This one left me Gobsmacked.

[dentonian]

So I'm sat in a restaurant with a friend this week and this information pops out during our conversation.

 

Circumstances: My friend has been married to a Thai lady for the last 6 years. They have a 5 year old son together, who was born in Thailand, has Thai birth certificate and named in his Mothers Tabien Baan. (He 37, she 23.) The son was also registered as a British citizen. He had both Thai and UK passports.

My friend is self employed in the UK, spends 7 months working, then 5 months in Thailand on a Non Imm O ME Visa.

They always obtain a UK Visitor Visa for his wife who returns with him, spends 6 months in the UK, then returns with son a month before his arrival in Thailand again.

 

Situation: 3 years ago when his wife was returning from the UK, unsure she offered both of her sons passports to Thai Immigration.

The IO screwed up and confiscated her sons Thai passport and gave her son a 30 day Visa exempt stamp in his UK passport.

A month later my friend returns (unaware), then after 90 days takes the family to the Lao border to exit/ re-enter for his next 90 day permission to stay.

 

The proverbial shit now hits the fan and he discovers what happened at Suvarnabhumi airport 4 months earlier.

His son is fined 20,000 baht overstay at the border.........seriously!

They are told they should visit their local provincial Immigration office to sort it out on their return home, which they do.

They issue an extension (1,900 baht) and a re-entry permit (1,000 baht).

Repeated last year and the year before.

 

The son is a Thai citizen, but being treated as a British citizen and being denied dual nationality.

Anyone else encounter such a bizarre situation.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2016 by dentonian

[lopburi3]

I find that account hard to believe as there is no overstay fine of anyone below the age of 14 regardless of nationality. 

[glegolo]

Unless they were scammed for a nice 2nd time,

at that boarder-crossing.

This is Thailand you know...

 

Glegolo

[dentonian]

32 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

I find that account hard to believe as there is no overstay fine of anyone below the age of 14 regardless of nationality. 

 

I'm fully aware of that fact, (I thought it was under 15) but neither my friend or his wife was.

They did receive a receipt.

Edited December 26, 2016 by dentonian

[ubonjoe]

40 minutes ago, dentonian said:

The IO screwed up and confiscated her sons Thai passport and gave her son a 30 day Visa exempt stamp in his UK passport.

I highly doubt that part of your post. Immigration has no legal authority to do that.

Refusing to allow an entry using the Thai passport on entry and using the non Thai passport does happen.  They also have no authority to do that. It has to be taken to higher lever by asking for a supervisor.

[dentonian]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I highly doubt that part of your post. Immigration has no legal authority to do that.

Refusing to allow an entry using the Thai passport on entry and using the non Thai passport does happen.  They also have no authority to do that. It has to be taken to higher lever by asking for a supervisor.

 

This whole situation requires correcting before it goes any further.

Unfortunately my friend and his wife have no knowledge of the rules and just followed what they were told.

Panic sets in when your told your Thai/English son is overstaying.

 

The IO at the airport gave no reason for confiscating and destroying their sons passport.

The IO at Lao border who charged the 20,000 overstay did issue a receipt, but it should never have happened.

 

I've seen the 30 day Visa exempt stamp in his sons passport Joe, and the receipt for 20,000 baht.

I've told him I'll go with him to the Immigration office next week to try and sort the situation out, but he's worried it will cause trouble and affect his sons permission to stay.

 

Edited December 26, 2016 by dentonian

[dentonian]

I've also told him to apply for a new Thai passport for his son in Khon Kaen.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

18 minutes ago, dentonian said:

I've also told him to apply for a new Thai passport for his son in Khon Kaen.

 

 

The need to do police report for a lost passport and apply for a new one. Info is here in Thai: http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services

[LivinLOS]

So many things dont add up.. I am not one to jump on to the bandwagon but I would be highly suspicious of the the 'removed passport' story.. 

 

Is there any way this could be done to cover up travel dates ?? 

 

Too many separate elements all seem to be suspicious. 

[dentonian]

23 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

So many things dont add up.. I am not one to jump on to the bandwagon but I would be highly suspicious of the the 'removed passport' story.. 

 

Is there any way this could be done to cover up travel dates ?? 

 

Too many separate elements all seem to be suspicious. 

 

What doesn't add up?

 

Child had two passports, two nationalities.

Immigration wrongly confiscated his Thai passport. Maybe the IO didn't approve him having dual nationality...who knows!

They stamp his UK passport for 30 days.

Later at a border crossing an IO fines him for overstay.........although legally he is a minor and cannot be fined...but was!

 

Since then local Immigration have been issuing him annual extension in his British passport and he has to comply with the 90 day reporting.

 

It's very easy to say they should have done this or that, but when your naïve about Immigration issues, you'll believe what they tell you, without challenging.........especially a Thai woman. They don't like confrontation.

As UJ said the Mother should have challenged the IO at the airport and asked to speak to a higher authority, but TIT!

