obama's motivation in abstaining, that is in not supporting the resolution but not disagreeing with it either! 

 

I find it tragic that if the USA and all the other major powers on the Security Council (UK, China, Russia, France, and at the moment little old New Zealnd too (well done, Kiwis)) have felt this way for so long since 1967!, why the hell have they not done anything sooner to curb Israel's aggressive expansionism?

 

The entire resolution as quoted in Haaretz seems to be one long sentence separated by commas.(Fair usage rule?). I'll quote part of it. Worth reading it all.

 

"Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,

Reaffirming the obligation of Israel, the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by its legal obligations and responsibilities under the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949, and recalling the advisory opinion rendered on 9 July 2004 by the International Court of Justice 

 

Condemning all measures aimed at altering the demographic composition, character and status of the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, including, inter alia, the construction and expansion of settlements, transfer of Israeli settlers, confiscation of land, demolition of homes and displacement of Palestinian civilians, in violation of international humanitarian law and relevant resolutions,

 

 

...read on...

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.761030

 

Just remember: that's what was affirmed by 14-0 in the Security Council representing the world's most powerful countries, and no doubt would be endorsed by most of the rest of the world non SC members too.

 

That's what the world thinks of Israel. The truth will out, despite what Trump and Israeli apologists promote..they are on the wrong side of history.

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Not that this is in anyway on topic, but the common thing would be that most anti-Semitics exercise equal opportunity regardless of which groups Jews belong to and the same goes for Arabs. Do we really need to further derail the topic?

We don't and it's a hateful, disgusting obsession with Israel demonization rhetoric to aggressively try to define what Jewish identity is for obvious hostile propaganda purposes. Jewish identity is up to Jewish people, both individually and collectively. At it's most toxic, the hateful rhetoric tries to tell Ashkenazi Jews that they're not "real" Jews ... that only the most bizarrely extremist tiny cults of anti-Zionist ultra religious Jews are real Jews. Also the absurd twisted denial of the clear meaning of antisemitism.

 

This all is obvious hard core Jew hatred. 

Edited December 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

About time. Pity he didn't do it 7 years ago.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

No need to be rude.

 

I agree with you
"The illegal settlements are certainly a major element in the conflict and a huge obstacle for its resolution"

 "- but they are hardly the only issue , nor is Israel the only party involved."

Despite your attempt to deflect, illegal settlements are the issue/topic in the OP.

 

True..the Palestinians are involved too. They are the dispossessed occupied not the occupiers.

 

I think Obama has been a dismal failure in living up to the faith the world community placed in him to promote peace when he first came to office. He has allowed himself and the most powerful country in the world to be bullied and dictated to by Netanyahu and his cohorts.

 

Trump will now trample on any possibility of a two state solution which will only hasten a one state solution. Fast track to a binational state.

Fine! It's an inevitability anyway for peoples who are eternal geographic neighbors.

 

What deflection? There was no denial of the issue, just pointing out it's not the only aspect of the conflict. But do go on about rudeness.

 

The Palestinians held (and many continue to hold) a rejectionist position with regard to Israel. The Palestinians are involved in a violent struggle against Israel. They are not the ever-passive, docile people you try to portray them as. Do deny their part in the conflict, or to minimize it - is your usual script, but it doesn't make it true or helpful.

 

Obama failed to "bring peace" to other conflicts as well, this one is in no way unique. If you and others had high hopes with regard to Obama on this front, that's too bad. But even had Obama been more decisive, it would still not make the US position much closer to your own bile filled fantasies.

[ilostmypassword]

14 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Not that this is in anyway on topic, but the common thing would be that most anti-Semitics exercise equal opportunity regardless of which groups Jews belong to and the same goes for Arabs. Do we really need to further derail the topic?

I didn't introduce this tangent into the threat. Just pointing out that it's not true.

[Thorgal]

 
Some would never be satisfied.
 
