Old men jailed over tree may get reprieve

[soc]

5 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

 

I see the TVF super sleuths are on the case - we waited with baited breath for your answers

"bated, not baited"

[PatOngo]

3 hours ago, anotheruser said:

 

 

Not exactly. Try cut a dead tree in any national park in the USA. I get what you are says by but there are many areas in the USA you would be charged with a crime for cutting a dead tree. If you don't believe me go to the redwoods and give it a try

 

 

 

Can't cut a dead tree, but carrying a gun...........................................?

[soc]

3 hours ago, suave said:

The need for permission is needed, even if the tree is dead.  Otherwise, people could poison the tree and wait till it died and then remove it, and don't try and tell that no one would do that.

Done that myself, in Australia, to a neighbour's tree because its roots were getting into my sewage pipes & he was refusing to do anything about it.

After getting my pipes cleared out for the 4th time, l took matters into my own hands & poisoned the tree.

When it died, he had to cut it down & remove it.

Never had a sewage problem after that.

Funny, that.

[Briggsy]

7 hours ago, canopy said:

Living among rural Thai people as long as I have, I find it highly improbable this was simply a good samaritan pushing a million baht over to the side for the benefit of others. I'd like to know more before forming an opinion. It's plainly obvious that as any tree ages in Thailand it gets to the point where it must go because the benefits sitting on the ground become too great for greedy people to leave it be. How did the tree die? Was it deliberately poisoned like so many are? Was it a legitimate garbage dump or were they merely dumping garbage illegally on  government property? Where was the wood going? Were the locals warned not to disturb the tree? Did the tree have a sign on it? Why were people upset enough to rat them out? How many trees have these gentlemen planted in their lives? And how many have they cut down? It's no wonder chainsaws are a controlled item here.

 

Canopy

 

I see the popular opinion is against you but I tend to share your views.

 

Locals are very much aware of the value of timber, even more so when valuable woods such as Siamese Rosewood are involved. They are also very aware that Siamese Rosewood is a protected species. I suspect this pair just wanted to harvest the value and hoped it would slide past the authorities.

 

Prison seems harsh and probably reflects the fact that sentences here reflect social status more than the severity of the actual crime.

[Mook23]

9 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

IT WAS A DEAD TREE!!! Has the govt gone insane?

BUT. INSIDE. HAVE. GHOST !! CUTTING. CANNOT!

[nausea]

25 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

 sentences here reflect social status more than the severity of the actual crime.

Seems to ring true.

[dick dasterdly]

8 hours ago, canopy said:

Living among rural Thai people as long as I have, I find it highly improbable this was simply a good samaritan pushing a million baht over to the side for the benefit of others. I'd like to know more before forming an opinion. It's plainly obvious that as any tree ages in Thailand it gets to the point where it must go because the benefits sitting on the ground become too great for greedy people to leave it be. How did the tree die? Was it deliberately poisoned like so many are? Was it a legitimate garbage dump or were they merely dumping garbage illegally on  government property? Where was the wood going? Were the locals warned not to disturb the tree? Did the tree have a sign on it? Why were people upset enough to rat them out? How many trees have these gentlemen planted in their lives? And how many have they cut down? It's no wonder chainsaws are a controlled item here.

 

 

36 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Canopy

 

I see the popular opinion is against you but I tend to share your views.

 

Locals are very much aware of the value of timber, even more so when valuable woods such as Siamese Rosewood are involved. They are also very aware that Siamese Rosewood is a protected species. I suspect this pair just wanted to harvest the value and hoped it would slide past the authorities.

 

Prison seems harsh and probably reflects the fact that sentences here reflect social status more than the severity of the actual crime.

Canopy makes some very good points if the value of the wood is pushing a million bht.

[JAG]

6 hours ago, canopy said:

 

It should be rather obvious to most people that how a rural thai feels about me +/- is completely irrelevant to this thread. I am just reporting what I observe, not pulling any punches. I can only surmise you find truths that do not match your assumptions about this part of the world to be unwelcome.

 

Not at all. I have been here long enough not to make such assumptions. There are things about this part of the world I do not like, I accept them not least because on  balance they are outweighed by the things which I like. Now unless you are living there, and know all the circumstances you are not reporting observations, but you are making assumptions.

Nor do I assume that everyone is motivated by the most venal of reasons, particularly if they are two elderly individuals like these two.

Edited December 26, 2016 by JAG

[cyberfarang]

4 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Canopy

 

I see the popular opinion is against you but I tend to share your views.

 

Locals are very much aware of the value of timber, even more so when valuable woods such as Siamese Rosewood are involved. They are also very aware that Siamese Rosewood is a protected species. I suspect this pair just wanted to harvest the value and hoped it would slide past the authorities.

 

Prison seems harsh and probably reflects the fact that sentences here reflect social status more than the severity of the actual crime.

They are just farmers BRANCHING out into the timber business.

[steven100]

Well I guess it's the law that trees just can't be cut willy nilly, although these guys did try to get something done the correct way.

They should be released, no harm done ... they aren't hardened criminals.

