Obama expels 35 Russian diplomats, accuses Russia of meddling in election

[Ulysses G.]

23 hours ago, iReason said:

US Official Says Russia Undoubtedly Meddled in US Election

 

"In a joint report that roiled the presidential campaign last fall, the Homeland Security Department and the intelligence community said

the U.S. was confident of foreign meddling, including Russian government hacking of Democratic emails."

 

"In its assessment, the intelligence community has said Moscow interfered to help Republican Donald Trump win."

 

"We stand actually more resolutely on the strength of that statement than we did on the 7th of October,"

James Clapper, the director of national intelligence, told the GOP-led Senate Armed Services Committee"

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/top-us-intelligence-officials-testify-russian-hacking-44567436

 

End of story.

 

Hardly the end of the story - you seem to have ignored a few things in the article:

 

"He [James Clapper] declined to discuss whether Russia's interference was aimed at helping Trump win."

 

"Did Russian hacking sway the results? There's no way for U.S. agencies to know, said James Clapper, the director of national intelligence.

Asked about the possible effect of the disclosure of private information stolen by hackers, Clapper said, "The intelligence community can't gauge the impact it had on the choices the electorate made." But he did say Russian hacking "did not change any vote tallies.""

 

[iReason]

Just now, Ulysses G. said:

"He [James Clapper] declined to discuss whether Russia's interference was aimed at helping Trump win."

 

"Did Russian hacking sway the results? There's no way for U.S. agencies to know, said James Clapper, the director of national intelligence.

Asked about the possible effect of the disclosure of private information stolen by hackers, Clapper said, "

The intelligence community can't gauge the impact it had on the choices the electorate made."

But he did say Russian hacking "did not change any vote tallies.""

 

Finally agreeing that the Russians were involved? 

 

And then there is this:

 

"According to CNN, the Washington Post and NBC News citing intelligence sources, agencies had intercepted communications in the aftermath of the election showing senior Russian government officials celebrating Donald Trump's win over rival Hillary Clinton."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38528329

 

"The Russian practice of planting “fake news” was an election-year propaganda tactic that remains in use, Mr. Clapper said."

 

"Asked by Mr. McCain whether hacking the American elections would be an attack on the United States, Mr. Clapper demurred."

 

"But he called it a matter of “great gravity.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/05/us/politics/armed-services-committee-john-mccain-russia-hacking.html?_r=0

[Ulysses G.]

"Finally agreeing that the Russians were involved?"

 

Never denied it. However, no evidence that they threw the election for Trump.

 

[iReason]

Intel chiefs: We're certain that Russia tried to influence U.S. election

 

"WASHINGTON — Top U.S. intelligence officials told senators Thursday that they are confident in their assessment that Russia attempted to use cyberattacks to influence the U.S. presidential election, despite skepticism of their findings by  President-elect Donald Trump."

 

"Clapper said the intelligence community will release a public report next week detailing Russia's attempt 

to influence the U.S. presidential election by hacking Democrat Hillary Clinton's campaign and other political groups."

 

"The CIA and FBI have agreed that the interference was aimed at helping Trump beat Clinton."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/washington/2017/01/05/russian-cyberattacks-draw-senate-hearing/96191380/

[Ulysses G.]

2 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

 

"Did Russian hacking sway the results? There's no way for U.S. agencies to know, said James Clapper, the director of national intelligence.

Asked about the possible effect of the disclosure of private information stolen by hackers, Clapper said, "The intelligence community can't gauge the impact it had on the choices the electorate made." But he did say Russian hacking "did not change any vote tallies.""

 

 

The operative word is "tried". No evidence that they succeeded.

[iReason]

Intel Report: Putin directly ordered effort to influence election

 

"The US intelligence community concluded in a declassified report released Friday that Russian President Vladimir Putin

ordered an "influence campaign" aimed at hurting Hillary Clinton and helping Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election."

 

"The report stated that the campaign blended cyberhacking intelligence operations with overt propaganda efforts carried out by state-owned media outlets and paid social media users."

 

"Russia's goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump," the report said."

 

See the full report here:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/06/politics/intelligence-report-putin-election/index.html

[craigt3365]

6 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

"Finally agreeing that the Russians were involved?"

 

Never denied it. However, no evidence that they threw the election for Trump.

 

And no evidence they didn't.

[Ulysses G.]

9 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

And no evidence they didn't.

 

Correct, so any speculation either way is nothing but a guess.

[craigt3365]

Just now, Ulysses G. said:

 

Correct, so any speculation either way is nothing but a guess.

Right now, it's a highly educated guess, with intelligence to back it, that Russia did try to influence the elections.  Otherwise, why release the data just before the vote?  Why not release it now?  Hmmm.....Just can't prove it for sure it a court of law.  As they say, if it walks like a duck....

[Ulysses G.]

I do not object to speculating that they tried to influence the election, just very much doubt that there will ever be a way to tell if they were successful at getting anyone in particular elected. James Clapper seems to feel the same.