 

I hoping to convince them to visit Immigration next week, along with the sons birth certificate and the Mothers Tabien Baan on which the son is included to try and rectify his Immigration status.

[lemonjelly]

Or maybe the missus has lost the kids passport and spun a silly story..... or maybe it's all fiction and she just squeezed 20,000 baht out of a naive guy.... 23 year old girls do these kind of things. 

[dentonian]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

The need to do police report for a lost passport and apply for a new one. Info is here in Thai: http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services

Thanks Joe.

 

It wasn't actually lost or stolen and it was 3 years ago.

Would you tell the truth or make up a porky to cover their naivety.

[dentonian]

2 minutes ago, lemonjelly said:

Or maybe the missus has lost the kids passport and spun a silly story..... or maybe it's all fiction and she just squeezed 20,000 baht out of a naive guy.... 23 year old girls do these kind of things. 

 

They were together as a family unit at a Lao border when Immigration imposed the fine.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, dentonian said:

Thanks Joe.

 

It wasn't actually lost or stolen and it was 3 years ago.

Would you tell the truth or make up a porky to cover their naivety.

It would not matter how long ago it was lost. Would it of still been valid?

In a away it was lost. I don't think the police ask a lot of question when the report is done.

[lemonjelly]

2 minutes ago, dentonian said:

 

They were together as a family unit at a Lao border when Immigration imposed the fine.

Sorry for my scepticism, guess I've become a bit jaded over the years haha, still find the story about IO confiscating a passport as truly bizarre though..... that's very serious and could land the IO in hot water no?

[LivinLOS]

25 minutes ago, dentonian said:

 

What doesn't add up?

 

Child had two passports, two nationalities.

Immigration wrongly confiscated his Thai passport. Maybe the IO didn't approve him having dual nationality...who knows!

 

That for a start... Immigration officers know they are not permitted to confiscate and destroy passports.. 

 

So step one doesnt add up.. And its only her word that it should.. 

[dentonian]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

It would not matter how long ago it was lost. Would it of still been valid?

In a away it was lost. I don't think the police ask a lot of question when the report is done.

 

It was valid for 5 years, so it could well have expired by now.

 

It would be difficult to explain to Immigration how it came to be that the son was fined for overstay, extensions and 90 day reports, in his UK passport if they/she had just lost the Thai passport.

[A1Str8]

I would like to see the immigration dude who has the balls to confiscate a passport and destroy it for no reason. 

I don't think that part has ever happened. I would bet money on it, that the wife made it up. 

[Get Real]

Just to much shit in this post. 

Passport lost. Report and get a new one.

There is also another issue, and that is according to law Thailand does not recocnise two nationalities, but that shall regard children over 12 years of age.

[dentonian]

4 minutes ago, A1Str8 said:

I would like to see the immigration dude who has the balls to confiscate a passport and destroy it for no reason. 

I don't think that part has ever happened. I would bet money on it, that the wife made it up. 

 

10 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Just to much shit in this post. 

Passport lost. Report and get a new one.

There is also another issue, and that is according to law Thailand does not recocnise two nationalities, but that shall regard children over 12 years of age.

 

Getting a new Thai passport is the least of their problems.

 

Think about it!

Mother boards a flight in the UK with her son.

They wouldn't have been allowed to board without their Thai passports.

 

Even if lost in flight Immigration could have checked his nationality on the Thai Civilian Register database, or even simpler, check with the airline what passport was used to board.

 

His wife could be lying. She may have lost his Thai passport at a later date, but that wouldn't explain why he received a 30 day visa exempt stamp in his British passport would it.

 

 

[dentonian]

42 minutes ago, Get Real said:

There is also another issue, and that is according to law Thailand does not recocnise two nationalities, but that shall regard children over 12 years of age.

 

Actually chapter 2, section 14 of the Thai Nationality Act states;

Section 14.18 A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father or mother and has acquired the nationality of his father or mother according to law on nationality of his father or mother, or a person who acquires Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two or Section 12/1 (2) and (3) may, if he desires to retain his other nationality, make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years, according to such form and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations

 

Which law are you referring to?

[IMA_FARANG]

IF someone emters Thailand on a U.K. passport they will be considered as a  U.K. citizen.

They will need a visa as does any U. K. citizen.

if they try to apply for a legal extension on their U.K. passport they will have to pay the normal 1900 Baht fee if given an extension on their U.K. passport.

It is true that Minors (lesss than 14 years) do not have to pay ovestay fees.

But they ar still subjet to the same visa and entrance rules if they use a U. K. passport

Anyone that enters Thailand with a non-Thai passport will be considered as a citizen of that countries passport an be subject to the same visa and entrance requirements.

That is why dual citizens with Thai passports should notmally enter Tailand on their Thai passport.

Thai citizens.do not need Thai visas to enter Thailand.

That is why people with Thai passports should normally use their Thai passport to enter Thailand.

[IMA_FARANG]

The following aoolies to Thai MALES because they are eligable for possible Thai military service and a dual citizen may renounce is Thai citizenship for that reason.

