Surprised no reaction from BYD owners on this forum

[7by7]

7 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

<snip>

A bit out of date, but this BBC report was from mid 2014, before the oil crash occurred.........

 

8 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

<snip>

This morning's BBC UK news feed..........

 

The BBC?

 

The organisation you claim is biased, and therefore you presume to be unreliable?

 

You're using them to provide evidence to back up your points?

 

Shome mishtake, shurely?

 

Or is it because you only believe them to be biased when they say things with which you disagree, but reliable when you can use their reports as evidence yourself?

 

8 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

<snip>

The text in parenthesis was not mine so I presume you added it, in contravention of Rule 16 of the Forum rules? 

 

Rule 16:

Quote

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

 

Using parenthesis is a recognised way of showing that the text concerned was not part of the original post; used by many; especially when, as I did, the post being quoted has been edited to save space by removing irrelevancies or nested quotes.

 

We were discussing the Queen speaking to well wishers about current events on one particular occasion, and you asked for examples prior to the Scottish Independence referendum; I gave you some.

 

The remarks in parenthesis did not change the meaning of your question or context of your post in any way, shape or form. But if you believe I broke the forum rules, you know where the report button is.

Edited January 10, 2017 by 7by7
Add quote from forum rules.

[jpinx]

On 10/01/2017 at 4:15 AM, RuamRudy said:

 

A bit out of date, but this BBC report was from mid 2014, before the oil crash occurred:

 

In 2012-13

Tax revenue generated by Scotland = £53bn

9.1% of UK tax revenue came from Scotland

8.3% of the UK population live in Scotland

£10,000 tax per head in Scotland

£9,200 tax per head, rest of UK

Source: Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS)

 

A more recent analysis shows that:

Even without oil, Scotland’s GDP per head is less than 1% lower than the rest of the UK’s. 

and

Less than a year ago, the FT reported that the Fraser of Allander Institute, the country’s premier economic think-tank, was expressing faith in the robust character of Scotland’s economy. “The oil industry is very, very important and in many ways the jewel in the Scottish economy,” said Brian Ashcroft, the institute’s chief economist, “but the Scottish economy is much bigger than the oil industry and there are lots of areas that will benefit from lower oil prices.” 

 

I have had to do a bit of spreadsheet engineering to reply on your taxpayer comment. Please bear with me, and also correct me if I made a mistake, but my analysis is this:

 

Total number of UK tax payers = 30.1 million (taken from Table 2.1 on this UK gov website) 

The same table shows that the number of higher rate tax payers is 4.41 million. I calculate that to be 14.65% of the UK tax payer base.

 

This BBC page states that the population of Scotland is 8.3% of the UK as a whole. Therefore we can assume that, all things being equal, the total number of Scottish tax payers should be 2.5 million. 

 

You came up with a number of 350,000 Scots in the higher rate tax band - that equates to 14% of the Scottish workforce in the higher tax band, not a massive difference between the UK as a whole, a number that will undeniably be skewed upwards by the disproportionately high salaries of the SE of England.

 

Working the numbers for tax and GDP is all very well, but the real problem is, as I pointed out before, the real problem is the deficit.  The SNP have spent their way into a financial and economic black hole.

 

I'll be happy if you can find more sources for 2016 for comparison.  One has to be very mindful of the editorial influences on these statistical websites...

 

In terms of Gross Domestic Product the UK “current budget deficit” in 2005 was less than 2 percent of GDP, and declined to about 0.6 percent GDP in 2007 and 2008. In the Great Recession the deficit ballooned, to 6.9 percent of GDP in 2010. Since then the deficit has steadily declined, to 2 percent GDP in 2016.
http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_deficit_analysis

 

The data put Scotland's net fiscal deficit last year at £14.8bn, including North Sea receipts, £522m higher than the previous year. That was equivalent to 9.5% of Scotland's GDP. The UK's estimated deficit for the same period was 4% of GDP.Aug 24, 2016
Scottish deficit grows to nearly £15bn as oil revenues collapse ...
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/24/scottish-finances-worsen-fall-oil-revenues-15bn-deficit

 

......  and this one for recent news...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/underperforming-economy-sees-scottish-jobs-slump-to-7-year-low-1-4335601

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by jpinx

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, jpinx said:

Working the numbers for tax and GDP is all very well, but the real problem is, as I pointed out before, the real problem is the deficit.  The SNP have spent their way into a financial and economic black hole.