[deathmule]

2 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Right now, it's a highly educated guess, with intelligence to back it, that Russia did try to influence the elections.  Otherwise, why release the data just before the vote?  Why not release it now?  Hmmm.....Just can't prove it for sure it a court of law.  As they say, if it walks like a duck....

 

Because they didn't want a thermonuclear war with the US.

 

Hillary meant either a thermonuclear war with Russia or Russia caving on every unfair sanctions Hillary would come up with.

 

Trump meant peace and restoration of diplomatic ties.

 

It is obvious what they want. 

 

It is so funny to see Americans/the world underestimate America so much that they think they can be controlled by the Russians without Russians having leverage, just like that 

[craigt3365]

28 minutes ago, deathmule said:

 

Because they didn't want a thermonuclear war with the US.

 

Hillary meant either a thermonuclear war with Russia or Russia caving on every unfair sanctions Hillary would come up with.

 

Trump meant peace and restoration of diplomatic ties.

 

It is obvious what they want. 

 

It is so funny to see Americans/the world underestimate America so much that they think they can be controlled by the Russians without Russians having leverage, just like that 

So if Hillary was elected there would have been a nuclear war?  Really? Sorry, but that's the last thing the US wants.  Absolutely the last thing.

 

Russia has sanctions because of their aggressive actions.  Sanctions supported by MANY countries around the world.  Probably yours also.

 

Trump could careless about anything other than himself.  That's been proven.  And impossible to believe anything he says now.  He's broken too many promises.

[Opl]

15 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

"Finally agreeing that the Russians were involved?"

 

Never denied it. However, no evidence that they threw the election for Trump.

 

Everyone spies on everyone,  but disseminating informations gathered on a single candidate in the middle of US presidential campaign is russian interference in 2016 Election.

The russians hacked RNC emails as well but did not release them.

There is no need of proof. Just take in considérations th effects on National security.  

Trump's admiration for Putin, and all his multiple possible conflicts of interests  should raise at least  some questions - if no doubts-  or concerns - among his supporters.

 

[Silurian]

While Comrade Donald denies, lies and spins, the truth keeps coming out about how the Russian's manipulated the US election. Makes him more and more illegitimate day by day.

 

Putin Ordered ‘Influence Campaign’ Aimed at U.S. Election, Report Says

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/06/us/politics/russia-hack-report.html?

 

[Silurian]

And boom! There it is!

 

"It is one thing to say that there was no tampering with vote tallying - which is true - it is another thing to say that the daily dumping of documents disparaging to ... Clinton that was made possible by Russian cyber operations had no effect on the campaigns," he said. "The consequence of these disclosures was hugely beneficial to the President-Elect and damaging to the Clinton campaign, just as the Russians intended."

 

U.S. intel report: Putin directed cyber campaign to help Trump

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-cyber-idUSKBN14Q1T8?

[craigt3365]

This opinion piece sums it up nicely:

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/06/opinions/intelligence-report-putin-helped-trump-win-ghitis/index.html

 

Quote

Huh? Clearly, Trump misses the point. This is not about him; it is about protecting the country he has been elected to govern from an active and deliberate threat.

 

[Silurian]

24 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

This opinion piece sums it up nicely:

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/06/opinions/intelligence-report-putin-helped-trump-win-ghitis/index.html

 

 

 

My favorite part of that piece is as follows:

 

Quote

Putin made a big push to help Trump win. He deployed his "news" agencies, RT and Sputnik, along with a vast social media machine to promote false accusations that Clinton was corrupt, ill, mentally unstable and linked to Islamist groups.

As it happens, Trump did the same, promoting precisely that unfounded description of his rival, all the way to electoral victory.

 

How interesting that both Putin and Comrade Donald had exactly the same strategy. I am sure there was no collusion, right?

 

[Ulysses G.]

4 hours ago, Opl said:

Everyone spies on everyone,  but disseminating informations gathered on a single candidate in the middle of US presidential campaign is russian interference in 2016 Election.

 

 

Apparently, it was ACCURATE information and nothing comparable was found about the Republicans. On top of that, the MSM and democratic party disseminated a lot more dishonest news about Donald Trump than the Russians did about his competition. Of course, that is politics as usual in USA, so not so much outrage from the left about that.

[Opl]

33 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Apparently, it was ACCURATE information and nothing comparable was found about the Republicans. On top of that, the MSM and democratic party disseminated a lot more dishonest news about Donald Trump than the Russians did about his competition. Of course, that is politics as usual in USA, so not so much outrage from the left about that.

 

Putin is a former KGB agent, so he manipulates. For him,  public opinion is not to be surveyed through opinion polls. People must be maneuvered, directed to obey and fullfill his aims. . So does he operate in Europe,  in the USA, wherever his interests are..

He plays chess. And as he is intelligent, the opponents do not see anything coming or  too late.