The US does not subscribe to your politics and views. Get over it. As the ambassador power put it, even if the illegal settlements were to be dismantled tomorrow, it wouldn't result in a lasting peace. The illegal settlements are certainly a major element in the conflict and a huge obstacle for its resolution - but they are hardly the only issue , nor is Israel the only party involved.

Some economic embargoes have been imposed sometime not fairly on nations like Iraq, Iran, Lybia, Syria etc. Longtime sanctions in some cases for lesser infractions than what Israel did till now.

Why an exclusivity attitude towards Israel. Enough is enough.

The illegal settlements should be evaluated in function of indexation in time and real value. The lease sum should be paid back to the Palestinian government. The payback can be spread over a few decades. Just like any WW2 reparations.
Settlements should be given back to the Palestinians refugees from Lebanon, Syria and Jordania.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Kiwiken said:

Is this so Israel can have lebensraum.  Sounds very much like the actions of a previous Government in Germany. Maybe Israel should just annex the West Bank and the Gaza strip. Good luck assimilating the populations. First you steal the land then you eliminate (cast out , exterminate) the previous inhabitants. A dangerous path and Policy. And will keep the USA tarred as a supporter of Genocide. The West Bank and Gaza strip are Palestinian. East Jerusalem is its Capital. Israel is an occupying and hegemonous  State. There can be no peace on this path. For their Part the Palestinians must rein in their support for Extremism. Both Sides Policies only further the divide and make rapprochement impossible  . The Sponsors of the Bill sought to stop One side while also saying the other must move to curb violence.

 

More drivel. There's no genocide of the Palestinian people. Alluding to a hypothetical possibility is all very nice, but doesn't deal with facts. Your usage of Nazi related terminology is both off mark and intended for "shock value" and baiting. You could have made the very same argument without the hyperbole. Guess it's a choice.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

Thank you for the link to the full text. Well worth a read. Doesn't pull any punches.

 

I notice that where the resolution condemns terrorism, violence against civilians and incitement, it does not single out a particular side....Palestinians or Israelis.

 

And I notice that your original comment was that no terrorism was mentioned in the OP.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, deathmule said:

 

Well, neither Israel before Nakba 1948

 

Without, hopefully (yeah, right), getting into a dreary pseudo-historical "debate" - factually incorrect.

 

The Palestinians, by the way, were not all too keen on asserting their national rights as such. Arab nations weren't really that eager on it too for a long while.

 

[dexterm]

16 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What deflection? There was no denial of the issue, just pointing out it's not the only aspect of the conflict. But do go on about rudeness.

 

The Palestinians held (and many continue to hold) a rejectionist position with regard to Israel. The Palestinians are involved in a violent struggle against Israel. They are not the ever-passive, docile people you try to portray them as. Do deny their part in the conflict, or to minimize it - is your usual script, but it doesn't make it true or helpful.

 

Obama failed to "bring peace" to other conflicts as well, this one is in no way unique. If you and others had high hopes with regard to Obama on this front, that's too bad. But even had Obama been more decisive, it would still not make the US position much closer to your own bile filled fantasies.

Of course Palestinians are involved in the conflict. It is their moral and legal right to resist occupation. Just as every other people in history have resisted when they have been occupied and colonized by European invaders.

 

Personally, I think their military resistance has been futile against the most powerful and only army in Palestine, the IDF. 

 

They would be much better served practising passive resistance, with every Palestinian armed only with a smartphone to record the daily brutal occupation in order to shame Israel before the world. 

 

The politicians in the OP have finally been able to put into words the illegality of occupation. I would like the world also to see what the reality of the suffering Palestinians have to endure under the illegal occupation.

 

Edited December 24, 2016 by dexterm

[Morch]

52 minutes ago, thetruth revealer said:

Israel occupied foreign land and thats all what matters. Whether you name it Palestine or not, doesnt change any thing , because its fact that they commit crimes against humanity. And on top of all, they was given land and home they massacre those neighbours until today, because backed up from US.

What a shameless parasite state.