 

I'll be happy if you can find more sources for 2016 for comparison.  One has to be very mindful of the editorial influences on these statistical websites...

 

In terms of Gross Domestic Product the UK “current budget deficit” in 2005 was less than 2 percent of GDP, and declined to about 0.6 percent GDP in 2007 and 2008. In the Great Recession the deficit ballooned, to 6.9 percent of GDP in 2010. Since then the deficit has steadily declined, to 2 percent GDP in 2016.
http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_deficit_analysis

 

The data put Scotland's net fiscal deficit last year at £14.8bn, including North Sea receipts, £522m higher than the previous year. That was equivalent to 9.5% of Scotland's GDP. The UK's estimated deficit for the same period was 4% of GDP.Aug 24, 2016
Scottish deficit grows to nearly £15bn as oil revenues collapse ...
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/24/scottish-finances-worsen-fall-oil-revenues-15bn-deficit

 

......  and this one for recent news...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/underperforming-economy-sees-scottish-jobs-slump-to-7-year-low-1-4335601

 

 

Without a doubt, there needs to be serious structural changes within Scotland, but they are going to come whether we remain in the Union or not. The choice will be whether we want more of the Tory style of cost savings, or one that is less targeted at the poor. 

 

As I said previously, I have no doubt that the SNP will fade away as a power in an independent Scotland, and the more traditional party models will hold forth. 

[jpinx]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Without a doubt, there needs to be serious structural changes within Scotland, but they are going to come whether we remain in the Union or not. The choice will be whether we want more of the Tory style of cost savings, or one that is less targeted at the poor. 

 

As I said previously, I have no doubt that the SNP will fade away as a power in an independent Scotland, and the more traditional party models will hold forth. 

Some interesting points in here...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/euan-mccolm-snp-needs-a-long-hard-look-in-the-mirror-1-4334130

 

[RuamRudy]

17 hours ago, jpinx said:

Some interesting points in here...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/euan-mccolm-snp-needs-a-long-hard-look-in-the-mirror-1-4334130

 

 

I am all for the SNP's feet held to the fire because it helps them avoid complacency, however bear in mind that McColm is as rabidly anti-SNP as Dod Kerevan is pro.

[jpinx]

Could Scotland use the Greenland template?

"....
Greenland: no withdrawal precedent
In a referendum on 23 February 1982, Greenland decided – by 53% to 47% – to leave the then European  Communities  (EC).  However,  the  1985  'exit'  of  Greenland  from the  EC  is  legally speaking  not  a 'withdrawal'  as  Greenland  was  not  a  Member  State  of  the  EU  but  was, and remains, part  of  an  EU  Member  State,  Denmark.  This  is  why  its  'withdrawal'  from  the  EC took place in the form of a reduction of the territorial jurisdiction of the Treaties through a Treaty change ratified by all Member States.
Due to its former status as a colony and its geographical distance  from the  EU,  Greenland  became  an  'associated  overseas  territory'  (Article  204  TFEU)
with special arrangements with the EU, particularly with regard to fisheries
– it is given access to the single market for fisheries 'products in return for EU fishermen' s access to Greenland waters (Protocol 34 to the Treaties)......"

 

 

...see page 3 of this.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2016/577971/EPRS_BRI(2016)577971_EN.pdf

Substitute "Denmark" with "Scotland", and Greenland" with "England&Wales"  (and maybe N.Ireland too)

Edited January 13, 2017 by jpinx