[iReason]

Just now, Ulysses G. said:

On top of that, the MSM and democratic party disseminated a lot more dishonest news about Donald Trump than the Russians did about his competition.

 

Pease list some examples from the "MSM".

 

Or are you just spreading disinformation?

Again.

[craigt3365]

8 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Apparently, it was ACCURATE information and nothing comparable was found about the Republicans. On top of that, the MSM and democratic party disseminated a lot more dishonest news about Donald Trump than the Russians did about his competition. Of course, that is politics as usual in USA, so not so much outrage from the left about that.

You don't know what was found about the Republicans because they never released that info.  You comment that the dems disseminated more dishonest news than the Russians did is 100% incorrect.  And you know that.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/06/politics/intelligence-report-putin-election/index.html

 

Quote

 

Intel report: Putin directly ordered effort to influence election

The propaganda efforts included Russian state-owned media outlets like Russia Today and Sputnik casting Trump as "the target of unfair coverage from traditional US media outlets" as well as Russian propaganda officials casting Trump during the campaign as a victim of the US political establishment.

 

Meanwhile, the intelligence community noted that "RT's coverage of Secretary Clinton ... was consistently negative and focused on her leaked emails and accused her of corruption, poor physical and mental health, and ties to Islamic extremism."

 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/07/politics/intelligence-report-russian-interference/index.html

 

Quote

 

5. Paid social media trolls

"Moscow's influence campaign followed a Russian messaging strategy that blends covert intelligence operations -- such as cyberactivity -- with overt efforts by Russian government agencies, state-funded media, third-party intermediaries and paid social media users or 'trolls.'"

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

1 hour ago, iReason said:

 

Pease list some examples from the "MSM".

 

 

 

Have done so numerous times already - when on topic. So have loads of other posters.

[Ulysses G.]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

You don't know what was found about the Republicans because they never released that info.  You comment that the dems disseminated more dishonest news than the Russians did is 100% incorrect.  And you know that.

 

 

 

 

Wrong. The MSM and democratic party ALWAYS demonize the Republican presidential candidate with lies, distortion and spin - don't forget what they did to moderate candidates like John McCain and Mitt Romney. . This year was worse than ever.

 

Some Republicans were hacked. The messages stolen from Republicans have drawn little attention because most are routine business emails from local Republican Party officials in several states, congressional staff members and party activists. Nothing too exciting.

[Scott]

This topic is about the expulsion of 35 Russian Diplomats.   Continued nonsensical posting about politics will get you a suspension.    The next use of words like ALWAYS, NEVER and other inflammatory statements will have to be backed up by a link or you will earn a suspension.  

 

You may not tire of your nonsense, bickering and derailing of every topic, but I do.  

 

You have been warned.  

[iReason]

Just now, Ulysses G. said:

Have done so numerous times already - when on topic.

 

You brought it up.

As if it were fact.

 

Back it up with some specific details.

 

Especially, the on topic: "lot more...than the Russians" nonsense.

 

You can't.

You just make stuff up.

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Some Republicans were hacked. The messages stolen from Republicans have drawn little attention because most are routine business emails from local Republican Party officials in several states, congressional staff members and party activists. Nothing too exciting.

How on earth can you feel even remotely qualified to say that? What you are saying is complete fabrication.You are making it up. I sense a severe case of Trumpism.

 

I guess the 5 million plus emails illegally deleted from White House servers after 9/11 and the republican phase of GW2 were all illegally deleted because they were routine 'business emails'. 

 

In Trumps statement after his intelligence brief he so graciously decided to attend on Friday he still thinks this is about himself. He still has not realised that this is about the very security of the US. Do people actually realise that despite the huge military and arsenal of weapons the USA possess, the entire country could be brought to its knees without a single shot being fired by a country that develops it's cyber warfare capability to the highest levels. This incident is a shot across the bow for the US and people need to start taking it very seriously. I think Obama would really have liked to leave quietly and take up retirement, but he has displayed himself as having kuhoona's the size of Jupiter by taking the steps against Russia so close to the end of his Presidency. His actions have not been a knee jerk reaction and I guarantee 100% he has not taken these steps without him and his administration considering 100% the potential consequences. The type of 'thinking' Trump needs to learn PDQ.

[Ulysses G.]

1 hour ago, iReason said:

 

You brought it up.

As if it were fact.

 

Back it up with some specific details.

 

Especially, the on topic: "lot more...than the Russians" nonsense.

 

You can't.

You just make stuff up.

 

See the post from the moderator above yours. It applies to everyone.

[Scott]

16 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

See the post from the moderator above yours. It applies to everyone.

Yes, and you are a part of that everyone.  

 

It's a discussion forum, it is not an endless argument forum.  

 

Stay on topic or face a suspension. 

[Ace of Pop]

Don't post anything similar to BBC Hardtalk program the truth can offend a Few here


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, Ace of Pop said:

Don't post anything similar to BBC Hardtalk program the truth can offend a Few here


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

What was the program about?  What truth would offend a few here?