 

Israel occupied a land which was already occupied by illegal occupiers - namely Egypt and Jordan. Somehow, these countries excesses are glossed over whenever this comes up. And contrary to your bold assertions, no - not "crimes against humanity". That's just the usual hyperbole. Well, that's actually goes for the rest of your post as well....doubt the poster intent on not being "rude" minds though.

[Morch]

56 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

That did not take long - to raise the Islamic Terrorist card.  Not the Topic. USA does big business with Israel - that is the reason why they will not condemn them. All a matter of $$$  I had great hopes for the UN when it started - to be the Worlds Police Force when small countries are preyed upon by larger, richer ones. But the US has taken on that role, and brought their own play book. Honor, Compassion, Fairness, Equality not in there.

 

The US does more business with Arab countries. Surely you had a point there?

[Jingthing]

A good question to ask is does this passed resolution, thanks to the USA abstain, bring us any closer to a negotiated peaceful two state solution? Other than provide talking points to the usual suspects, I honestly don't see that it does.

 

Sure, I get it that Palestinians see this as a moral victory, but won't it just mean that Israel will just dig in their heels even more against a world that is seen as hostile, without even the USA seen as a totally reliable friend anymore (well, until January 20).

 

It changes BUPKIS on the ground, yes? 

 

Edited December 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[dick dasterdly]

54 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Disgusting hate speech.

I've no interest in communicating with people posting such extremist hate rhetoric. 

Welcome to my ignore list. 

Re. the emboldened part (my emboldening), I'm sorry - but it made me laugh.

 

How many are there on your ignore list? 

[Jingthing]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

Re. the emboldened part (my emboldening), I'm sorry - but it made me laugh.

 

How many are there on your ignore list? 

How many grains of sand on a beach, mate? 

[canthai55]

33 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This all is obvious hard core Jew hatred. 

 

Read the Topic - we are talking about Israel !  Not about the Jewish people !  I do not hate anyone. But I for sure Hate what some countries in the World are doing !

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

 

Read the Topic - we are talking about Israel !  Not about the Jewish people !  I do not hate anyone. But I for sure Hate what some countries in the World are doing !

It's not about you.

Ignore list. 

[dexterm]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

A good question to ask is does this passed resolution, thanks to the USA abstain, bring us any closer to a negotiated peaceful two state solution? Other than provide talking points to the usual suspects, I honestly don't see that it does.

 

 

Whatever.The resolution is there on record.

 

It represents what the world thinks about Israel and the just conditions which may facilitate a solution to the conflict.

 

It is the world opinion that Trump will have to fly in the face of when he assumes office.

Unintentionally, his bull in a china shop/unwillingness to accept criticism approach may actually bring about an end to the conflict in a single binational state.

[Morch]

10 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Of course Palestinians are involved in the conflict. It is their moral and legal right to resist occupation. Just as every other people in history have resisted when they have been occupied and colonized by European invaders.

 

Personally, I think their military resistance has been futile against the most powerful and only army in Palestine, the IDF. 

 

They would be much better served practising passive resistance, with every Palestinian armed only with a smartphone to record the daily brutal occupation in order to shame Israel before the world. 

 

The politicians in the OP have finally been able to put into words the illegality of occupation. I would like the world also to see what the reality of the suffering Palestinians have to endure under the illegal occupation.

 

 

No matter how you twist it, the Israelis and the Palestinians are both responsible for the ongoing violence. Your attempts to absolve the Palestinians from any accountability is absurd. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict goes way earlier than the occupation and the same goes for the violence. The occupation itself is not the cause of the conflict. Your colonization drivel is, as usually, rejected as the inflammatory propaganda it is.

 

Your fantasies about passive resistance are not the dreams upon which Palestinian draw, and therefore are irrelevant to the actual state of things.

 

There was no denial of the Palestinian predicament, only of their own complicity in its creation and maintenance.

[canthai55]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's not about you.

Ignore list. 

 

No wonder meaningful dialogue is impossible.