Some Thai males make this choice when they reach that age.

There is no equivalent requiement for military service for thai females.

 

 

Quote

if he desires to retain his other nationality, make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years,

 

[sumrit]

7 hours ago, dentonian said:

 

 

Getting a new Thai passport is the least of their problems.

 

Think about it!

Mother boards a flight in the UK with her son.

They wouldn't have been allowed to board without their Thai passports.

 

Even if lost in flight Immigration could have checked his nationality on the Thai Civilian Register database, or even simpler, check with the airline what passport was used to board.

 

His wife could be lying. She may have lost his Thai passport at a later date, but that wouldn't explain why he received a 30 day visa exempt stamp in his British passport would it.

 

 

 

Of course the son could board in the UK. He is a UK citizen with a UK passport. Why would he need his Thai passport to board a plane in the UK?

 

Sounds more likely that the mother didn't take the Thai passport with her so the son simply entered Thailand on the UK passport without realizing the complications it could create. The parents have probably since found out that, although of dual nationality, the son is considered to be a British citizen on Immigration's database in Thailand so he would have to leave Thailand on the UK passport then re-enter on a new Thai passport to correct it.

[Get Real]

7 hours ago, dentonian said:

 

Actually chapter 2, section 14 of the Thai Nationality Act states;

Section 14.18 A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father or mother and has acquired the nationality of his father or mother according to law on nationality of his father or mother, or a person who acquires Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two or Section 12/1 (2) and (3) may, if he desires to retain his other nationality, make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years, according to such form and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations

 

Which law are you referring to?

Sorry! I stand corrected. Must have been mixing something up. You know: Christmas + Close to New Year + A lot of booze + a farang in Isaan = A monster looking like a civilian that know and understand nothing!

[dentonian]

Lots of possibilities of how his Thai passport went missing.

I only have the Mothers account and it's possible she is hiding her own carelessness.

 

The fact remains that they need to sort this matter out, sooner rather than later.

I know they don't realise that at age 20 the son is no longer regarded as being a dependant and he would be forced to leave Thailand.

The Father plans to retire at 40 and make a permanent move here.

They could be separated as a family in later years if it's not resolved.

[dentonian]

1 hour ago, sumrit said:

 

The parents have probably since found out that, although of dual nationality, the son is considered to be a British citizen on Immigration's database in Thailand so he would have to leave Thailand on the UK passport then re-enter on a new Thai passport to correct it.

 

Very good suggestion, that would be a quick fix to their problem.

[BritTim]

Taking the OP at face value, presumably the full story is as follows:

• Three years ago, the Thai passport was either lost or illegally confiscated by an immigration official.
• In the time since, the son has been entering and exiting Thailand on visa exempt entries, presumably with both parents being aware the son was on overstay each time. There was no fine for the overstay until the most recent exit.
• It does not seem to have occurred to them, over the last three years, that getting a replacement Thai passport would be a good idea.

I am not ruling out this being the complete story. Truth sometimes really is stranger than fiction. However, this is a really weird tale.

[dentonian]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

Taking the OP at face value, presumably the full story is as follows:

• Three years ago, the Thai passport was either lost or illegally confiscated by an immigration official.
• In the time since, the son has been entering and exiting Thailand on visa exempt entries, presumably with both parents being aware the son was on overstay each time. There was no fine for the overstay until the most recent exit.
• It does not seem to have occurred to them, over the last three years, that getting a replacement Thai passport would be a good idea.

I am not ruling out this being the complete story. Truth sometimes really is stranger than fiction. However, this is a really weird tale.

 

• Correct.
• No. The fine for overstay occurred 4 months after entry 3 years ago when the son was aged 2. Since then, for the last 3 years the son has been issued extensions with a re-entry permit and doing 90 day reports.
• Neither the Mother or his foreign Father have challenged Immigration about the nationality of their son. The Mother was told cannot have two passports of different nationality, which according to her was why the IO confiscated the sons Thai passport and gave him a 30 day visa exempt stamp in his UK passport. (And why she never applied for another Thai passport for her son)
• If true, it would appear the IO (on the question of dual nationality) felt he wasn't empowered to confiscate the UK passport,  but was empowered to confiscated the Thai passport.
• The Mother is adamant she did not lose the Thai passport. She explains quite vividly how the IO opened the passport, then folded it in half across the pages, damaging it, then refused to return it.

On the question of dual nationality, I do know a young Thai lady (British father, Thai mother) who visits her grandparent each year in the UK, who last year at age 19 was told by an IO at the airport that next year she must choose between the nationalities.

My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that although Thailand does not official recognise dual nationality, minors up to 20 years old are not affected and even after reaching adulthood at 20, non dual nationality is rarely enforced.

Edited December 27, 2016 by dentonian

[dentonian]

Update:

 

The Mother and her son re-entered Thailand on 24th May 2014 (coup) and the passport was not confiscated by an official IO, but by a Military office who was checking passports.