[lvr181]

16 hours ago, soc said:

Done that myself, in Australia, to a neighbour's tree because its roots were getting into my sewage pipes & he was refusing to do anything about it.

After getting my pipes cleared out for the 4th time, l took matters into my own hands & poisoned the tree.

When it died, he had to cut it down & remove it.

Never had a sewage problem after that.

Funny, that.

Always "more than one way to skin a cat" eh?  

 

 

Edited December 26, 2016 by lvr181
Punctuation

[Sig]

23 hours ago, canopy said:

 

I am afraid you are the one who misread it because the word road does not appear in the article at all. It was called "the path of locals who needed to dump their garbage", hence my query on whether the dump site was even legal. Wouldn't be unusual if some of the locals were tossing trash into a public ravine for instance. Just look around. Don't give up though, maybe if you keep trying you can find something legitimate to complain about in my post. Because apparently opening one's mind to the possibility that any of the answers to the questions I posed could actually point towards guilt would be unthinkable.

 

 

 

 

Apparently they were so happy about him taking matters into his own hands to clear this "road" that they called the authorities to bust him.

 

 

You raised some other good questions, but this, I don't believe is one of them. I think the context is clear enough to make a safe assumption that it was blocking a road of some sort. It may not have been a paved road and therefore referred to as a path? But if the tree blocking the path caused people to drive into his land causing nuisance (another legal issue), then it would seem that a road of some sort was being blocked.  (“These locals then drove into Thongsuk’s plot of land, causing a nuisance.”) By the way, 'path' can be translated from more than one word in Thai that can be translated as 'road'. The author of the article is Thai, as is the person being quoted.

And if "Justice Ministry deputy permanent |secretary Tawatchai Thaikyo" said that, "This tree blocked the path of locals who needed to dump their garbage at a dumpsite”. I'm inclined to believe it's more than likely a legitimate dump site. The official didn't call it an illegal dumpsite and he said they "needed" to dump their garbage there. Not "wanted" to litter and illegally dump.

But your other questions are very good. And definitely should be cause for caution in wondering what on earth is up with this one. Having also lived in a very rural area, I cannot imagine for a second that somebody would call the authorities unless there's some bad blood somewhere. Jealousy, prior problems, who knows, but definitely not a happy friendly neighbor! Who knows, these old guys could be the jerks of the village and hated. But without some kind of evidence, other than just cutting up a dead tree, which they apparently never took possession of, it's pretty much impossible to know what they really had planned. Could be totally innocent as the article makes them out to be, or could be very conniving. If people were really driving on his land, I think he is justified since the government didn't take care of it properly. And if they wanted to nail him for anything, they should have waited to see what he did with the wood. Jailing them in this situation is pretty absurd. It's nothing that a written citation couldn't deal with, along with further investigation as needed. Just another abuse of authority....

 

 

[billd766]

On 26/12/2016 at 5:55 AM, Somtamnication said:

IT WAS A DEAD TREE!!! Has the govt gone insane?

 

I first read this story in the other paper and now in this one. Have you actually read the story?

 

The government was not initially involved in this. The police are the ones that took the action.

 

Now the Justice Ministry IS involved and on the side of the two elderly men.

 

A quote from the Nation.  " After the legal proceedings against the men got media attention, Tawatchai said PM General Prayut Chan-o-cha stressed that authorities should educate people about laws so that they can avoid inadvertent violations."

 

That should also apply to the police who followed the letter of the law but failed common sense 101.

[billd766]

On 26/12/2016 at 10:58 AM, anotheruser said:

 

 

Not exactly. Try cut a dead tree in any national park in the USA. I get what you are says by but there are many areas in the USA you would be charged with a crime for cutting a dead tree. If you don't believe me go to the redwoods and give it a try

 

 

 

According to the other paper the tree was not in the national park and was on his land.

 

 

[WhizBang]

On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Somtamnication said:

IT WAS A DEAD TREE!!! Has the govt gone insane?

 

Yes.   

 

Drunk with power.  But only enough balls to go after old men and students.  No way enough cojonies to go after the abbot of the flying saucers cult.
 

[canopy]

" After the legal proceedings against the men got media attention, Tawatchai said PM General Prayut Chan-o-cha stressed that authorities should educate people about laws so that they can avoid inadvertent violations."

 

I'm all for what he said, but it's a strange comment for this particular case isn't it? Because remarkably in this case everyone was aware there were legalities involved and made some effort to have the law applied correctly to one extent or another The guy started going down the approval channel (commendable), the pyb knew he didn't have the authority (good on him), and neighbors knew the law and busted him (good work).

 

According to the other paper the tree was not in the national park and was on his land. 

 

It doesn't matter on a protected tree just like an endangered species cannot be hunted even on one's own land. These amazing trees are sadly disappearing from Thailand and SE Asia as a whole. Do a google and look at the wood. Dead trees are protected because they have to be. Otherwise they would all end up dead so they could be harvested. Another fly in the ointment is land title type can come into play. If the land does not have ns3 or better, there is just no legal way to take such a tree off the land, even if one planted it themselves. Thailand has laws to protect natural resources on land without strong ownership. It includes trees, rocks, dirt, etc.